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That is straight up adorable.
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Pokémon Community Thread 2: "This is the Real Power of Johto..."
- Thread starter ThatObviousUser
- Start date
That is straight up adorable.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I have been a little underwhelmed by it, too. I'd be more forgiving of a stock third version, even though this does a little more.
Dion Blaster
Member
How, in your opinion, does it compare to HGSS, Platinum, and BW1?
tiggerkiddo
Member
May I ask why? Wondering if your feelings match up with mine...
Not being able to surf Gaf at work keeps me really productive (Aka, don't bother with break time and just keep working)
tiggerkiddo
Member
You are a good person.
Nocturnowl
Member
So is it safe to say a lot of us are in fact kind of underwhelmed by Black/White 2?
No amount of superior endgame fluff can make up for the massive step back in the central game.
No amount of superior endgame fluff can make up for the massive step back in the central game.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
OK, Ike, you found my total weakpoint! *melts into a puddle of cuteness*
UltimateIke
Member
I still stand by my earlier statement that B2/W2 are better games, but having already experienced Unova once, it was a lot more fun the first time.
Also, endgame fluff is pretty important; that's historically the only reason to buy the "third" versions of the games. Getting a different central game is just a bonus this time.
I'm glad it meets the requirements for your cuteness seal of approval!
Also, endgame fluff is pretty important; that's historically the only reason to buy the "third" versions of the games. Getting a different central game is just a bonus this time.
I'm glad it meets the requirements for your cuteness seal of approval!
Exterminieren
Banned
Quite the opposite for me, I'm afraid. Minor pacing problems in the Plasma plot were the only real major faults I had with it. The content's richer, the characters are better, the Pokemon distribution is godlike and the new areas are really pretty great.
I'd be interested what massive step back in the main game you see, particularly in comparison to every game which isn't Black and White.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Here, here!
BW2 are undoubtedly my favourite games in the series, and there are very, very few things wrong with it.
I'd honestly like to know how the pacing of say, the Team Galactic plot is better than that of the Plasma one in this game, aside from it taking place from Gyms 6-7 and before 8 instead of 7-8 and beyond. Ghetsis is the more evil villain too, so it has that going for it too.
I much prefer BW1's story to BW2's. The ending especially felt anticlimactic compared to BW1's ending.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
What I didn't like about B2W2's plot is that barely anything happened. Like, less than usual.
All in all, an improvement over a third version, but not quite up to the sequel standards "2" would suggest.
They froze Opelucid which was cool (literally), but that's about it and it didn't happen until after the seventh gym.
Ghetsis and N showed up at the end for like five minutes. Ghetsis himself basically pulled a Ganon-in-Twilight-Princess only with even less time for himself. None of the underlings were fleshed out, they were all generic, except for Colress and two of the sages (who were established in the previous game.)
The world design is also extremely poor as I mentioned before. "Sorry, I'm blocking you from going through this door for some reason!" Repeat ad nauseum.
The new areas are cool but they mostly riff on cooler places from previous games. Stark Mountain anyone?
Ghetsis and N showed up at the end for like five minutes. Ghetsis himself basically pulled a Ganon-in-Twilight-Princess only with even less time for himself. None of the underlings were fleshed out, they were all generic, except for Colress and two of the sages (who were established in the previous game.)
The world design is also extremely poor as I mentioned before. "Sorry, I'm blocking you from going through this door for some reason!" Repeat ad nauseum.
The new areas are cool but they mostly riff on cooler places from previous games. Stark Mountain anyone?
All in all, an improvement over a third version, but not quite up to the sequel standards "2" would suggest.
People can still complain, which leads to a mod even more disoriented than I was coming in and making decisions that pan out to be more unfair as a result.
Such is the burden of neglect.
Chet Rippo
Member
I was just making a joke. I'm aware how the moderation works.
Though I have noticed a few times where a thread that gets accidentally posted in the community sections either takes forever to get moved to the right section, or never gets moved at all. Though it seems better now then it once was.
tiggerkiddo
Member
The fact that from Driftveil until Opelucid, which is a pretty sizable gap...nothing happens at all. You're teased about Plasma in Reversal Mountain but that's about it. Too many times the plot just takes a nap...what about the Team Plasma loyal to N? Why aren't there more fights between the two of them? Why do we barely hear from them?
I'm gonna make a post in the OT when I'm finished. Only at the 5th badge right now due to midterms and fucking Resident Evil 6... ugh.
Tough question. So far, it's definitely worse than BW1 and HGSS. Platinum... I really didn't like. I'll probably compare it to the other Pokemon games in my quasi review once I finish the game.
ohohohoho
Exterminieren
Banned
Yes? The Plasma plot isn't particularly well done, but it isn't even close to game-wrecking. In fact, I might call it... minor.
And I don't think that the issues have really kicked in by the fifth gym, anyway.
Chet Rippo
Member
Pokemon needs less plot.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Pokemon has a plot?
They certainly try. They should stop.
Exterminieren
Banned
...Why?
Surely for you BW2 has a better plot than BW because it's less intrusive, right?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I'll give them an A for effort.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Just quit while you're ahead. I learned a long time ago that you can't really win an argument with Anth0ny, no matter how valid your points are.
Just take solace in the knowledge that we're both right
Nocturnowl
Member
Massive step back is an exaggeration on my part, i'm in a bit of a grouchy mood today I guess. Oh and i'm just comparing to B/W here.
But i'll take you up on some of these points...
*Spoilers for both Unova games*
- The new rival is pretty sucktaculer, he has two strings of dialogue revolving around "WHERE'S TEAM PLASMAAAA?!" and " WHERE'S THE PURRRRRRLOOOOOIN?!" which he probably yells like Christian Bale Batman.
I much preferred the trio of childhood friends angle seen in B/W right down to the light hearted battle theme, different angles for both friends, Bianca not being so sure of herself as a trainer while Cheren is more direct yet trying to figure out what he lacks.
Cheren is quite well represented in Black 2 though, random point: why do half the people you team up with have Stoutland?!
Plus N is essentially another rival in that game, the more serious one as well which was needed as since G/S Pokemon seems to have abandoned having a more direct rival.
So basically I went from those three to this one new guy who embodies no interesting qualities, he'd fit in well back in Gen 3.
Other new characters? well Colress and the two new gym leaders are really the only central new ones left, they're not bad (well Marlon is a tad lacking) but standing amongst the previous B/W characters they're pretty tame. Though I guess when you say characters are better you mean the old cast are improved upon, i'd agree here for the most part.
- New areas are a mixed bag, the new areas at the start off from the more central map of Unova are all solid, the extra caves, sewers and mountain region elsewhere not so much. Compare say Relic Passage, Seaside Cave and Reversal Mountain to Chargestone Cave and Twist Mountain, the new caves are really par the course style caves, sort of like the ones you'd see in Pokemon G/S (minus Ice Path) with nothing really interesting going on in progression through the cave and Pokemon distribution within.
Meanwhile Chargestone Cave might be my favourite Cave in the series with a great selection of pokemon unique to it and the charged crystal angle, Twist Mountain has an interesting approach to scale with the crater like middle section as well as how Winter changes the layout, the new caves are pedestrian by comparison to these so it feels like a step back
Victory Road itself is a big one for me, B/W has you scale a rather large but not too long vertical cliff face, it's pretty unique as far as VR is concerned, B/W2 just sort of went all gauntlet on you, it's not bad but it's bloody huuuuge in a game that was already pretty long for the main story, I felt that they overdid it, the gap between badge 8 and the pokemon league is pretty mammoth.
I did like the town with the eighth gym though, the revamped gyms with their own themes were great as well.
- Plasma's role was a downright letdown, B/W was hardly a masterclass in evil villainy and plot but the underlying theme they pushed about whether it was right or wrong to keep Pokemon was a more inspired angle even if it was all an obvious facade (not that N knew of course), the repeated encounters with N and occasionally Ghetsis really pushed them as a central part of the story to the point where the main game itself finishes in unexpectedly grand fashion of castle out of nowhere, two final boss battles with a legendary pokemon encounter and a final boss theme that has like a whole minute of ominous percussion, damn that felt fresh and kind of inspired after every game since like Red/Blue.
B2 mostly dials things back, Plasma seem to be doing their best Gen 2 Team Rocket impression, that being looking like an absolute shambles with laughable attempts at villainy and lacking a central boss figure to rally around for some time since Ghetsis is simply working from afar, Colress is more of a mystery and as soon as he goes all shocking twist on the player he then throws in the villain towel like immediately after, though it's sort of stressed that he's not so much a bad guy as someone who just wants to find the best way to maximise pokemon potential.
So that leaves us with some chump sage guy as the main antagonist for like a good portion of the game and even then he enters the fray quite late on.
After doing nothing all game they finally pull something off after Gym 7, cutting things pretty late there guys, ICE CANNON! at last, a team almost as stupid as Team Aqua! Neo Plasma are all about that rule by force motto so I guess this is basically terrorism. Neo Plasm only really have two main "dungeon" areas and both of them are in fact the ship with the second trip coming right near the finish and cramming as much as they can into that one last hurrah.
Sage guy, Colress, Shadow Triad, Grand Chasm, Kyurem, Ghetsis reveal, N arrival, Dragon Fusion, all within like the same segment of the game. It's a bit much, you'd think that they could have spaced this all out a bit better since they spent a lot of the game doing pretty much nothing.
Then of course the game ends with champion battle and the pleasant piano credits, back to the status quo.
- Really a personal point here, new pokemon distrbution doesn't mean much for me, I loved B/W a lot because it was nothing but new guys. Bringing in the old guys makes perfect sense for this one but honestly I barely care for the ones they brought over. The selection at the start is great but it kind of tapers off. The new journey through the map post badge 6 was not in my favour, throws a bunch of the new B/W lineup on the backburner in favour of routes where I kept seeing Solrock, Lunatone, Driftblim all over the place. Sawk and Throh go from being early game acquisitions to the back end, would it have hurt to move Golett into the ghost house or celestial tower since Dragonspiral was pushed into post game? instead Golurk and Druddigon as well for that matter get lobbed in victory road, boo-urns (not that I care for that Dragon but anyway).
Poor old Heatmor and Durant, they got pushed even out of victory road.
Still nowhere near as bad as D/P at least where it was like why the hell are the Gen 1 mainstays everywhere? and the new Hippo meanwhile was shoved in a cave with the most random of criteria needed to get it to actually turn up, once again I say thank Arceus for Platinum.
Still it's a massive dex but it turns out the back half of the Unova dex is in fact post game for the most part, usually this would be where things just go all national dex, maybe they could've moved some of these later guys into earlier main game routes if they were going to be specifically part of the Unova dex, feels a bit like a bait and switch.
Oh and forced use ( I think) of doing Riolu Man at Pokewood studios is going to suck on replays.
I much preferred the trio of childhood friends angle seen in B/W right down to the light hearted battle theme, different angles for both friends, Bianca not being so sure of herself as a trainer while Cheren is more direct yet trying to figure out what he lacks.
Cheren is quite well represented in Black 2 though, random point: why do half the people you team up with have Stoutland?!
Plus N is essentially another rival in that game, the more serious one as well which was needed as since G/S Pokemon seems to have abandoned having a more direct rival.
So basically I went from those three to this one new guy who embodies no interesting qualities, he'd fit in well back in Gen 3.
Other new characters? well Colress and the two new gym leaders are really the only central new ones left, they're not bad (well Marlon is a tad lacking) but standing amongst the previous B/W characters they're pretty tame. Though I guess when you say characters are better you mean the old cast are improved upon, i'd agree here for the most part.
- New areas are a mixed bag, the new areas at the start off from the more central map of Unova are all solid, the extra caves, sewers and mountain region elsewhere not so much. Compare say Relic Passage, Seaside Cave and Reversal Mountain to Chargestone Cave and Twist Mountain, the new caves are really par the course style caves, sort of like the ones you'd see in Pokemon G/S (minus Ice Path) with nothing really interesting going on in progression through the cave and Pokemon distribution within.
Meanwhile Chargestone Cave might be my favourite Cave in the series with a great selection of pokemon unique to it and the charged crystal angle, Twist Mountain has an interesting approach to scale with the crater like middle section as well as how Winter changes the layout, the new caves are pedestrian by comparison to these so it feels like a step back
Victory Road itself is a big one for me, B/W has you scale a rather large but not too long vertical cliff face, it's pretty unique as far as VR is concerned, B/W2 just sort of went all gauntlet on you, it's not bad but it's bloody huuuuge in a game that was already pretty long for the main story, I felt that they overdid it, the gap between badge 8 and the pokemon league is pretty mammoth.
I did like the town with the eighth gym though, the revamped gyms with their own themes were great as well.
- Plasma's role was a downright letdown, B/W was hardly a masterclass in evil villainy and plot but the underlying theme they pushed about whether it was right or wrong to keep Pokemon was a more inspired angle even if it was all an obvious facade (not that N knew of course), the repeated encounters with N and occasionally Ghetsis really pushed them as a central part of the story to the point where the main game itself finishes in unexpectedly grand fashion of castle out of nowhere, two final boss battles with a legendary pokemon encounter and a final boss theme that has like a whole minute of ominous percussion, damn that felt fresh and kind of inspired after every game since like Red/Blue.
B2 mostly dials things back, Plasma seem to be doing their best Gen 2 Team Rocket impression, that being looking like an absolute shambles with laughable attempts at villainy and lacking a central boss figure to rally around for some time since Ghetsis is simply working from afar, Colress is more of a mystery and as soon as he goes all shocking twist on the player he then throws in the villain towel like immediately after, though it's sort of stressed that he's not so much a bad guy as someone who just wants to find the best way to maximise pokemon potential.
So that leaves us with some chump sage guy as the main antagonist for like a good portion of the game and even then he enters the fray quite late on.
After doing nothing all game they finally pull something off after Gym 7, cutting things pretty late there guys, ICE CANNON! at last, a team almost as stupid as Team Aqua! Neo Plasma are all about that rule by force motto so I guess this is basically terrorism. Neo Plasm only really have two main "dungeon" areas and both of them are in fact the ship with the second trip coming right near the finish and cramming as much as they can into that one last hurrah.
Sage guy, Colress, Shadow Triad, Grand Chasm, Kyurem, Ghetsis reveal, N arrival, Dragon Fusion, all within like the same segment of the game. It's a bit much, you'd think that they could have spaced this all out a bit better since they spent a lot of the game doing pretty much nothing.
Then of course the game ends with champion battle and the pleasant piano credits, back to the status quo.
- Really a personal point here, new pokemon distrbution doesn't mean much for me, I loved B/W a lot because it was nothing but new guys. Bringing in the old guys makes perfect sense for this one but honestly I barely care for the ones they brought over. The selection at the start is great but it kind of tapers off. The new journey through the map post badge 6 was not in my favour, throws a bunch of the new B/W lineup on the backburner in favour of routes where I kept seeing Solrock, Lunatone, Driftblim all over the place. Sawk and Throh go from being early game acquisitions to the back end, would it have hurt to move Golett into the ghost house or celestial tower since Dragonspiral was pushed into post game? instead Golurk and Druddigon as well for that matter get lobbed in victory road, boo-urns (not that I care for that Dragon but anyway).
Poor old Heatmor and Durant, they got pushed even out of victory road.
Still nowhere near as bad as D/P at least where it was like why the hell are the Gen 1 mainstays everywhere? and the new Hippo meanwhile was shoved in a cave with the most random of criteria needed to get it to actually turn up, once again I say thank Arceus for Platinum.
Still it's a massive dex but it turns out the back half of the Unova dex is in fact post game for the most part, usually this would be where things just go all national dex, maybe they could've moved some of these later guys into earlier main game routes if they were going to be specifically part of the Unova dex, feels a bit like a bait and switch.
Oh and forced use ( I think) of doing Riolu Man at Pokewood studios is going to suck on replays.
Now then as for the games actual quality, technically it's still the best and most refined game yet so really all this massive listing is like minor quibbles in the grand scheme of things.
In case no one has gathered at this point I like to just build my team up through the main game and not prepare a well bred team by cracking eggs and trading them over.
It's been too long since I played Platinum, all I remember is that the distortion world blew chunks. Still Galactic had admins and cronies around the valley windworks, the building in Eterna, that big warehouse in Veilstone and the gauntlet up Mt Coronet itself. At least they had greater presence I can say that much.
Plus they nuked a lake or something.
Neo Team Plasma meanwhile run from yapping dogs and a kid with a purloin fixation.
This as well, the actual pacing for not just Plasma but even the standard game progression goes a bit bonkers at one point.
"we need to go see Drayden as soon as possible! unfortunately we can only go by plane because like every path in this game there's an inconvenience preventing anyone from actually travelling anywhere so we'll drop you off in this remote desert area half the map away from Drayden because it's the only other runway around", Oh Skyla, no ones going to take your airport seriously like this. Of course it's all an excuse to change the map progression but those formerly post game routes just don't mesh as well as the previous routes across Unova.
and of course as I said they cause a fair few of the new guys to be cast aside, meanwhile legends throw themselves in your path just because.
and of course as I said they cause a fair few of the new guys to be cast aside, meanwhile legends throw themselves in your path just because.
Don't get me wrong, they're still great games but its like in the effort to make things different they sort of bungled a lot of what made me enjoy the original B/W games in the first place. If you like B2/W2 more then that's fine but it's just not quite the penultimate super game I was hoping for, even if it essentially is from a content point of view.
Still beats the standard third version criteria though, at least I have reasons to go through both, Pearl and Ruby were abandoned to time, Black still has a chance for a replay now though I tend to use the original versions as a pokemon box collecting device.
How the hell did I write so much?!
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Mmm, there's a bit of an anticlimax in the game. Not that it matters, as a lot of things need closure at that point. I'd probably chalk it up to a type advantage favouring my side.
It's a bit sad, though.
Also, I can finally Zorua and Turtwig on my desk again, on another topic.
It's a bit sad, though.
Also, I can finally Zorua and Turtwig on my desk again, on another topic.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Do away with the evil teams at least. If there has to be an evil team, make it a side quest you can tackle...like are all of the evil teams interested in shaking up the world?
Exterminieren
Banned
Just because I'm curious, not because I'm trying to call you out; what would you replace them with? Just keep the gyms?
That would be pretty boring. I'd say drop the gyms and make the player the evil team.
Professor Beef
Banned
Just quit while you're ahead. I learned a long time ago that you can't really win an argument with Anth0ny, no matter how valid your points are.
Just take solace in the knowledge that we're both right
How condescending of you.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I think you would have to expand some of the other modes. Like with the Pokemon League, there should be more oppurtunies to enter tournaments against CPU controlled opponents, ones where you can actually get experience from. Bring back the Pokeathelon and expand that more with more events. Do more with the musicals. You can still have Pokemon criminals but they should stop trying to shoehorn them into the main plot...maybe they're just a petty group of thieves. I mean Hoehn would have been even cooler if you could have sailed the seas and tangled with pirates interested in nothing more than stealing Pokemon from swimmers. Put even more emphasis on exploring with more varied locals and areas...
Also expand Pokestar Studios, allow for more scenarios and more varied options. Bring back the Safari Zone but do contests like the Bug Catching Contest or the Poison Collecting contest. Why not give the player the ability to form little clubs tailored to a specific interest, allow them to recruit other players. Bring back and expand the Hidden Base system...blah blah blah...
RBY Plot:
-Beat Trainers get Money
-Gary Oak got more swag than you SMELL YA LATER
-Mewtwo fuck up some shit
lol
Non-evil team stuff still counts as plot, right?
If so, the plot of B2 has been more intrusive and slow paced during the first four gyms than in the entirety of B1.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I try.
I don't know how I'd survive without my 4 DSes and 2 (soon to be 4) 3DSes.
Professor Beef
Banned
I need a DSi badly. I'm tired of being locked out of internet stuff because my shitty DSLite doesn't want to connect to my router.
buy a 3ds
3ds has no games
ScraftyDevil
Banned
It has all the games.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
It will have Pokemon
Skyfireblaze
Member
I'm debating of getting a DS Lite next to my 3DS for Pokémon trading and things though with the upcoming Wii U and a broken headset which I need to replace I guess that's rather not a wise thing to do
Also I just beat the 5th gym in White 1 and got a step closer to playing White 2!
Also I just beat the 5th gym in White 1 and got a step closer to playing White 2!
Exterminieren
Banned
He's going to have to get one eventually...
If 3ds has no games then Vita must be in the negatives for them lol.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Just wait until Ace Attorney 5. I'm sure he'll crack eventually!
tiggerkiddo
Member
It has Mario Kart 7 at least. That's a pretty fun game all things considered.
Professor Beef
Banned
I don't buy systems for one game only. As much as I love Ace Attorney, it's simply not going to be enough to make me get a 3DS.