The way they could have Ash win is by instead of having a league in the last season, have the entire final season be challenging the Elite 4. Make it like Battle Frontier. He beats them all, challenges the champion, wins and then decides to travel again by turning down the position. I'd really like that. I really liked Battle Frontier because there was no league, TBH.
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Pokémon Community Thread 4: "Your Portal to What's Hip and Happening in Sinnoh!"
- Thread starter UltimateIke
- Start date
dakkumauji
Member
tying team flare with the league is a pretty smart idea
makes it easier to tie up these two last big plot points in the series before they move on to the next region and there's a decent amount of time to not have to rush through this for once
makes it easier to tie up these two last big plot points in the series before they move on to the next region and there's a decent amount of time to not have to rush through this for once
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Honestly if they play their cards right Lysandre could very well be the best "team leader" anime incarnation.
MaximumSpider
Banned
Even if Ash won the league, it wouldn't be the end of the series. He'll probably say "Alright, off to the Alola region!" and reset again.
Professor Beef
Banned
That's more or less what he did after the Orange League. He heard about Johto and basically said "sign me up."
Shadow Broker
Banned
Would be cool if he won the league and did the league of champion thing along with the Flare plot and after when the Alola Region starts it's fast forwarded to his kid starting off on his aventure with Serena moving to that region.
dakkumauji
Member
honestly if anyone should replace ash in the next region, it should be bonnie
MAtgS
Member
Oh they could, you know, have a new protagonist next generation. Like the games do. Or like manga does. Or like what the anime SHOULD'VE been doing post-johto.
Should've been Bulbasaur instead of Pikachu, but I still want that figure.
Red looks spiffy
Professor Beef
Banned
You...don't watch a lot of anime, I take it
And it was fucking boring as Ash took his team with him which made him way to OP.
Why waste time in setting up a new character when they can cut to the chase and use Ash who is already established.
Plus it's the journey that's important and not the end goal.
While changing protagonists isn't common in anime, neither is frequently resetting the protagonist's skills/knowledge while sending them on a new journey and keeping them stuck at the same age. Especially while simultaneously retaining memory of past adventures and having old characters come back.
Even long running shounen series at least usually allow their characters to age/have time skips etc.
Edit: Also what kind of Pokemon Master, or wannabe Pokemon Master, goes through 6 regions and some extra areas and acquires a grand total of 40-ish Pokemon? Ignoring the millions of Tauros. He's obtained 5 Pokemon in Kalos, one of which he released but will hopefully come back.
MAtgS
Member
Boy do I hate that saying, always used as an excuse for shit endings. & what time is being wasted exactly? It takes just as much time to explain why Ash is travelling to a new region & to acquaint him to the new locals. & again, games & manga handle this just fine. When each roughly has roughly a 150+ episodes & most of that is filler anyway, it can't really be said that there isn't any time to waste.
It's an incredible abuse of the audience's trust & faith in a tv series when said series spends 3 long years building up to something, not having the pay off, & then doing it all over again. I haven't actually watched the show since about a year into Advance, I just keep taps on it every so often from Serebii & here. At that point I realized that the only things I wanted to see happen on the show were things I knew could only happen if it was ending: Ash becoming a Poke'mon Master (a term so vaguely defined it could mean anything), the fall of Team Rocket, & yes even Pokeshipping. Since the show became something I knew would never give what I wanted I stopped watching. Every time I check up on what's been happening I've yet to be convinced I should watch again.
Which brings me to the biggest reason for changing protagonists: letting me say properly good bye.
After Poke'mon I refuse to watch any other on-gong animes & stick to those that actually have endings.
Multiple protags can work. Look at Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.
However, one thing I wouldn't want is a new protagonist constantly having to learn how to battle, which is the main reason Best Wishes was shit. Hell, even Hoenn had that problem, to an extent. It's really jarring that Ash has to look inexperienced when a new series starts.
Sinnoh managed to sidestep that (to an extent) by having a rival who's just as experienced. Paul challenged multiple leagues prior to Sinnoh.
Edit: I think the battle against Team Galactic is the most grand fight of the series. There's the 3 legendary trio tied to Ash and co., Cynthia and Gary show up, and Dialga and Palkia, two GODS show up. That's pretty hype. Also, Pokemon Hunter J dies.
However, one thing I wouldn't want is a new protagonist constantly having to learn how to battle, which is the main reason Best Wishes was shit. Hell, even Hoenn had that problem, to an extent. It's really jarring that Ash has to look inexperienced when a new series starts.
Sinnoh managed to sidestep that (to an extent) by having a rival who's just as experienced. Paul challenged multiple leagues prior to Sinnoh.
Edit: I think the battle against Team Galactic is the most grand fight of the series. There's the 3 legendary trio tied to Ash and co., Cynthia and Gary show up, and Dialga and Palkia, two GODS show up. That's pretty hype. Also, Pokemon Hunter J dies.
Shadow Broker
Banned
Damn.. at one point in time Charizard was my absolute favorite Pokémon and Charmander was my favorite starter. I always used my Charizard in competitive battles up until Mega Evolution became a thing and I stopped using Charizard altogether and stopped caring for it.
Your passion for Charmander is bringing back them old feels.
So I'm not sure if anyone else has spotted this here yet, but apparently USAopoly is releasing Monopoly: Pokemon Johto Edition later this year.
With alot of the recent focus on 2nd Gen lately with tournaments and merch I wonder if this is another possible hint of G/S/C coming to the 3DS Eshop in the near future?
With alot of the recent focus on 2nd Gen lately with tournaments and merch I wonder if this is another possible hint of G/S/C coming to the 3DS Eshop in the near future?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Just chiming in and say that the "reset" thing is an internet meme spouted by people who never watched the anime, or only watched BW, the only time Ash actually got a reset.
It's up there with Ash "only keeping non-evolved mons" and "James is a better trainer than Ash".
Who the hell says that James is a better trainer than Ash?!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
shitposters
also there's that macro image showing James caring for his pokemon with manipulative captions where naive, "people who only watch OS" folks will believe
I disagree, and I've re-watched the entirety of the anime in the past couple years. BW is the worst offender by far, but there were multiple times where Ash seemed less competent than he should be, which I consider to be a reset if only a minor one.
Edit: Perhaps "regress" is a better word? Either way, he's rarely quite as competent a trainer, or person, as he was at the end of the previous series.
Edit2: Hell, the reason this and preventing him from aging bugs me so much is precisely because I do watch the anime, and it drives me mad x.x They do character development episodes and stuff and it ends up being thrown out the window, until they want to pander to nostalgia and bring back old characters or Charizard. And it'll be incredibly annoying if they pull that after XY with how much progress they've made.
I argue the opposite. Even in BW, outside of the beginning and Elesa, Ash was fairly competent.
Character development also isn't "thrown out the window". You're taking things to extremes. So he hasn't aged? So what? Why is that integral?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I'll agree with everything else but there's no excusing BW he was terrible
He's gone through 6 regions and a number of other areas worth of adventures, gone through all kinds of situations, even without aging he should be more mature than he is. That's what I mean by throwing the character development out the window. If he wasn't regressing as a character, he wouldn't need others to be the mature ones in relation to him so often.
And the only excuse they have for making that work is the fact he hasn't aged.
Compare Ash of XY to Ash of OG, and Johto, and AG, and DP.
Like hell there has been regression and no development.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Meh I think he progressed well from pallet town all the way to the sinnoh league. Only time he legit had really bad regression was Bw.
Kanto-he was a new trainer
-Orange archipelago he won that league
-hoenn- started fresh with pikachu and he was like a mentor to both may and max
-sinnoh- start over again a bunch of strategies were used and he held his own(should've won)
-Unova-....ugh
-kalos he seems to be doing well as far as being a well developed character and even had someone following in his footsteps(that caught up absurdly fast but whatever)
This isn't my point at all -.-
In the previous series, like AG or DP, there were times where he'd shown regression or incompetence in situations he shouldn't have going from his past adventures.
You can't just look at XY, the series they've done the best job with, and act like none of the previous stuff had problems.
BW just happens to be the worst offender and highlight things the most.
I also never said there's no development. I've perhaps been hyperbolic with some of my statements, but my point stands that there's absolutely some level of regression with most of the series. Hell, even now if he was really on the same level as past series he really shouldn't have lost to Wulfric of all people with his current team, Talonflame plus the types of strategies he's used in the past would've handled it easily. But there's the whole learning about synchro stuff going on, so whatever.
You're making it out like I'm on an extreme side, when I'm not. I'm not even trying to say he has a major reset per se every region. He does progress some, but I remember feeling many times that he wasn't where he should be considering his past experiences. And they largely ignore that his older adventures happened until they do cameo episodes, which is what I meant about throwing things out the window. In XY you're more likely to see flashbacks to the seemingly retconned young Ash than experiences he's had as a trainer, for example.
You say that Ash acted as a mentor to May and Max, which is true, but he still had multiple episodes where he had to basically learn how to battle again, when he lost to Brawly, specifically. There was nothing specifically that was causing him to lose, aside from being an idiot.
Hoenn is like Jojo Phantom Blood where Ash had to relearn basic fighting with nothing fancy.
Sinnoh is like Jojo Battle Tendency where Ash learned a rather creative way of battling.
This could apply with OG and Johto and with BW and XY.
dakkumauji
Member
he lost to Brawly the first time cause he was mad at him to start with, impatient cause he wanted to a gym battle while Brawly was going to surf and underestimated the effect of surfing
he's rash and honestly, he's always been rash
so he got lost in the moment, which isn't new and doesn't seem like a regression or anything like that, just a character trait for him
you can't fault him for taking forever for the rematch if he was told to go to granite cave, see steven and gets roped up into a million other episode plots of the day along the way along with catching someone new and training them to get used to fighting with them
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Exactly this
Honestly the Unova arc is a good example why it's a bad and dumb idea to try and recapture gen 1 magic instead of building upon the Sinnoh arc and do it's own thing.
It's why Ash regression was annoying as he acting like his Kanto self again to which I am baffled to why they did that as the people who grew up watching the Kanto animé wouldn't be watching the Unova arc nor would they care to watch a retread of the same old.
Luckily the Unova arc did do it's own thing so it didn't exactly follow the Kanto arc entirely.
Ysssss Gen 2 pandering here we come.
I am actually expecting the gen 2 game to be released on virtual console as they are the only game not to be connected with other titles.
It's why Ash regression was annoying as he acting like his Kanto self again to which I am baffled to why they did that as the people who grew up watching the Kanto animé wouldn't be watching the Unova arc nor would they care to watch a retread of the same old.
Luckily the Unova arc did do it's own thing so it didn't exactly follow the Kanto arc entirely.
So I'm not sure if anyone else has spotted this here yet, but apparently USAopoly is releasing Monopoly: Pokemon Johto Edition later this year.
With alot of the recent focus on 2nd Gen lately with tournaments and merch I wonder if this is another possible hint of G/S/C coming to the 3DS Eshop in the near future?
Ysssss Gen 2 pandering here we come.
I am actually expecting the gen 2 game to be released on virtual console as they are the only game not to be connected with other titles.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I think you're confusing his team with his competency. Ash intently leaves out his old mons barring Pikachu to fully experience the new region so his old stuff won't work in the new one. I know what scenes you are referring to (like how he immediately threw a Pokeball at Taillow which May even joked) but I chalk it more on a) showing more of his recklessness, which is a trait he has even to this day and b) a gag.
And despite the "lol lv 100 Pikachu" meme, even back as far as OS, Pikachu is more of a dice-roll tier in terms of strength.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Pikachu isnt even his best pokemon just his best buddie....come at me
And also c) He could be over excited in seeing a new Pokémon in a new region.
Plus it reflect on the younger audiences who most likely do the same thing when playing Pokémon, I know that I have.
dakkumauji
Member
honestly pikachu just seems strong cause he's the go-to pokemon to blast away team rocket and by now, we all know they are and everything they ever make is highly susceptible to electricity
Professor Beef
Banned
If anything, they've grown resistant to electricity. Meowth commented on it when he was picking the lock of an electric cage.
dakkumauji
Member
doesn't stop their machines, robots, disguises to explode after being thunderbolted
PreyingShark
Member
Alright Level 25-ish team, time to take on Maylene and her level 32 Lucario!
...*busts out VS Seeker*
...*busts out VS Seeker*
Yup...
That's true, it would make sense to release Gen 2 on the Eshop before Sun/Moon so we can transfer those pokemon to them.
Yeah I sure hope gen 2 comes out on VC, especially since I could use the same thing I used to get my old Yellow save on my 3DS! Only thing is, my copies of GSC are dead, BUT I was smart enough to put a bunch of my old Pokemon on Pokemon Stadium 2! It'd be a trip to have my 16 year old Lugia and Ho-Oh join the Sun and Moon fun 
I'd really like that. My Crystal save recently corrupted and I don't want to play it on a Gameboy again.
The theme song to Sinnoh League Victors is bad.
Not75Drops
Member
So apparently the sound when Greninja reverts to normal is the same one used for Megas? I really don't know where they're going with the whole Ash-Greninja thing. It has some of Ash's features but they're not limiting it to the anime, it's also in spin-offs like Picross and has its own TCG card.
I still think that whole thing with Zygarde's cells was originally intended, and its forms were designed back during XY's development (with Thousand Waves/Arrows), but things changed and they decided to work with Sun/Moon. Do people think that Ash-Greninja will be in Sun/Moon as something else?
I still think that whole thing with Zygarde's cells was originally intended, and its forms were designed back during XY's development (with Thousand Waves/Arrows), but things changed and they decided to work with Sun/Moon. Do people think that Ash-Greninja will be in Sun/Moon as something else?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why can't they have this in the games?!
Also I find it funny that despite being Water type, when they showed Ash Greninja in the preview, he's all HOTBLOODED WITH FLAMES BEHIND HIM.
pokenchi trailer here
Yeah, I compared the sound. Same sfx although Greninja had a deeper "closing" tone. You could hear it more prominently in Ash vs Alain ep.
Also I find it funny that despite being Water type, when they showed Ash Greninja in the preview, he's all HOTBLOODED WITH FLAMES BEHIND HIM.
pokenchi trailer here
Yeah, I compared the sound. Same sfx although Greninja had a deeper "closing" tone. You could hear it more prominently in Ash vs Alain ep.
What time is the Pokémon Sun and Moon news is dropping on Thursday? I live in the UK.
The Japanese version is better as they had the superior song called "High Touch" which was sung by Ash and Dawn's Japanese voice actors.
It's better that Gym Leaders don't have mega as they are programmed to use them last even if they would have a type advantage.
Megas are not well designed for the main game.
I wonder if that's why it took so long for Ash to get a water starter to fully evolve.
The Japanese version is better as they had the superior song called "High Touch" which was sung by Ash and Dawn's Japanese voice actors.
Why can't they have this in the games?!
It's better that Gym Leaders don't have mega as they are programmed to use them last even if they would have a type advantage.
Megas are not well designed for the main game.
I wonder if that's why it took so long for Ash to get a water starter to fully evolve.
Not75Drops
Member
2 PM