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[ash_ag]

This is something that's been on my mind for a while now. The Pokémon community is truly one of the most consistently dedicated fanbases in the entire industry; quite possibly the most dedicated fanbase for a single series. From social and competitive play, to discussion about the series' lore, to simple appreciation of the games' art, Pokémon fans are truly prolific. One has to wonder how confident Game Freak, TPC and Nintendo are about the series' future.

For people who have been following sales data and analysis, this isn't a new thing. The average Pokémon fan is ageing, and has been ageing for years. Here are some (old-ish) data from Nintendo's investors' briefing in 2010:

This undeniable trend has been ongoing ever since the DS era. Despite the fact that the fifth generation released on the same hardware as the fourth -- which is to say, one would expect kids (which aren't known for caring about bleeding edge graphics as much as being able to buy a game without making their parents buy them a new console) who entered the series in DP would return for BW.

But that doesn't seem to be the case -- by BW, the ratio of kids and late teens / young adults is pretty much 50:50. And the trend seems to be ongoing with Generation VI, although we still don't have any hard data. It's really marvellous how dedicated Pokémon fans are. Some of us have been on it since day one of our respective region, and are still going strong. HGSS brought back a lot of old fans, which have apparently stayed for Gen 5 and 6 as well.

But really, isn't this at least a bit worrying? One of the reasons for this issue is surely kids turning to smart devices rather than dedicated portables for entertainment. Even so, many kids have been buying Nintendo's portables just for Pokémon before -- driven by the multitude of media, including the anime and card game.

What changed? Can the series appeal to kids again? Can it survive without the younger audience?
What would you do if you were in TPC's shoes?

 

[Sou Da]

Personally all I want from TPC is a hard mode difficulty.

Though I'd like to see an experiment where they don't use the Pokemon league gym formula for one game.

 

[DizzyCrow]

INB4 "put it on iOS/Android".

 

[GamerJM]

Go hard on that older fanbase with more shit like Pokemon Origins.

 

[Chavelo]

They do got something in their back pocket. But they will never do it in fear of ending civilization as we know it: The Pokemon MMO.

 

[Skelter]

Go hard on that older fanbase with more shit like Pokemon Origins.

Yes.

I want the A.I to be harder not necessarily Battle Maison challenging through out the game but there is no reason for the games to be so damn easy.

I think Pokémon could use some experimentation. How? No idea.

 

[JoeM86]

I wouldn't say it's ageing per se, but rather expanding. If I remember correctly, in Japan, there is a smaller Under 18 population than there used to be. I've heard that it's a strange situation. I may be wrong, though, can't remember where I read this.

Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire buck the trend a little. They have sales almost as high as the start of a generation (which seldom happens), and that's largely due to nostalgia. It's not that Pokémon's audience is getting older, it's that these games appealed to the older audience more due to the nostalgia factor. Iwata even commented on this in the Investor Briefing a couple of months ago. It's not that it's appealing less to children, it's that it's appealing to more adults as well.

Now, if we start a new generation in 2017 and it's like this, then it's time to start worrying.

All in all though, they don't have to do anything. The games are still selling. To fundamentally change things would be catastrophic.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

They are doing a great job and I wouldn't change anything, even if I didn't get ORAS which I should be getting soon, but for the love of god make your games at least stable 30fps. XY sucked with the constant framedrops, was that fixed?

Over here in Mexico the games and show are still pretty popular with kids.

 

[Jebusman]

HGSS brought back a lot of old fans, which have apparently stayed for Gen 5 and 6 as well.

I'm pretty sure this is part of the overall series plan. A perpetual loop of nostalgia that is both accessible to newcomers, yet recognizable to veterans.

Gen 3 had a Gen 1 remake, helping to bridge over those who didn't transition to the GBA era.

Gen 4 had a Gen 2 remake, to transition to DS.

Now Gen 6 has a Gen 3 remake, to transition people to the 3DS. It'll never let fans go.

Edit: Hell, considering this, this would leave the grounds open for yet another Gen 1 remake or re-imaging, since Fire Red/Leaf Green is now a little over 10 years old.

Edit: 10 years. Wow

 

[Espada]

They could decide to appeal to the older fanbase more and more, doubled down on youth, or move the series to a platform kids are flocking to (mobile).

 

[johnsmith]

I'd make a grim-dark reboot.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Honestly, I would like them to drop the overly-friendly elementary school tone of recent games in favor of the more versatile tones of the first two games. People were jerks to you in those games. Not overly, cloyingly nice. That allowed for more memorable characters and more interesting storytelling.

Gen II opens with a breaking and entering and a theft. It leads into animal exploitation where Team Rocket is cutting the tails off of Slowpokes. The subplot revolves around a criminal organization trying to return to power and failing.

It's a very different tone than the more spectacular and fantastical fantasy stories in later generations.

But I feel like, especially with Gen VI, TPC has done an excellent job updating how the game works to appeal to adult players with less time but deeper interest.

 

[Lowlander2]

Pokemon doesn't need to be gritty, but it's always better when it's taking the scale of its concept and world seriously. XY is my favourite game to date, because it has the best reconciliation of the kid friendly concept and the inevitable questions that arise with Pokemon, like animal rights, companionship and, surprisingly, how they would have been used in warfare and the consequences therein.

I don't desire for a dark and bloody story. Theming, not events, is what gets me going on these games.

 

[EhoaVash]

bring it to consoles pls.

look i never game on 3DS outside my house/ if I do take my 3DS outside it's hidden away in my backpack cause of streetpass ..

I NEVER trade locally with the recent games. don't know anyone who does either

anyway i say bring it to consoles where i'm sure their growing older fans will appreciate it much more

i mean look I'm 19 and my friends and I still play pokemon..my brother who is 7 ..Has zero interest in pokemon neither does all his friends. they're all into skylanders etc.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I think Nintendo needs to make the franchise a bit darker. It is clearly what the fans want.

 

[Allegrian]

I hope that they make new pokemon games less childish knowing that it's more appealing to adults now, although X and Y have some hardcore Nazi stuff, it still has super childish dialogues.

 

[mazpratim]

When the D/P kids start going to college, they'll be back into the series again

Pokemon sales are kinda like a rollercoaster, they go up and down constantly

 

[Azuran]

bring it to consoles pls.

look i never game on 3DS outside my house/ if I do take my 3DS outside it's hidden away in my backpack cause of streetpass ..

I NEVER trade locally with the recent games. don't know anyone who does either

anyway i say bring it to consoles where i'm sure their growing older fans will appreciate it much more

i mean look I'm 19 and my friends and I still play pokemon..my brother who is 7 ..Has zero interest in pokemon neither does all his friends. they're all into skylanders etc.

Well, it only took 14 posts.

Anyways, Pokemon is just weird. I'm in University full of 20 year old something and ORAS is insanely popular among this demographic. You couldn't talk about Pokemon in high school without getting made fun of, and yet everyone is so open once they reach this age. It's funny to see.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Honestly, I would like them to drop the overly-friendly elementary school tone of recent games in favor of the more versatile tones of the first two games. People were jerks to you in those games. Not overly, cloyingly nice. That allowed for more memorable characters and more interesting storytelling.

A lot of that is still there, though?

Mainly through the NPCs as opposed to the main plot, though. There's a lot of interesting elements in ORAS I've ran into, like a really creepy dude spying on a girl and implying he's one of those dirty talent scouts, and a dude talking about how he had to fire a guy, only to find out later that the man abandoned his family and they had no clue he had been fired.

I'd say Pokemon always has had some pretty clever writing and side-stories, most of it you just have to look for.

 

[King Cobra]

Make the games more challenging, I am playing OR and I battled someone in a secret base that just wiped the floor with me. And you know what for the first time I feel like a need strategy instead of just blaze kicking everything. It felt pretty good which is one of the reasons why I think it's a shame they took out the battle frontier.

 

[Toxi]

Keep in mind that Diamond and Pearl sold amazingly well despite being shit. Pokemon sales depend on system sales too, and the DS sold hot cakes compared to the GBA and 3DS.

Putting it on iOS or android would print money, but Nintendo ain't gonna let that happen.

 

[Davey Cakes]

They need to make it feel more like the show.

 

[ConceptX]

INB4 "put it on iOS/Android".

They should, it would print money.

At least the early gens.

FAR more people have access to Android or iOS than a DS.

 

[Espada]

I think Nintendo needs to make the franchise a bit darker. It is clearly what the fans want.

The games are plenty dark when they want to be, X&Y especially. I don't remember if it was Masuda or Sugimori who said it, but they go into each Pokemon game with the idea that it may be someone's very first pokemon game. They intentionally keep the entry level low to get as many people playing.

 

[Wichu]

bring it to consoles pls.

look i never game on 3DS outside my house/ if I do take my 3DS outside it's hidden away in my backpack cause of streetpass ..

I NEVER trade locally with the recent games. don't know anyone who does either

anyway i say bring it to consoles where i'm sure their growing older fans will appreciate it much more

i mean look I'm 19 and my friends and I still play pokemon..my brother who is 7 ..Has zero interest in pokemon neither does all his friends. they're all into skylanders etc.

I'm the opposite. Moving away from handhelds is a surefire way to lose my interest. I'm sure a lot of people agree with me.

 

[JohnTinker]

I have bought every mainline game in the series other than B2/W2, and I'm really debating whether or not I get ORAS. These games are so doggone easy now in the last few iterations.

I was sick over the past week and began playing the TGC from the 3DS Virtual Console, and I contend that *that* game is the most addictive out of anything GF has released. There is a serious challenge and depth to it.

I stopped playing X/Y because I felt like there was no real reward to do things in the postgame. Maybe my tastes are changing as well, but I just want something more than the Pokemon-Amie and beauty contests and fashion and other things that are so non-essential. Then they force it upon you in order to evolve certain Pokemon and it becomes a total chore.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I'd actually argue that kids don't really use their CN codes to register.

 

[Lum1n3s]

The games are plenty dark when they want to be, X&Y especially. I don't remember if it was Masuda or Sugimori who said it, but they go into each Pokemon game with the idea that it may be someone's very first pokemon game. They intentionally keep the entry level low to get as many people playing.

I'm pretty sure B/W was much more dark than X/Y?

 

[JoeM86]

Can I just remind people that this article and the one it references refers to a trend of "lower sales". It compares X & Y's sales to Black & White's and says that it shows a massive decline.

X & Y have sold ~13.2 million.
Black & White have sold ~15 million.

Yes, that looks bad, except that these numbers for X & Y are at the 1 year mark (technically 11 and a half months) while Black & White's are at the 4 year mark.

Conversely, at the same point in Pokémon Black & White's life, Black & White had sold...low and behold, 13.6 million (September 2010 to September 2011), and that was on a device with three times the installed units. Incidentally, Diamond & Pearl's were lower than both at 12.1 million (September 2006 to September 2007). also, when DP were at the 4 year mark was also at around 15 million.

This article's premise is based on numbers, which while true, are completely devoid of context. They're removing sales periods to determine reductions, they compare games in the middle of the generation with ones at the start (middle ones always sell less, and have far less appeal with kids. Kids buy for new Pokémon).

Pokémon's older audience is growing. This is a fact. It's why Pokkén is coming. However, the younger audience is not diminishing.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

They need to make it feel more like the show.

Like not at all. To the contrary, they should make the show actually better. Not even saying to appeal a older audience, just... better.

 

[Toxi]

I think Nintendo needs to make the franchise a bit darker. It is clearly what the fans want.

When Pokemon gets dark, it's cringey stuff. Pokemon X and Y had a genocidal maniac as the villain and were hilariously stupid.

"Our plan to deal with selfish people fighting over finite resources is to kill everyone else and take the resources for ourselves!"

One of the big mistakes of the franchise post GSC was integrating a more developed plot, because the writing is shit.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I'd add a Battle frontier, that would solve everything

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

I'll be playing Pokemon when I'm 90 lol all I want from pokemon is a hard mode

 

[thewhitehawk]

TPC seems to be doing just fine doing what they have been doing since the original games and honestly I doubt that's going to change unless sales start to drop severely.

At this point it would be naive to believe they're going to do anything radically different from what they've done so far.

In my opinion, and this may be controversial, I think the light-hearted, low skill-floor but high skill-ceiling are what have kept Pokemon gamers throughout the years. Some people criticise them for not evolving the game enough and some of them feel like rehashes of the previous ones, but to be fair, their formula still works great up until this day, and fans continue to be pleased with what they offer, so why change that radically?

Let's look at a counter example, Square had an increasingly more successful with Final Fantasy and made some iterative changes during the NES/SNES games without losing sight of what made the series special and reach all-time-high sales during the golden era when gaming became mainstream. After that, they started to try to radically reinvent the franchise in every new iteration and as such the quality of the games plummeted and sales never returned to what they wished. They dug themselves into a hole by making high-budget titles of increasingly higher value and by desperately trying to reinvent the formula for no good reason other than to be different.

In TPCs, I would continue doing what they have been doing so far. If I'd change anything it would be perhaps to try to organize more tournaments, make a new Pokemon stadium to improve the broadcasting aspect of those tournaments and just keep making gradual iterations and improvement to their formula because it continues to work and sell very well.

 

[AnkiRendan]

I want them to step away from the annual releases. I hate the fact that Pokemon's been annual for a few years now. Take a damn break.

 

[joelseph]

i mean look I'm 19 and my friends and I still play pokemon..my brother who is 7 ..Has zero interest in pokemon neither does all his friends. they're all into skylanders etc.

I was 19 when I bought Red. I would argue the fanbase is not keeping pace with the series, more that the series has just been around for a very long time.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

TPC seems to be doing just fine doing what they have been doing since the original games and honestly I doubt that's going to change unless sales start to drop severely.

At this point it would be naive to believe they're going to do anything radically different from what they've done so far.

In my opinion, and this may be controversial, I think the light-hearted, low skill-floor but high skill-ceiling are what have kept Pokemon gamers throughout the years. Some people criticise them for not evolving the game enough and some of them feel like rehashes of the previous ones, but to be fair, their formula still works great up until this day, and fans continue to be pleased with what they offer, so why change that radically?

Let's look at a counter example, Square had an increasingly more successful with Final Fantasy and made some iterative changes during the NES/SNES games without losing sight of what made the series special and reach all-time-high sales during the golden era when gaming became mainstream. After that, they started to try to radically reinvent the franchise in every new iteration and as such the quality of the games plummeted and sales never returned to what they wished. They dug themselves into a hole by making high-budget titles of increasingly higher value and by desperately trying to reinvent the formula for no good reason other than to be different.

In TPCs, I would continue doing what they have been doing so far. If I'd change anything it would be perhaps to try to organize more tournaments, make a new Pokemon stadium to improve the broadcasting aspect of those tournaments and just keep making gradual iterations and improvement to their formula because it continues to work and sell very well.

FF and Pokemon are kind of two way different beasts, thought. Square problems had more to do with bad management, HD and losing/downgrading talent

 

[Ezalc]

Well, it only took 14 posts.

Anyways, Pokemon is just weird. I'm in University full of 20 year old something and ORAS is insanely popular among this demographic. You couldn't talk about Pokemon in high school without getting made fun of, and yet everyone is so open once they reach this age. It's funny to see.

Whoops huge image.

 

[Somnid]

They needed a full revamp about 3 gens ago. At this rate they seem to be too scared to chop off the legacy and get a new start and that's part of the reason I'm not excited to play anymore. It feels rote and forgettable if I were a kid there would be no push to adopt at any particular one because none of them have outside hype to back them. Only the fans care, and as a fan who buys every iteration I'm getting wary too.

 

[ash_ag]

I wouldn't say it's ageing per se, but rather expanding. If I remember correctly, in Japan, there is a smaller Under 18 population than there used to be. I've heard that it's a strange situation. I may be wrong, though, can't remember where I read this.

Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire buck the trend a little. They have sales almost as high as the start of a generation (which seldom happens), and that's largely due to nostalgia. It's not that Pokémon's audience is getting older, it's that these games appealed to the older audience more due to the nostalgia factor. Iwata even commented on this in the Investor Briefing a couple of months ago. It's not that it's appealing less to children, it's that it's appealing to more adults as well.

Now, if we start a new generation in 2017 and it's like this, then it's time to start worrying.

All in all though, they don't have to do anything. The games are still selling. To fundamentally change things would be catastrophic.

That's a really, really fair point. Japan's demographic crisis is a serious problem that certainly plays a role in the whole situation. However, I wholeheartedly disagree that the time to start worrying is yet to come.

I think the very concept of Mega Evolution shows their awareness of the problem and their effort to tackle it. It's not a constitutional change, but it's certainly a refinement of a very fundamental element of the series, which might have been used to introduce interest and excitement. But I'm not sure if it is enough to sustain it for the long-term.

They do got something in their back pocket. But they will never do it in fear of ending civilization as we know it: The Pokemon MMO.

It's funny, because there are people who fanatically oppose the idea of a Pokémon MMO, and others who are very open to it. Personally, I think PSS brings a majority of elements I'd like to see in an MMO. The multi-massive interaction is relatively confined in a user interface, but you can certainly feel it.

In any case, I don't think an MMO per se would do much for the series' popularity, since the genre is populated by hardcore players, and Pokémon has no real need for more hardcore players. However, I do agree that some change in the basic gameplay (like further enhancement of social features) would help.

I think Pokémon could use some experimentation. How? No idea.

That's the question. This might sound funny, but I'd personally invest on a feature that marries (and expands) Super Secret Bases with My Pokémon Ranch. You heard me. It might sound ridiculous (and potentially Minecraft-esque) but I think it could be popular with kids (and adults likewise) and utilise a lot of unused potential of the series.

Pokemon doesn't need to be gritty, but it's always better when it's taking the scale of its concept and world seriously. XY is my favourite game to date, because it has the best reconciliation of the kid friendly concept and the inevitable questions that arise with Pokemon, like animal rights, companionship and, surprisingly, how they would have been used in warfare and the consequences therein.

I don't desire for a dark and bloody story. Theming, not events, is what gets me going on these games.

I can't agree more. I could personally not care less for the story becoming more serious and "mature". The games I enjoyed most from a single-player perspective were those that included a well-thought world building. The Pokémon world can really immerse you, and that's what they should invest on; making the games even more immersive and personal to each player. A good story are quality world-building are not mutually exclusive, of course, but the latter should be prioritised.

Speaking of Japan's demographic crisis, I think entering China might be a good move. They are really up-and-coming in the game industry, and growing a large young fanbase in China should be in their best interest. iQue 3DS has already released there -- how come now XY/ORAS? Is it a logistical issue?

 

[Zalman]

I wouldn't do anything, because the sales have yet to decline. X/Y are doing great on a much smaller install base than the DS'.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I really hope we see more spin-offs again.

Pokemon Ranger 2 and Mysterious Dungeon Darkness/Time/Sky were both really fun games, with interesting plots (I still say the best of the franchise) that I thought appealed to the older crowd, especially the latter.

And the Pikachu and PokePark games look pretty fun...the first was mainly a mini-game collection, but the second moves onto a more 3D Platforming adventure, which I think kids would love if they refined that. A Banjo-Kazooie style platformer with Pokemon? Sign me up!

Like not at all. To the contrary, they should make the show actually better. Not even saying to appeal a older audience, just... better.

Diamond and Pearl was probably the most "mature" the series has got since the original days, maybe even more so? It seems like they wanted to appeal to a more grown-up audience (not really adults, but more teen?) with more long-lasting plots, somewhat of a more "Shonen-style" approach to battles, with regular training episodes and learning new moves, and some pretty interesting plot-points. Plus Ash ended up with two fully evolved Starters.

Now, the problem was this stretched out to 200~ episodes, and I recall the ratings dropped actually, but I really appreciated that season as a long-time fan. It wasn't exactly like the "good old days", but it was a direction the series hadn't really gone before, and I enjoyed it.

Best Wishes though actually went back on that, it tried to go for a "Kanto" feel, but ended up feeling the weakest and childish part of the series for me. It just---was bland? There were some good ideas---for once a whole new cast alongside Ash with no Brock, he got the Starters again and caught a bunch of Pokemon once more, less Team Rocket and making them "serious"---but all of it faltered, and it didn't have the fun and adventure of the original series, nor did it have the nice continuity and battles of Diamond and Pearl.

XY so far seems like it's going a bit back towards DP---better battles, now with really nice animation with actual backgrounds and less stock-attacks, better development and plotlines, etc.

I'm not really a fan of Special or Origins, what people want the show to be like, I just want a show on-part with Diamond and Pearl, but trimming the fat.

 

[Grakl]

I'm actually perfectly happy with TPC right now. I like that a Pokemon fighting game is being developed as well, since that's my favorite genre. Making mainline games more funny and expansive would be good, I suppose. They already do humor well.

Well, it only took 14 posts.

Anyways, Pokemon is just weird. I'm in University full of 20 year old something and ORAS is insanely popular among this demographic. You couldn't talk about Pokemon in high school without getting made fun of, and yet everyone is so open once they reach this age. It's funny to see.

edit: lol I got beat

 

[Boss Doggie]

Dating sim.

 

[thewhitehawk]

FF and Pokemon are kind of two way different beasts, thought. Square problems had more to do with bad management, HD and losing/downgrading talent

Isn't management what we're talking about here? I think I made a pretty compelling argument about why they shouldn't change many things.

 

[JoeM86]

I wouldn't do anything, because the sales have yet to decline. X/Y are doing great on a much smaller install base than the DS'.

Not just great, they're doing on par with both DS generation starting games. Though I am concerned they won't have the legs of its predecessors. DP had 2 years before Platinum. BW had 1 year and 9 months before B2W2. XY had 13 months before ORAS.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

When Pokemon gets dark, it's cringey stuff. Pokemon X and Y had a genocidal maniac as the villain and were hilariously stupid.

"Our plan to deal with selfish people fighting over finite resources is to kill everyone else and take the resources for ourselves!"

One of the big mistakes of the franchise post GSC was integrating a more developed plot, because the writing is shit.

Dunno If I will brand that as a mistake as the main problem is actually the writters.

 

[jwhit28]

Isn't this a good thing? Just like Mario, Mickey, and other long lasting IPs, won't parents spread this love to kids? I heard my 4 year old niece singing the original anime opening theme the other day and found out she learned it from the XY anime.

 

[Lum1n3s]

Well, it only took 14 posts.

Anyways, Pokemon is just weird. I'm in University full of 20 year old something and ORAS is insanely popular among this demographic. You couldn't talk about Pokemon in high school without getting made fun of, and yet everyone is so open once they reach this age. It's funny to see.

Got to keep that image in high school lol. A lot of college kids, friends and people I see at conventions actually play Pokémon like no other which is pretty awesome. Heck, even my girl is playing ORAS with me =).

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Dating sim.

I'm afraid to ask.