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[Gipsy Danger]

The ORAS player won't be able to use any new megas, moves or abilities when battling an XY player. Kinda like how the compatibility between RBY and GSC was

If that's the case then that's super dumb. But I would hope there would be a way to only battle against ORAS players in that case.

 

[ss-hikaru]

They seriously call Brendan 2.0 "Omega" in Japan? lol

Exactly my reaction haha. Omega-kun and Alpha-chan~

So this whole intra-gen compatibility issue is a reflection of GF just making up what Megas they want as they go?

 

[Stardust_Comet]

Exactly my reaction haha. Omega-kun and Alpha-chan~

So this whole intra-gen compatibility issue is a reflection of GF just making up what Megas they want as they go?

Pretty much. Only Latios and Latias had the code and design for their megas in XY already. I doubt GameFreak knew where they were going next for most of their megas and half of them were probably decided by a dart and a dart board with over 700 pokemon names, or glancing through fan comments and seeing what pokemon they remembered being mentioned that needed a mega form.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

I don't see the issue. You didn't buy XY with the expectation of new Mega's to be patched in. This is complaining for the sake of complaining. It's like if you bought Pokemon Red, why would you expect to be able to use Gold/Silver Pokemon in it? You bought it to play Pokemon Red and not for future prospects.

Now on the other hand, I agree their shoddy engine is just lazy.

If Pokemon Gold/Silver came out a year after Red/Blue, I'd absolutely expect to be able to transfer new Pokemon across.

If you're going to render a game obsolete, don't do it a fucking year after it's released.

This isn't even comparable to Call of Duty, where they're self-contained games. Pokemon games are compatible with each other, so if you're playing a version that is missing evolutions and such, you're at a disadvantage.

 

[FSLink]

I remember when people were hyped about secret bases and making their own gyms.

You gotta admit that it does suck that you can't customize your look to go along with your own "gym". :/


The Red/Blue and Gold/Silver comparison is stupid because they're separate gens. This is more like Diamond/Pearl with Heart Gold/Soul Silver, except it's baffling that Gamefreak didn't think about making XY very patch friendly in this day and age.

 

[TaiKH92]

They'll add all those megas to X/Y in Pokemon Z, I promise

Spoiler

unless they pull a B2/W2 and release X2/Y2 instead

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Not buy the new games and continue being able to battle against the entire competitive population?

Yes. Why is that such a terrible thing to ask for? In past games you couldn't see new formes (and thus were unable to use them online in the case of Rotom) because you couldn't do patches. You can do patches now and since you need the latest version the game to play online I don't see the issue with this happening.

Rather, seeing the new megas might encourage purchases.

They didn't even have to be available to use in X/Y, just visible and able to be battled against. I don't see how that's a hard thing to do.

This!

It's insane that Game Freak just randomly drops so many features. Remember the speed-based encounter system in HG/SS, where you'd encounter fewer Pokemon while walking and more when riding a bike? It was brilliant, and it'll probably never come back. Same with Pokemon sprites following you around. I thought the L=A option was gone for good until they brought it back in X/Y, but who knows if it's going to be there in ORAS? And what possible reason could there be for taking out such a widely acclaimed feature as character customisation?

With the Sneaking

Well isnt the thing about Pokemon about always having the newest version?
Its like asking to Capcom to patch MH4G exclusive monsters or armor into MH4 so they can play together, it doesnt make much sense.

What disappoints many people is PVP isn't being patched to allow us to see the new mega evolutions. Even if we won't be able to obtain them within XY...

That situation is not the same as MH4 owners being able to play PVE in MH4 Alpha Turbo EX.

Customization has zero value for me.

As a male trainer, I sadly agree. They don't even got shorts!

What is the deal with making your own gym anyway? Can people online challenge it?

Secret bases in Gen 3 you received whenever you traded with someone. It was their current team. The game now shows you where the bases are which is an imporvement and the player can customise their team and the battle rules.

I wonder if it will be distributed in the same way. I'm awfully tempted to make 6*Level 100 Audunio secret base for a lucrative EXP base. Assuming Secret base battles still give EXP.

 

[Niosai]

I was reading earlier posts about the lack of skin tones and such. While I do agree that the loss of customization is pretty lame, they are remaking a game that only had the option of a white dude and a white chick. Doesn't make it okay, but all of the other remakes kept their original two trainers as well. I guess maybe they're going for parity.

 

[Sandfox]

The ORAS player won't be able to use any new megas, moves or abilities when battling an XY player. Kinda like how the compatibility between RBY and GSC was

We don't know that yet.

 

[MicH]

We don't know that yet.

If they don't patch the new stuff into XY there is no other way it's gonna work

 

[Boss Doggie]

If they don't patch the new stuff into XY there is no other way it's gonna work

BW didnt have that problem

 

[Sandfox]

If they don't patch the new stuff into XY there is no other way it's gonna work

They could always handle it like the other formes in past games and the only pokemon with new attacks and abilities are the cover legendaries so that doesn't really affect much else if they don't have a way to work around that.

 

[MicH]

BW didnt have that problem

You can't compare it to BW and BW2 as BW2 didn't add any new moves or abilities; only new forms accessible by key items.

They could always handle it like the other formes in past games and the only pokemon with new attacks and abilities are the cover legendaries so that doesn't really affect much else if they don't have a way to work around that.

Unless they patch in the mega stones, no. So only the ORAS player can see the actual mega transformation, but not the XY player? What about the mega stone itself? The mega stone is not coded into XY, so what happens if the XY player uses a Pokemon with Frisk? I don't see how this would be possible without a patch

 

[Boss Doggie]

You can't compare it to BW and BW2 as BW2 didn't add any new moves or abilities; only new forms accessible by key items.

yeah but said forms weren't in BW data

maybe they could do the same thing

 

[Gamescook]

I hear the arguments for why GF wouldn't patch X/Y because it could decentivise players from buying OR/AS.

I'm gonna do one of them hypotheticals on why they should, okay? Items, including Mega Stones, can't be traded through Pokémon Bank, right? X/Y are patched so its players, who likely haven't bought OR/AS, can fight against Pokémon like Mega Marshtomp and Primal Groudon. "Oh snap!", Jo Everyperson exclaims, as Primal Groudon glows its glow before dealing a one-hit KO to the one-time master of the Kalos arena, Mega Tyranitar, with its brand new "Precipice Blade" move. "I want to make the earth dance, too!", Jo Everyperson thinks aloud to no one in particular. "I will buy Omega Ruby and/or Alpha Sapphire tomorrow at my local video game retail outlet."

tl;dr The cost to patch X/Y for basic battle compatibility with OR/AS might be justifiable if enough profit were to be made from additional sold copies of OR/AS.

 

[sd28821]

Not surprising there is no benefit for them to waste time and resources doing this. also you most likely can still battle an trade between the versions any way just not obtain the new moves and mega forms in x and y.

 

[FyreWulff]

I thought part of the point of mega evolutions is that they didn't have to backport them to previous games since they only exist in-battle.

 

[MicH]

yeah but said forms weren't in BW data

maybe they could do the same thing

It doesn't matter. You couldn't use the Kyurem or Genie BW2 forms if you battled someone with Black or White anyway. It will be the exact same thing here - you can't use the megas exclusive to ORAS when battling someone with X or Y

 

[Exterminieren]

Not surprising there is no benefit for them to waste time and resources doing this. also you most likely can still battle an trade between the versions any way just not obtain the new moves and mega forms in x and y.

You can still battle or trade... except with the highly-publicised new designs. Including the ones on the boxes of the new games.

Without a patch, the new Megas, attacks and abilities simply will not work.

 

[Zareka]

Genuine question, did 'formes' require new items in order to change the form of the previous Pokemon? Because if not, I don't really think we can compare them. If the items aren't coded in to X/Y I can't see moves like frisk ending in anything other than bugs or crashes.

They could always handle it like the other formes in past games and the only pokemon with new attacks and abilities are the cover legendaries so that doesn't really affect much else if they don't have a way to work around that.

But they do have a work around. A patch.

 

[MicH]

Genuine question, did 'formes' require new items in order to change the form of the previous Pokemon? Because if not, I don't really think we can compare them. If the items aren't coded in to X/Y I can't see moves like frisk ending in anything other than bugs or crashes.

They did require new items. They were key items though, not hold items. New formed were not supported on older games without them (like BW2 forms cannot be used in a battle with a BW1 player)

You will not be able to or battle someone with the ORAS megas in X and Y unless they patch it in. It's as simple as that

 

[Zareka]

They did require new items. They were key items though, not hold items. New formed were not supported on older games without them (like BW2 forms cannot be used in a battle with a BW1 player)

Ah, okay, makes more sense then. But would key items cause any problems like held items do? I mean as long as you hid the formes for other players, they wouldn't come in contact with the key item, I think.

 

[brinstar]

Genuine question, did 'formes' require new items in order to change the form of the previous Pokemon? Because if not, I don't really think we can compare them. If the items aren't coded in to X/Y I can't see moves like frisk ending in anything other than bugs or crashes.

Giratina needs to hold an item that's not in D/P to change forms iirc

 

[Syntsui]

Pretty shitty, but let's not pretend that no one would buy ORAS and never play X&Y again.

 

[Wichu]

Giratina needs to hold an item that's not in D/P to change forms iirc

Yup. I think if you Frisked it in D/P it would appear as ??? or something similar.

The Pokémon battle system generally handles problems like that rather well.

 

[Leafhopper]

Pretty shitty, but let's not pretend that no one would buy ORAS and never play X&Y again.

I am barely playing my copy of Y and GF still having this old mindset, I have no interest of getting OR/AS really, at least now.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Just like literally every other Pokemon game that's ever been released? Gotcha.

 

[Exterminieren]

Just like literally every other Pokemon game that's ever been released? Gotcha.

a) Game Freak has never been able to patch one of their games before.
b) ORAS is bringing more new forms, attacks and abilities than we've ever had before halfway through a generation.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes. Why is that such a terrible thing to ask for? In past games you couldn't see new formes (and thus were unable to use them online in the case of Rotom) because you couldn't do patches. You can do patches now and since you need the latest version the game to play online I don't see the issue with this happening.

Definitely not a terrible thing to ask for. Obviously it would be cool if they provided that kind of support. I just don't see them putting out a patch that would probably require multiple hundreds of megabytes on a person's memory stick for a 3DS game.

 

[Zareka]

I was reading earlier posts about the lack of skin tones and such. While I do agree that the loss of customization is pretty lame, they are remaking a game that only had the option of a white dude and a white chick. Doesn't make it okay, but all of the other remakes kept their original two trainers as well. I guess maybe they're going for parity.

Again, I'm not accepting this as an answer considering they added an entirely new female trainer in the gen 1 remakes. My knowledge of coding etc. is limited but I'm guessing this would be way more effort than just a̶d̶d̶i̶n̶g retaining skin tones.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Someone from /vp/ seems to get an idea why data-patching (not fix patches) might not work

Game data on cart is a read only chip, you can't flash it.

Save can be written, but you can't add things to the save that the game does not recognize, or it says save is corrupted.

Example:
Let's say items go from 000 to 100. If I edit the save adding an item with code 101, the game will give a glitch and say that the save is corrupted.

So even if they add the patch with new items you can't save on the cart, because the cart has to be played on any 3ds, even if they don't have a patch or internet connection.

We all knew that a patch to add new megas to XY was impossible. Well, at least those with some brain.

 

[Chopper]

Have they fixed the shitty framerate at least?

 

[BlazeBreak]

I thought part of the point of mega evolutions is that they didn't have to backport them to previous games since they only exist in-battle.

The point of mega evolutions (aside from a "big" new gimmick), is probably so they can add "new" Pokemon without technically adding new Pokemon and further inflating the Pokedex. There's 719 Pokemon now. Mega Evolution is a way to manage future growth since from now on, half of the "new" monsters in a game can be Megas, limiting the amount of actual new Pokemon that get added.

The good-bad thing about Megas is that Game Freak has decided to add new Mega Evolutions within the same generation. Good that there's more content being added and "new" Pokemon to look forward to, but the bad is obviously that it hampers inter-generation compatibility a lot more than it used to.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Someone from /vp/ seems to get an idea why data-patching (not fix patches) might not work

That is fine and all but thing is you don't need to save anything like that to the games save file in order to play against other people. Therefore a fix patch could still offer the ability to not segregate battle spot.

 

[Exterminieren]

Have they fixed the shitty framerate at least?

Nope. Playing the demo, it shits itself in 3D when there's more than one Pokémon on screen, and Double Battles make the framerate chug in 2D and 3D, 3D is still disabled on the overworld.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

Nope. Playing the demo, it shits itself in 3D when there's more than one Pokémon on screen, and Double Battles make the framerate chug in 2D and 3D, 3D is still disabled on the overworld.

Welp, there goes that hope. Not all that interested anymore.

 

[udivision]

Someone from /vp/ seems to get an idea why data-patching (not fix patches) might not work

That makes sense... oh well.

 

[Sciz]

That is fine and all but thing is you don't need to save anything like that to the games save file in order to play against other people. Therefore a fix patch could still offer the ability to not segregate battle spot.

The problem that comes to mind with the "just give XY the data, not the access" idea is that the moment these games release, they're going to get complaints about people paying for a competitive advantage.

 

[Manu]

Patch controversy aside... where is my Mega Tropius, Game Freak?

 

[udivision]

Patch controversy aside... where is my Mega Tropius, Game Freak?

Pretty sure Tropius is Mega Meganium.

 

[gosox333]

I'm all for there being a logical reason for this, I prefer it that way. I don't like thinking the devs to my favorite games are scuzballs.

Just let us know about it instead of saying ohyeahandnopatches.

 

[Zing]

They gotta sell the new games somehow I guess.

Are you suggesting that people would not buy this game otherwise? I suspect the only people who care about this are people who buy every game in the series regardless.

 

[ColtraineGF]

As a note: The PokeNav Plus uses the same PSS as XY, so you can connect to people w/ XY or ORAS and battle/trade/etc.

http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/adventure-tools/the-pokenav-plus/the-playnav

As for Battle Spot, they'll use a separate bracket for ORAS on the PGL. When you play, you're matched with players of that game, and are rated separately for the two.

http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/cool-features/the-pokemon-global-link/pgl-rating-battles

 

[Exterminieren]

Game Freak's given further details on the capabilities of battling between XY and ORAS.

It's worst case scenario. No battling involving ORAS Megas at all in X and Y... apart from Latios and Latias, presumably.

No forgiving it any more. Indescribably lazy at best, downright anti-consumer at worst.

 

[Kiraly]

Game Freak's given further details on the capabilities of battling between XY and ORAS.

It's worst case scenario. No battling involving ORAS Megas at all in X and Y... apart from Latios and Latias, presumably.

No forgiving it any more. Indescribably lazy at best, downright anti-consumer at worst.

So exactly what we have been discussing 10 pages about?

 

[Exterminieren]

So exactly what we have been discussing 10 pages about?

People were trying to imply that Game Freak had planned ahead, and we'd still be able to battle without the models changing. They've come out and said that there's not even that much compatibility.

 

[Stardust_Comet]

Game Freak's given further details on the capabilities of battling between XY and ORAS.

It's worst case scenario. No battling involving ORAS Megas at all in X and Y... apart from Latios and Latias, presumably.

No forgiving it any more. Indescribably lazy at best, downright anti-consumer at worst.

You might want to put this into your OP so that anyone who comes in and doesn't read through the posts here will at least see this and not go around saying "well we'll still be able to fight the new megas, just we won't be able to see them, like with the new forms in older gens".

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yea, not being able to overcome technical impossibilities is so lazy and anti consumer. Totally.

So was platinum apparently, since it worked exactly the same way...

 

[Jarmel]

How the fuck is there no more trainer customization?

 

[Starwolf_UK]

As a note: The PokeNav Plus uses the same PSS as XY, so you can connect to people w/ XY or ORAS and battle/trade/etc.

Wonder if O-powers are earned in the same manner.

Spoiler

Will hatching power S ever be released

The problem that comes to mind with the "just give XY the data, not the access" idea is that the moment these games release, they're going to get complaints about people paying for a competitive advantage.

The move tutors (and maybe new egg and level up moves) already give a competitive advantage so by that argument ORAS should not be allowed to play XY players at all.

I think battle spot will suffer greatly from the segregation bought on by this.

Yea, not being able to overcome technical impossibilities is so lazy and anti consumer. Totally.

So was platinum apparently, since it worked exactly the same way...

Please read the thread. A patch to allow the new megas to be seen (while not usable by you) and there be playable is not an unreasonable thing to ask for. If it is please explain why it is a "technical impossibility". People go on about "what if you delete the patch, your save will corrupt", which is completely false as you're not allowing the player to have the new items in their inventory which would apparently the source of this corruption.

Platinum was a DS game which being a DS cart can't be patched. 3DS games can be patched.