PlayStation has also announced that Zero Dawn has sold over 20 million copies
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
A bit of common sense goes a long way
El Pistolero
Banned
Well, I never would have thought they would reach such numbers, but here we are! I guess I should have seen it coming with how popular the universe has gotten (cosplay, YT streaming, comics...), but 20 millions for a new IP is exceptional. Taking the L here...
yurinka
Member
No, doesn't include free copies given away or included in PS Plus or PS Now. Sold units are sold units.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
You've already been proven wrong don't be doubling down on this nonsense
Last edited:
There is nothing proven so far. Just some random comments from random internet guys and most of them are just fanboys who don't know how the market works, just how they want to see their game "winning".
Thirty7ven
Banned
There is nothing proven so far. Just some random comments from random internet guys and most of them are just fanboys who don't know how the market works, just how they want to see their game "winning".
You're just spreading lies, and you clearly must have a reason for it, an agenda as the kids say. Either way, reported and ignored.
Last edited:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
I mean...do you have actual proof that PS Plus numbers are included as sales?
Think very carefully about that mind you, that means all games given for free on PS Plus = "sales", but look at how many games have been given away on the platform, how come those other titles are not recording record "sales" regarding this?
Shouldn't basically every PS Plus game given be at 20 million plus units or something?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Companies make distinction between "played by x amount of players" and "sold x amount of copies".
There's no honest discussion here, Microsoft didn't went out there and say Halo Infinite sold 22 million copies, yet that's what this boy is trying force feed us.
He's just another lying fanboy on the internet.
There's no honest discussion here, Microsoft didn't went out there and say Halo Infinite sold 22 million copies, yet that's what this boy is trying force feed us.
He's just another lying fanboy on the internet.
No, he didn't state that. Halo never sold 22m copies. Gamepass make it much harder to get reliable numbers. But those are not "sold" licenses just "lend".
Also it is not possible to guess how many customers are really there from playtime numbers. As those numbers are also a bit washed out by multiple people that play with the same copy/license (same household, lend to somebody, resold, ...).
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Lmao you think MS can't track how many users are playing Halo through gamepass?
Last edited:
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
There is nothing proven so far. Just some random comments from random internet guys and most of them are just fanboys who don't know how the market works, just how they want to see their game "winning".
Horizon Zero Dawn had 20.6m players back in August 2020.
This was before the PC release.
Sony announced that Horizon Zero Dawn has OFFICIALLY sold over 20 million copies as of Feb 2022.
Sell-through numbers do not include copies that were given away.
Stop making up bogus claims.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Last edited:
John Wick
Member
So which games have sold more than 20 million on the Switch or Wii U?
I bet most are established franchises decades old.
Mr Moose
Member
There is nothing proven so far. Just some random comments from random internet guys and most of them are just fanboys who don't know how the market works, just how they want to see their game "winning".
What's your definition of sold-through? Given away free?
November 28th 2021.
Last edited:
John Wick
Member
I didn't realise Sony was a random guy on the internet
Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
And why you care so much to prove that this game didn't do 20m sales? You blame the other guy that he is trying to just feel good that his game is winning while you are here trying to make you feel good by downplaying it. Stop smelling your own fart it's not good.There is nothing proven so far. Just some random comments from random internet guys and most of them are just fanboys who don't know how the market works, just how they want to see their game "winning".
John Wick
Member
They
Gran Turismo 7 will do insane numbers. It will also have legs.
John Wick
Member
You can't really compare to Nintendo for two simple reasons. Not downplaying Nintendo as their games are fantastic.
The big sellers on Nintendo are decades old beloved franchises. They are far more established fact.
Nintendo has no real 3rd party competitors on its platforms. No big 3rd party juggernauts like GTA, RDR or CoD. So the focus is on Nintendo IP.
yurinka
Member
These IPs already have 20M sellers and some a couple of them or in track to have a couple of them:
-Destiny
-Spider-Man
-God of War
-Uncharted
-The Last of Us
-Horizon
We also have to consider that in addition this people who bought them, there's additional people who played them on free giveaways, PS Plus, PS Plus Collection or PS Now. So are also potential customers for sequels.
There is also these ones I think are on track or have potential to give Sony other 20M+ seller games for other 7-10+ IPs this generation:
-Ghost of Tsushima (once it gets more time to sell on PS and later on PC, or maybe with its sequel)
-Gran Turismo (Sports is at 15M but fans complained that it lacked things that are coming in GT7, so very likely GT7 will achieve >20M specially if ends on PC)
-At least two Bungie IPs should be released in a few years, looking at Halo and Destiny I assume at least one of them will sell 20M+
-At least one of the new IPs coming from Deviation, Firewalk, Haven could sell 20M+
-Potential new IPs from Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla or Insomniac for this gen could get 20M too, at least one or two of them
-All Sony teams are growing a lot hiring talented and experienced people so studios that were smaller/2nd tier before now are working on bigger AAA new IPs so even if more unlikely, who knows if at least one of them gets 20M seller from new IPs coming from Bend Studio (Days Gone pretty likely already is 10M+ or close), Firesprite, London Studio, Pixel Opus, Bluepoint or Housemarque. Who knows, I think it's very unlikely but maybe even Team Asobi can make a bigger, super polished platformer like Mario Odyssey and get 20M.
Regarding the comparisions with Nintendo, we have to remember that their new IPs that sold >20M are from IPs that debuted in the Wii/DS generation (casual hits like Wii Sports, Nintendogs or Brain Training, that aren't that relevant anymore) or are even older, as it's the case of the more core IPs. The current Nintendo 20M+ sellers are all from several decades old IPs.
While in Sony we see that most 20M+ sellers (or with potential to reach it soon) are from this PS4 generation or the previous one, PS3. With a few exceptitons like GoW (which was a reboot) and potentially GT, these relatively recent Sony big hits are new or relatively new IPs and in many cases coming from studios they grew and matured relatively recently, weren't that successful before. If they continue this path at the end of this generation Sony will end with way more active IPs with recent 20M seller games and with way more studios and teams working on them and ready to release more successful new IPs.
I think Sony did a giant step in the PS4 generation and now is following in this way so in the PS5 we'll continue seeing the effects of this step plus the start of the next one. Not counting possible additional benefits from movies, tv shows, VR next gen improvemnts, game subs next gen improvements, eSports/online tornaments next gen improvements, GaaS related improvements, MP related improvements and further expansions they can do in PC and mobile areas beyond of what they are doing now.
Last edited:
Tripolygon
Banned
Umm Microsoft and Sony can tell you exactly how many bullets you shot in a game from a particular gun. That is how much analytics is sent back from games that you play. But you believe they can't accurately count how many people on gamepass played a game?
Microsoft themselves don't count players on gamepass or games with gold as sales but you believe Sony counts PS Now, PS Plus games, and free games given as part of sales?
kingfey
Banned
Are you OK?
All the games you play have data.
Tripolygon
said it perfectly.They are not stupid, to not have those data. Your entire character has set of data numbers, which developers track off. It's easy for them, to get those numbers.
Last edited:
kingfey
Banned
I am sorry, but that is the dumbest thing I have heard here.
Sold copies, means customers buying the key of the game. Each copy of the game has a set of keys, like Steam keys.
Sony puts each key in a different category. Sold keys, available keys, giveaway keys. Sold keys comes from available keys. And giveaway keys comes from those available keys.
Sony generates a set of keys, which they keep track off, on their system. And each keys goes to the designated section (free, sold, available).
If Sony giveaway keys as free, it doesn't mean it will count as sales. Since those are separate keys. What will count, is the keys that have been approved for sale.
To break it down easily.
Free keys= not registered as sellable keys.
Sellable keys= registered keys, which are sold, and it will count towards sales numbers. These comes in form of disc, and digital.
Available keys= they are the keys, which haven't been assigned yet. They either use it as free keys, or Sellable keys.
Also, Sony keeps track of these keys, since they use machines to produce these keys. And these machines have special way of tracking those keys.
kingfey
Banned
Sony would have real competition this gen. During ps4, they pretty much had everything lined up in their way.
This gen is kinda different.
We also have too many variable objects, that can increase or decrease console hardwares for each system this gen. We aren't out of this shortage, and there seems to be a war brewing in Europe.
Last edited:
yurinka
Member
PS4 has as competition what is the launch aligned best selling console ever that broke some of the game industry records set by PS4. Swith passed the yearly sales peak that every console has on their sales cycle, meaning that until gets discontinued now will have a pattern where every year will sell less units than the previous one until replaced by its successor.
The last years of Switch and its successor will have more direct competition in the portables/hybrid area with Steamdeck and the PC portables, and who knows if the rumored Apple hybrid console too.
Meanwhile Microsoft continues slowly migrating their focus on gaming, from being focused on their console only as a first party, to becoming also a 3rd party in othr consoles and specially growing on mobile and PC, while also migrating their focus from selling consoles and games to subscriptions.
Meanwhile Sony has been growing in basically all their areas, and are investing hard to continue growing more but always focused on their console. So they will grow and their direct competition seems to be fragmenting. The only thing that stops them right now from achieving huge records at least in hardware sales is the chips shortage, which also affect in some form their competition.
Regarding the potential war I assume it won't end on a military conflict but instead they will solve it with diplomatic negotiations and some economic deals or sanctions. And if we aren't lucky and there's some military war, the few countries around this area don't have an important role in console production or sales.
kingfey
Banned
The ps4 come out in 2013. Switch was 2017.
The direct competition to ps4 was wii u, which come out in 2012, and failed miserably. The other one was xbox one, and we saw how that one turned out.
From 2013 to 2017, the ps4 had the free reign to make itself dominant. And when the switch come out, it was weak to challenge the ps4.
There was never a competition to it.
Steam deck can't rival the switch, since it's basically a computer. It's a niche product. Unless it takes off the ground. I doubt it will get close to switch.
Apple doesnt have the software needed for their console.
Its why the ps5 would have a challenge, added with switch eating its Japanese market. And MS doing these type of stuff, not to mention buying publishers.
The ps4 didn't have this type of competition, like the ps5. Not to mention, the chip shortage, and likely big war from one of the nato nation.
Those investments are getting eaten up slowly. The switch is stealing the Japanese studios. MS bought 2 key publishers of Sony. They need in house focus, and the output, that can make 3rd party extra sauce, like Nintendo is doing now.
They are ready for war. The US is taking out their military from Ukraine. This is not something diplomatic negotiation can fix now. The tension is an all high. It's up to Russia now.
This gen started badly. Unlike last gen, we have covid, chip shortages, publishers buy out. The old competition we used to see, doesn't exist now. All 3rd party games that used to exist on all platforms is going exclusive on other devices. Sony might buy Square, and MS might retaliate with take2.
The future is very scary now.
Last edited:
yurinka
Member
Steamdeck will start as niche, because I think it's too expensive for console gamers, I assume that Valve's production numbers will be limited, but maybe becomes bigger because the PC userbase is way bigger than the Nintendo userbase and many of them don't care about spending a ton of money on hardware. I think it will have a slow start, but over years as it becomes cheaper and other companies start releasing their PC handhelds with similar hardware their market will eat an important portion of the Nintendo one.
3rd party AAA games or indies will look/run way better in Steamdeck than in Switch and on top of that will have MS and Sony games plus emulators and the streaming platforms or game services. So people interested on this things will prefer Streamdeck and similar, so will eat that part of Switch userbase. And Switch and its successor will focus even more on Nintendo games.
Apple gaming software revenue is bigger than all (not only software) Nintendo revenue. Same goes with amount of players, games or publishers supporting them.
Japan is only 8% of Sony's market, and worldwide Sony is growing in all areas. It doesn't affect them.
Bethesda games probably sold around 50M games on PS4, less 3% of the over 1.7B games sold for PS4. CoD generates for Sony aprox. 1% of their yearly gaming division revenue. These percentages are smaller than Sony's growth in multiple areas, so even if MS would make all Bethesda and ABK games console exclusive (spoiler: they won't), Sony's growth would compensate that loss, so Sony wouldn't miss them.
This is one of the reasons of why MS wil keep most future Bethesda an ABK games full multiplatform, and at least some of these exclusives will end being timed console exclusives.
No, basically all known 3rd party Japanese companies have/will have at least a PS4 exclusive and on top of them they also publish their multiplatform games on PS. Many Japanese Switch 3rd party exclusives are timed ones so end on PS anyways, or are irrelevant small exclusives. Even if they Swittch gets some big exclusive from 3rd parties, these same 3rd parties continue supporting Sony (like Capcom or Square). Everybody keeps supporting PS, Switch isn't stealing anything.
In addiiton to the chips shortages or covid, I think there won't be important changes. Important big publishers like Bethesda, ABK or Bungie get acquired but mostly they will continue being multiplatform and same will happen if they acquire EA, Take 2, Square or Capcom. Games will be released everywhere, we'll see Sony releasing more stuff on PC and closer to release and maybe even some day we'll see Halo on PS or Switch or maybe even Uncharted on Xbox or Switch.
I think these publishers acquired will be exclusive only on the game subscriptions but not in game releases tot be bought, which will continue being the main market even if game subs will grow.
kingfey
Banned
One of the main reason why the pc platform is big, is because you as a gamer own that device. Switch doesn't have that luxury. It's just like any console. Only hardcore steam users would buy it.
Games aren't the problem.The problem, is the global market. PC is everywhere. You need to get those users the console. It's tough to do that.
Valve doesn't have that much money, compared to Nintendo, MS, and Playstation.
Mobile market. If they are going for console, it will be hard.
One of the difference between consoles and pc/mobile is the usage. Consoles are there for games. Mobile/pc is everyday uses. Everyone will buy them, unlike Consoles.
Apple would need to have software games for their new console, and partner with 3rd party publishers.
It will affect them, just like how xbox doesn't have enough Japanese games.
Sony could lose Japanese dev support, if Switch keep stealing them.
Bethesda is part of Sony revenue. 50m copies is alot of money for Sony. Not to mention, Bethesda was pillar key for their VR system.
Both Activision and Bethesda have userbase. Let's say, these have 15m user base. That is alot of people, going to other console. That is the level of damage their business would have. Losing 15m userbase to your competitors is bad. These 15m can bring you 500m to 700m a year. You don't want to lose that.
Bethesda is nope. But ABK for COD and overwatch2.
But the side effects is bad. They are essentially giving MS 70% of those revenue. Basically funding MS studios.
Not to mention the BR level of disaster. CoD would cost $70 on ps5, while xbox gets it on gamepass.
It started already. The switch has 27m consoles on Japan. That is 3x of ps4, or 27x of ps5. They would do the xbox way, and move to switch.
Publishers wants money and players. The switch can provide that for them.
The end goal is netflix model. The real effect for these publishers would start the gen after this one.
So far, we are seeing little bit here and there. Bethesda would be exclusive. But bungie and ABK is up in the air.
yurinka
Member
Considering that Steam owns a huge chunk of the PC market and knowing they don't spend a lot of money on making many games or producing hardware unitts, I'd bet they make more profit than Ninetndo, MS or PlayStattion:
Apple has way more publishers supporting them than Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo. In fact, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are some of the publishers supporting Apple.
Japanese market isn'tt small only for Sony, it's small for the other publishers outside Nintendo. This is why all Japanese publishers highly reduced their amount of Japan only games and are migrating or already migrated to games with a more global (western) approach.
Since PS has the biggest worldwide userbase and PS is where more 3rd party games are sold, all 3rd party Japanese publishers keep supporting it and will continue supporting it.
~50M is less than the over 1700M games sold for PS4. Less than 3% of the games, and way less than that of their revene because Sony gets 100% of the 1st party games. And even less if we also count add-ons (dlc/iap/season passes) and game subs. Pretty likely Bethesda generated way, way less than 1% of Sony's software revenue on PS4 including VR.
Which means that Sony wouldn't care losing them, to make them exclusive would only mean MS leaving a ton of money on the table.
You have the Bethesda numbers above.
Acitivision is mostly CoD today and they made 80-260M/year for Sony, and 250M would be 1% of Sony's yearly gaming revenue. Being generous and raising it to 2% including all other ABK games or if for some reason they would continue full multi and would have an insane growth, Sony wouldn't care about potentially losing that 1-2% of their gaming revenue since they have a bigger growth.
Japan is only 8% of the worldwide market for Sony and the AAA publishers.
Worldwide PS has 111MAU players and sell way more games (specially 3rd party) than Switch. This is why all publishers release most of their main games on PS and why most of these main games aren't on Switch.
There are many differences between movies or music and videogames that block streaming being as mainstream as Netflix or Spotify. One being how important is the latency so the amount of servers needed to provide a proper global support specially via mobile, other that most people use movies or music but not games, and most people who play games only play casual stuff on phones and won't want complex and deeper games.
And in any case, right now game subs are a tiny part of the market. And in game subs Sony has 2x the subs of MS, makes more revenue and to run it cost them less money because they don't put there all their games or 3rd party AAA games day one, so it's way more profitable for Sony. And if Spartacus is real, Sony will highly improve in this area. So won't miss tthese publishers here.
As of now all Zenimax games, dlcs and updates released after the update have been published on PS and their next game Ghostwire Tokyo too. MS said thte same thing than witth ABK and Mojang about tthe acquisition wasn'tt going to remove games from rival consoles and that they were going to keep supportitng these communities there. And the boss of their financials said that their plan for Betthesda wasn't to make exclusive games but instetad release their games 'first or better' on their platforms (so timed exclusives or multiplatform games).
For ABK they said the same without mentioning the 'first' (timed exclusives), and specifically mentioned they will continue releasing CoD on PS (and Switch too).
kingfey
Banned
That is software sales on pc, a device which they dont make. They would have the ps3 loss, if they mass produced steam deck.
I would like to ask ms, Why isnt there alot of japanese games on their console, which have more userbase than new apple console.
Every publisher focuses on their home sales first. Capcom saw huge sales on PC market. But for PlayStation, that would be huge struggle for them. Those publisher can release games for PC and Switch only, and still rake alot of money. Monster hunter world on pc sold 5m.
Not only are they seeing these sales, the ps5 would also not be able to catch those numbers, since its relatively new device.
The games you are counting, wont equal those sales. PS store has games that range between $5-$30. A single Bethesda game can make more than these games combined. AAA games generate $60. Bethesda games have eso, and fo76, which generates mtx, and dlc money. That is alot of money lost.
Even 1% to 3% is alot over time. 23b of 1% is $230m*8=that is $2b. We know bethesda generates way more than that for sony. But still that is alot of money, and Sony would need someone to cover that loss. not to mention the users who would leave the platform, which will generate more losses.
As for MS, they have gamepass, plus those users who will join their ecosystem.
You are right. Its not like activision doesnt have a huge users on playstation. IF MS takes COD from PS, those users would leave the ecosystem. That is why they called phil. They dont want to lose those users, who generate alot of money in the long run.
You to understand the ramification of losing content. It doesnt matter if you have 500m MAU. If those contents starts to leave your system, or new games arent coming to your system, people would just leave your system. MS had 85m x360. They lost 35m users to playstation. That is what happens, when users cant find the games they are looking for.
You are using a website, which runs on a server. 20 years, this process didnt exist. It was limited option for forums. Now, people can send videos, chats, and everything at a faster rate.
The point is, technology advances at a faster rate. Streaming was limited, but now I can stream 4k movies easily. In 10 years, I could stream COD, and notice anything at all.
they are supporting existing games. its one of things they clearly stated. Deathloop and ghost wire tokyo is honoring the deal.
BR talk. They only reason Minecraft is supported, its because the game is too big, and has benifits, if it stays that way. Minecraft isnt just for gaming, its for education too. They can monetize that as much as they can.
As for COD, there is small slim at 0.000000001% it could be stopped. Its why they are putting it on PS. Or else, they wouldnt have done that at all. Its all about appearing to be the good guys to the ftc.
COD, and some popular. Not every ABK game. It would be COD, and Overwatch 2 for monetization reason. For switch, it would spyro and crash for my guess. Since both company are cool.
You have to realize what losing players, does to a business like playstation. They make money from software sales. and they need users to do that. If companies keep stealing users from you, the pool, which used to provide you alot of money will shrink. 1 year, you might get $20b, the next year $19b,a nd slowly, that money gets smaller as time goes on. That what MS and Switch would do to Sony. They are aiming to get those users to their ecosystems.