Support NeoGAF

[KyoZz]

LMAO of course this thread is by XXL, THE n°1 fanboy.

How high the PS5 Pro ranks on that list makes some PC gamers super uncomfortable.

It's pretty obvious.

Which is why they're in pretty much every PS5 Pro thread.

The PS5 Pro doesn't need to beat the highest end GPUs on PC market to be attractive, that fact it's even being compared to high end GPUs.....says everything.

And this comment from Alex is just further proof of that fact.

And the fact that you are so obsessed with PC vs PS5 is showing that if there is one person that is insecure/uncomfortable, it's you.

It's gonna play maybe 3% of titles better (without stutter). The other 97% of games will still be better on PC (including Spider-Man 2 which is releasing soon, not too salty about that?)

Quit trying to shit on PC, enjoy your PS5 Pro which is gonna be a welcome upgrade and that's it. In short: stop acting like you are 7.

 

[GHG]

Consoles need to die so we don't have to deal with "bad ports" and just have games made for PC.

At this juncture one could argue that most games are PlayStation native and the rest are "ports" for other platforms ?

Imagine the whiplash you must feel from spending years stanning for the Series S to now having to say consoles need to die.

 

[clarky]

4090 laptop is crazy. How do you handle the temp/heat? I've always struggled with that, but TBF, I live in a very hot/humid environment (think avg. 100 F*+ 24x7x365)

Repaste with PTM7950. GPU/CPU stay in the 80's which it fine for mobile chips.

40 series mobile cards are pretty good on temps tbh even the 175w 4090. It the mobile CPU's mainly that are the hardest to keep under a reasonable level in my experience.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Imagine the whiplash you must feel from spending years stanning for the Series S to now having to say consoles need to die.

That is par for the course. It is MS’s schtick: “either our console way is The way or the console market is dead. We cannot be wrong”. Praise be to Phil.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Repaste with PTM7950. GPU/CPU stay in the 80's which it fine for mobile chips.

40 series mobile cards are pretty good on temps tbh even the 175w 4090. It the mobile CPU's mainly that are the hardest to keep under a reasonable level in my experience.

Yeah, I always underclocked CPUs and turned off the Turbo modes in gaming laptops because the CPU would go crazy.

80s is considered fine, but I always freakout seeing numbers beyond 70s. But it is more of a personal paranoia issue lol

 

[GHG]

Repaste with PTM7950. GPU/CPU stay in the 80's which it fine for mobile chips.

40 series mobile cards are pretty good on temps tbh even the 175w 4090. It the mobile CPU's mainly that are the hardest to keep under a reasonable level in my experience.

Yep is the Laptop CPU's that cause the most issues.

I ended up putting a huge undervolt on the CPU in my laptop (5800H + 3070) and ironically it performs better than it did out of the box now because it can boost without hitting thermal limits and the 3070 doesn't have to suffer from its heat anymore.

Yeah, I always underclocked CPUs and turned off the Turbo modes in gaming laptops because the CPU would go crazy.

80s is considered fine, but I always freakout seeing numbers beyond 70s. But it is more of a personal paranoia issue lol

For laptops, over long periods of time I'd say 80's isn't fine because of the impact the heat has on a lot of other components cramped up inside that plastic shell.

 

[TastyPastry]

it's also a great way to avoid shitty launchers like the epic game store with alan wake 2 or ubi connect (if you are for some reason still into ubisoft games)

 

[Esppiral]

Please validate my decisions.

 

[SkylineRKR]

But for how long ? Because we all know that every PC gamer own the latest parts & automatically will be playing games with the new top of the line GPUs when they release new hardware.

Yeah, after a few months PC catches up and beats it again. This is how it always goes.

 

[clarky]

Yep is the Laptop CPU's that cause the most issues.

I ended up putting a huge undervolt on the CPU in my laptop (5800H + 3070) and ironically it performs better than it did out of the box now because it can boost without hitting thermal limits and the 3070 doesn't have to suffer from its heat anymore.



For laptops, over long periods of time I'd say 80's isn't fine because of the impact the heat has on a lot of other components cramped up inside that plastic shell.

Battery bloat has been my biggest issue over the years but i do tend to upgrade every GPU (or at least every other) cycle so have not noticed anything else go wrong, touch wood.

Like you say a big undervolt is your best friend. I'd recommend a "repaste" with PTM7950 also if you don't do that already, that stuff is magic.

 

[Skifi28]

Yeah, after a few months PC catches up and beats it again. This is how it always goes.

There's nothing to catch up to, PC hardware is already leaps and bound better than the pro. The issues unfortunately lie much deeper and a new 2k GPU is not fixing them.

 

[jm89]

LMAO of course this thread is by XXL, THE n°1 fanboy.


And the fact that you are so obsessed with PC vs PS5 is showing that if there is one person that is insecure/uncomfortable, it's you.

It's gonna play maybe 3% of titles better (without stutter). The other 97% of games will still be better on PC (including Spider-Man 2 which is releasing soon, not too salty about that?)

Quit trying to shit on PC, enjoy your PS5 Pro which is gonna be a welcome upgrade and that's it. In short: stop acting like you are 7.

So insecure I love it.

 

[KyoZz]

So insecure I love it.

If it makes you happy to think that, go for it my friend!

 

[nani17]

 

[Seomel]

Honestly, if dd2 runs as well as they showe don pros just being low-mid 50s in towns running at visual quality close to 4k dur to pssr and medium-high settings, its already better than 90% of pc players, same for alan wake 2 as notorious examples.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

There isn't any contradiction.

It's not a direct comparison of hardware ie. saying PS5 is literally better than PC hardware. That's why I clarified the issue "has nothing to do with the hardware"

Mine was an observation that the advantages of PC hardware over the other (which I already stated up front) are being so nullified by developer incompetence that it's leading to the other providing a better experience.

Your framing was definitely a hardware comparison, even if you want to now distance yourself from it.

Regardless, there is no nullification of PC hardware advantages and I certainly have a better experience on that platform. It’s just an exciting prospect to have a console that can be at the ready should the need arrive and that’s where the Pro will shine.

 

[BlackTron]

If there's something affecting many PC games that isn't affecting their console counterparts as badly, it implies there's something about the platform that makes it more likely or more difficult to stamp out. If PC requires substantially more work than console to remedy such issues, you can't just handwave it away on "lazy developers". It means a legitimate perk of console is that it makes such problems easier to alleviate.

The benefit of consoles have always been the unified hardware to target, now that there's a much higher performing console it just makes it that much more competitive vs. PC.

 

[The Cockatrice]

You're actually celebrating that PlayStation 5 Pro might be able to play botched PC ports better? Congrats, I guess. You’re basically admitting consoles are just a safety net for developers who can't optimize their games properly.

Oh and dont get me started about your precious PSSR (which, let’s be honest, is just Sony trying to slap a shiny name on what’s already standard on PC).

If you need a console to compensate for lazy developers making bad PC ports, by all means, enjoy your overpriced box.

And please stop asking for a pro mode in EVERY thread. Nothing says "next-gen" like forcing developers to waste time optimizing their games for yet another slightly upgraded console. Instead of focusing on innovation or fixing core gameplay issues, now devs have to split their resources making sure their game works on multiple iterations of the same console. All so the PS5 Pro crowd can feel special for a hot minute.

Youre wasting your breath. This forum is filled with people who love platform warring and are genuinely happy if anything other than their precious platform, fails. Can you imagine how miserable and dumb those people must be? I feel sorry for them.

 

[Bodom78]

I find that DF Video... "Problematic"

 

[winjer]

If there's something affecting many PC games that isn't affecting their console counterparts as badly, it implies there's something about the platform that makes it more likely or more difficult to stamp out. If PC requires substantially more work than console to remedy such issues, you can't just handwave it away on "lazy developers". It means a legitimate perk of console is that it makes such problems easier to alleviate.

The benefit of consoles have always been the unified hardware to target, now that there's a much higher performing console it just makes it that much more competitive vs. PC.

Each platform has its own challenges.
But if we take a closer look at the issue with stuttering, most games with these problems are made with Unreal Engine.
Almost all UE4 games had issues with stutters, both from asset streaming and shader compilation, regardless of whether they were developed by a AAA studio or a small indie dev.
And these issues continue to be a problem with UE5, although shader compilation stutters have been minimized through automatic PSO gathering.
However, it's still very concerning that Epic continues to ignore these problems.
What is the point of adding more features if the basic functionality of the game engine is broken?
And even on consoles, UE4 and UE5 games experience stuttering and asset streaming issues. This problem is not exclusive to the PC version.
Epic needs to fix their game engine once and for all.

 

[BlackTron]

Epic needs to fix their game engine, once and for all.

They seem more concerned about fixing Apple and Google.

 

[Bojji]

PC gaming has to be the biggest tragedy in gaming. All of that power and flexibility being repeatedly outplayed by weaker hardware without egregious stuttering issues. It's just sad and developers should be ashamed.

Depends on the stutter type:

PSO stutters - shader stutters can be fixed with precompile (most games have it good right now)
traversal stutters - this one needs massive fixing for the engine or game, it also typically affect consoles too.

Of course.....

How high the PS5 Pro ranks on that list makes some PC gamers super uncomfortable.

It's pretty obvious.

Which is why they're in pretty much every PS5 Pro thread.

The PS5 Pro doesn't need to beat the highest end GPUs on PC market to be attractive, that fact it's even being compared to high end GPUs.....says everything.

And this comment from Alex is just further proof of that fact.

PS5 to high end? Since when 4070 (that Pro is still weaker compared too) is high end? It was king of mid gen. When it launched nvidia had 4070ti, 4080 and 4090 as high end.

Most recent comparison online.

DF video after the many patches:

WRONG, console version:

 

[Thief1987]

LMAO of course this thread is by XXL, THE n°1 fanboy.

Please. It's not for you to talk about fanboys

 

[Vick]

WRONG, console version:

It's all already included in the very post you quoted, with the DF follow up months after:

Consoles [showing Xbox Series] also have a little bit of traversal stutter, usually manifests with double animations frames, but here.. the game is just.. just not at all fun to play.
And loses all of that ambience and atmosphere becuase every single time you go near a door, and the game has tons of doors as that's just its design, and every single time you go near one, the game would stutter. And you could just go back and forth areas and just constantly having stutter.. oh.. it's such a shame.

By this comparison between the PS5 and PC version, you can clearly see that the PC version suffers obnoxious traversal stuttering due to Denuvo Anti-Tamper software incorporation whereas the PS5 version, however, barely stutters, and runs silky smooth 60fps at all!
In short, this proves that video game industry has to completely stop butchering PC customers by releasing an inferior PC product that's incorporated with BS Denuvo Anti-Tamper software that legitimately scans & checks to ensure you have a legit copy of the game on PC which is by far the worst business decision whatsoever!

System Spec: Intel Core i9-14900KS (5.9Ghz), RTX 4090 24GB GDDR6X Video Card

So not really sure what that "WRONG" is supposed to be about. You're however totally free to believe Alex, John and someone with a 14900KS and 4090 would lie about this for some kind of reason.
Just as you're free to believe DS stutter is an issue on PS5 as it is on PC.

 

[Bojji]

It's all already included in the very post you quoted, with the DF follow up months after:










So not really sure what that "WRONG" is supposed to be about, but you're totally free to believe Alex, John and someone with a 14900KS and 4090 would lie about this for some kind of reason.
Just as you're free to believe DS stutter is an issue on PS5 as it is on PC.

I never said it wasn't an issue on PC, it's BAD and I know it personally. But consoles aren't free from traversal stutters as some of people here believe.

 

[winjer]

They seem more concerned about fixing Apple and Google.

And this is why their store and engine are still so bad.

 

[Zathalus]

So not really sure what that "WRONG" is supposed to be about. You're however totally free to believe Alex, John and someone with a 14900KS and 4090 would lie about this for some kind of reason.
Just as you're free to believe DS stutter is an issue on PS5 as it is on PC.

Can you highlight any specific section from that video where PC has severe traversal stutter and PS5 does not? I’m not really looking to watch the intro for the twelfth time again. I do recall the PC version having quite severe stutter with the PS5 having some.

 

[KyoZz]

Please. It's not for you to talk about fanboys

Oh no, you got me! I guess I will stop playing and enjoying games from Sony and Microsoft then.

And I was happy to play SM2 this January, I guess I will skip it now

 

[OverHeat]

240fps and some stutters or 60FPS….wonder what I’m going to choose.

 

[Vick]

Can you highlight any specific section from that video where PC has severe traversal stutter and PS5 does not? I’m not really looking to watch the intro for the twelfth time again. I do recall the PC version having quite severe stutter with the PS5 having some.

Would be pretty hardcore of me to notice every single instance of stutter without being the one playing the game, but here:

5:43
6:44
6:47
7:27
8:50
10:30
10:41
10:54 (extremely severe one)
10:58-10:59
12:18 (extremely severe one)
13:13
13:43
14:41
14:46
16:06

It's just as Alex/John have described, DF managed to better show many severe ones.

Feel free to find PS5 ones, as I haven't.
Even though to be fair I wasn't always focused on that side of the screen as those incorrect RGB levels were extremely triggering as someone with hundreds of hours on the game. This is how it looks in Performance Mode on PS5:

 

[Ironman_Bad]

The most frequent source of stutters is shader compilation. The shaders aren’t caught in the caching process on PC and are compiled in real time instead, this results in a slight hitch. This happens only once, but will likely happen again if the GPU drivers are updated or the GPU is changed.

The stutters on PC are seldom due to the hardware. Even having a beast of a rig with top-tier components won’t make them go away.

Hey Gaiff remember when you basically called me stupid for saying some games could run better on ps5pro than high-end PC especially games ported to the PC from ps5

 

[Filben]

I already play the PS5 version of bad PC ports.

The microstutter in some games is so horrible and frequent that no amount of ray tracing or resolution value or raw fps performance can outweigh horrendous frame pacing and stutter issues. Because this is what pulls me out of immersion, out of the experience.

Developers PC incompetence (and lack of FULL DualSense support) is what pushes me more and more to PS5.

Of course the Pro will only improve on that.

 

[twilo99]

Imagine the whiplash you must feel from spending years stanning for the Series S to now having to say consoles need to die.

As far as consoles are concerned the xss is exactly what’s they should represent: affordable gaming.

 

[GHG]

As far as consoles are concerned the xss is exactly what’s they should represent: affordable gaming.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I was a PC gamer since a Tandy InterTAN running DeskMate. My last build before moving to Japan and eventually getting married was a 2x SLI NVIDIA 280 GTX with a watercooled and overclocked i7 920C0 in 2009, and at that time it felt like PC gaming was in an incredible place. Valve were popping out polished gems regularly. Battlefield and CoD still felt made for PC and looked stunning.

I reluctantly moved to PS4 a few years later to get away from sitting at a desk every evening and share my hobby from a sofa while being able to chat and stay engaged, and it ended up being surprisingly good.

Hearing about the state of PC gaming now, despite apparently being a growing market is sad. The last time I used Steam properly it was Battlefield 3, Portal 2, Left4Dead2, episodic Half-Life stuff at the top of the charts. It felt like a golden age that could never end.

The last time I checked the state of things a little while ago and Steam was mostly nothing but quirky indie/anime games, and big budget console ports everywhere.
On top of that, watching Alex from Digital Foundry detail the #stutterstruggle and seem genuinely emotional and upset about it made me really sad, too.

I grew up in a PC gaming era where games were made for the latest GPUs that almost any hobbyist could afford, and things like the console version of Battlefield 2 were watered down clones more than they were ports. Nowadays it seems like for big budget stuff ported to PC is lucky to get a functioning version without stuttering.

There’s no real point being made. Just a half nostalgic, half ‘get off my lawn’ whinge about a platform that I left at the perfect time but haven’t been able to return to now I do have time for a PC again.

Considering what I used to spend on PC hardware every 3-4 years back when it was my primary hobby, and considering I’ve loved digital libraries since Steam let me enter a Half-Life CD key and download it with a broken disc, a $700 discless PS5 Pro is honestly alright for where I am now.

Here’s to PS5 Pro from a nostalgic PC gamer that remembers the good times, the PC centric big budget shooters, and the top of the line GPUs that only took a third of a piss poor paycheque at most.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Yeah, this was one instance where I sincerely laughed audibly!

 

[Vick]

Zathalus

We can scrap the 5:43 as that one happens on both sides, at 5:41. Same for 16:58, even though I'm not 100% sure about the latter.

 

[MarV0]

For every silly thread like this Sony releases their games on PC a day earlier.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Of course.....

How high the PS5 Pro ranks on that list makes some PC gamers super uncomfortable.

It's pretty obvious.

Which is why they're in pretty much every PS5 Pro thread.

The PS5 Pro doesn't need to beat the highest end GPUs on PC market to be attractive, that fact it's even being compared to high end GPUs.....says everything.

And this comment from Alex is just further proof of that fact.

man shut the f up. cant even beat a 4070. the word retard has more dignity than you to be called that

I am sure the PC gamers are super scared with a mid range 3080 from 4 years ago still beating the PS5 pro... use ur remaining brain cells for something useful. go read a book or something.

 

[Gaiff]

Hey Gaiff remember when you basically called me stupid for saying some games could run better on ps5pro than high-end PC especially games ported to the PC from ps5

So that means the games are already running better on the regular PS5 with that logic.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

man shut the f up. cant even beat a 4070. the word retard has more dignity than you to be called that

I am sure the PC gamers are super scared with a mid range 3080 from 4 years ago still beating the PS5 pro... use ur remaining brain cells for something useful. go read a book or something.

This really has that “past trauma” angle attached to it. It ain’t that serious, chief.

 

[Bojji]

Zathalus

We can scrap the 5:43 as that one happens on both sides, at 5:41. Same for 16:58, even though I'm not 100% sure about the latter.

Without frame time graph this pc video is useless. Here is mine, frametime graph show where stutters happen:



It's mostly between doors or scripted sections.

 

[//DEVIL//]

This really has that “past trauma” angle attached to it. It ain’t that serious, chief.

Its not. but the level of IQ some people got here is very low its starting to become annoying.

Like I get it when someone is a fanboy. we were all at one point a fanboy of something. which is good for you whatever makes you happy and sleep happy at night. but don't post shit just to attack PC gamers or any gamers for that matter.

PC games, especially, will stomp on these little chicken nuggets. The whole PlayStation system since the PS4 is not even a mid-range PC components system. The yet to be relased PS5 pro isn't even as stong as a 3080 that was 700$ more than 4 YEARS ago. wtf and still has the audacity to talk shit?

some people just need to stfu to be honest. what the fuck is he 12 ?

 

[jm89]

If it makes you happy to think that, go for it my friend!

Your the one whose always coming into these ps5 pro/pc threads and getting all bothered

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Its not. but the level of IQ some people got here is very low its starting to become annoying.

Like I get it when someone is a fanboy. we were all at one point a fanboy of something. which is good for you whatever makes you happy and sleep happy at night. but don't post shit just to attack PC gamers or any gamers for that matter.

PC games, especially, will stomp on these little chicken nuggets. The whole PlayStation system will since the PS4 is not even a mid-range PC components system. The yet to be relased PS5 pro isn't even as stong as a 3080 that was 700$ more than 4 YEARS ago. wtf and still has the audacity to talk shit?

some people just need to stfu to be honest. what the fuck is he 12 ?

I get your point, but not the angle. If he makes you that angry, he’s either speaking truth or ruffling feathers.

I don’t take his posts as an attack on PC gamers, rather a defense of PlayStation from some PC gamers who have to constantly remind people how much better their platform is or their own PC’s specs are. I’m running a monster and don’t have to do that, for example.

 

[Gaiff]

I get your point, but not the angle. If he makes you that angry, he’s either speaking truth or ruffling feathers.

I don’t take his posts as an attack on PC gamers, rather a defense of PlayStation from some PC gamers who have to constantly remind people how much better their platform is or their own PC’s specs are. I’m running a monster and don’t have to do that, for example.

You give him way too much credit. He’s been deliberately instigating for weeks.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

You give him way too much credit. He’s been deliberately instigating for weeks.

I respect you Gaiff - one of my favorite posters here in fact (tech-savvy folks usually are), so maybe I’ve missed some of that instigating. He just always struck me as pro PlayStation and not necessarily anti-PC. Perhaps there is a little bit of vitriol from both sides! In my eyes, the Pro should be a welcomed addition to the family, because maybe, maybe, it can help elevate the development culture all around.

 

[Vick]

I get your point, but not the angle. If he makes you that angry, he’s either speaking truth or ruffling feathers.

I don’t take his posts as an attack on PC gamers, rather a defense of PlayStation from some PC gamers who have to constantly remind people how much better their platform is or their own PC’s specs are. I’m running a monster and don’t have to do that, for example.

I guess those kind of meltdowns are just the inevitable consequence of a Thread born with ill intents.

Without frame time graph this pc video is useless. Here is mine, frametime graph show where stutters happen:



It's mostly between doors or scripted sections.

I've been directly asked to find stutter though, and you supported that request with a "like".

DF already covered the game, and showcased with detailed graphs the game's situation on PC.

 

[Gaiff]

I respect you Gaiff - one of my favorite posters here in fact, so maybe I’ve missed some of that instigating. He just always struck me as Pro PlayStation and not necessarily anti PC.

Oh, I don’t think he’s necessarily anti-PC either. He probably just enjoys the chaos and laughs at all the fighting his thread creates.

 

[Bojji]

I guess those kind of meltdowns are just the inevitable consequence of a Thread born with ill intents.


I've been directly asked to find stutter though, and you supported that request with a "like".

DF already covered the game, and showcased with detailed graphs the game's situation on PC.

On a video without analytics finding stutter is not exactly scientific.

You see, I played the game in 120hz refresh rate but youtube video is 60hz, it's not 1:1 but I included frametime graph.

Dead Space is the first game on Dice engine to include assets streaming and they clearly fucked it up and quickly dropped support...

I think they will ditch this engine at some point as well.