The thing is, it's 2014, and patches exist.
Pokémon X and Y will not receive a patch for compatibility with ORAS's new Megas
- Thread starter Exterminieren
- Start date
Andrefpvs
Member
I think it may be the late hour, but I don't get why you just repeated this information, since I had included it in my post.
Hopefully you are right, but without access to the source code, we have no way to know how XY will handle these undefined items (since we do know the opponent's hold item information is sent to the opposite game).
matrix-cat
Member
It's insane that Game Freak just randomly drops so many features. Remember the speed-based encounter system in HG/SS, where you'd encounter fewer Pokemon while walking and more when riding a bike? It was brilliant, and it'll probably never come back. Same with Pokemon sprites following you around. I thought the L=A option was gone for good until they brought it back in X/Y, but who knows if it's going to be there in ORAS? And what possible reason could there be for taking out such a widely acclaimed feature as character customisation?
Well May is certainly surprised at the whole deal.
They seriously call Brendan 2.0 "Omega" in Japan? lol
Generation one is compatible with generation one games
Generation two is compatible with generation two games
Generation three is compatible with generation three games
Generation four is compatible with generation four games
Generation five is compatible with generation five games
Now, there have been exception Pokemon pretty much each gen since 3, but those were what, five tops ever? Here we're going to have at least twenty guys, pretty likely more than that, some with completely new moves and abilities (which hasn't ever happened before this) that can't be played with across the generation. And since this has happened here, it's incredibly likely that the exact same thing is going to happen next year whenever the third version is released, even further splintering the compatibility.
This is so much more severe than what's happened in the past. There has been a precedent set for these games over the past 12 years, and it's being broken.
This is why people are upset.
Generation two is compatible with generation two games
Generation three is compatible with generation three games
Generation four is compatible with generation four games
Generation five is compatible with generation five games
Now, there have been exception Pokemon pretty much each gen since 3, but those were what, five tops ever? Here we're going to have at least twenty guys, pretty likely more than that, some with completely new moves and abilities (which hasn't ever happened before this) that can't be played with across the generation. And since this has happened here, it's incredibly likely that the exact same thing is going to happen next year whenever the third version is released, even further splintering the compatibility.
This is so much more severe than what's happened in the past. There has been a precedent set for these games over the past 12 years, and it's being broken.
This is why people are upset.
ColtraineGF
Member
I repeated the information because I wanted to place this news in context with the past generations to establish precedence. Hence, me putting the G6 line right down there, and quoting that specific section of your explanation.
The reason I responded in the first place is that I wanted to point out that this is in line with past gens (in terms of having new stuff you can't bring back to the old game). Making a patch for an older game to bring it up to speed with a newer title is something I don't really see as common in a lot of video games, and I don't see why Game Freak is any exception, especially when they've always advocated the whole "move your team forward to the new release" and *especially* when they aren't the best developer in the world - heck, the main team is probably focused on finishing up Z and doing research and planning for Gen 7. And even then, you can still, within the same gen, shuttle back and forth 700+ Pokemon, with 600+ moves and almost 200 abilities no problem. Aside from the 40+ Megas, you aren't exactly missing out big time by having 3 extra moves/abilities. If you wanted to stick to just the first two and not buy ORAS, more power to you. Just like people who stick with RS/DP/BW
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Things concerning items it will probably be handled on ORAS's end - it can tell what game it connects to, so it can establish on their end that such and such items can't be used by having a prompt. "You can't battle with this held item", something like that. Just like how GS didn't let you put a Pokemon in the Time Machine when it knew a certain move, for instance.
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That said, I want the patch. Don't get me wrong, I really wanted that patch. Being able to patch in new Pokemon and stuff to avoid spoilers was one of my main hopes going into G6. But ultimately, I'm more interested in what's there than what isn't. I'm done with XY, and can't wait to go to ORAS, and eventually Z.
ColtraineGF
Member
Read the rest buddy.
KojiKnight
Member
Patching in new models, textures, sounds, etc also takes space and could significantly boost the space requirements for something that won't effect a whole lot of players outside of super enthusiast circles.
Maintenance
Member
But the leaks showed that at least Mega Lati@s is already in X/Y. People even thought they were unfinished models (lol, like me).
ColtraineGF
Member
I see the rest.
Having new stuff that can't be bought back =/= incompatible. Just like every single other "new thing in new game" that has been a thing in every gen since 3.
Well it's certainly less compatible than any gen before it by what many people assumed to be an unimaginably large margin.
That is why people are upset.
Because it something that should be setting a new bar. It so silly to limit it to one region; it taking a step backward. Gamefreak can be so weird of introducing some cool stuff that has potential to continue or expand overtime, but ditch it.
Soar probably won't be quite as raising the bar as customization, but I bet they won't use it again after this, or at least a while, so hope it not too cool!
Yaphett Kotto
Member
The patch should not be any largeer than 100mb, honestly.
ColtraineGF
Member
People are also upset that you can't have Pokemon follow you, which was a pretty big thing in HGSS. Plenty who would want to be able to have purpose for their Pokewalker, who can't do diddly even though BW have IR compatibility and 3DSs have the sensor built in.
My issue is acting like this is new, or somehow different than before.
edit: To be fair, the Pokewalker thing is an issue of reprogramming the hardware, so it's a different matter.
Andrefpvs
Member
Ah, I see, thanks for the detailed explanation, I really needed it (I should just go to bed, lol).
You raise fair points, and what you're saying is actually very sensible. But Pokémon is a special series. There really is no other series that emphasizes communication like it does (not even Monster Hunter), so this is always going to generate some strong reactions from the fans.
To be honest, I can understand why Game Freak won't patch the game. Not that I agree, but I can see why it could make sense for them. In the end, I hope whatever solution they find for minimizing compatibility issues is at least decent (and not just a "You can't battle that person with your current team!").
By the way, while I can understand the argument from both sides' point of view, I still think my post in the previous page was pretty good at explaining why people are upset! ORAS is adding more to the battles than just a few forms. Adding attacks and abilities is unprecedented, even if they're limited to these new forms.
PS: Regarding that "avoiding spoilers" thing you mentioned, I know how you feel. I want to be legitimately surprised by these games, but there is so much information going around these days... I was very disappointed when I learned about the hidden legendaries in XY.
There is. To play rated battles online in X and Y you need to register your games with the online service. There is nothing stopping them from restricting copies of X and Y to only receiving the new stones from copies of ORAS that you own.
Because that's their MO?
Nah man that sucked. I don't want to be punished for wanting to quickly pass through an area.
If Z/whatever keeps this up, the number of incompatible Pokemon across generation 6 games will dwarf what we've ever had before. Even now it's uncomfortably larger than what we've ever had before.
That's different than before on a completely different level than what you just described.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
so far we wouldn't know if XY vs ORAS battles would allow exclusive megas, but if BW2 could allow it, I don't see how XY vs ORAS couldn't
Well keep me in the seriously worried pile until they confirm that, because these new moves and abilities don't make me feel good about it happening.
ColtraineGF
Member
New Megas is a selling point for ORAS, just like new formes were selling points in past games. If one wants to take that to issue (as a series-focused problem), then go right ahead.
Ultimately, the compatibility revolves around the shared core base of 718 Pokemon, plus whatever other hold items/abilities/moves/etc. That is the generation right there, and the main component of compatibility.
burn this down
Banned
Wait, we know that the new Megas won't be patched into X and Y, but has it been confirmed whether or not you can use them in battles between XY and ORAS? Like, in previous generations, when a Pokemon got a form change midway through the gen, the new form could still be used in battles with the older games, it would just show up in the old games in its regular form. Do we know if that's happening again or no?
Also, not fixing the crappy X and Y engine is just pure laziness. I got so tired of playing that laggy mess of a battle system.
Also, not fixing the crappy X and Y engine is just pure laziness. I got so tired of playing that laggy mess of a battle system.
Exploratory
Banned
If there's a company that can do whatever the fuck it wants and laugh all the way to the bank its GameFreak. Nintendo doesn't care to compel them nor could they.
Vermillion
Banned
No player customization? Eh, I'll just skip ORAS.
ColtraineGF
Member
We're stuck in a circular argument. You seem to not understand what I'm getting at. One last try, and I'm done.
Having Pokemon not compatible across a generation of games is not different.
Having a larger amount of Pokemon not compatible across a generation than ever is different.
Having the possibility of even more not compatible Pokemon across the generation is different.
The scale of this happening is larger than it has ever been before. Larger, not the same size. Ergo different. People are upset about this differently larger amount of Pokemon potentially not available across all gen 6 games.
I'm out, I literally cannot make my point any clearer.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I remember when people were hyped about secret bases and making their own gyms.
ColtraineGF
Member
I know what you said.
My point was that these new megas are part of a package. A package that is indeed large, but still a package. A selling point, with my comparison to formes. They do not exist in a vacuum. They come with all the other stuff new to ORAS that won't be in XY.
When you start a post about compatibility, that means a specific thing - portability of a core group, to facilitate completing that dex, to "get em all". GF has their own methods to get you to buy another version when you already have one game, and new formes which don't really "count" are one of those methods.
In the end, there aren't any missing holes in that dex. Gen 6 Pokemon are Gen 6 Pokemon. If this is the last gen with megas (and they can easily do so by not including those items in Gen 7), then so be it. But that core has not disappeared yet, and that core is the reason these games are compatible, so to speak.
matrix-cat
Member
It didn't raise the normal encounter rate for riding a bike, as far as I remember, it just lowered it for walking. You still eventually end up using Repels like every other Pokemon game in history, this just made the first playthrough much more enjoyable.
PreyingShark
Member
The issue is more that you can't guarantee that kiddos who may not even have their 3DS connected to the net have the patch.
The way they're handling the situation allows ORAS players to play with patchless XY owners, which means that playground trading will go mostly smoothly. They won't be able to trade over the new mega stones or use certain megas, but it's better than not being able to play at all. And, as long as shit is consistent kids will adapt pretty quickly. And as someone who went to a school district where many kids had Pokemon but no broadband at home, I'm not a fan of requiring a patch when kids may not have an easy time patching shit to begin with.
Not to mention we're talking about like 6 and 7 year olds here. And yes, there are 6 and 7 year olds that play Pokemon.
What is the deal with making your own gym anyway? Can people online challenge it?
This sucks for multiple reasons.
1. Splits player base. If you want to battle, you need the right version.
Guy 1: Let's have a battle!
Guy 2: Ok, do you have ORAS?
Guy 1: No, only X.
Guy 2: Sorry... *plays trumpet*
While of course a lot of people will just jump ship to ORAS, there are many who won't. I doubt ORAS is going to sell as much as XY, so it's difficult to interact with the majority of the players. This will be especially annoying if we can't use the GTS between the versions.
2. The eventual jump back to Z. Pokemon Z is coming out next year in all likelihood. It will probably have all the ORAS megas plus more, so all your Pokemon you transfer to ORAS will probably have to go back to Z. Watch there be a three way split between XY, ORAS, an Z in terms of who you can play with.
3. MY POKEDEX. I'm so close to catching them all in X, don't take that away from me.!
You may be saying "but you always have to start over with each new gen!" Except this isn't a new gen, it's still gen VI. There's no reason why all the games in a single gen shouldn't be able to work with each other in full capacity.
Also in Youkai Watch 2, any youkai you have can follow you around *sips tea*
1. Splits player base. If you want to battle, you need the right version.
Guy 1: Let's have a battle!
Guy 2: Ok, do you have ORAS?
Guy 1: No, only X.
Guy 2: Sorry... *plays trumpet*
While of course a lot of people will just jump ship to ORAS, there are many who won't. I doubt ORAS is going to sell as much as XY, so it's difficult to interact with the majority of the players. This will be especially annoying if we can't use the GTS between the versions.
2. The eventual jump back to Z. Pokemon Z is coming out next year in all likelihood. It will probably have all the ORAS megas plus more, so all your Pokemon you transfer to ORAS will probably have to go back to Z. Watch there be a three way split between XY, ORAS, an Z in terms of who you can play with.
3. MY POKEDEX. I'm so close to catching them all in X, don't take that away from me.!
You may be saying "but you always have to start over with each new gen!" Except this isn't a new gen, it's still gen VI. There's no reason why all the games in a single gen shouldn't be able to work with each other in full capacity.
Also in Youkai Watch 2, any youkai you have can follow you around *sips tea*
Gipsy Danger
Member
Wait. Can XY users play against ORAS users online?
This is not acceptable as a justification...Pokemon has always been about transfering and sharing stuff between games and have everything in your favorite game of the gen
...Remakes have always been compatible with the all games of the same gen(I hated FR/LG art design So I had all my OG pokemons transfered to Emerald)....why stop now?
If this was any other similar game, hell would break loose (Think ME3)
But its nintendo so everything is forgiven...right?
what a leap. you should try out for rio or something.
Gipsy Danger
Member
Isn't this a different thing to other remakes though because Mega evolutions are obviously brand new as opposed to normal remakes which just have pokemon that were already in the previous games?
I dunno. I'm never one to defend Nintendo vehemently but I don't really see a problem with this.
I dunno. I'm never one to defend Nintendo vehemently but I don't really see a problem with this.
But how can an XY player and an ORAS player battle each other if the ORAS user has a mega that XY doesn't? I know you can transfer Pokemon and trade between the versions, but what about battling?
TheGreatLugia
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same way it's been done in previous generations with alternate forms where the player is using the new Mega Evolution but it simply shows on the X/Y player's screen as the original Pokemon (Like how Deoxys forms showed up as Normal Deoxys in battle against R/S players).
Assuming battles can be done close to that example I don't mind the lack of a patch. I hate how they dropped trainer customization and said it was Kalos only, though. >.>
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
Every time a new game comes out, people complain about something they set their hopes up for. The people here who are annoyed by it at the ones who honestly expected a patch and now they're disappointed for having their hopes set up for it.
The ORAS player won't be able to use any new megas, moves or abilities when battling an XY player. Kinda like how the compatibility between RBY and GSC was
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
This so much.
I completely expected no patch to happen for the megas.
But what was wrong with the trainer customisation? It feels like GameFreak doesn't want to create new outfits again because it was a hassle the first time.
Well tbh...I was kind of relieved. I cancelled my preorder and put that towards Bayonetta. Not really super enthusiastic about the megas. Character customization was the only reason I jumped back into Pokemon. Makes sense that it wouldn't be in these since they are redoing older games, but it also means I can live without them.
They're both programmed into the game already, so whenever they're made available they should be able to transfer to XY.