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Playstation Laying Off 900 People - Multiple Studios Effected (Insomniac/Guerilla/Firesprite) - London Studio Shuts Down

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
Who tried to tell whom what?
I did. Well, the narrator did.


Narrator: It was layoffs.
 

Senua

Member
In college I briefly changed my major to computer science with a long term goal of entering the game industry. I even reached out to Vic Ireland for advice because I heard he was responsive to fans. Didn’t hear from him directly but I did get a thoughtful email from someone else on the team.

Dropped CS halfway through the semester and never looked back. One of the best decisions of my life lol
What did you do instead?
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
It's dumb to have an office in San Fran that is cost 20x more than it would in any other state if the sole reason would be "talent".
In principle I agree, but it is not so easy - as I mentioned there is already a cluster there, so everyone gravitates there towards work, meaning other locations have less available talent. I guess you can solve it with some relocation bonus, but the problem still persists.
 

poodaddy

Member
Why?

What's happening in this industry?
The bubble is, thankfully, bursting. I feel for those displaced, but the tech industry, not just game industry, is notoriously filled with grifters and overeducated lazy people who see tech jobs as a "life hack", and try to make 4 hour coding jobs take three months and they tie everything up in endless red tape while incessantly complaining about their government and capitalism while they get overpaid to do strikingly little due to that system all while biting the hand that feeds. They are the fat, and the industry has decided it's time to trim it.

Better late than never.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
This is what happens when CEOs like Jimbo lack the courage to stand up for their own employees. This industry needs more people, not fewer. This industry needs to cultivate its talent in order to improve their output, and give them the experience they need to make better games faster. thats not going to happen if they continue to layoff talent every 2 years forcing them to start over elsewhere or risk losing them to financial or tech sectors.

They are doing this to appease the shareholders without an eye on the future. This will cause game delays and that will cause profits to go down.

This is what no backbone looks like.
I think you're widely overestimating the need for moar ppl here. If anything piling on more and more people reduces efficiency, not improves it. There's enough proof that it applies in the gaming industry by now.

Sometimes, the purple forum comes up with some interesting stuff. Grain of salt and all ofc.

zK5K3me.jpg
 

Filben

Member
Why?

What's happening in this industry?
There's an argument that the industry tried to act like the tech industry with every increasing investment in technology, human resources, licenses, trademarks, and commissions. Creative innovation, however, cannot be forced by pumping more money into the system/industry. You can't expect creativity with every increasing deadlines and even tighter risk calculations because shareholders demand a certain percentage because otherwise they could invest in something different.

We always hear about technology advancements, like DLSS, path tracing, the PS5's SSD and the like but comparatively little about the actual art, or gameplay innovations. This works only for so many years until consumers realise they don't pursue that hobby because of the technology.

video games are in that hybrid area where technological advancements drive creative innovations. This happened a lot in earlier generations, but now, if you look at the most expensive games, they don't differ much from ten years older games in terms of gameplay. It's just a bit more refined and polished but cost tremendously more for the little advancements they offer. You can ride this train only so far and they start reaching the ceiling.

There's only one big player that doesn't play the game like many other first party studios, publishers and platform providers and that is Nintendo, who manages to even employ more personnel instead of laying off. They work fundamentally different than other major players in the industry.

I highly recommend watching this video on the topic:
 

Diseased Yak

Gold Member
The cost of everything is going up, so companies are tightening there belts.
I work in the luxury motor vehicle business and we have seen lay offs too, no one is buying luxury items like they used to.

It's really strange how some things are unaffected. I work for a major fashion retailer in the US and we keep hitting record highs on our company stock, no layoffs in sight, but then I guess people need clothes... Makes me nervous, though, as it wouldn't be the first time to see a company's stock hit an all-time high and then layoffs follow.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think you're widely overestimating the need for moar ppl here. If anything piling on more and more people reduces efficiency, not improves it. There's enough proof that it applies in the gaming industry by now.

Sometimes, the purple forum comes up with some interesting stuff. Grain of salt and all ofc.
If there was not a need for more people they would not go on hiring sprees a year or two before launch of a new game to help ship it. This happens at every studio.

Or should i say every poorly managed studio. They couldve used these guys to help out at other studios helping games ship. Turn them into support studios like Nixxes or VSG and use their talent to help ship games.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
This industry is fucked.

Keep supporting GAAS trash and subscriptions.

Buying games for 70 bucks en masse is the only fix

Not even 70 will cut it long term. The real value of that price increase got wiped out with inflation. 60 in '05 is 90 today. By next gen, "healthy" pricing will be closer to 80+.

I really don't know how that'll play in international markets though.
 
Lets see

1. Lack of first party games from first party studios
2. Going to have even less studios compared to Microsoft at this rate
3. For the price of Bungie it was a waste
4. Could of brought Rockstar and its ips to maintain the income could possibly reached the sales target
5. The genre of games all I see is either rpg or hack/slash with rpg elements. Not enough decent platformers , Fps expecially RTS C&C would be a goldmine if they remake RA2
 
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StueyDuck

Member
In principle I agree, but it is not so easy - as I mentioned there is already a cluster there, so everyone gravitates there towards work, meaning other locations have less available talent. I guess you can solve it with some relocation bonus, but the problem still persists.
Would it though, depends on where the relocation takes place.

The point overall is that these places aren't the only places where talent exists anymore.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
This industry is fucked.

Keep supporting GAAS trash and subscriptions.

Buying games for 70 bucks en masse is the only fix
Read this. What is in jeopardy is the AAA bloat games, not the whole industry.

"Delivering the immersive, narrative-driven stories that PlayStation Studios is known for, at the quality bar that we aspire to, requires a re-evaluation of how we operate.

Delivering and sustaining social, online experiences – allowing PlayStation gamers to explore our worlds in different ways – as well as launching games on additional devices such as PC and Mobile, requires a different approach and different resources."


Sounds like they have to go hard on PC releases and GAAS. They're literally explaining that continuing with the same approach is not an option.
 
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Not even 70 will cut it long term. The real value of that price increase got wiped out with inflation. 60 in '05 is 90 today. By next gen, "healthy" pricing will be closer to 80+.

I really don't know how that'll play in international markets though.

Yeah but 60 in 05 would typically get you a complete game. 70 in 2024 gets you in the door, then you have battle passes, cosmetics, DLC, etc. To get the full experience you end up paying more than inflation adjusted $90 in many cases.

They need to change the way games are made, cut the budgets way down.
 
Why anyone in Liverpool would even trust SONY for employment is beyond me, mind you I bet SONY Uk will close completely in a few years and SONY will blame Brexit
 

Elysium44

Banned
I think you're widely overestimating the need for moar ppl here. If anything piling on more and more people reduces efficiency, not improves it. There's enough proof that it applies in the gaming industry by now.

Sometimes, the purple forum comes up with some interesting stuff. Grain of salt and all ofc.

zK5K3me.jpg

So in his first paragraph he thinks it means the UK is doomed and then he goes on to acknowledge the studio was full of dead wood and wasters, picking up their fat salary while playing with themselves all day. Too many offices are like this in various industries and it's right these people get the boot.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Read this. What is in jeopardy is the AAA bloat games, not the whole industry.

"Delivering the immersive, narrative-driven stories that PlayStation Studios is known for, at the quality bar that we aspire to, requires a re-evaluation of how we operate.

Delivering and sustaining social, online experiences – allowing PlayStation gamers to explore our worlds in different ways – as well as launching games on additional devices such as PC and Mobile, requires a different approach and different resources."


Sounds like they have to go hard on PC releases and GAAS. They're literally explaining that continuing with the same approach is not an option.
Yeah well this may just be my last gen. It’s been a great hobby.

Little kids and lame adults have killed the industry with their shit taste.

Fortnite literally did unfixable damage.

GTA6 is the only hope to spark a fire in the industry again
 

Audiophile

Member
Average salary of PlayStation worker is~ £15K (tester) through to ~£100K (senior dev); so let's just say it's a rough £47K, so multiply that by 900 then add 70% it to represent actual cost of employing someone (though let's crank it to 100% for a bloated corporation).

That's £85M; or $108M saved, take away the cost of any placement assistance and severance, then the cost reduction of (I assume) no longer having to rent a building for London Studios, as well as likely-reduced footprints elsewhere. Either way relative to the company's profit margin it's probably a fart in the wind.

The ultimate question was, did these employees provide ~$100M or so in actual average per-year value over the course of a few years; or did they at least act as a vital part of the puzzle..

Was dropping them worth a tiny bump in their margins and/or could that small amount of resources gained be reinvested more effectively elsewhere?
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
If there was not a need for more people they would not go on hiring sprees a year or two before launch of a new game to help ship it. This happens at every studio.
As you allude to in the next paragraph, those guys just get laid off or their contracts happen to end on release quarter.

The other problem here is that the crunch hiring of yesteryear isn't the same as today. Today, you're dealing with a large contigent of WFHers. Time to admit it people, WFH is not productive for the practice of making vidya.

Or should i say every poorly managed studio. They couldve used these guys to help out at other studios helping games ship. Turn them into support studios like Nixxes or VSG and use their talent to help ship games.
The sooner Nixxes starts on that as opposed to being a PC port studio, the better.

But honestly, that's not going to solve the problem either. Sony already bought of Valkyrie, had a support stable before that, and set up PS Malaysia for the same purposes.

It's a structural and attitude problem. Devs need to work consistently and productively throughout production. Get back in the goddamned office and work diligently if you don't want to crunch.
 

geary

Member
Why have studios to develop games? It's cheaper to buy exclusivity. Everything is about cost cutting in the end.
Suck, but the corporate world is cutthroat.
 
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Varteras

Member
The fact that Media Molecule is still going blows my fucking mind. Insomniac getting hit does not surprise at all. That Spiderman 2 budget was insane compared to the first just 5 years earlier.

Until those profit margins go up, no one at Sony should feel comfortable if they're not doing their part to improve that margin. It's shitty that people had to lose their jobs because of, among other things, Sony's inability to properly position itself for better profit for awhile now.

Yes. I know. "It's complicated". It's still shitty. Even at my job I'm watching good people get laid off because the people on top have been sloppy for years.
 

tmlDan

Member
After Totoki's words during the quarterly financials i am not surprised at all, he legitimately said the studios are bad at business and planning (i know it was mainly about Bungie, but it could go for most of their studios)

Really really shitty, so many devs looking for work.

No more fun retreats and game days or social Fridays, get to work people, release games or you're gonna get fired. It seems things got too lax and bloated (on top of the economy and COVID).
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Average salary of PlayStation worker is~ £15K (tester) through to ~£100K (senior dev); so let's just say it's a rough £47K, so multiply that by 900 then add 70% it to represent actual cost of employing someone (though let's crank it to 100% for a bloated corporation).

That's £85M; or $108M saved, take away the cost of any placement assistance and severance, plus the cost of (I assume) no longer having to rent a building for London Studios, as well as likely-reduced footprints elsewhere. Either way relative to the company's profit margin it's probably a fart in the wind.

The ultimate question was, did these employees provide ~$100M or so in actual average per-year value over the course of a few years; or did they at least act as a vital part of the puzzle. Was dropping them worth a tiny bump in their margins and/or could that small amount of resources gained be reinvested more effectively elsewhere?
I think its not about $100 million saved. it's about the message it sends to the shareholders that they are doing something to offset the drop in profits.

I think they know this $100 million increase in net operating income wont matter. This is just to make sure their shares dont tank.
 

Alebrije

Gold Member
It seems the industry reached it's peak curve, there is not more market , this is normal on all industries. Basically from now on Will be the same cake every year and companies trying yo get the biggest slice.

Problem with Big companies is that there are tons of small developers delivering great games and taking small slices from the cake.

From now on Bet working benefits Will be less on places like Sony,Microsoft or other Big developing company...for people that works on that industry the Golden era is ending.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Yeah but 60 in 05 would typically get you a complete game. 70 in 2024 gets you in the door, then you have battle passes, cosmetics, DLC, etc. To get the full experience you end up paying more than inflation adjusted $90 in many cases.
Still costs them way more to do it. And honestly, I don't have that problem. I'm quite selective with the games I buy, and if anything, I've seen a minor uptick in the quality of game I get on the disc.

And please, DLC, cosmetics and paid endings for everything other than live services (most of them being F2p and you know it) were way worse back in the early 2010s and late 00s. This idea that there are incomplete games routinely coming out now is just disingenuous. Especially comparatively speaking. People complain about there being too much content now, more often than not.

They need to change the way games are made, cut the budgets way down.
No disrespect buddy, what do you think these layoffs are for? The largest cost of these companies are salary earners.
 

Trunx81

Member
Only because they were held back by the Xbox S /jk

Let´s see how it affects the games. As many of you already mentioned, it probably will hit the Gaas titles, so nothing of real value was lost.

I´m working in PR, we also see a lot of layoffs lately, most because of AI replacing people, especially writers. GPT4 is making tons and tons of money ...
 

Hunnybun

Member
It's really strange how some things are unaffected. I work for a major fashion retailer in the US and we keep hitting record highs on our company stock, no layoffs in sight, but then I guess people need clothes... Makes me nervous, though, as it wouldn't be the first time to see a company's stock hit an all-time high and then layoffs follow.

The whole obsession with GDP makes the economy sound like a binary state, either 'good' or 'bad'.

In reality GDP is an aggregation of an enormous number of factors, most of which move independently. I think we'd probably all be a lot better off if we just turned the news off.
 
Well that and the fact that gaming is in a slump as a whole. The GAS market is pretty saturated and so far noone has been able to figure out what the next thing is going to be.
Unless it craters, seems the next big thing is PvE experiences with extremely unobtrusive monetization.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Real talk: Has Sony released any good news for gamers all gen?

I cannot remember the last piece of good news they've had other than some PS5 sale figure.
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Ah yes.

Of course the Tories are responsible for VR and GaaS.
I'm not necessarily agreeing with that part, and if I did, it would be for the reason that government conservatives in the UK, like most of Europe, have been low budget socialists for the entirety of their modern run; a point everyone on reee would be compelled to loathe and disagree with. Ie "the problem is the Tories are not socialist enough".

How much of that has an impact on the attitudes of people working white collar jobs making vidya is impossible to quantify, but his statement about industry in the UK beijg lethargic is absolutely correct, irrespective of his rationale for why that is.
 
Games are taking way too long to make playing through Spider-Man 2 and I can't shake the feeling these games just need to be smaller I actually enjoyed Miles more because it was a lot more focused and where did the 300 million go?! It just wasn't a smart use of resources even though they made it back that's a bloated budget. PlayStation seems to be at a crossroads I really hope they figured it out and this is the process unfolding in front of us it sucks they had to layoff 900 people because of wild budgets and mismanagement.
 
Why?

What's happening in this industry?
My guess is these people were just hire's made during covid lockdowns and somewhat aren't working for the Org anymore.

Or this new generation of iPad kids aren't picking up gaming as their hobby as such they aren't making gang buster sales like during our generation?
 
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