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[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

PSVR 2 Black Friday Sale is Still Going Strong After 20x Spike in Sales Volume

Black Friday brought the best PSVR 2 sale we’ve seen yet, but Sony has kept it going. You can still get the PSVR 2 Horizon Call of the Mountain bundle for just $350, a 42% discount over the usual price. Update (December 6th, 2024): Sony dropped its Black Friday PSVR 2 sale well ahead of the …

www.roadtovr.com

They should just keep it permanent..

 

[cyberheater]

I’m a huge fan of the Aliens movie (not the latter shite ones) so have high hope for this. It looks great.

 

[havoc00]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

 

[SilentUser]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

I have Arizona Sunshine Remake and 2, plus Switchback.

Both Arizona titles are cool (have it to play more of the second title). They are technically just ok (resolution should and could be better and are reprojected), but they are massively fun. Gameplay is top notch and you can play in coop (it is crossplay). Well worth it, imo.

Switchback is technically very competent and it is a starionary title, so it is an easier way to get yourself more used to VR. Plus, it is a fun title to show people and laugh with them. However, I barely touched it outside of showing it to friends.

 

[fart town usa]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

Max Mustard is solid. Best non-Astrobot VR platformer.

 

[R6Rider]

I’m a huge fan of the Aliens movie (not the latter shite ones) so have high hope for this. It looks great.

Did you watch Romulus?

IMO it's the third best in the series now. Not exactly a high bar, but still something.

 

[Crayon]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

Pavlov is basically being inside counterstrike. Less Russians, I guess.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They should just keep it permanent..

I think they're phasing out production of this model. They've pretty much sold out on Amazon.

I think they'll release a new model or models next year. Wireless and maybe wireless and stand-alone.

They'd be dumb not too see how VR is really starting to pick up steam. They can't simply wait for PSVR3. That's probably at least 5 or 6 years away.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think they're phasing out production of this model. They've pretty much sold out on Amazon.

I think they'll release a new model or models next year. Wireless and maybe wireless and stand-alone.

They'd be dumb not too see how VR is really starting to pick up steam. They can't simply wait for PSVR3. That's probably at least 5 or 6 years away.

It's not picking up steam that fast to the degree they need to act quickly. Meta stuff is all heavily subsidized.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's not picking up steam that fast to the degree they need to act quickly. Meta stuff is all heavily subsidized.

Meta stuff is heavily subsidized, but you really don't want another xbox situation where you're fighting market headwinds because you didn't do more earlier.

I think they need to release a new model by holiday season next year. The question is based on how much inventory they have, whether they can keep up with demand that long and not fall behind on market share. If they're smart they'll release a new model by the summer no later.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Meta stuff is heavily subsidized, but you really don't want another xbox situation where you're fighting market headwinds because you didn't do more earlier.

I think they need to release a new model by holiday season next year. The question is based on how much inventory they have, whether they can keep up with demand that long and not fall behind on market share. If they're smart they'll release a new model by the summer no later.

I think they’re fine waiting until ps6 and ps6 handheld to release a vr refresh

You get bye benefit of being able to use the handheld chip on the VR device for wireless play

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think they’re fine waiting until ps6 and ps6 handheld to release a vr refresh

You get bye benefit of being able to use the handheld chip on the VR device for wireless play

PS6 isn't coming out until 2028 at the earliest. I don't see them waiting until then.

I also don't think they're going to release a PS6 handheld in 4 years.

 

[fart town usa]

This game can definitely be improved upon but I'm still really enjoying it. My favorite parts are the exploration and arena combat sections. I wasn't impressed at all with the first Behemoth fight, I hear the 2nd is pretty wild.

 

[cyberheater]

Did you watch Romulus?

IMO it's the third best in the series now. Not exactly a high bar, but still something.

Yes. Romulus is really good. I forgot that in my list.

 

[PanzerCute]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max MuMustard

I can only talk about Switchback and I do not recommend it. It is not a bad game and as SilentUser mentioned it is great to showcase the headset to people, but its not very good imo.

My biggest complaint with the game is the pacing: the levels are long and feel empty, with lengthy sequences of ... barely nothing? No ennemies, not set piece, nothing interesting to see..

I dont know its so weird, like they wanted to make all levels artificially longer to have more content, which completely ruins the tension.

I was expecting something like Rush of Blood: a hectic House of the Dead-like with rollercoaster sensations, but instead I got a clumsy and boring Ghost Train that I did not bother finishing.

If you want an exhilarating Rail Shooter, I strongly advise you to buy Runner instead.

 

[fart town usa]

I can only talk about Switchback and I do not recommend it. It is not a bad game and as SilentUser mentioned it is great to showcase the headset to people, but its not very good imo.

My biggest complaint with the game is the pacing: the levels are long and feel empty, with lengthy sequences of ... barely nothing? No ennemies, not set piece, nothing interesting to see..

I dont know its so weird, like they wanted to make all levels artificially longer to have more content, which completely ruins the tension.

I was expecting something like Rush of Blood: a hectic House of the Dead-like with rollercoaster sensations, but instead I got a clumsy and boring Ghost Train that I did not bother finishing.

If you want an exhilarating Rail Shooter, I strongly advise you to buy Runner instead.

Agree completely. Switchback completely fails IMO. It's a boring rollercoaster ride and the gunplay feels awful. I thought the same about the first too. I don't understand the emphasis on shooting targets for point multipliers. I want to shoot zombies and shit and have the rollercoaster ride be truly nauseating.

Completely agree too on Runner, that is the best bang for your buck in VR IMO, at least on the PSN store. Absolute must own.

----

I'm still enjoying Behemoth but good grief, the more I play of this game, the more it collapses under its own weight. It's the combat. At times it truly shines and other times it's just a VR jank-fueled mess. It's seriously some of the best VR I've played and some of the worst. The fact that the game has a built in exhaust valve (rage mode) shows that the mechanics are not where they should be.

Here's a funny example of the game owning itself. I was looking forward to this fight too, I died a few times and it was slop as hell overall but I wanted to git gud and actually engage with the boss. After that though, it's like F it, I'll take it, lol.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In other PSVR2 news, Apple and Sony working on enabling the Sense Controllers to work on the Vision Pro.

Apple and Sony Working on VR Gaming Controller Support for Vision Pro

Apple and Sony are collaborating to bring support for PlayStation VR2 hand controllers to the Vision Pro, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman reports. Sony...

www.macrumors.com

Nishino is making some really good moves. This is a great move for both Sony and Apple, but also suggests that the Sense Controllers could start to be sold separately from the PSVR2.

If I'm correct about a PSVR2 wireless model, Sony is really starting to focus on as broad-based appeal for its products as possible.

 

[RedC]

Man, the first 5 minutes of experiencing Horizon Call of the Mountain have been amazing but the constant troubleshooting have been frustrating.

Everytime I start the game, my right controller won't respone so I have to reset it every single time for it to recognize.

Everytime I get to the bow and arrow in the tutorial and I pick up the bow. The bow then doesn't show and when I try to load a arrow and shoot it with the gesture nothing happens. When I do the motions, I feel the vibrations only to be let down in game.

Heavy SIGH

 

[PanzerCute]

Man, the first 5 minutes of experiencing Horizon Call of the Mountain have been amazing but the constant troubleshooting have been frustrating.

Everytime I start the game, my right controller won't respone so I have to reset it every single time for it to recognize.

Everytime I get to the bow and arrow in the tutorial and I pick up the bow. The bow then doesn't show and when I try to load a arrow and shoot it with the gesture nothing happens. When I do the motions, I feel the vibrations only to be let down in game.

Heavy SIGH

That sucks man sorry for you

It's obviously not supposed to happen. When you say you reset it, do you mean pressing the tiny reset button in a pinhole with a paperclip? Do you have the issue in other games?

What happens when you take the bow? Does it appear briefly in your hand and then disappear?

 

[RedC]

That sucks man sorry for you

It's obviously not supposed to happen. When you say you reset it, do you mean pressing the tiny reset button in a pinhole with a paperclip? Do you have the issue in other games?

What happens when you take the bow? Does it appear briefly in your hand and then disappear?

I reset it by pressing the tiny reset button in a pinhole with a paperclip.

I haven't played another game yet but will try to in order to eliminate whether this issue is isolated or not.

The bow disappers as soon as I grab it.

 

[XXL]

Man, the first 5 minutes of experiencing Horizon Call of the Mountain have been amazing but the constant troubleshooting have been frustrating.

Everytime I start the game, my right controller won't respone so I have to reset it every single time for it to recognize.

Everytime I get to the bow and arrow in the tutorial and I pick up the bow. The bow then doesn't show and when I try to load a arrow and shoot it with the gesture nothing happens. When I do the motions, I feel the vibrations only to be let down in game.

Heavy SIGH

This shouldn't be happening. Try to do the setup again. If it keeps happening, something is wrong with your controller and I would do an exchange.

My PSVR 2 controllers have never disconnected.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

All good titles (even Switchback after graphic updates).

 

[Minsc]

I reset it by pressing the tiny reset button in a pinhole with a paperclip.

I haven't played another game yet but will try to in order to eliminate whether this issue is isolated or not.

The bow disappers as soon as I grab it.

I've read a few people having that or a similar issue I think. It'd be worth a shot to remove all your dual shocks and psvr2 controllers, then register them all again one at a time, I think that fixed it for some people anyway. I feel like the issue may have had something to do with too many contollers registered on the system or something, I can't remember, but it happened to a couple of people around launch, and registering the controllers over again fixed it I think! Too bad though, I had a similar experience (the first five minutes was amazing), only I didn't have any controller issues so it carried on through the next hour / few other games.

 

[XXL]

Any opinions on these games? These are on my buy radar.

Arizona Sunshine 2 or the Remake

Pavlov

Crossfire Sierra Squad

Switch Back

Max Mustard

Pavlov for TTT mode. It is one of the best MP titles around. It's one of the most underrated MP games out there.

It's basically Among Us with guns, that works because of VR.

Both Arizona Sunshine games are good.

 

[PanzerCute]

I reset it by pressing the tiny reset button in a pinhole with a paperclip.

I haven't played another game yet but will try to in order to eliminate whether this issue is isolated or not.

The bow disappers as soon as I grab it.

As XXL mentioned, try resetting and recalibrating everything and if the issue is still there, you might just have been unlucky and received a faulty unit.

Maybe try also reinstalling the game in the case you dont have the issue in other games. I just read a post of someone saying one thing that worked for them is to launch the game with Dualsense, and only turn on the sense controlers when the game asks for it.

Hope that helps. Worst case scenario you will have to send it back to Sony and get a new one. It takes 5 to 7 days generally. I have been there...

 

[havoc00]

Pavlov for TTT mode. It is one of the best MP titles around. It's one of the most underrated MP games out there.

It's basically Among Us with guns, that works because of VR.

Both Arizona Sunshine games are good.

What’s the population like on Pavlov now?

 

[MarkMe2525]

Sony bringing out hand tracking was a big shock to me, I figured PSVR2 was getting the Vita treatment. I wonder if this is to broaden the type of games that can be released on the platform, or they plan on bringing more utility to the headset.

VR is much more than gaming, and handtracking really shines in social experiences. Controller-less control is also great for media control, quickly pause, play, or skip, without having to feel around for a controller, and is appreciated when the controllers don't have amazing battery life.

 

[Unknown?]

Sony bringing out hand tracking was a big shock to me, I figured PSVR2 was getting the Vita treatment. I wonder if this is to broaden the type of games that can be released on the platform, or they plan on bringing more utility to the headset.

VR is much more than gaming, and handtracking really shines in social experiences. Controller-less control is also great for media control, quickly pause, play, or skip, without having to feel around for a controller, and is appreciated when the controllers don't have amazing battery life.

Will be cool to see how it gets utilized. I'd imagine it would be cool for mystery games where its slow paced and you have to pick up clues.

 

[XXL]

What’s the population like on Pavlov now?

Good. It's cross play with PC. It has a dedicated base.

 

[XXL]

Sony bringing out hand tracking was a big shock to me, I figured PSVR2 was getting the Vita treatment. I wonder if this is to broaden the type of games that can be released on the platform, or they plan on bringing more utility to the headset.

VR is much more than gaming, and handtracking really shines in social experiences. Controller-less control is also great for media control, quickly pause, play, or skip, without having to feel around for a controller, and is appreciated when the controllers don't have amazing battery life.

Imo. They should be bringing more apps to PS5. Like Google Earth, etc. Some of those apps are fucking amazing. I spend hours in Google Earth VR on PC.

 

[Crayon]

Only got to try behemoth today. So far I'm meh on it. I stayed totally blind after the first trailer I saw, so maybe I don't fully understand the game yet.

I will say, I found myself thinking about vr melee combat. And as of now, I don't think 1:1 gameplay is the way forward. Gesture-based will end up better.

Waggle will be better.
The irony.

1:1 fighting is an obvious concept for vr, but it's also naive in a way. It's one thing to try to get it to control right and react consistently, but even if you can finally get all that right it's still missing that element of timing that typical videogame combat can do so well; Set animations with their specific frame data that can be balanced against that of the enemies.

This game does well to make 1:1 motion fights work, but there's barely a hint of satisfying gameyness to it.

I said a long time ago that I've had it with the vr climbing. And since, I've even thought that call of the Mountain was a terrible way to introduce the psvr2. So heavily emphasizing all that climbing when they had that excellent combat system (that everyone booed on the way in) that could have easily carried a game of that length. Those fights where very gamey and better for it.

For those that haven't tried it, you're limited to orbiting a set track around a battleground. I know that sounds horrible but between weapon balance, enemy patterns, and item placement, it was a lot of fun and an honest challenge. You know- video game stuff.

So I was over climbing and I think now I'm over this air guitar swordfighting. I'm going to give it name.

I'm over Larping.

So my mind is obviously drifting playing it. I need to go back in rn and give this game a fair shake.

Edit:fair number of typos and crappy punctuation, sorry

 

[fart town usa]

Only got to try behemoth today. So far I'm meh on it. I stayed totally blind after the first trailer I saw, so maybe I don't fully understand the game yet.

I will say, I found myself thinking about vr melee combat. And as of now, I don't think 1:1 gameplay is the way forward. Gesture-based will end up better.

Waggle.
The irony.

1:1 fighting is an obvious concept for vr but it's also naive in a way. It's one thing to try to get it to control right and recr consistently, etc. Even if you can get all that nailed though, it's still missing that element of timing the typical videogame combat can do so well. Set animations with their specific frame data that can be balanced against that of the enemies.

This game does well to make 1:1 motion fights work, but there's barely a hint of satisfying gameyness into it.

I said a long time ago that I've had it with the vr climbing. And since I've even thought that call of the Mountain was a terrible way to introduce the system. So heavily emphasizing all that climbing when they had that excellent combat system (that everyone booed on the way in) that could have easily carried a game of that length. Those fights where very gamey and better for it.

For those that haven't tried it, you're limited to orbiting a set track around a battleground. I know that sounds horrible but between weapon balance, enemy patters, and item placement, it was a lot of fun and an honest challenge. You know, video game stuff.

So I was over climbing and I think now I'm over this air guitar swordfighting. I'm going to give it name.

I'm over Larping.

So my mind is obviously drifting playing it. I need to go back in rn and give this game a fair shake.

Agree with Horizon conbat, it's like OOT Z-targeting. Fun and fluid to me.

Also agree completely with the 1:1 combat, it worked in Legendary Tales but the physics feel infinitely better in that game. Behemoth feels like they took the melee in Saints and Sinners and slapped it onto a conpletely different game. It just feels awful at times, I'm hopeful the patch on the 12th tweaks the physics.

 

[Unknown?]

Just a couple questions I'm sure have already been answered...

1) Why did they go from pancake lenses in PSVR1 to inferior fresnel lenses in PSVR2?
2) One of the reasons that, despite lower resolution than some headsets, PSVR1 had lower screen door effect is each pixel had 3 subpixels. Does PSVR2 still have those sub pixels or did they feel they weren't necessary with the higher resolution?

 

[Romulus]

Just a couple questions I'm sure have already been answered...

1) Why did they go from pancake lenses in PSVR1 to inferior fresnel lenses in PSVR2?
2) One of the reasons that, despite lower resolution than some headsets, PSVR1 had lower screen door effect is each pixel had 3 subpixels. Does PSVR2 still have those sub pixels or did they feel they weren't necessary with the higher resolution?

2 things.

Psvr1 didn't have pancake lenses. They're a newer design that very few headsets use.

Secondly, psvr2 is superior to psvr1 in clarity. There's mura with psvr2 that's distracting at times but it's worth it over psvr1.

Not to mention pcvr compatibility etc etc that psvr1 couldn't do.

 

[Minsc]

Just a couple questions I'm sure have already been answered...

1) Why did they go from pancake lenses in PSVR1 to inferior fresnel lenses in PSVR2?
2) One of the reasons that, despite lower resolution than some headsets, PSVR1 had lower screen door effect is each pixel had 3 subpixels. Does PSVR2 still have those sub pixels or did they feel they weren't necessary with the higher resolution?

PlayStation VR2 vs Meta Quest 3 vs PlayStation VR (Comparison) - VRcompare

View a full technical comparison between the PlayStation VR2, Meta Quest 3 and PlayStation VR.

vr-compare.com

See there, for lens type. Pancake is the clearest of all, by a fair amount. You can't do pancake + OLED because OLED isn't bright enough for pancake lens. Apple Vision Pro uses Micro OLED which is brighter and more expensive so they can combine it with pancake.

There's no screen door effect with PSVR2 or Quest 3, at least not like there is on lower resolution headsets.

 

[Unknown?]

2 things.

Psvr1 didn't have pancake lenses. They're a newer design that very few headsets use.

Secondly, psvr2 is superior to psvr1 in clarity. There's mura with psvr2 that's distracting at times but it's worth it over psvr1.

Not to mention pcvr compatibility etc etc that psvr1 couldn't do.

From what I'm aware the PSVR1 lenses were better than fresnal though, no? From what I've heard mural can be mitigated by dropping peak brightness to 70-80%.

 

[Unknown?]

PlayStation VR2 vs Meta Quest 3 vs PlayStation VR (Comparison) - VRcompare

View a full technical comparison between the PlayStation VR2, Meta Quest 3 and PlayStation VR.

vr-compare.com

See there, for lens type. Pancake is the clearest of all, by a fair amount. You can't do pancake + OLED because OLED isn't bright enough for pancake lens. Apple Vision Pro uses Micro OLED which is brighter and more expensive so they can combine it with pancake.

There's no screen door effect with PSVR2 or Quest 3, at least not like there is on lower resolution headsets.

Good link. Why did Sony change from three to two subpixels? Is it for any advantage?

 

[Oner]

Man, the first 5 minutes of experiencing Horizon Call of the Mountain have been amazing but the constant troubleshooting have been frustrating.

Everytime I start the game, my right controller won't respone so I have to reset it every single time for it to recognize.

Everytime I get to the bow and arrow in the tutorial and I pick up the bow. The bow then doesn't show and when I try to load a arrow and shoot it with the gesture nothing happens. When I do the motions, I feel the vibrations only to be let down in game.

Heavy SIGH

Same happened to my first order. Nothing I did would be a permanent fix, only a temporary one. Went back to store to exchange and the new one is perfect with ZERO issues.

 

[Romulus]

From what I'm aware the PSVR1 lenses were better than fresnal though, no? From what I've heard mural can be mitigated by dropping peak brightness to 70-80%.

The lenses weren't better. The resolution was god awful. Mura is noticeable in some games regardless of what we do. But again, its worth it to own PSVR2.

 

[PanzerCute]

Mura is not that bad imo, apart from very specific stuff like the first scene in RE8 or the night maps of Kayak.

It is always noticeable if you want to see it, but it is really a non issue while playing.

And imo, I prefer to have HDR and OLED with a bit of mura than clear pancake LCD with weak contrast and lighting, but that is obviously just personal preferences.

 

[Minsc]

Good link. Why did Sony change from three to two subpixels? Is it for any advantage?

No, I'm not that well-versed unfortunately, reading here shows a bit of math/numbers in favor of the PSVR2's higher resolution:

"PPD would be a better way for comparison

Psvr1: 9 PPD

PSVR2: 18 PPD

So same result

But psvr1 had an full RGB oled panel and psvr2 uses a pentile screen (less subpixels) so in reality its not quite 2x as sharp but more like 75% sharper lol"

"The PSVR1s resolution is 960x1080
The PSVR2s resolution is 2000x2040"

1/3 less subpixels, but 4x the resolution or 2x the PPD - pixels per degree.

Mura is not that bad imo, apart from very specific stuff like the first scene in RE8 or the night maps of Kayak.

It is always noticeable if you want to see it, but it is really a non issue while playing.

And imo, I prefer to have HDR and OLED with a bit of mura than clear pancake LCD with weak contrast and lighting, but that is obviously just personal preferences.

Most recent example of terrible mura is Metro Awakening, it gets really rough in the dark areas of that game too.

 

[RedC]

Same happened to my first order. Nothing I did would be a permanent fix, only a temporary one. Went back to store to exchange and the new one is perfect with ZERO issues.

Yeah, I'm just going to do a return for a new one at the best buy down the street from me.

 

[PanzerCute]

Most recent example of terrible mura is Metro Awakening, it gets really rough in the dark areas of that game too.

Yeah it is pretty noticeable in Metro, you are right.

 

[Wonko_C]

Only got to try behemoth today. So far I'm meh on it. I stayed totally blind after the first trailer I saw, so maybe I don't fully understand the game yet.

I will say, I found myself thinking about vr melee combat. And as of now, I don't think 1:1 gameplay is the way forward. Gesture-based will end up better.

Waggle.
The irony.

1:1 fighting is an obvious concept for vr but it's also naive in a way. It's one thing to try to get it to control right and recr consistently, etc. Even if you can get all that nailed though, it's still missing that element of timing the typical videogame combat can do so well. Set animations with their specific frame data that can be balanced against that of the enemies.

This game does well to make 1:1 motion fights work, but there's barely a hint of satisfying gameyness into it.

I said a long time ago that I've had it with the vr climbing. And since I've even thought that call of the Mountain was a terrible way to introduce the system. So heavily emphasizing all that climbing when they had that excellent combat system (that everyone booed on the way in) that could have easily carried a game of that length. Those fights where very gamey and better for it.

For those that haven't tried it, you're limited to orbiting a set track around a battleground. I know that sounds horrible but between weapon balance, enemy patters, and item placement, it was a lot of fun and an honest challenge. You know, video game stuff.

So I was over climbing and I think now I'm over this air guitar swordfighting. I'm going to give it name.

I'm over Larping.

So my mind is obviously drifting playing it. I need to go back in rn and give this game a fair shake.

I felt like that during my first play session too. I hated that I was not hitting correctly despite my brain telling me and my hands that I moved correctly, it feels even worse when you miss the target completely but you're pretty sure you were at the proper distance and angle. Batman Arkham Shadow did combat right, it FEELS like a video game, they could make a new Final Fight/Streets of Rage like this.

I've warmed up to it, though, I figured you have to "roleplay" a bit, kind of like we as kids used to play with imaginary swords and shit. There is still jank and it could be improved IMO (Dungeons of Eternity's melee is similar but better).

Still not a mindblowing experience but not horrible either.

 

[Romulus]

Mura is not that bad imo, apart from very specific stuff like the first scene in RE8 or the night maps of Kayak.

It is always noticeable if you want to see it, but it is really a non issue while playing.

And imo, I prefer to have HDR and OLED with a bit of mura than clear pancake LCD with weak contrast and lighting, but that is obviously just personal preferences.

I like having the option. For alot of games, the clarity of pancake lenses is a no contest. Other games, I prefer the deeper blacks of psvr2. I do feel the newer experimental contrast feature narrows the gap though.

 

[Crayon]

I've warmed up to it, though, I figured you have to "roleplay" a bit, kind of like we as kids used to play with imaginary swords and shit. There is still jank and it could be improved IMO (Dungeons of Eternity's melee is similar but better).

THIS^^^^

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but that helps me get my thoughts in line here.

With the one-to-one motion combat, the best they can really do is design it to facilitate me pretending to have a sword fight. That means it's similar to broader UI stuff, it has to be easy in a way with a low learning curve.

It's at odds with general gameplay concepts, though. Because those do need to challenge me and have a bit of a learning curve to be interesting. If I'm right, that would mean you can't please everyone with either a one-to-one setup or a gesture based combat. Like my example with the constrained combat of horizon, a lot of people would balk at the constraint of set, gesture-based moves.

They really did try so hard with behemoth, though. They tried to impose some rules with the way your weapon has to be coming in with a certain amount of inertia to make the hit. And I actually think the way objects interfere with each other like clanging your two weapons together is really well done. Still, I can't help but wonder if the game would be better with a simple waggle for sword strikes. Even as simple as Twilight princess. With a little input, proper looking sword strikes come out with consistent range and timing.

I could focus on my position and taking advantage of openings with the enemy's attacks etc. what's more, the developers could focus on those things too. They can make a tighter, more balanced game. And I'd say if the combat was more gamey fun, that would add more immersion by being fun in its own right and taking my mind off of my hand inputs. I bet it would actually gain immersion by just responding to little waggles.

I'm not saying one to one is a dead end. There's obviously a lot more to improve, and it will do a better job of facilitating my pretend sword fight. But it shouldnt be the only thing, or maybe even the default solution to sword fighting.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Mura is really annoying. Metro vr is the worst example. Feels like you are playing as the scarecrow with that f mesh net over your face.

Yes, oled blacks and colors are awesome, but nowadays I would prefer the clarity and no sweet spot issues from the pancake lenses.

 

[fart town usa]

THIS^^^^

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but that helps me get my thoughts in line here.

With the one-to-one motion combat, the best they can really do is design it to facilitate me pretending to have a sword fight. That means it's similar to broader UI stuff, it has to be easy in a way with a low learning curve.

It's at odds with general gameplay concepts, though. Because those do need to challenge me and have a bit of a learning curve to be interesting. If I'm right, that would mean you can't please everyone with either a one-to-one setup or a gesture based combat. Like my example with the constrained combat of horizon, a lot of people would balk at the constraint of set, gesture-based moves.

They really did try so hard with behemoth, though. They tried to impose some rules with the way your weapon has to be coming in with a certain amount of inertia to make the hit. And I actually think the way objects interfere with each other like clanging your two weapons together is really well done. Still, I can't help but wonder if the game would be better with a simple waggle for sword strikes. Even as simple as Twilight princess. With a little input, proper looking sword strikes come out with consistent range and timing.

I could focus on my position and taking advantage of openings with the enemy's attacks etc. what's more, the developers could focus on those things too. They can make a tighter, more balanced game. And I'd say if the combat was more gamey fun, that would add more immersion by being fun in its own right and taking my mind off of my hand inputs. I bet it would actually gain immersion by just responding to little waggles.

I'm not saying one to one is a dead end. There's obviously a lot more to improve, and it will do a better job of facilitating my pretend sword fight. But it shouldnt be the only thing, or maybe even the default solution to sword fighting.

Soul Covenant is a good example of waggle sword fighting done well. The game is barebones as hell but the enemies respond to your attacks and it feels effective. Couple in the perfect time parry/limited dodge and you have an engaging, albeit simplistic, combat system.

I think a fatal flaw with VR is how the idea of "VRAF" is seen as an inherent good thing to be pursued in game design and from my experience, it's pure cope at times. Some of these VRAF games, they only get a pass because it's VR and gamers are starved for VR games. If you took a serious flat gamer and gave them Behemoth, they'd laugh at you and be pushed further away from VR.

VR can provide immersion and spectacle but it's still the business of videogames. Slop game design is slop game design regardless of it being flat or VR.

I'd even say that Wizards for PSVR2 is superior to Behemoth in every way that matters and that game is using GESTURE based mechanics for combat, something even worse than waggle IMO.

All the same, I still like alot of aspects of Behemoth and am determined to git gud but it truly has some baked-in flaws that will hopefully be addressed. If Arken Age is as good as it looks, it's going to make Behemoth look like an outright disaster.

 

[Crayon]

Soul Covenant is a good example of waggle sword fighting done well. The game is barebones as hell but the enemies respond to your attacks and it feels effective. Couple in the perfect time parry/limited dodge and you have an engaging, albeit simplistic, combat system.

I think a fatal flaw with VR is how the idea of "VRAF" is seen as an inherent good thing to be pursued in game design and from my experience, it's pure cope at times. Some of these VRAF games, they only get a pass because it's VR and gamers are starved for VR games. If you took a serious flat gamer and gave them Behemoth, they'd laugh at you and be pushed further away from VR.

VR can provide immersion and spectacle but it's still the business of videogames. Slop game design is slop game design regardless of it being flat or VR.

I'd even say that Wizards for PSVR2 is superior to Behemoth in every way that matters and that game is using GESTURE based mechanics for combat, something even worse than waggle IMO.

All the same, I still like alot of aspects of Behemoth and am determined to git gud but it truly has some baked-in flaws that will hopefully be addressed. If Arken Age is as good as it looks, it's going to make Behemoth look like an outright disaster.

Yes 1000% all of this. I don't think I was delineating between gesture and waggle correctly, but you're right they're little different.

Especially resonating on the vraf issue. I've been ringing that bell for a while now. I can see that being assumed the way you have to go early on, but it's been years now. At least some of us have seen that for all the possibilities it opens up, there's just as many that it closes off. And some of the stuff it's closing off is what players crave... Tight gameplay, balance, and fair challenge.

When those things are missing, people are going to reject the games. We've heard a million times people complain about a VR game saying that if it was flat nobody would care. There's some issues with that pithy statement, but there's also a lot of truth to it.

 

[havoc00]

The more games I play and the more time I have with this, I think it works the best when it leans into more gimmicky things and really leaning into the vr aspects instead of trying to be more video gamey. For example Im having a blast with Synth Riders, Crisis Brigade 2, Pistol Whip. Something like Legendary Tales, id much rather play on a traditional console, same with the newly released Behemoth. For me its best when it feels like its a home arcade or some Dave and Busters like experience.