Frozenprince
Banned
I still think the new maps will just be a rotation with the one now. No way they do matchmaking for each map separate.
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PLAYERUNKNOWNS BATTLEGROUNDS Early Access Thread: This Is Battle Royale
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
- Start date
Vigilant Walrus
Member
First vs Third person is becoming more and more of an entrenched debate in many games. Star Citizen, Battlefront, Battlefield, Division- You got a lot of players with strong preferences either way who want a certain perspective.
In Star Citizen, they are allowing a third person in combat, but they are disabling the hud and cursor in third person, and the positioning is such that it seems like it will not be strategically advantageous to third person around corners.
In Division you got people who wish it was first person, in Battlefield 1 that there was a third person perspective (like Star Wars Battlefront).
I feel very strongly that third person makes a lot of these games more interesting. The fact that Destiny 2 has some form of third person is why I have any interest in it at all, and at the same time, is why I've never wanted to play Borderlands 2. It's a HUGE deal to me, so I am grinding teeth when I hear people who say that third person is akin to cheating or cheap.
At the same time, I don't understand why more developers are not embracing over the shoulder cameras. AFAIK you cannot really look through walls with something like gears of war because the camera is very tight when you use the iron sight/zoom mode?
Those things are not related. One of the core components of the gameplay is customization. Creating a fragmented community is not the same argument at all.
Nor is allowing players "to play a certain way" always a good thing. Plenty of games become worse by being worn down by bad gameplay options, modes and ways of play.
My opposition is not to you not having something you'd want to enjoy. But I'd hate it if it ended up with a situation where 50% of the servers where FPS only.
Saying something is cheap is not a real argument. What, how and why is it cheap? It's a legit strategy available to all. And of course you risk something. Your aim is significantly worse in third person. Trying to use third person when rushing corners or around edges give you a significant disadvantage against someone rushing you in first person.
The entire skill aspect is that it's neither third or first person that is better. What is best is to known when and how to use each perspective and that is what gives the gameplay a tactical element.
To say it's not tactical, but cheap is not far removed from saying that looking at a radar is cheap or looking through a iron sight or sniper scope is cheap. That is not a real argument, and people who generally complain with that are just saying it's cheap as a dogwhistle because they don't want to deal with it.
In every game I can, I adhoc switch between first and third person. I like navigating the world and seeing effects and animations of movement around my character. I hate running, jumping, leaning and doing spartial movements in first person, but I like switching to first person when I want to aim, crawl/prone, go into cover and other specific combinations.
To me, being able to change regardless of I'm playing Jedi Knight, or Skyrim or ARMA or whatever, is that having the freedom to choose is what makes the game a lot more interesting.
In Star Citizen, they are allowing a third person in combat, but they are disabling the hud and cursor in third person, and the positioning is such that it seems like it will not be strategically advantageous to third person around corners.
In Division you got people who wish it was first person, in Battlefield 1 that there was a third person perspective (like Star Wars Battlefront).
I feel very strongly that third person makes a lot of these games more interesting. The fact that Destiny 2 has some form of third person is why I have any interest in it at all, and at the same time, is why I've never wanted to play Borderlands 2. It's a HUGE deal to me, so I am grinding teeth when I hear people who say that third person is akin to cheating or cheap.
At the same time, I don't understand why more developers are not embracing over the shoulder cameras. AFAIK you cannot really look through walls with something like gears of war because the camera is very tight when you use the iron sight/zoom mode?
Those things are not related. One of the core components of the gameplay is customization. Creating a fragmented community is not the same argument at all.
Nor is allowing players "to play a certain way" always a good thing. Plenty of games become worse by being worn down by bad gameplay options, modes and ways of play.
My opposition is not to you not having something you'd want to enjoy. But I'd hate it if it ended up with a situation where 50% of the servers where FPS only.
Saying something is cheap is not a real argument. What, how and why is it cheap? It's a legit strategy available to all. And of course you risk something. Your aim is significantly worse in third person. Trying to use third person when rushing corners or around edges give you a significant disadvantage against someone rushing you in first person.
The entire skill aspect is that it's neither third or first person that is better. What is best is to known when and how to use each perspective and that is what gives the gameplay a tactical element.
To say it's not tactical, but cheap is not far removed from saying that looking at a radar is cheap or looking through a iron sight or sniper scope is cheap. That is not a real argument, and people who generally complain with that are just saying it's cheap as a dogwhistle because they don't want to deal with it.
In every game I can, I adhoc switch between first and third person. I like navigating the world and seeing effects and animations of movement around my character. I hate running, jumping, leaning and doing spartial movements in first person, but I like switching to first person when I want to aim, crawl/prone, go into cover and other specific combinations.
To me, being able to change regardless of I'm playing Jedi Knight, or Skyrim or ARMA or whatever, is that having the freedom to choose is what makes the game a lot more interesting.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
I agree 100%. The community doesn't need to be split over something so trivial. You want to play in first person then do it but don't drag all of us there with you.
That'd be the best case scenario for matchmaking. But I think it'll depend on how drastically different the maps are.
Like if for example there's a super small map that not everyone likes and they just all kill themselves to get to the next one.
n0razi
Member
Yup, everytime I get to top 3 its some lame reason like everyone else ignores me and kills each other. Everytime I get an amazing loadout (maxed out 416, VSS, maxed out armor, 5x med kits, etc) I die within minutes from some random guy with an SKS from a mile away.
You are missing the point. Saying "If you want to play first person just do it" is not a valid argument here because it puts you at a significant disadvantage when everyone else is using third person to look around obstacles and you aren't.
Since when did multiple modes become a bad thing? You could make the same argument by your logic for any game with more than one game mode. Dota with custom games and ability draft? Call of Duty with deathwatch and objective games? Arma with it's smorgasbord of ways to play? Ark having both a survival game and battle royale type game?
WilsonX100
Member
Have been playing the game perfectly for the last few months since i bought it. I even played for a couple hours last night, but upon trying to start it today, it continuously crashes the steam client and when i reopen steam it claims the app is running (title is in green).
In task manager, it is open under Background Processes and then closes.
I have restarted my computer, steam, reinstalled the game, and verified the game files. Any idea what else to do?
please help
In task manager, it is open under Background Processes and then closes.
I have restarted my computer, steam, reinstalled the game, and verified the game files. Any idea what else to do?
please help
jediyoshi
Member
Wait a second, when you do it, why do you get to put the effect you're presupposing in the front, and then when I do it, you get to use the word customization? Are fragmenting the community and customizing the play experience mutually exclusive?
So to clarify, you're saying it'd be a net benefit of the game and in everyone's best interests if there wasn't any modding or custom games whatsoever right? Because it's all feeding into the same player base?
Err, in which case you don't agree whatsoever and you're proposing another situation counter to what the poster you're quoting is saying.
Now apparently. When I tried to choose from that list it said 'international market' over the 7 countries, so I just proceeded normally and tried to activate it. Didn't work sadly - it didn't even tell me what went wrong but oh well.
I just tried and it worked for me. I already have Amazon Prime Video though.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Hey guys! Its a lot easier to hit guys at range when you have a 4x scope!
I feel like I just rarely ever get any scopes for ARs or sniper rifles so I always hate it when I can spot guys plenty at range but with just a red dot or holo attachment, I have terrible luck actually hitting anyone. Lo and behold I was just playing and got a M16 with a 4x scope and suppressor and was destroying a couple guys from at range! It was such a nice change of pace!
That, and I nailed a couple guys up close with a shotgun in close quarters. Shotguns seem so great at knocking guys out in one hit that I think I'm just going to start keeping one on me anytime I'm getting into a city or looting buildings. Super effective.
I feel like I just rarely ever get any scopes for ARs or sniper rifles so I always hate it when I can spot guys plenty at range but with just a red dot or holo attachment, I have terrible luck actually hitting anyone. Lo and behold I was just playing and got a M16 with a 4x scope and suppressor and was destroying a couple guys from at range! It was such a nice change of pace!
That, and I nailed a couple guys up close with a shotgun in close quarters. Shotguns seem so great at knocking guys out in one hit that I think I'm just going to start keeping one on me anytime I'm getting into a city or looting buildings. Super effective.
| Praxis |
Banned
I haven't played for a while because I'm waiting for first person only servers before I jump back in for regular sessions.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
If customizing the way your character looks is a core feature of the game like in this game, or GTA5 or Destiny, I'd argue that takes levy over making a feature of play that could fragment the community. If somebody doesn't want to enjoy the customization or use it, that doesn't come at the expense of anybody else. If you don't give a fcuk about the visual customization or looking at your character, you can ignore that aspect.
If 50% of the servers are now unplayable in terms of your core reason for enjoying the game- A staple which has persisted across many of these types of games going back to Operation Flashpoint and its contemp inspirations, you're essentially halfing the amount available servers and in theory, the lifespan you have with the game. I had to stop prematurely playing COD and BF because the community was fragmented over some truly stupid modes and rulesets.
I'm saying that if it was just a niche mode as someone else suggested, then I wouldn't see it as a threat the premature death of the game I like to play, but I'm afraid it would spread like wildfire, as every game I see it's a 50/50. If there is an option for both I feel there is a compromise. If you force one view, you risk opening up pandoras box and shitting over the community.
Then I'd rather they do something about looking through doors or whatever, but even that seems like a arbitary obstruction. There are so many things that give greater advantages. Might as well ban people with ultrawide monitors or put a fps limit or network cap to make the game "more fair" or less cheap. Those things have a far bigger impact on a ingame advantage than people choosing third person ever will. All of those reasons are stupid. as is removing third person from a game that was designed with 1/3 perspective in mind.
No, that's not what I am saying. But good games have been wrought down by having shitter modes and methods of play that detracted from the best modes. Choice is good, but only when its good.
I am saying that if you want to argue for the inclusion it should be supported by some compelling arguments through design and gameplay rationale. Right now the arguments have the velocity of saying that people who pick the sniper are cheap or people who look at the radar are cheating.
As far as I can tell, this game was designed with third/first person in mind. The gameplay is based around it, and so if you want to argue that the game is worse because of third person, proper argumentation is needed besides personal preference.
I wish Overwatch was third person, but I know it's foolish to argue or hope for it, because the game was clearly designed with first person in mind. The core moment to moment gameplay, the maps- It wouldn't give what I would want out of it, so I just accept that that game is not something I am going to play.
The argument presented here is exactly the same argument that is represented every single time there is a third person perspective. I see similar requests for Battlefront, Destiny, Arma, DayZ, H171, Basically every game I can think that has a hybrid choice.
I'd never support removing first person either, even if its first person perspective users who dominate the third person perspective users(which they are).
jediyoshi
Member
Who are you to say what the game was designed with in mind? They've literally already said it was on their road map / they already give the option in custom games. I'm not sure why you keep pretending to care about the gameplay implications when you are explicitly saying the crux of your reasoning lies on something completely besides the mechanics; the playerbase split. I'm not sure why you're shying away from stating that you want the entire removal of custom games altogether, you should be doubling down on wanting less options for players, otherwise you're dancing around your point. I'm not sure what actual case studies you can cite where the addition of modding and player choice was a detriment to the core audience, but I'm happy to hear them.
If the game was designed around first person, wouldn't have the release been in first person?
Not only that,but it would seem weird to design this game as a 1st person shooter first and foremost but have it relegated to a secondary view + clear disadvantages at launch.
I agree on the modding and player choice part though.
jediyoshi
Member
It just seems like that's such a big design decision that I doubt will change during early access.
How many early access games have changed their genre while in early access?
Frozenprince
Banned
There's no way they'd make it first person only. None. It's selling like crazy and become stupid popular the way it's constructed now.
An additional mode that's first person only will probably happen, but it's not going to be the standard way to play, not now that it's got such a foothold in the market.
An additional mode that's first person only will probably happen, but it's not going to be the standard way to play, not now that it's got such a foothold in the market.
Felix Lighter
Member
3rd person isn't being removed. The genre isn't changing. First person only will be a different hardcore playmode. It's something that has been planned.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I never said that. Customization is a key part of the game. They have sold and advertised the game with the third person perspective as a core feature. All of these elements are directly related to the mechanics, but besides these, is the concern of community fragmentation.
Secondly, it's not a all-or-nothing situation where removing something that doesn't have to be removed from the feature set, is the same as not favoring choice or modding.
If it was designed with first person they would never have implemented third person in the first place. This is a non argument. By the time a game hits early access it's already had EXTENSIVE gameplay and been through thousands of hours of design spec.
Serious question, have you ever played Arma before?
Regarding the first vs third person topic, I highly recommend Dslyecxi's take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Yes
Since when? Since it fractured super small playerbases in similar games.
Because they are letting twitch streamers have a few custom game servers to test out the functionality before they make it available for everyone.
Name one of these games it fractured.
TheContact
Member
This game looks interesting but every time I watch a stream it's just a guy camping in a house
and why would that be relevant to the third most popular game on steam
ForkNetwork
Banned
This game is a lot of fun...but its too unoptimized for my low mid-tier computer. I cant literally participate in a gun fight. Framerate drops like a rock. 
Nabs
Member
You're probably watching the wrong streams.
EmCeeGramr
Member
They should double blue damage if you're aiming or shooting while in it, and halve it if you're actively moving toward the edge.
I was thinking, a good way to give attention to some custom modes is just do a consistent "mode of the day/week" like other games do.
Have a pistols only mode highlighted in the main menu or Blue circle twice as fast/half the length, when you kill someone your location is highlighted for a few seconds, etc.
There's so many interesting opportunities.
Right but that's not what we're debating.
Have a pistols only mode highlighted in the main menu or Blue circle twice as fast/half the length, when you kill someone your location is highlighted for a few seconds, etc.
There's so many interesting opportunities.
Right but that's not what we're debating.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
My general strategy I've been doing more often whether Solo or Squads is to basically loot as much early in the most dense city sort of zone that's the furthest from the plane's path, so as to avoid people early, then get a vehicle and try to guess where the middle of the circle is going to be and get a good camping spot.
If you can be camped out near where the circle winds up narrowing down to pretty early on, you can pretty consistently get in the top 10-15 without even doing too much.
Felix Lighter
Member
Yeah, Grimmz and Anthony Kongphan. They play extremely aggressively. Grimmz is the better player. They play duos together though and it's a lot of fun to watch as they murder a third of the server.
therealminime
Member
Finally got my first solo chicken dinner. 0 kills, 0 hits. Just me crawling through the grass as the other 2 dudes shoot at each other and are killed by the unforgiving blue.
Ha, that's awesome.
Comrade Doggo
Member
This is pretty much where I'm coming from (SOCOM). I originally poo-poo'd the game because it didn't seem like it for was for me, but after a friend likened it to SOCOM I actually took the plunge to buy it.
If the game were to force first person mode on me? I'd probably stop playing. I agree that everyone should have their choice but I don't know if the playerbase is large enough to split off the probably 20-30% of active users that might want to play in FP only. I think there are clear disadvantages/advantages to both viewpoints and that the current setup - allowing someone to choose their own adventure, so to speak - is probably the best middleground you can find.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I had some of the most vicious cruel circles today, to the point that if you told me that PlayerUnknown himself was placing them and the vehicle/boost item drops to fuck specifically me over I'd believe it.
Circles dashing off at 3x max running speed the second I'm about to touch them, three circles in a row shrinking to the far end of the same direction, 20 unlooted houses with no boost items in them, at one point my boat glitched out and flipped upside down (as in, one frame it was normal and then it was instantly upside down) and because they took out swim healing I just barely made it to shore with a sliver of health left, then found a buggy and made it into the next circle with a sliver of health left, then another buggy crashed into mine right as I made it to houses and the guy popped out with a Saiga to headshot my 2HP away.
Circles dashing off at 3x max running speed the second I'm about to touch them, three circles in a row shrinking to the far end of the same direction, 20 unlooted houses with no boost items in them, at one point my boat glitched out and flipped upside down (as in, one frame it was normal and then it was instantly upside down) and because they took out swim healing I just barely made it to shore with a sliver of health left, then found a buggy and made it into the next circle with a sliver of health left, then another buggy crashed into mine right as I made it to houses and the guy popped out with a Saiga to headshot my 2HP away.
MacGurcules
Member
Man, just got smoked, but had a real fun game.
Duos, buddy and I did a long drop to the fishing village northwest of the base, got some decent loot and then were fortunate enough to be practically in the middle of the circle. Had two supply drops come one after the other within a few hundred meters of us. Got a couple opportunistic kills from other folks rolling up then got boned because I forgot to reload my new vector. Don't even remember where we placed, but a fun time nonetheless.
Duos, buddy and I did a long drop to the fishing village northwest of the base, got some decent loot and then were fortunate enough to be practically in the middle of the circle. Had two supply drops come one after the other within a few hundred meters of us. Got a couple opportunistic kills from other folks rolling up then got boned because I forgot to reload my new vector. Don't even remember where we placed, but a fun time nonetheless.
Saw a note said they are applying a hotfix for leaderboards.
Frozenprince
Banned
That feeling when you Rush somebody down, blast them in the he with a double barrel, then get BS hit from 300 meters away by some prick with an 8x.
Got my first chicken dinner with my squad a bit earlier. The middle of the area was a small house. I ran to it first with my teammates covering me. 3 guys got in a moment after I did while I was in the bathroom healing up. Said 3 guys picked off 2 of my friends while they were firing at them while I opened the bathroom door to pick them off. I walk out of the bathroom only to discover there was one guy left and get picked off. So my last teammate shot him through the window and got him.
It was pretty awesome.
It was pretty awesome.
therealminime
Member
Really getting bored of every solo game ending in "durr you got sniped from who the fuck knows where try again!"
edit: also how seemingly everyone in top 15 has a sniper except for you
edit: also how seemingly everyone in top 15 has a sniper except for you