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[icy_eagle]

Is there literally anywhere I can go as a white male without being concerned about privilege?


I'm genuinely curious.

Why, does it bother you?

 

[Waylon Drums]

This bothers me too. Add to the fact that being a brown guy really fucking sucks when the most popular retail games in the last 8 years or so largely involve shooting arabs in the face, and even the suggestion that I have an islamic last name or whatever will unleash a fuckton of vitriol thrown at me in a multiplayer game.

Adding to this example: try being a dude who's into dudes. I don't do the "straight bro" affect when I talk so people usually zero-in on the fact that I'm gay and harp on it. Or just plain disregard me because "lol i aint talkin to no fag herpdeprdpep." I've often wondered what it must be like to be a "brown person" playing CoD where the goal is to shoot...brown people.

 

[213372bu]

I don't understand how so many of these points are considered to be 'especially not true' by your standards. Some are a bit off, but the large majority of them seem to be fairly accurate. Please describe how you think all of these points are untrue:2,3,5,6,11,13,15,22,23, and 24 . I'm sure there is an argument for 1 or 2, but I want to know your reasoning for the rest.

Sure thing, and by the way I play constantly with a friend of mine online and she does face sexism time to time, so I have experience with the issue.

I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male. - Normally the opposite is said, video games simply aren't seen as masculine to some.


I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender. - This isn't just in regards to males. Many people deal with harassment, stalking, and bullying if they were to do the same thing. My "privilege" doesn't exempt this from happening, as said in this statement.


If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to "get attention" from other gamers. - Many people are constantly called out for faking enthusiasm for games because it's "popular". People who play such games such as Minecraft or Call of Duty are only ridiculed for "getting attention" and that expressing such enthusiasm is only meant so that one can fit in. Others' "privlege" as males doesn't mean that people automatically assume they are lying about enthusiasm over games.



I can look at practically any gaming review site, show, blog or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented. - Women are constantly being represented through blog posts, as reviewers, and in other fields through many means.

The only reason that actual views from women on sexism are not widely heard is because we have yet to have an article that actually touches on sexism and how we should respond to it. Most articles don't touch on any actual substance, rather they only founded on blaming groups of males,which and making the same "unjust/broad/untrue accusations" that they so wish to eliminate from females. This hypocritical way of thought will only push away anybody who actually is interested in the matter, and dilute the real matters that need to be addressed.



I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner. - I don't even have to explain how wrong this is, not to mention how disgusting it is to dismiss this as a problem exempt from males is ignoring the many suicides that have emerged from cyber-bullying.


I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that "men are not real gamers." -If a male were to say his favorite game ever was a dress-up game, or even Animal Crossing, they would surely get ridiculed in schools. When people play nerdy games, groups of masculine men may point that it shows they're not real "men". Is being a real "gamer" really comparable to being questioned if you're a really a "man"?

When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend. - If any male were to buy a dress-up game, pet game, or any type of casual game, you can be expected to have a response from the cashier. I was questioned if I bought Nintendogs, Animal Crossing 3DS/DS, and friggin' Mario 3D World because I look too masculine to be playing those types of games.

In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my "attractiveness" or "sexual availability" in real-life. - And men aren't being ridiculed like this over the internet? Guys are constantly questioned " Do you have friends?" "Do you even have a girlfriend?" "Do you even have a life outside videogames?" " I bet you're ugly and no girl likes you." Being a male, or even a female, doesn't exclude ANYONE from such comments.

If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing. - If anything this is the exact opposite. If I were to say I was a "maleist" and that I believed that men are treated unfairly in gaming because men are given unrealistic abs that the average man would not be capable of, I would be ridiculed just the same amount as someone who argues against Dragon's Crown.Being a male doesn't exempt me from receiving backlash because I find something absurd, whether or not how absurd it really is.

]Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer. The argument for rights on women would be taken much more seriously if it was spoken by a woman stating the actual problems she has to face. Having a man make such assertions only makes it sound like they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[RMI]

Sexism is a real problem, and the way many men generally treat women everywhere is appalling, but I find it difficult to associate such words as "privileged" in the context of making the distinction between two groups of people that play videogames..

Poor videogamers have it worse than gamers with a decent and stable income. Same goes for gamers in third world countries vs. first world countries, and sick gamers vs. healthy gamers, but it seems kind of silly to focus on such a small, secondary aspect of much bigger and more important problems.

I see where you're coming from, but you can't dismiss this particular issue just because there are worse problems or greater iniquities. You had it right at sexism is a real problem. I don't necessarily agree with how the press and various pundits or whatever address this problem, because they tend to cherry-pick the worst most horrible offenders and paint them as the majority in broad strokes, maybe blowing the whole thing way out of proportion as you're saying, but it is still a real problem that people have to deal with.

On an unrelated note, I clicked through the link to the Tropes vs Women site and noticed they haven't had an update for a while. Anyone know what's going on with that?

 

[Delusibeta]

Things on the list that I think are incorrect: #11 (see recent GAF drama over Angry Joe for a counterexample), #21 ("you must have a small dick, then") #22 (Uno on 360), #24 ("white knight") and #25 (personal opinion, although the article probably wouldn't be published if it was written by a woman due to Ben Kutchera vetoing it, so *shrug*)

 

[Waylon Drums]

Why, does it bother you?

People sometimes get PISSED when you shine a light on their privilege. And that's exactly what it is, whether that term upsets people or not. I think it comes down to feeling attacked when, really, they shouldn't feel that way.

 

[erpg]

Why, does it bother you?

Of course not. He's male and has the privilege to be above all that funk.

 

[APF]

Yeah, the article has some questionable points and is, frankly, too bloated. It's like the author wanted to present a very lengthy list to impress the readers, and ended up with half of the entries being weak or redundant (half the list is simply "being a woman means online assholes get something to harass you about"). I actually chuckled at the GameStop one - but seriously, I think putting actual harassment on the same list as "store clerk thinks you're buying the game for your boyfriend" only serves to weaken the message.

I think it's pretty useful to show it's not all these huge things like outright abuse or harassment, but it's also how these pernicious ideas permeate even into small things that eg white men would never have to even think about. That's the whole point of discussing this as "privilege."

 

[rudieboy77]

I agree with most all of the points, I just do not agree with this privilege terminology.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Why, does it bother you?

Not really. I actually try to remain cognizant of it and not take most things for granted. I think it's more of a morbid curiosity if there is an easily recognizable place where the white man has not managed to boost himself up at the expense of everyone around him.

 

[The_Monk]

If it comes up in a game just tell the person(s) that it's not on. If someone else has the courage to do that then back them up on it. In all forms of online harassment, not just against women. The more people who pick up this policy the quicker other people will get the idea.

really outside of speaking up and, kicking the offender(if possible), there isn't much you can do to change another person's actions.

I already do this, yet, what surprises me the most is that if I try to speak up I'm in the minority while the name calling or racism is more prevalent. It won't stop me from trying anyway. People change and I have faith.

 

[Moneal]

I already do this, yet, what surprises me the most is that if I try to speak up I'm in the minority while the name calling or racism is more prevalent. It won't stop me from trying anyway. People change and I have faith.

i think its really the nature of competition between some males. it wouldn't matter if it was a game of cod or a pick up game of basketball at the local gym, some guys just trash talk without thinking about what they say.

 

[besada]

The arguments that begin and end with "This happens outside of gaming!" are not only not conducive to discussion, but seem to miss the fundamental point that this is a video gaming discussion board. There is no doubt that the world is rife with sexism outside of gaming, just as there is no doubt that it's rife within the gaming community.

So quit using the fact that sexism exists outside of gaming as an excuse to ignore it inside gaming. This is a friendly suggestion, for those of you who'd like to hold onto your accounts.

 

[kubus]

Wow, that list was heartbreaking to read. I've been in so many of those situations listed and I'm only realizing now how stupid and wrong that is. It just became "normal" to me... :/.

I disagree with a few points and some could be applied to both genders, but most of them are spot-on. Damn.

Here's hoping things will get better, but as long as internet anonymity exists, I'm afraid it won't.

 

[Waylon Drums]

If any male were to buy a dress-up game, pet game, or any type of casual game, you can be expected to have a response from the cashier. I was questioned if I bought Nintendogs, Animal Crossing 3DS/DS, and friggin' Mario 3D World because I look too masculine to be playing those types of games.

The example in bold proves the point. Straight males are the "expected" gamer and since you were buying something that didn't fall neatly into the "expected" category you got a "response" from the cashier. Now try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. What do you think I get from a cashier if I go into Gamestop with my husband and buy Call of Duty? Or a woman? Now, which example do you think happens more frequently?

 

[213372bu]

People sometimes get PISSED when you shine a light on their privilege. And that's exactly what it is, whether that term upsets people or not. I think it comes down to feeling attacked when, really, they shouldn't feel that way.

I think it's because, if we are going by the actual definition of privilege, (not this wrong use of terminology used by the journalist,) that states :

a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

By use is inappropriate for the subject. Just because you are a male doesn't exclude you from these points. We are divided where things come down to race and religion in such matters, regardless of gender, and that such immunity isn't obtained by simply being male. We have males who face cyber bullying for being of a particular religion or for being in a particular race that go to the point of suicide, and the fact that "journalists" have the right to literally marginalize such dire issues is offensive to somebody. I'm a male and I face many of the down-comings that are subject to only women according to this article due to race,religion, and personal beliefs.

 

[DocSeuss]

Interesting points.

Also, the reason the word privilege annoys people probably is because it has a connotation of "easy life, never have to work, things handed to you, rich, wealthy, lazy, ignorant, etc"

even though these don't apply to the gaming definition, the connotation is still there. It makes it seem like you have it easy, and people don't like hearing that they have it easy.

It absolutely does. People, elsewhere in my life, have been all "blah blah blah, Doc, you'll never understand true hardship, because you're a white dude..."

And the thing is, I've had some life experiences that directly contradict this notion. I've had a boss who absolutely hated men (yay divorce, amirite), and chose, as a result, to use me, the only guy she had left, as a target for verbal abuse. I have a disability, which she ignored, making me do a ton of grunt work I physically should not have been doing, because I was a "wimp," or a "big baby." I was, supposedly, a "big, strong guy," so regardless of my health issues, I had to do the "manly" work around the office. At one point, security had to pull her away from screaming at me and get her to calm down.

So, imagine being me, with multiple experiences like that, and have someone go "you're privileged, you'll never understand blah blah blah..."

The most immediate response is, y'know, anger. Frustration. Discussions of privilege often come from upper middle-class people with financial security, people who live utterly separate lives from my own. When they speak, they speak as if they know my life, but in complete ignorance of me. They attempt to guilt-trip people like me with no understanding of my situation. As a result, their efforts are futile.

A much better way to approach a topic like this is to ignore the concept of privilege, because that term immediately establishes "us vs them," and go with words like "disadvantaged."

Instead of going "you, white man, lack the empathy to understand women, and I"m going to group you all together with some jerks," which upsets people, we can come at this and say:

"Hey, women are being treated poorly in games. Would you like to be treated like this? No! So let's try to fix this! Can we make more games with female leads? Can we aggressively deal with people who resort to groping?"

We should be working, but not to showcase a divide and be accusatory, and discussions of privilege do just that, often targeting people who don't deserve it at all. That's where all the anger comes from. It's people feeling wrongly accused.

At some point in my life, my goal is to make games that I feel appeal to women. I've noticed that certain AAA franchises like Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, and the Legend of Zelda appeal greatly to women, so I'd like to make games that have that feel, so my friends can have more things to play. I want to create an environment that's inclusive and supportive, and I think accusing people of having it easier sabotages my ability to do so. I want to create an inclusive environment, not highlight divides.

 

[Moneal]

The example in bold proves the point. Straight males are the "expected" gamer and since you were buying something that didn't fall neatly into the "expected" category you got a "response" from the cashier. Now try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. What do you think I get from a cashier if I go into Gamestop with my husband and buy Call of Duty? Or a woman? Now, which example do you think happens more frequently?

it also shows it works both ways. which disproves the point that males are excluded from that attitude, just because they are males.

 

[Orayn]

i think its really the nature of competition between some males. it wouldn't matter if it was a game of cod or a pick up game of basketball at the local gym, some guys just trash talk without thinking about what they say.

One could very, very easily argue that the trash talk and language is a culture thing that guys are socialized into.

Increased desire to compete and be aggressive due to testosterone I can accept, but the specific responses to it seem kind of tough to justify on a biological basis.

 

[TheSeks]

Why mention "white" when the article is so gender focused?

It's also forgetting "straight." Throw in homophobic insults and people questioning other peoples sexualities online.

 

[AlwaysPlaying]

I feel enlightened by this article. Made aware if a privilege that, until now, I never realized. I hope I never act in such a fashion that would make any woman, or human being for that matter feel as though they cannot be part of a culture that is supposed to be all about fun. I mean why else would anyone play games? Thank you OP for showing me this article.

 

[VanWinkle]

I don't enjoy these types of articles, because I can't do anything about the fact that some people are jerks and don't treat others respecfully, and I never participate in these gender biases. I treat all gamers the same in all matters outside of personalities/conduct. I feel like a big basis for these articles are making people (who may have nothing to do with these activities) feel guilty, ironically just because of their gender.

 

[Surfaced]

Let's get this shit started.

 

[DocSeuss]

Sure thing, and by the way I play constantly with a friend of mine online and she does face sexism time to time, so I have experience with the issue.

I'm not with you on all of this, but I am with you on some. This quote stuck out to me.

If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to "get attention" from other gamers. - Many people are constantly called out for faking enthusiasm for games because it's "popular". People who play such games such as Minecraft or Call of Duty are only ridiculed for "getting attention" and that expressing such enthusiasm is only meant so that one can fit in. Others' "privlege" as males doesn't mean that people automatically assume they are lying about enthusiasm over games.

I dislike a few major popular games. I'm constantly accused of attention seeking as a result of this, just because I have an opinion that deviates from the norm.

He really seems to be reaching.

 

[Waylon Drums]

it also shows it works both ways. which disproves the point that males are excluded from that attitude, just because they are males.

The point isn't that males are completely immune, no one is, but in that example, who do you think sees that kind of issue more often? And who do you think faces more vitriol?

 

[AlwaysPlaying]

I don't enjoy these types of articles, because I can't do anything about the fact that some people are jerks and don't treat others respecfully, and I never participate in these gender biases. I treat all gamers the same in all matters outside of personalities/conduct. I feel like a big basis for these articles are making people (who may have nothing to do with these activities) feel guilty, ironically just because of their gender.[/QUOTE

edit: not sure how i feel about this upon a second reading.

 

[213372bu]

The example in bold proves the point. Straight males are the "expected" gamer and since you were buying something that didn't fall neatly into the "expected" category you got a "response" from the cashier. Now try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. What do you think I get from a cashier if I go into Gamestop with my husband and buy Call of Duty? Or a woman? Now, which example do you think happens more frequently?

But the thing is the article targets men as a whole. Straight males expectations of straight males,in gaming too, have gone to the point of suicide and cause of mental illness. Regardless of how often it anecdotally happens, the term "privilege" belittles the fact that men have to face these same issues on a large scale every single day. The term privilege by definition implies that, all if not a majority, males have an immunity to such social issues, as I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Moneal]

The point isn't that males are completely immune, no one is, but in that example, who do you think sees that kind of issue more often? And who do you think faces more vitriol?

but the article basically said it was because they were male, they didn't have to deal with that type of stuff.

 

[ItAintEasy]

I agree with everything on that list and I can even pull out of my memory times where I have been guilty of some of the assumptions and thoughts.

I find it hard to get away from being surprised by the fact that someone playing a game is a girl and she is actually good, and this is more of a problem with me and what I learned growing up about video games. The one thing that is helping me get over this stupid stereotype is the fact that I watch a lot of Twitch now a days and there are some women that stream that are genuinely great players and seem to be good people as well. One example of this is Hafu. I really enjoy watching her stream because its fun and she is a good player.

There are, however, some streamers who use their sexuality as a female to get views and their game play is awful and people are clearly just watching for "OMG TITS!1!!". Good for them for taking advantage of their situation and finding a way to make money off of it, but I find it to be very distasteful and hurtful to the cause of women who want to game without fear of harassment

 

[Waylon Drums]

I don't enjoy these types of articles, because I can't do anything about the fact that some people are jerks and don't treat others respecfully, and I never participate in these gender biases. I treat all gamers the same in all matters outside of personalities/conduct. I feel like a big basis for these articles are making people (who may have nothing to do with these activities) feel guilty, ironically just because of their gender.

But you've just done something. You've undermined the entire conversation by boiling it down to "I can fix this problem myself so I'll do nothing to help" AND played the ever-popular victim card. "They were mean to me by point things out I don't like to hear" isn't even ALMOST a good reason for people to stop talking about an important subject.

 

[casmith07]

I think many of these things extend way beyond just gaming and the way people behave within the gaming world, is simply a visible indicator of our gender biased society

That first post.

 

[ghst]

well, could be worse. you could be a well meaning russian just trying to enjoy a game of dota.

 

[Orayn]

I feel enlightened by this article. Made aware if a privilege that, until now, I never realized. I hope I never act in such a fashion that would make any woman, or human being for that matter feel as though they cannot be part of a culture that is supposed to be all about fun. I mean why else would anyone play games? Thank you OP for showing me this article.

With regards to the bolded: The idea that somebody would sneer at people wanting to feel welcome and included while participating in a hobby and being part of a community is really sad to me. Just the mindset that somebody has to put up with abuse and zero accommodations can be made for them because they're not the main demographic is something I find senselessly cruel and insular. (I'm having a hard time discerning the tone of your post because I've come to expect nasty, sarcastic responses in threads like this.)

 

[Jado]

"who has worked as a producer on Anita Sarkeesian's Tropes vs. Women in Video Games series"
And.. I stopped taking it seriously here.
Although some of these are brain dead obvious some aren't.
Heck take number 16 for example, this is definitely wrong.

Number 14 as well, alot of game studios are staffed with plenty of females, even in places you don't expect; e.g. the writers of Duke Nukem Forever were females.

In terms of Online spaces, you're going to be harassed no matter what, no matter who you are. There have been times where women have trashed talked to me.

In terms of the game industry, many females are being hired today, more than ever.

Sorry to hear that dude, I've seen my black friend being called the n-word in online games. It's very sad that people like this still live.

It's just as sad that there are people like you around.

You feel bad for him, but you don't care to acknowledge that the vast majority of the gaming industry is run and staffed by white males and caters specifically to white males, in turn perpetuating the insular culture that has so much rampant racism and sexism? Bad person = guy who says nigger. But nothing wrong with the willfully ignorant and complacent who are fine with denying anything is wrong, downplaying problems and maintaning the status quo. Okay.

I generally agree with this list, and it's awful that these situations exist. I do have to wonder what:

11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.

has to do with gender at all, though. If I see anyone, regardless of gender, unnecessarily using an aggressive, or obnoxious tone I will absolutely dismiss and or attack them until they learn to be sensible.

Women are more readily dismissed as shrewd, PMSing, cunts, etc. the moment they deviate from "soft, pleasant, agreeable."

It's wrong to assume, certainly, so I try not to.

Unfortunately the stereotype comes from girls who do in fact want attention. In fact, the majority do, in my experience. Even girls who do like gaming often harp on the fact.

It's pretty hard to find girls (outside of forums and things) that genuinely like games, so we get this stereotype. It's a bad stereotype (I mean, what stereotype isn't bad?), but it's really more something that guys can't really fix. Girls have to.

Must suck to be girls who really do genuinely just want to have fun and play games.

Sorry, this is bullshit. You're basing this on the small number of Youtube gamer girls and the like who try to get maximum viewership (they still don't deserve to be shat on as there are plenty of guy gamers doing the same thing). A very large number of women who play games are simply not reaching out to you and saying "hey, im not an attention whore" as you've somehow come to expect.

I'm also really tired of the posts that chalk it up to anonymity or those that imply we shouldn't tackle this problem because it's not a gaming-only problem and the world's problems need to be solved first.

To the Gaffers bringing up anecdotes about that one time someone called him a dick or his little sister beat him in a game and laughed: who said men don't get harassed? The difference is that men generally harass other men, and rarely due to gender (sorry but even if a guy says you're a dickless loser, his intent isn't to put down men). All of this is very different than the insults and other shit women put up with on a regular basis.

Yeah. I don't really understand why this topic is brought up on GAF this often when it is very clear that you have to be VERY careful for even questing those articels without getting banned.

Peace out guys, going to the bunker.

Just say whatever is on your mind. Is it that vile that you're worried about getting banned?

 

[Flo_Evans]

I get the intent with these lists... but they just seem off to me.

Like (paraphrasing): "If I suck and people are making fun of me, I can rest assured my sucking is not caused by my gender, it is just because I just suck.

OK? Like what exactly does this prove?

 

[casmith07]

It's also forgetting "straight." Throw in homophobic insults and people questioning other peoples sexualities online.

Along with racial slurs, which I hope has already been mentioned.

 

[Waylon Drums]

But the thing is the article targets men as a whole. Straight males expectations of straight males,in gaming too, have gone to the point of suicide and cause of mental illness. Regardless of how often it anecdotally happens, the term "privilege" belittles the fact that men have to face these same issues on a large scale every single day. The term privilege by definition implies that, all if not a majority, males have an immunity to such social issues, as I mentioned in my previous post.

This is true, I actually am taking a more narrow view than the article. With that said, I think that the fact that anyone believes that what a straight guy hears from a cashier when he buys Animal Crossing even comes close to what a gay or non-white male hears from all corners of the gaming community is laughable at best. I'm disappointed in myself for even engaging in the conversation about it, quite frankly.

 

[AlwaysPlaying]

With regards to the bolded: The idea that somebody would sneer at people wanting to feel welcome and included while participating in a hobby and being part of a community is really sad to me. Just the mindset that somebody has to put up with abuse and zero accommodations can be made for them because they're not the main demographic is something I find senselessly cruel and insular. (I'm having a hard time discerning the tone of your post because I've come to expect nasty, sarcastic responses in threads like this.)

My response is 100% genuine. I feel sad that any gamer would feel that unwelcome when trying to partake in something that is supposed to bring joy.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Video gaming just lends itself to anonymity, where this kind of abuse can happen without repercussions. I feel like most of the problem is that we can't hold the abusive minority accountable in any meaningful way right now.

I participate in several hobbies that are normally male dominated, but require face to face interactions, i.e. board games and minature games(Warhammer40k, Warmachine, etc.) and it usually turns out far better for women. When I'm playing a board game with a larger group that includes my wife or any female friends, there are guys that we exclude because of some off-color behavior in the past. The ability to stigmatize them forces them to either mature, or continue to be excluded. It's led to a much friendlier group overall with a more even distribution of genders. A few years ago it felt like out of 10 that showed up for board game days, 1 was female. Now it's closer to 1/3rd of the group on average.

 

[Orayn]

I get the intent with these lists... but they just seem off to me.

Like (paraphrasing): "If I suck and people are making fun of me, I can rest assured my sucking is not caused by my gender, it is just because I just suck.

OK? Like what exactly does this prove?

For that one?

It's not fun to have other people to make assumptions about you based on your identity and treat you as less capable because of that.

My response is 100% genuine. I feel sad that any gamer would feel that unwelcome when trying to partake in something that is supposed to bring joy.

Good stuff, it's hard to tell with some of the ways people react to this sort of topic.

 

[VanWinkle]

But you've just done something. You've undermined the entire conversation by boiling it down to "I can fix this problem myself so I'll do nothing to help" AND played the ever-popular victim card. "They were mean to me by point things out I don't like to hear" isn't even ALMOST a good reason for people to stop talking about an important subject.

I'm playing the victim? Not in the slightest. I don't feel victimized, but I'm the intended recipient: a male. I don't think they were mean to me. I said that articles like this seem to want males to feel guilty because they're males and they have it better than females. I'm not a jerk. I treat everyone fairly. I don't always get treated fairly, but I'm not going to make a case of it, because there's a lot of things people can find to hate on one another for. I hate that a lot of females get treated unfairly for being female. That's why I don't treat them unfairly. So who is this article for? Who does the author want to hear this? The jerks who treat women this way? Does he just want to bring attention to the fact that some people are jerks and don't treat everyone fairly? Everybody already knows this, especially when they're under the veil of anonymity.

 

[thechristoph]

Nevermind.

 

[way more]

But you've just done something. You've undermined the entire conversation by boiling it down to "I can fix this problem myself so I'll do nothing to help" AND played the ever-popular victim card. "They were mean to me by point things out I don't like to hear" isn't even ALMOST a good reason for people to stop talking about an important subject.

Well said. It reminds me of when a famous person comes out as gay and people say "so? why are we even talking about sexuality," as a way to undermine it.

 

[JC Lately]

I grow weary of these kind of articles.

Not because of what it has to say. I’m on board with that part. What I am growing tired of is what happens next. This article, like so many before it, will get passed around gaf and social networking sites for a week, week and half tops, and then forgotten and we’re right back to business and privilege as usual. It’s kinda like Continental Congress putting together the Declaration of Independence and then never fighting the America Revolution, in favor of just putting out a slightly reworded Declaration ever few months or so.

That’s a terrible analogy, but you get my point. Stop telling me what the problems are. I got that part figured out. Tell me what is to be done about it.

 

[Karsticles]

I agree with most all of the points, I just do not agree with this privilege terminology.

It's really unfortunate that the term "privilege" has caught on, since this is decidedly not a kind of privilege. It is not something "given" to anyone. It cannot be taken away by any particular entity. It is the cumulative result of the present state of affairs.

 

[Waylon Drums]

I'm playing the victim? Not in the slightest. I don't feel victimized, but I'm the intended recipient: a male. I don't think they were mean to me. I said that articles like this seem to want males to feel guilty because they're males and they have it better than females. I'm not a jerk. I treat everyone fairly. I don't always get treated fairly, but I'm not going to make a case of it, because there's a lot of things people can find to hate on one another for. So who is this article for? Who does the author want to hear this? The jerks who treat women this way? Does he just want to bring attention to the fact that some people are jerks and don't treat everyone fairly? Everybody already knows this, especially when they're under the veil of anonymity.

Again you've just kind of resigned yourself to the fact that "this happens oh well" which is absolutely your right but that doesn't mean the conversation should stop. Just by virtue of the fact that this is even a subject is a win because just a decade ago I can't imagine this would be discussed AT ALL. JUST the fact that you've read about it and disagree with the intent is a win because you thought about it. At least that's how I see it...

 

[213372bu]

This is true, I actually am taking a more narrow view than the article. With that said, I think that the fact that anyone believes that what a straight guy hears from a cashier when he buys Animal Crossing even comes close to what a gay or non-white male hears from all corners of the gaming community is laughable at best. I'm disappointed in myself for even engaging in the conversation about it, quite frankly.

As a Hispanic who has been called every slur in the book, I know. But some people, that I've been in school with just to let you know, have ended up committing suicide because what they do is considered feminine. Despite how laughable you or others may find it, some people are really sensitive and those who are insecure constantly play that through their head as if it were something just as bad.

 

[Turin Turambar]

The arguments that begin and end with "This happens outside of gaming!" are not only not conducive to discussion, but seem to miss the fundamental point that this is a video gaming discussion board. There is no doubt that the world is rife with sexism outside of gaming, just as there is no doubt that it's rife within the gaming community.

So quit using the fact that sexism exists outside of gaming as an excuse to ignore it inside gaming. This is a friendly suggestion, for those of you who'd like to hold onto your accounts.

It isn't always an "excuse", but an contextualization. Because sometimes, sexism is mentioned in the context of gaming as if it was abnormally or inherent sexist culture/industry. That, you will agree, should be discussed and have arguments before, instead of taking it for granted.

 

[Orayn]

I grow weary of these kind of articles.

Not because of what it has to say. I’m on board with that part. What I am growing tired of is what happens next. This article, like so many before it, will get passed around gaf and social networking sites for a week, week and half tops, and then forgotten and we’re right back to business and privilege as usual. It’s kinda like Continental Congress putting together the Declaration of Independence and then never fighting the America Revolution, in favor of just putting out a slightly reworded Declaration ever few months or so.

That’s a terrible analogy, but you get my point. Stop telling me what the problems are. I got that part figured out. Tell me what is to be done about it.

Not sure I agree with the bolded. These topics are coming up more frequently because they have traction. Just this fall we had the topic of female playable character come up and get actual responses from developers and publishers for Battlefield 4, Puppeteer, and GTA V. The answers weren't all affirmative, sweeping, and progressive, but the fact that they were even willing to talk about it would suggest that these topics aren't just a flash in the pan.

 

[VanWinkle]

It's really unfortunate that the term "privilege" has caught on, since this is decidedly not a kind of privilege. It is not something "given" to anyone. It cannot be taken away by any particular entity. It is the cumulative result of the present state of affairs.

Yeah, the problem isn't that males have "privileges". The problem is that many women are treated unfairly because of their gender, these so-called "privileges" are just how everybody should be treated.

Again you've just kind of resigned yourself to the fact that "this happens oh well" which is absolutely your right but that doesn't mean the conversation should stop. Just by virtue of the fact that this is even a subject is a win because just a decade ago I can't imagine this would be discussed AT ALL. JUST the fact that you've read about it and disagree with the intent is a win because you thought about it. At least that's how I see it...

Okay, let me word it this way: what is the purpose of the article? What is he trying to get us to understand or do?