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[Klayzer]

I'm really not looking forward to comparisons going forward. It's going to be brutal.

Camps from all sides warring.

PC fans constantly pushing how their games look better. Sony fans downplaying the clearly better raytracing etc but zooming in 300 percent to show how pisser is better than fsr 3.0

PC fans not understanding that it's a console and hammering on about how amazing their 4090 runs it. Playstation fans claiming everything against the pro is some conspiracy and finding one image of a bush to throw the arguments out of the window.

PC gamers angry that their games are stuttering on much more expensive hardware and taking it out on playstation fans when it should be aimed at Epic and the Devs.

Its going to be fucking awful.....

And I'm here for every minute of it. Because fuck it all lol

 

[clarky]

XXL I hope you are happy with yourself.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is the remake company lately, that just bought out Until Dawn Remaster of all games. Huge financial incentive in that one right?

There is more demand for this remaster for sure

Until Dawn was farmed out to a new start up developer and probably cost them very little to make and didn't sideline any of their internal projects. It also has a tie in movie being made by Sony Screen Gems and PlayStation Productions also on a short budget, and if that is even remotely successful then people will buy the remake, and it will certainly make its money back.

If the movie is tremendously successful a follow up game will be warranted.

That's how transmedia works.

If you can let me know a cheaper transmedia property than Until Dawn AND more upside please let me know. Otherwise, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Cakeboxer]

I'm really not looking forward to comparisons going forward. It's going to be brutal.

It's actually always the same. Maybe a few people neutrally interested in the technical aspects, the rest: I bought product X so the world has to be convinced that this was the only right decision.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It's actually always the same. Maybe a few people neutrally interested in the technical aspects, the rest: I bought product X so the world has to be convinced that this was the only right decision.

This is true!

 

[Zathalus]

[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that Quadro is a legacy brand and not really much of a thing now, the Tesla A2 is an AIB GPU/graphics card though that is destined for AI desktop/workstations and one of its main customers are datacenters too. Jon Peddie wouldn't need to worry about including legacy Quadro but their methodology would need to exclude the A2 from those AIB sales whatever that methodology is.

This is a little more realistic to what I thought you were saying. I was under the impression that you said nvidia sell 30-40M alone:

That puts them closer to 24M for all their GPU sales. though I'm not sure where you're getting "gaming" from in that stat. It would be all AIB GPU regardless of their intended purpose, whether that's mining, Autodesk, editing, AI or whatever. The consumer would likely be for gaming but there would be businesses making massive AIB GPU purchases too without ever touching gaming. That's for both Geforce and cards like the Tesla A2.

Yes, it appears Quadro has gone the way of the Tesla range. Tensor appears to have been discontinued as well, for professional virtualization Nvidia now has the NVIDIA RTX Ada Generation. So GeForce for gaming GPU, RTX Ada for the Professional Virtualization segment, and Nvidia A and T series for datacenters. Jon Peddie tracks desktop AIB GPUs and utilize the PCI-E interface, so GeForce and RTX Ada would fall under this bracket, but A and T series GPUs would not, because they are specifically not for desktop, but more crucially none of them have actual video out and cannot be used as regular GPUs, they are for compute workloads only.

So for Nvidia for the last 4 quarters, they shipped 32.2 million GPUs (88% market share), with 29.5 million of those being GeForce, with RTX Ada making up the rest (actually GeForce would certainly be higher as RTX Ada cards cost significantly more, so that 9% revenue slice for Professional certainly be less cards, but lets go with the smaller number for simplicity sake). AMD shipped as well so the total desktop gaming (Radeon/GeForce) brand shipped for the 4 quarters was 33.5 million in total.

As for what these GPUs are used for, Mining on RTX 4000 is hardly worth it, AI needs bandwidth and VRAM (so really only the 4090 is good for that), Businesses overwhelming go for the professional range (RTX Ada), and again the Ada series is just better for modeling. I'm sure not every single GPU goes to gaming, but considering how these cards are actually marketed and that Nvidia has the different market segment offerings its pretty clear that gaming is probably by far the majority of use cases.

Looking over the past 10 years, so end 2014 to now, almost 500 million GeForce/Radeon (so not Quadro, Tesla, Tensor, Radeon Pro, etc) GPUs were shipped. Mining had two crazes that took millions away (but tons of those get resold as gaming GPUs, after each mining dip Nvidia and AMD both had major sales slumps from the second hand market), some users use these for non gaming reasons, and a ton have probably broken over the years. That being said, it is still a colossal number of gaming GPUs. Integrated GPUs are in the billions, but I think we can all agree that almost none of that is really used for gaming.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I see you can't even take a bit of sarcasm, btw I'm not a big fan of Series S. I'm a X-boy

Yes, memory is a weakness and that's something the Pro doesn't really address since its hardly a leap over the PS5 base unit.

The PC master racer can play Alan Wake 2 at 60 FPS 4K with full Rayracying, the Pro can handle that.

I can take sarcasm. Yours just sucks

The Alan Wake 2 stuff, I’m aware. I own it. Thus? It’s irrelevant. DF said nothing wrong. Bottom line.

 

[Toots]

I'm a X-boy

It's a videogame forum, we don't care about your sexual preferences.
(unless you're Segasexual of course)

 

[SweetTooth]

It's actually always the same. Maybe a few people neutrally interested in the technical aspects, the rest: I bought product X so the world has to be convinced that this was the only right decision.

Hell even DF is using this mentality, look Alex comments on twitter!

 

[Team Andromeda]

It's a videogame forum, we don't care about your sexual preferences.
(unless you're Segasexual of course)

I bang Sonic the Hedgehog and hit direct-X all the time. Not for fat Italian plumbers though.

I can take sarcasm. Yours just sucks

The Alan Wake 2 stuff, I’m aware. I own it. Thus? It’s irrelevant. DF said nothing wrong. Bottom line.

Better than your vacations. So then the PS5 Pro is hardly going to beat the Master Race if it can't handle the likes of Alan Wake 2 at 60 FPS with full Rays. Sure they'll be the odd Pro game that will run better but even a base PS4 could outdo a PC for ' 'some' games like Batman. The Master Race can brute force their way through most games and not even your SONY is going to outdo Nvidia for graphics and upscaling

 

[Toots]

The Master Race can brute force their way through most games and not even your SONY is going to outdo Nvidia for graphics and upscaling

Wait until they introduce weight class in the console wars.
PS5 pro will be the pound for pound GOAT as soon as they do.

But really all this coulda shoulda woulda reeks of copium and desperation, which at least is something both console and pc lovers have in common.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Wait until they introduce weight class in the console wars.
PS5 pro will be the pound for pound GOAT as soon as they do.

But really all this coulda shoulda woulda reeks of copium and desperation, which at least is something both console and pc lovers have in common.

I don't think it's fair to compare a PC to a console myself. PC 5 Pro should just be compared to the consoles and what jump it offers over the base Xbox Series X or PS5

But for DF to try and imply that the Pro could be better than the PC is for the birds

 

[Bojji]

Regular PS5 is already in trash category where even fucking ants game is 30fps locked on it, just like series S.

I love how developers forgot where 99% of their consumers are and want to do positive interviews about Sony new console. At the same time not even implementing PSSR.

 

[Vick]

not even your SONY is going to outdo Nvidia for graphics and upscaling

They're in a good place at the moment however, future of AI upscaling on both Consoles and AMD is looking very promising.

Since someone in the previous page called for x300 zoom pictures and bushes:

For the time being DLSS surely has a stability advantage, and looks like it could be producing sharper results. But when it comes to the latter it's hard to tell for sure because sharpness setting in Ratchet don't match, and AW2 pictures are sourced differently.
On the other hand PSSR would appear to better handle aliasing, and has a more convicing fur rendering along with, in some ways, vegetation.

Here a DLAA shot showing the missing branches with DLSS are supposed to be there.

While the above fur shots are not direct comparisons with DLSS, it's currently impossible on PC to get rid of this kind of dithered fur edges PSSR is resolving.

Credit to M MazingerDUDE for most of these comparison shots.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I bang Sonic the Hedgehog and hit direct-X all the time. Not for fat Italian plumbers though.


Better than your vacations. So then the PS5 Pro is hardly going to beat the Master Race if it can't handle the likes of Alan Wake 2 at 60 FPS with full Rays. Sure they'll be the odd Pro game that will run better but even a base PS4 could outdo a PC for ' 'some' games like Batman. The Master Race can brute force their way through most games and not even your SONY is going to outdo Nvidia for graphics and upscaling

“Better than your vacations”. “Your Sony”.

You sound like a 5-year-old.

In any case, nobody said anything about the Pro “beating the master race” and it’s anyone’s guess why you’re floundering about because DF said the Pro may be a good substitute for bad PC ports. Why does it bother you so much?

 

[Bojji]

They're in a good place at the moment however, future of AI upscaling on both Consoles and AMD is looking very promising.

Since someone in the previous page called for x300 zoom pictures and bushes:

For the time being DLSS surely has a stability advantage, and looks like it could be producing sharper results. But when it comes to the latter it's hard to tell for sure because sharpness setting in Ratchet don't match, and AW2 pictures are sourced differently.
On the other hand PSSR would appear to better handle aliasing, and has a more convicing fur rendering along with, in some ways, vegetation.

Here a DLAA shot showing the missing branches with DLSS are supposed to be there.

While the above fur shots are not direct comparisons with DLSS, it's currently impossible on PC to get rid of this kind of dithered fur edges PSSR is resolving.

Credit to M MazingerDUDE for most of these comparison shots.

Unsuitability of PSSR is very apparent..

 

[digdug2]

I bang Sonic the Hedgehog and hit direct-X all the time. Not for fat Italian plumbers though.


Better than your vacations. So then the PS5 Pro is hardly going to beat the Master Race if it can't handle the likes of Alan Wake 2 at 60 FPS with full Rays. Sure they'll be the odd Pro game that will run better but even a base PS4 could outdo a PC for ' 'some' games like Batman. The Master Race can brute force their way through most games and not even your SONY is going to outdo Nvidia for graphics and upscaling

Anyone in this thread is kidding themselves if they truly believe that the PS5 Pro is going to beat a PC with double the ram and a RTX4080. As you said, you are brute forcing it and oftentimes paying ridiculously good money to do so. There is no world where a PS5 Pro will outpower a PC built by someone wanting the best experience.

Alan Wake 2 is one of the first games to use PSSR. Developers will figure out better ways to harness it, and efficiency and performance will improve. For a $700 machine that's going to do it "good enough" for many, that's where the value lies.

 

[winjer]

Unsuitability of PSSR is very apparent..

That shimmering o PSSR is very reminiscent of what I have seen with FSR3.1.1

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Anyone in this thread is kidding themselves if they truly believe that the PS5 Pro is going to beat a PC with double the ram and a RTX4080. As you said, you are brute forcing it and oftentimes paying ridiculously good money to do so. There is no world where a PS5 Pro will outpower a PC built by someone wanting the best experience.

Alan Wake 2 is one of the first games to use PSSR. Developers will figure out better ways to harness it, and efficiency and performance will improve. For a $700 machine that's going to do it "good enough" for many, that's where the value lies.

Exactly. However, read closely. No one said the Pro was better than a capable PC. It’s faux outrage because DF is highly respected and he’s fighting that. A temper tantrum, ultimately.

 

[digdug2]

Unsuitability of PSSR is very apparent..

 

[digdug2]

Exactly. However, read closely. No one said the Pro was better than a capable PC. It’s faux outrage because DF is highly respected and he’s fighting that. A temper tantrum, ultimately.

Right. No one actually believes that a PS5 Pro will ever edge out a capable PC that's been purpose-built for one main goal: playing high performance games at the best possible resolution and frame rate.

The temper tantrum may be warranted though, because the PS5 Pro will do most likely wind up doing it "good enough" that some will actually question whether or not going all in on a high dollar PC is actually worth it.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

It's nice to see dlss get some real competition is my takeaway. The rising tide lifts all boats. I bet when the 5000 series of gfx cards come out they also release a big dlss update and then it's off to the races.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It's nice to see dlss get some real competition is my takeaway. The rising tide lifts all boats. I bet when the 5000 series of gfx cards come out they also release a big dlss update and then it's off to the races.

This was my takeaway! Good to see it getting some seriously legitimate comp. Can only be a good thing!

 

[digdug2]

It's nice to see dlss get some real competition is my takeaway. The rising tide lifts all boats. I bet when the 5000 series of gfx cards come out they also release a big dlss update and then it's off to the races.

Absolutely this. Competition is a key driver of innovation and this is proof of it.

One day, I have a feeling that the tech will be so good that they'll be able to extrapolate a high detail 4K picture out of a 480p starting image and (most) people won't be able to see the difference. And that's where it will actually get interesting.

I'm excited to see what the 5000 series can do, but I'm not excited to see the price tag.

 

[MikeM]

Right. No one actually believes that a PS5 Pro will ever edge out a capable PC that's been purpose-built for one main goal: playing high performance games at the best possible resolution and frame rate.

The temper tantrum may be warranted though, because the PS5 Pro will do most likely wind up doing it "good enough" that some will actually question whether or not going all in on a high dollar PC is actually worth it.

Problem is that, as GPU prices rise gen on gen, it can make even a Pro good value.

As someone with a 7900xt PC and a Pro on preorder- if the Pro brings me 80% of my PC in image quality at 60fps, then PS6 may go back to being my platform of choice considering what the cost of RDNA5/rtx 6000 series will be.

 

[Vick]

Unsuitability of PSSR is very apparent..

I understand this necessarily needs to be a war of some kind, but that particular instance isn't indicative of general PSSR stability.
This is how disastrous that exact portion looked originally:

(Time-Stamped)



As it was claimed in the DF AI upscaling comparison video, all these places are deliberate stress-test Alex asked Rich to record.

 

[digdug2]

Problem is that, as GPU prices rise gen on gen, it can make even a Pro good value.

As someone with a 7900xt PC and a Pro on preorder- if the Pro brings me 80% of my PC in image quality at 60fps, then PS6 may go back to being my platform of choice considering what the cost of RDNA5/rtx 6000 series will be.

That 80% image quality is exactly what I mean when I say "good enough".

It's almost like comparing a 2025 GR Supra 3.0 to a Corvette C8. They are both enthusiast products that the average consumer would call "too expensive" and I already know that the Corvette is going to win every single time when out on the track. But I will take the Supra because I consider it good enough performance for value.

 

[Bojji]

I understand this necessarily needs to be a war of some kind, but that particular instance isn't indicative of general PSSR stability.
This is how disastrous that exact portion looked originally:

(Time-Stamped)



As it was claimed in the DF AI upscaling comparison video, all these places are deliberate stress-test Alex asked Rich to record.

I mean you bringed dlss and pssr comparisons to this thread. In the end when it comes to stability nothing comes close to dlss.

 

[Vick]

I mean you bringed dlss and pssr comparisons to this thread.

I thought I was simply responding to a very specific statement regarding this subject?

In the end when it comes to stability nothing comes close to dlss.

And this is how the post you quoted started:

For the time being DLSS surely has a stability advantage, and looks like it could be producing sharper results.

 

[FrankWza]

“Better than your vacations”. “Your Sony”.

You sound like a 5-year-old.

In any case, nobody said anything about the Pro “beating the master race” and it’s anyone’s guess why you’re floundering about because DF said the Pro may be a good substitute for bad PC ports. Why does it bother you so much?

I'm looking forward to the Pro OT. Leave the butthurt for the head to head or topics like this.

 

[Bojji]

I thought I was simply responding to a very specific statement regarding this subject?


And this is how the post you quoted started:

Just as I said few times now. For first public appearance pssr is great, probably better than xess. It even has some things that it does better than dlss (on still images at least).

So yeah, tech is there. We will see what developers will deliver (or not).

 

[PandaOk]

Regular PS5 is already in trash category where even fucking ants game is 30fps locked on it, just like series S.

I love how developers forgot where 99% of their consumers are and want to do positive interviews about Sony new console. At the same time not even implementing PSSR.

This is a take

Do you think devs do that on PC with minimum specs (when the experience within that class often fall well below what the experience would be polish and perf wise on a base PS5 compared to the Pro? PS5 tends to land around medium settings range on PC)

No one is forgetting where 99% of their customers are or suddenly relegating the base PS5 to trash tier. Base is still more than good enough.

Base Console
Native 4K
Unreal Engine 5.4
Smaller developer
Smaller budget
Large numbers of insects on screen
Large scale battles
PSSR came too late in their development window to implement
Show some respect for the devs man!

(stay until the end: should load from 4m46s)


If this game of all games is only 30 FPS on base PS5 it really does highlight how the changes for Pro more than address speculative CPU concerns.

 

[Three]

Unsuitability of PSSR is very apparent..

I wonder what trickery DLSS uses for stabilisation because it seems to have removed the moving light on the crate completely (that is an actual effect in the game and not image instability). I suspect it thinks it's image instability when it isn't.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Gears E Day, the next Halo UE5 project, and any other MS game will be played on my beast PC. Not a “pro” console.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Gears E Day, the next Halo UE5 project, and any other MS game will be played on my beast PC. Not a “pro” console.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Regular PS5 is already in trash category where even fucking ants game is 30fps locked on it, just like series S.

I love how developers forgot where 99% of their consumers are and want to do positive interviews about Sony new console. At the same time not even implementing PSSR.

That right there is the disconnect from every day folks and enthusiasts. Holy crap, I'm so glad I don't participate in this nonsensical flex among tech nerds.

 

[PandaOk]

I wonder what trickery DLSS uses for stabilisation because it seems to have removed the moving light on the crate completely (that is an actual effect in the game and not image instability). I suspect it thinks it's image instability when it isn't.

Keeping in mind that we’re on release 1 of PSSR, I wonder if this yet to be solved ‘swimming look’ for Ratchet is the real reason it went without a sharpening pass. I don’t think it’s something mentioned in other games so far, but a sharpening pass on ratchet would exacerbate the effect. Hopefully they have it solved before or shortly after release, but it might not be visible at typical viewing distances. Guess we’ll find out!

 

[Crayon]

Im happy to see the transition from ps v xbox to ps v pc is going so smoothly.

 

[bitbydeath]

That right there is the disconnect from every day folks and enthusiasts. Holy crap, I'm so glad I don't participate in this nonsensical flex among tech nerds.

Disgruntled Xbox fans having to move to PC and want to continue “the war”.

It is embarrassing to see. Consoles and PC are completely different systems.

 

[octos]

I wonder what trickery DLSS uses for stabilisation because it seems to have removed the moving light on the crate completely (that is an actual effect in the game and not image instability). I suspect it thinks it's image instability when it isn't.

DLSS is using more of the previous frames data to recreate the current frame it seems.
This is why there is better stability, and also why the light animation is almost gone.
It's a trade-off.

PSSR seems to have better aliasing resolving than DLSS, but worse temporal stability. I'd expect a few patches to change that balance a bit.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Can't wait for my PS5 Pro. Non pro buyers are so mad and hateful!

We don't buy the pro for graphics really. You already know the real reason, right? Let's not tip toe around dominance. We control this market. Now it's time to steer it in the right direction. Our direction. Gotta pay to play. Before you say it, I have a gaming PC too. I have everything gaming "too," just about. Me buying this shit and not a modern audience is why you get rare incel wins. It prolly ain't large gaming groups who are notorious for pirating and buying software as cheaply as humanly possible while giving NVIDIA all their gaming hobby money, nope, it's us. It's us. You're welcome. Last fight I had with a PC only gamer the guy told me he would "never pay full price for a remake." I can't remember if I'm on my 3rd or 4th full priced game this month, DBZ, Metaphor, Silent Hill 2, 3 games. We'll make sure the right games keep coming out, save your money, we got this.

 

[Spitfire098]

Gears E Day, the next Halo UE5 project, and any other MS game will be played on my beast PC. Not a “pro” console.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

made these gifs out of the latest df clip

PS5 PRO is noticeably sharper than PS5 Quality 30fps mode

pay attention to Tifa's hair, also the ghosting had been significantly reduced

with introduction of temporal AA solutions, it just became norm to have screen blurred whenever in motion

with PSSR the screen blur has been kept to minimal

PS5 PRO in motion is even slightly sharper than PS5 Quality mode in still

 

[Closer]

It's wild to me that people aren't taking inflation into account. The inflation rate between 2017 and now is 28%.

Edit: Where I'm going with this is that PS5 Pro would have cost $503.28 in 2017 when you account for inflation. People would have been all about a console like this for that price point 7 years ago.

Edit 2 - Electric Boogaloo: The inflation rate between 2013 and now is 35%, meaning OG PS4 would cost $541.13 today.

Eff me, here's edit #3: The 20GB PS3 at launch would have cost $780.82 in today's money. 60GB = $934.44 (56%)

Nice. Now do a salary comparison and buy Power.

 

[digdug2]

Nice. Now do a salary comparison and buy Power.

I get what you're saying but there's no point, really. We already know that for many people, life is getting more and more expensive by the day.

 

[Closer]

I get what you're saying but there's no point, really. We already know that for many people, life is getting more and more expensive by the day.

Yeah, because "Let's adjust for inflafion" never really adds buy power to the equation. They only "Let's pretend this is what it was back then and what you'd pay now and keep everything else the same". That's not how it really works.

 

[digdug2]

Yeah, because "Let's adjust for inflafion" never really adds buy power to the equation. They only "Let's pretend this is what it was back then and what you'd pay now and keep everything else the same". That's not how it really works.

I'm a grown adult with a career and a mortgage. I'm well aware of how it works.

 

[Closer]

I'm a grown adult with a career and a mortgage. I'm well aware of how it works.

So aware that you didn't add that to your original post. Cute.

 

[digdug2]

So aware that you didn't add that to your original post. Cute.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Can't wait for my PS5 Pro. Non pro buyers are so mad and hateful!

We don't buy the pro for graphics really. You already know the real reason, right? Let's not tip toe around dominance. We control this market. Now it's time to steer it in the right direction. Our direction. Gotta pay to play. Before you say it, I have a gaming PC too. I have everything gaming "too," just about. Me buying this shit and not a modern audience is why you get rare incel wins. It prolly ain't large gaming groups who are notorious for pirating and buying software as cheaply as humanly possible while giving NVIDIA all their gaming hobby money, nope, it's us. It's us. You're welcome. Last fight I had with a PC only gamer the guy told me he would "never pay full price for a remake." I can't remember if I'm on my 3rd or 4th full priced game this month, DBZ, Metaphor, Silent Hill 2, 3 games. We'll make sure the right games keep coming out, save your money, we got this.

This is satire, right? Fucking hell I'm in bits. You got me good.