Woah sick dude. What school do you go to?
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PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale |OT| Use Supers to Smash your Bros!
- Thread starter TheMink
- Start date
Woah sick dude. What school do you go to?
Yo, when can we expect any new info on DLC?
Napalm_Frank
Member
Since I've been doing these posts on how characters and balance can be improved, I figured I might as well do one on Sackboy. I felt like my previous posts were mainly just me whining about why a character sucked, so I tried to do a little more research with this.
Sackboy, as he is now, just doesn't mesh with descriptions of him before PSAS's release. In an IGN intereview, Omar Kendall stated that "he really wants to be as far away from you as possible at all times, even more so than Radec." (1:11 in the video) However, consider his options when he is far away from you: he has Jam Session, which now gives you a tiny 10 AP, and he has Cakeinator, which gives him 20 AP. This is literally all he can do if he is far away. His Jetpack used to be a good crowd-clearing long range option when his fan could send him flying across the stage (at 0:44), but the fan was nerfed before release and it now only meaningfully affects his projectiles. Compare this to Radec, who has a stage-spanning sniper rifle that gives him 30 AP on each hit - 5 shots with it will give him a Level 1 that can also hit opponents from across the map. Clearly Sackboy is no longer a threat as a long range character.
So what is he then? Though his shockpad and cake are good traps to use up close, and he has some good combos, against more than one person his limited melee skills and inability to fight off multiple opponents become apparent. Thus Sackboy has instead become a "hit-and-run" character, one that gets his licks in, dashes out to throw a few cakes, and then rushes in the fray again when things die down. This actually suits him well, and fits the character. However, as we've all learned from characters like Nariko, Sir Dan, and Spike, it's not the moveset that makes the (wo)man, but the supers.
Pre-patch, these were Sackboy's AP requirements:
Level 1 Super - 100 AP
Level 2 Super - 325 AP
Level 3 Super - 600 AP
This is fairly balanced - his Level 3 is able to get roughly 6 kills in FFA and 4-5 in 2v2, so the amount of AP used getting his Level 3 could also be used getting 6 well-placed Level 1's or 2 Level 2's. However, take a look at his AP gain after the patch:
Level 1 Super - 150 AP
Level 2 Super - 400 AP
Level 3 Super - 750 AP
Do you see how they messed him up? If so, you understand basic math! If not, take a look at this:
Possible Kills at 750 AP:
Level 1 - 5 Kills (This is assuming single kills only, since Sackboy's Level 1 will almost never hit more than one person)
Level 2 - 2-3 Kills
Level 3 - 4-6 Kills
Note that getting 6 kills at 750 AP requires either landing at least one double kill with his 5 Level 1's, or using his Level 3. According to my friend Juptile (the highest ranked Sackboy in 2v2) it takes a little over 2 minutes for Sackboy to get 750 AP under good conditions (aka not getting hit by repeated grabs, meter stealing items, hazards, etc.) so this means that to get the max amount kills in a 3 minute match he is pretty much forced to use Level 3 and a Level 1 or land multiple Level 1's - of which the former is far easier to do than the latter. His Level 2 is simply no longer an option since it uses too much AP.
So we now know that his supers are unbalanced thanks to the AP changes, but why were those changes required in the first place? Because for some reason, Superbot BUFFED Sackboy's Level 3 before release. As seen in his official trailer (at 1:00), Sackboy's Level 3 used to get 3 kills max in FFA (and presumably 2 in 2v2) since opponents wouldn't respawn in bubbles. This was likely done because Sackboy was able to get some AP back from bubbles before killing his opponents, unlike every other Level 3. However, now he can kill opponents from 2-3 times depending on their distance from him when he activates the super. Why was this change made? Perhaps Superbot felt that only 2-3 max kills wasn't good enough for a Level 3 super, although why they would think this and leave Sir Dan's horrible Level 3 unchanged is beyond me.
So: because of all these changes, Sackboy has essentially become an "all-or-nothing" character who is required to use his Level 3 to win a match. This, to me, is a problem, as all of a character's supers should be viable tools to win a match, and as of now Sackboy's Level 2 is useless and his Level 1 takes an extreme amount of skill to win with. To fix Sackboy, it is really a very simple task. Give him back his old AP gain for projectiles and his old AP requirements, because they weren't the problem. His fan can stay nerfed, no one really needs it anyways, but his Level 3 needs to go back to its old prerelease state - getting 6 kills AND almost enough meter for a Level 1 is just too much power for one super.
Sackboy, as he is now, just doesn't mesh with descriptions of him before PSAS's release. In an IGN intereview, Omar Kendall stated that "he really wants to be as far away from you as possible at all times, even more so than Radec." (1:11 in the video) However, consider his options when he is far away from you: he has Jam Session, which now gives you a tiny 10 AP, and he has Cakeinator, which gives him 20 AP. This is literally all he can do if he is far away. His Jetpack used to be a good crowd-clearing long range option when his fan could send him flying across the stage (at 0:44), but the fan was nerfed before release and it now only meaningfully affects his projectiles. Compare this to Radec, who has a stage-spanning sniper rifle that gives him 30 AP on each hit - 5 shots with it will give him a Level 1 that can also hit opponents from across the map. Clearly Sackboy is no longer a threat as a long range character.
So what is he then? Though his shockpad and cake are good traps to use up close, and he has some good combos, against more than one person his limited melee skills and inability to fight off multiple opponents become apparent. Thus Sackboy has instead become a "hit-and-run" character, one that gets his licks in, dashes out to throw a few cakes, and then rushes in the fray again when things die down. This actually suits him well, and fits the character. However, as we've all learned from characters like Nariko, Sir Dan, and Spike, it's not the moveset that makes the (wo)man, but the supers.
Pre-patch, these were Sackboy's AP requirements:
Level 1 Super - 100 AP
Level 2 Super - 325 AP
Level 3 Super - 600 AP
This is fairly balanced - his Level 3 is able to get roughly 6 kills in FFA and 4-5 in 2v2, so the amount of AP used getting his Level 3 could also be used getting 6 well-placed Level 1's or 2 Level 2's. However, take a look at his AP gain after the patch:
Level 1 Super - 150 AP
Level 2 Super - 400 AP
Level 3 Super - 750 AP
Do you see how they messed him up? If so, you understand basic math! If not, take a look at this:
Possible Kills at 750 AP:
Level 1 - 5 Kills (This is assuming single kills only, since Sackboy's Level 1 will almost never hit more than one person)
Level 2 - 2-3 Kills
Level 3 - 4-6 Kills
Note that getting 6 kills at 750 AP requires either landing at least one double kill with his 5 Level 1's, or using his Level 3. According to my friend Juptile (the highest ranked Sackboy in 2v2) it takes a little over 2 minutes for Sackboy to get 750 AP under good conditions (aka not getting hit by repeated grabs, meter stealing items, hazards, etc.) so this means that to get the max amount kills in a 3 minute match he is pretty much forced to use Level 3 and a Level 1 or land multiple Level 1's - of which the former is far easier to do than the latter. His Level 2 is simply no longer an option since it uses too much AP.
So we now know that his supers are unbalanced thanks to the AP changes, but why were those changes required in the first place? Because for some reason, Superbot BUFFED Sackboy's Level 3 before release. As seen in his official trailer (at 1:00), Sackboy's Level 3 used to get 3 kills max in FFA (and presumably 2 in 2v2) since opponents wouldn't respawn in bubbles. This was likely done because Sackboy was able to get some AP back from bubbles before killing his opponents, unlike every other Level 3. However, now he can kill opponents from 2-3 times depending on their distance from him when he activates the super. Why was this change made? Perhaps Superbot felt that only 2-3 max kills wasn't good enough for a Level 3 super, although why they would think this and leave Sir Dan's horrible Level 3 unchanged is beyond me.
So: because of all these changes, Sackboy has essentially become an "all-or-nothing" character who is required to use his Level 3 to win a match. This, to me, is a problem, as all of a character's supers should be viable tools to win a match, and as of now Sackboy's Level 2 is useless and his Level 1 takes an extreme amount of skill to win with. To fix Sackboy, it is really a very simple task. Give him back his old AP gain for projectiles and his old AP requirements, because they weren't the problem. His fan can stay nerfed, no one really needs it anyways, but his Level 3 needs to go back to its old prerelease state - getting 6 kills AND almost enough meter for a Level 1 is just too much power for one super.
Looking at tomorrow regarding new info. Keep your eyes peeled O.O
cool_trainer
Member
Will you be at WNF tonight? If so I'll see you there!
Oh praise the sun!
xKilltheMx
Member
this.
I was just thinking about new news on this game. Still playing, still the best at my school so far, still fun.
yeah ill be there tonight to BUST SOME DUDES UP IN SOME VIDEOGAMES
A school here in L.A. Lot of fanatics here at my school that love the game. After school many come just to play it.
Thanks to those who wished me luck! Hopefully my Drake can take them on!
Coolbgdog12
Member
It's probably going to say how the DLC is coming out soon in a few more weeks.
Aw that's awesome. Which school, if you don't mind me asking? I'd love to pay a visit sometime and maybe bring some goodies. (you can PM me if you want!) Also, you should tell your classmates to come check out SCR this weekend at UCI, SuperBot will be there in full effect!
Edit: BTW, did you guys see this WILD Cole combo video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nap_ilO7aoE The guy who designed Cole has watched it at least a dozen times already haha
Camjo-Z makes a very good point on Sackboy. Nerf his level 3. No respawning in bubbles.
Oh hell yes.
Oh hell yes.
This is most exciting. On my birthday no less.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
They're rivals with each other.
soxinthebox
Member
just got the game in the past week which seems like a great time to be jumping in with 2 confirmed characters coming and hopefully a couple more to be announced.
Tried playing online last night (Vita) but couldn't find a game - how long do you guys usually have to wait to find one and is that for ranked or unranked?
Tried playing online last night (Vita) but couldn't find a game - how long do you guys usually have to wait to find one and is that for ranked or unranked?
ScraftyDevil
Banned
They're rivals with each other.
I thought some press surrounding their release stated otherwise. I'll take your word for it, though.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012...d-new-level-revealed/comment-page-2/#comments
Their rivalry doesn't make a ton of sense, but I suppose that's not a big deal.
soxinthebox
Member
Who do you guys think would be realistic choices for future DLC characters?
I think Abe or Stranger have to be coming but I have no idea who they'd bother with outside of that. Maybe Isaac from Dead Space could get in there with the new game coming out soon.
I think Abe or Stranger have to be coming but I have no idea who they'd bother with outside of that. Maybe Isaac from Dead Space could get in there with the new game coming out soon.
soxinthebox
Member
Hadn't thought of the assassins but that would work well.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Don't forget Teddie!
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Awesome! New informations TMW. Can't Wait.
I bet that it will be about Kat and Emmett. I would be surprise if they announce more characters.
I bet that it will be about Kat and Emmett. I would be surprise if they announce more characters.
Same here. It'd be a shock if they announced another pair of characters prior to the launch of Kat & Emmett.
Coolbgdog12
Member
Wow this game sounds better with headphones on my Vita than on my PS3 on my surround sound.
Coolbgdog12
Member
Man if they announce two characters tomorrow that'd be amazing. I personally am expecting some fixes to the online, tweaks and DLC release info tmrw. I'd probably flip in the air if they announced Crash is coming(I'm still hurt.)
Quite a few things that need to be fixed
- The Announced Raiden, Drake, and Kratos nerfs need to come, Raiden is a MUST.
- The party system needs to be fixd... I haven't seen anybody complaining about this, but does anybody else have to reinvite their partner every other round sometimes multiple rounds in a row?
- Different character glitch still happens
- Punishment for quitting
- Random level glitches, seen a few of these. Started up Loco Roco once and a million loco rocos just kept pouring out until my ps3 froze, was pretty funny nonetheless.
- Fix the infinites, pain in the ass.
Yes, yes, and yes.
The Grim Heaper
Member
So, news today?
Hopefully they added Sly to the nerf list, if the other three top characters get nerfed and he's left alone I suspect he'll quickly dominate the game. And yes, I've had the party problem as well.
Also quitting wouldn't be quite so annoying if it weren't for the fact that sometimes you'll lose BP if your OPPONENT is the one who quits! IDK if they should really instate a punishment in unranked since even I've quit stock matches after watching them go on for 8+ minutes after my death (the solution there would be to add a timer to stock), but there's no excuse in ranked. Make quitters lose double the amount of BP they would have lost had they finished the match.
cool_trainer
Member
Oh snap. Can't wait.
cool_trainer
Member
Here's the blog post for them: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013...-the-battle-february-12th-free-for-two-weeks/
I thought the stage was free and included with the characters, unless I was mistaken. Or reading wrong
I actually think Emmett's trailer shows the differences between him and guys like Sweet Tooth or Radec, he's comfortable at long range but he has no problem getting in close and doing damage.
I thought so too, a little misleading. I'm not opposed to paying for it when they're giving us Kat and Emmett free though.
I think the most important thing to take away from the blog post is this:
Come on, Robbit!
I thought so too, a little misleading. I'm not opposed to paying for it when they're giving us Kat and Emmett free though.
I think the most important thing to take away from the blog post is this:
Come on, Robbit!
cool_trainer
Member
Oh yeah I guess I don't mind so much, I can't complain about free characters.
Their move sets are on the official site.
8 more characters pls. =D
