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[GymWolf]

4. PS5 came out in November 2020.

Imagine spending 4 years on something and not having a single screenshot to show for it. Literally just shut the studio down. These publishers are cutting these devs too much slack.

Sony's CEO was talking about changing how they run their gaming business. Id say implement these few rules to ensure better production from your studios:
- 1 year in. Fire the director if he's unable to produce a vertical slice ready for an E3 showing after 1 year of development.
- 2 years in. Fire the studio head if he's unable to provide a release date after 2 years of dev time.
- 3 years in. Shut the studio down if they are unable to produce a single screenshot, trailer, or fucking name of the game that you can announce. If they cant get it done in 3 years, no point waiting for the 4th.
- 4 years. Fire the head of your worldwide studios and your gaming CEO. This is sheer incompetence letting devs take this long. You are not rockstar who make games that sell 200 million copies. You dont get 7 years.

Yeah after 4 years they should have a 10 min vertical slice to show like sony used to do during the ps4 era at the very least, hell the game should be like 70% complete by now.

I just don't agree on making big ass games in 2-3 years, only insomniac can manage that and i explained multiple times why, no magic or otherworldy talent involved, just favourable circumstances.

 

[skneogaf]

Borneblood

 

[yurinka]

Didn't we already knew that?

Demons remake is 3 years old now...

4. PS5 came out in November 2020.

Imagine spending 4 years on something and not having a single screenshot to show for it. Literally just shut the studio down. These publishers are cutting these devs too much slack.

Sony's CEO was talking about changing how they run their gaming business. Id say implement these few rules to ensure better production from your studios:
- 1 year in. Fire the director if he's unable to produce a vertical slice ready for an E3 showing after 1 year of development.
- 2 years in. Fire the studio head if he's unable to provide a release date after 2 years of dev time.
- 3 years in. Shut the studio down if they are unable to produce a single screenshot, trailer, or fucking name of the game that you can announce. If they cant get it done in 3 years, no point waiting for the 4th.
- 4 years. Fire the head of your worldwide studios and your gaming CEO. This is sheer incompetence letting devs take this long. You are not rockstar who make games that sell 200 million copies. You dont get 7 years.

Yeah after 4 years they should have a 10 min vertical slice to show like sony used to do during the ps4 era at the very least, hell the game should be like 70% complete by now.

I just don't agree on making big ass games in 2-3 years, only insomniac can manage that and i explained multiple times why, no magic or otherworldy talent involved, just favourable circumstances.

Bluepoint released Demon's Souls in 2020, and later worked as a support team in GoWR, released in November 2022.

They didn't work in GoWR Valhalla, after GoWR they are working as support team in another new game (not a remake/remaster), as was the case in GoWR.

Bluepoint never has been leading their own game and there isn't anything wrong with them. They can't fire Bluepoint's game director or creative director because they don't have (or had) anyone on these positions, because they are a support/partner team, who before did work on remasters/remakes and now works as support team in new games (the first one was GoWR, they are now working in another one).

 

[GymWolf]

Bluepoint released Demon's Souls in 2020, and later worked as a support team in GoWR, released in November 2022.

They didn't work in GoWR Valhalla, after GoWR they are working as support team in another new game (not a remake/remaster).

So the whole team has just been helping other teams and just recently started working solo?

Kinda of a waste if you ask me, unless they are really only good at making remakes\helping.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah after 4 years they should have a 10 min vertical slice to show like sony used to do during the ps4 era at the very least, hell the game should be like 70% complete by now.

I just don't agree on making big ass games in 2-3 years, only insomniac can manage that and i explained multiple times why, no magic or otherworldy talent involved, just favourable circumstances.

i dont think bluepoint is making a big ass game though. id say ND, GGM and SSM have earned that right. but BP? nah.

And even then, i dont think you can give big name directors carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want. Thats how you get Cory working on one game for 6.5 years now and having nothing to show for it. Rockstar made GTA6 in that span. Cory cant even tell us the name.

Same goes for Neil. 4.5 years since TLOU2 came out and nothing. These two guys have literally 300-500 devs at their disposal and you cant make a vertical slice in 4.5 and 6.5 years? Ken levine is a genius. He took 12 years to make one game. Ueda too. Sorry, but no. There are geniuses who hold back otherwise talented studios as hostage. Something that cant happen in the movie industry because the cast and crew just go off and do their own thing while stanley kubrick worked on one movie for 10 years.

 

[GymWolf]

M

i dont think bluepoint is making a big ass game though. id say ND, GGM and SSM have earned that right. but BP? nah.

And even then, i dont think you can give big name directors carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want. Thats how you get Cory working on one game for 6.5 years now and having nothing to show for it. Rockstar made GTA6 in that span. Cory cant even tell us the name.

Same goes for Neil. 4.5 years since TLOU2 came out and nothing. These two guys have literally 300-500 devs at their disposal and you cant make a vertical slice in 4.5 and 6.5 years? Ken levine is a genius. He took 12 years to make one game. Ueda too. Sorry, but no. There are geniuses who hold back otherwise talented studios as hostage. Something that cant happen in the movie industry because the cast and crew just go off and do their own thing while stanley kubrick worked on one movie for 10 years.

Maybe it's just sony new politic to not show games until they are ready to release...

Also, corey didn't had the whole team to make the new game, most of the team was probably working on ragnarock so they are not 6,5 full years of working on a new game with the full team behind.

But yeah, every single team (hell even guerrilla) should have something concrete to show by now.

 

[EN250]

GaaS Shooter new IP, yeah !!

You forgot representation™ and inclusivity™

 

[Clear]

Yeah after 4 years they should have a 10 min vertical slice to show like sony used to do during the ps4 era at the very least, hell the game should be like 70% complete by now.

Oh sure, show a vertical slice and best case scenario get pilloried by the idiot pedants in the peanut gallery when the release version looks slightly different...

Also, stop assuming that the first attempt at trying to create a new IP is the one that gets greenlit.

Or would it be better to sack everyone if they don't hit the mark everytime like some muppet suggested elsewhere in this thread? Because that's exactly what's it means when its demanded that studios churn out stuff every x months after their last release, even if they are trying something new and different.

 

[yurinka]

So the whole team has just been helping other teams and just recently started working solo?

Kinda of a waste if you ask me, unless they are really only good at making remakes\helping.

You can go to check the GoWR game credits and compare it with the studio staff they have listed in their LinkedIn: basically, as the Bluepoint devs completed their job in Demon's Souls moved to GoWR.

Logically over the years a few people left or joined, but other than that basically all the devs they had back between the Demon's Souls remake and GoWR releases did work on GoWR.

As they completed their job in GoWR, they moved to an unknown game (where they also are in a support role).

Being a support team, for them moving from working on remasters or remakes to work in new games it is a big step forward, and can do it with mostly the same team. To lead a game (and even more a new IP) is a different beast, before doing so I think they work in several new games as support team while slowly growing.

A few months ago Sony mentioned Bluepoint as a partner/support team in the slide I mentioned above. If you go to LinkedIn you'll see that Bluepoint doesn't have game director, creative director, and doesn't even have half a dozen game designers, so they can't be leading their own game. Nobody from Sony or Bluepoint ever said that they are leading their own game.

So the are working on a new game, but in a support role, as they did in GoWR. Games where they could be working in case they are working on a new IP:

• SSM's Cory new IP
• Marathon (not really a new IP, but almost)
• Wolverine (not really a new IP, but almost)
• ND's new IP
• Bend's new IP
• Fairgame$
• Firesprite's new IP (if their horror adventure project isn't Until Dawn 2)
• Housemarque's new IP (if they aren't working on a sequel)
• Media Molecule's new IP (if they aren't working on a sequel/spinoff)
• New IP incubated at Bungie and moved to PS Studios
• Ex-Deviation team new IP

i dont think bluepoint is making a big ass game though. id say ND, GGM and SSM have earned that right. but BP? nah.

Bluepoint never have been working on their own game. After Demon's Souls they worked as support team in GoWR and after it on an unknown game leade by somebody else.

And even then, i dont think you can give big name directors carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want. Thats how you get Cory working on one game for 6.5 years now and having nothing to show for it. Rockstar made GTA6 in that span. Cory cant even tell us the name.

Same goes for Neil. 4.5 years since TLOU2 came out and nothing. These two guys have literally 300-500 devs at their disposal and you cant make a vertical slice in 4.5 and 6.5 years? Ken levine is a genius. He took 12 years to make one game. Ueda too. Sorry, but no. There are geniuses who hold back otherwise talented studios as hostage. Something that cant happen in the movie industry because the cast and crew just go off and do their own thing while stanley kubrick worked on one movie for 10 years.

After releasing GoW 2018 Cory moved to be the (senior) creative director of the studio, which means he has been the creative director of GoWR, GoWR Valhalla and the other projects they have been working on: the next GoWR, PC ports, apparently their new IP and supporting/overviewing the GoW movie adaptation.

Nowadays AAA games take around 5-9 years on average, a bit more for new IPs. Apparently they've been working on the new IP 5-6 years, so they are on par and should be announced relatively soon, maybe next year or so.

Neil became ND's president, so he's in charge of everything they released since TLOU2: Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection, TLOP1, TLOU2R, the PC ports and overviewing/supporting the Uncharted and TLOU adaptations. They also were working on the cancelled TLOU Online and minimum a couple SP games they have under the works that aren't TLOU3 (one started months after releasing TLOU2, one started early 2023), meaning one can be a new Uncharted -I assume another Uncharted Ladies spinoff but with the daughter- and the other one a new IP. After cancelling TLOU Online maybe (or maybe not) they could have started TLOU3 late 2023 with I assume a third team with mostly TLOU Online devs.

If we add 5-9 years to a few months after TLOU 2 release then the next ND game could be released late 2025-late 2029 to be on par with the average curreent AAA timeframes. And the one started early 2023, then an early 2028-2032 release would be on par.

There's nothing wrong with their output.

But yeah, every single team (hell even guerrilla) should have something concrete to show by now.

I think that in a year from now very likely they'll have announced/teased Cory's new IP, the next ND game and Horizon Online.

Regarding Guerrilla, remember they recently announced (and will be released very soon) Lego Horizon (codeveloped by another team) and the Horizon Remaster (remastered by Nixxes, but I assume overviewed and who knows if also supported by Guerrilla).

 

[Loomy]

4. PS5 came out in November 2020.

Imagine spending 4 years on something and not having a single screenshot to show for it. Literally just shut the studio down. These publishers are cutting these devs too much slack.

Sony's CEO was talking about changing how they run their gaming business. Id say implement these few rules to ensure better production from your studios:
- 1 year in. Fire the director if he's unable to produce a vertical slice ready for an E3 showing after 1 year of development.
- 2 years in. Fire the studio head if he's unable to provide a release date after 2 years of dev time.
- 3 years in. Shut the studio down if they are unable to produce a single screenshot, trailer, or fucking name of the game that you can announce. If they cant get it done in 3 years, no point waiting for the 4th.
- 4 years. Fire the head of your worldwide studios and your gaming CEO. This is sheer incompetence letting devs take this long. You are not rockstar who make games that sell 200 million copies. You dont get 7 years.

Might as well shut down the business.

What your 4 year plan is missing there is the time it takes to brainstorm ideas for games, prototyping ideas and systems.

Making a demo for E3 takes resources away from the main development, which add to the overall length of the project. Also, making a demo for a game after a year of development would mean you start building it about 6-7 months into the project. By the time the game comes out, the gameplay you demo'd at E3 or wherever is probably no longer what the game is.

Studio heads don't give release dates. Publishers give studios a release date based on portfolio and funding.

Horizon: Zero Dawn, TLoU 2, and Ghost of Tsushima took 6 years to develop. Imagine if 3 years in Hermen Hulst went to Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, and Guerilla and said "go home, studio is shut down" and then a year later woke up and thought "fuck, I guess I should stay home forever".

 

[VolticArchangel]

Lymphborne

 

[Varteras]

M

Maybe it's just sony new politic to not show games until they are ready to release...

Also, corey didn't had the whole team to make the new game, most of the team was probably working on ragnarock so they are not 6,5 full years of working on a new game with the full team behind.

But yeah, every single team (hell even guerrilla) should have something concrete to show by now.

Guerrilla? Nah. Forbidden West is only two years old. The expansion came out last year. They also helped Firesprite on the VR game. Now they have a Lego collab dropping. They've been busy releasing stuff. Bend and Media Molecule though? Yeah. Those guys need to get moving. Especially after how their last projects went.

 

[VolticArchangel]

MGS fans dreaming of the first Solid game's remake, in shambles.

 

[SlimySnake]

Might as well shut down the business.

What your 4 year plan is missing there is the time it takes to brainstorm ideas for games, prototyping ideas and systems.

Making a demo for E3 takes resources away from the main development, which add to the overall length of the project. Also, making a demo for a game after a year of development would mean you start building it about 6-7 months into the project. By the time the game comes out, the gameplay you demo'd at E3 or wherever is probably no longer what the game is.

Studio heads don't give release dates. Publishers give studios a release date based on portfolio and funding.

Horizon: Zero Dawn, TLoU 2, and Ghost of Tsushima took 6 years to develop. Imagine if 3 years in Hermen Hulst went to Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, and Guerilla and said "go home, studio is shut down" and then a year later woke up and thought "fuck, I guess I should stay home forever".

You can brainstorm ideas beforehand. Your leads dont need to be involved in the final few months of the production as they iron out bugs to ship the game. That should be when you have the leads go in and brainstorm so that when the full team is finished with a game, you can immediately start full production on the next game. Thats how all of these studios used to work. This is not their first rodeo.

Cory rebooted GOW in just 4 years. From design to release. 4 years total. he's gone 6.5 years now with nothing to show for it. The team did release Ragnorak during that time, but 6.5 years of brainstorming with nothing to show for is retarded.

Horizon only took 6 years because they cancelled it and then went to work on a vampire shooter for a year before cancelling that too. That was herman's fuck up that cost them a year. But if you look at KZSF to Horizon ZD, they still got it done in under 3.5 years despite all the reboots.

Same thing happened with GoT. They worked on a game for two years that was cancelled. you can see the vertical slice on youtube.

Neil went out there making tv shows after shipping tlou2 leaving his team aimless working on remakes being done by other studios and cancelling GaaS games. This is on the directors. The studio heads 4.5 years with no new game to show? Yes, hold someone accountable. Obviously you cant shutdown ND but people gotta go.

 

[mayham2199]

Well, its been 4 years. They used to make remakes in 2-2.5 years and now its been 4 years and they have yet to show a single screenshot from their next game. Either they are incompetent and cant make new games, or just really fucking slow at getting shit done.

I think these devs chasing perfection taking 6 fucking years to make new games are signing their own death warrant. It's taking too way too long to make a fucking video game. Get shit done in 2-3 years max. Keep the budgets reasonable and you wont be shut down if the game underperforms.

People will blame evil Sony if they shut down Bluepoint but lets start fucking holding devs accountable for churning through Publisher money for more than half of a decade to make one game. They need better planning, and a more cohesive vision from the directors at the top who can take a project from pre-production to completion in under 3 years. if fucking nolan can make a movie everything three years while writing his own shit, shooting everything on location and using no CG then a bunch of video game studios should be able to create a game in 3 years.

They just need to bring the hours down. A game doesn't need to be 40+ hours. A nice 20-25 hours is plenty. Spiderman 2 had the perfect length and didn't overstay it's welcome. RE games figured this out and they just keep pumping out nice 12-15 hour games.

 

[nial]

Not really worth a thread, it's either something that will take a while to materialize, or a co-development project with Santa Monica Studio (pretty much like Demon's Souls 2020 being a co-development project with Japan Studio).
SlimySnake GymWolf I hope you guys realize that you're talking about a studio with barely any actual developers on its own, that also needed to have another studio to give them the ACTUAL direction on its last project (Demon's Souls 2020)

Honestly, I don't have high hopes. What little creative input they had on the Demon's Souls Remake was mostly to the games detriment, in regards to face animations, music and so on. Like you'd think you couldn't screw this up, so I'm not sure how well they'll do with this. Of course I'd love it if they'd turn out something great, we'll see.

I honestly think people blame Bluepoint WAY TOO much on whatever they dislike on Demon's Souls 2020. Like, nobody ever brings up the fact that development was led by Japan Studio (as opposed to only doing support work like in the original game), and some of the changes like the OST are 100% on Sony with Bluepoint having literally NOTHING to do with.

 

[Seomel]

Strong, female lead incoming?

Returnal Remastered

 

[Sonik]

Strong, female lead incoming?

My prediction is that she's a Latina, I'm calling it now