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[Boss Doggie]

Ok, it seems like things at Serebii have started to cool down now that he is talking about it (approves of it but doesn't think it's true or at the very least thinks it should be explored in the 5th gen games) and people have been throwing down the "DPP takes up less than 50% of the DS card!" line.

Did I miss anything?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

man pokemon has gotten fukken weird in the last ten years

 

[Ollie Pooch]

wow, my fella is gonna wet himself at this news. knew it was coming out but he'll be stoked that it's official

 

[Teknoman]

man pokemon has gotten fukken weird in the last ten years

They're robot...alien...ancient...pokemon guardian..things. How'd you expect em to sound?

After hearing their battle theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7SrUYEKMOg&NR=1 though, actually kinda thought they would sound strange.

Now I want to know how Deoxys sounds anime style :lol

Arceus will probably speak telepathically.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Big MEH at the graphics. Imagine these graphics in a Pokemon game:

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Ok, it seems like things at Serebii have started to cool down now that he is talking about it (approves of it but doesn't think it's true or at the very least thinks it should be explored in the 5th gen games) and people have been throwing down the "DPP takes up less than 50% of the DS card!" line.

Has it occurred to anyone that the different looks needn't actually be separate sprites? All they'd really need to do would be to have a base sprite, a set of quirks for each (say, a pattern of spots, tufts of hair, different eye shapes etc., all overlayed onto the base sprite) and then an algorithm based on IVs that determine:

- Whether or not the quirk is visible on the base sprite at all
- Positioning of the quirk with respect to the base sprite
- Size of the quirk

It'd basically be the same thing as they did with Spinda back in RSE. There aren't 65,000 different Spinda sprites on the RSE cartridges. Rather, there is a single Spinda sprite and each Spinda's pattern of spots is procedurally generated from its IVs (and possibly capture data) every single time that particular Spinda's sprite is displayed.

The beauty of it is that since the IV data remains constant for each monster, the individual look will always be the same, even if the monster was traded over from another game. An added bonus is that since IVs are partly inherited, certain quirks can be passed down the family line.

 

[Eteric Rice]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

 

[Lucario]

man pokemon has gotten fukken weird in the last ten years

Hey, that movie is great.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

If by "best," you mean "good enough to battle with pros," then yeah. You'll need to breed new Pokemon. I IV breed and EV train, but I don't worry about that stuff when I'm playing through the storyline (and you shouldn't either, unless you just want to for some odd reason).

Here are a few resources for learning about IVs/EVs:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/breeding_guide_part1

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33832

 

[jman2050]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

I'm pretty sure the newer games have berries that can be used to lower EVs.

What I'm not sure of is if there's a way to reset stats after reaching level 100.

 

[Teknoman]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

No. Just feed em EV reducing berries once you've completed the main story line, and EV train from there.

 

[truendo]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

Yep!

Well, you could always use the EV-reducing berries, but that's just tedious.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

I'm pretty sure the newer games have berries that can be used to lower EVs.

They do, but those are really just for fixing small mistakes you've made. Or if you're serious breeder and have lots of them lying around, then I guess you'd be able to use them to completely wipe a Pokemon's EVs.

Pomeg Berry (-HP)
Kelpsy Berry (-Atk)
Qualot Berry (-Def)
Hondew Berry (-SpA)
Grepa Berry (-SpD)
Tamato Berry (-Spe)

IIRC, the first berry reduces the EVs to 100 (if they were above 100), and once a stat is at 100, each berry reduces it by ten.

 

[Wii Will Rock U]

Hey, that movie is great.

You are asking for an avatar quote. :lol

 

[Deleted member 21120]

man pokemon has gotten fukken weird in the last ten years

Wow, that one that makes the knocking-on-a-door noise is frightening.

 

[Eteric Rice]

If by "best," you mean "good enough to battle with pros," then yeah. You'll need to breed new Pokemon. I IV breed and EV train, but I don't worry about that stuff when I'm playing through the storyline (and you shouldn't either, unless you just want to for some odd reason).

Here are a few resources for learning about IVs/EVs:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/breeding_guide_part1

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33832

Jesus Christ thats confusing as fuck.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

They could probably turn those three's cries into a techno song.

Anyway, I have a question.

So, I'm reading about EVs. And I sort of understand it, but...

Does that mean the Pokemon I've trained up until now are fucked, and at the end I'll have to train completely new ones to get the best out of my Pokemon? :|

Not necessarily. You can undo wasted EVs using berries that lower stats (you thought they were useless, didn't you?) and focus instead on the ones that matter.

Usually EVs go toward recalculating a monster's stats on levelling up. You can get around this at lvl 100 by box dipping - putting the monster in a PC box, logging off, logging back on and taking it out again. The stats will be recalculated to take into account the EVs you gained.

Using this method, you can un-gimp rare-candied up monsters and make them lean mean battling machines just like the ones you painstakingly bred and coddled from birth.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Not necessarily. You can undo wasted EVs using berries that lower stats (you thought they were useless, didn't you?) and focus instead on the ones that matter.

Usually EVs go toward recalculating a monster's stats on levelling up. You can get around this at lvl 100 by box dipping - putting the monster in a PC box, logging off, logging back on and taking it out again. The stats will be recalculated to take into account the EVs you gained.

Using this method, you can un-gimp rare-candied up monsters and make them lean mean battling machines just like the ones you painstakingly bred and coddled from birth.

What if they're already like, level 50 and shit? Doesn't level come into play somewhere?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

 

[Banana Kid]

Big MEH at the graphics. Imagine these graphics in a Pokemon game:

That would be horrible. I don't want realistic Pokemon, it would destroy the fun of it. It absolutely must be cartoony.

 

[jman2050]

What if they're already like, level 50 and shit? Doesn't level come into play somewhere?

Nope.

A pokemon's stats are a function of its level, its IVs, and its EVs, but neither of the three are actually associated with each other in any way. You could EV train a LV 1 pokemon to max EVs if battle experience weren't a factor.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Nope.

A pokemon's stats are a function of its level, its IVs, and its EVs, but neither of the three are actually associated with each other in any way. You could EV train a LV 1 pokemon to max EVs if battle experience weren't a factor.

So they could be level 100 and I could still fix them?

Though they'd be eating a lot of berries I guess. @_@

 

[truendo]

So they could be level 100 and I could still fix them?

Though they'd be eating a lot of berries I guess. @_@

Actually, no you can't. Even with putting a pokemon in and out of the box, EVs can't be changed at level 100.

As I recall, the berries won't even work at level 100. (The friendship part will, but the EV-reducing won't)

 

[Firestorm]

So they could be level 100 and I could still fix them?

Though they'd be eating a lot of berries I guess. @_@

Think of EVs as stat points that you can distribute at will.

The maximum EVs you can give your Pokemon are 510. The maximum per stat is 255. The maximum amount of USEFUL EVs per stat is 252 though so stop at 252.

4 EVs = 1 point increase in a stat for a LV100 Pokemon.

Edit: As for berries, if you have over 100 EVs on a Pokemon for the stat, the berry takes it down to 100 no matter what it's at. Then each berry takes away 10 EVs.

 

[Lucario]

You are asking for an avatar quote. :lol

I knew I shouldn't have picked the goofy smile :lol

I'm not sure what to think about this whole "inherited looks" mechanic. It's going to create some awkward looking pokemon if it's as in-depth as people seem to think it is.

 

[Wii Will Rock U]

I knew I shouldn't have picked the goofy smile :lol

Or, you know, maybe the fact that it is LUCARIO with a goofy smile and your name is fucking LUCARIO. :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

Think of EVs as stat points that you can distribute at will.

The maximum EVs you can give your Pokemon are 510. The maximum per stat is 255. The maximum amount of USEFUL EVs per stat is 252 though so stop at 252.

4 EVs = 1 point increase in a stat for a LV100 Pokemon.

Edit: As for berries, if you have over 100 EVs on a Pokemon for the stat, the berry takes it down to 100 no matter what it's at. Then each berry takes away 10 EVs.

I see.

Do people normally put them all into two stats, or just spread them about as needed?

Also, can you get these from fighting low level Pokemon? That guide listed a bunch of areas to train them at. But would fighting a bunch of level 10 Magikarps with a level 40 Bidoof (first thing that comes to mind >_<) actually give him EVs?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Think of EVs as stat points that you can distribute at will.

The maximum EVs you can give your Pokemon are 510. The maximum per stat is 255. The maximum amount of USEFUL EVs per stat is 252 though so stop at 252.

4 EVs = 1 point increase in a stat for a LV100 Pokemon.

Edit: As for berries, if you have over 100 EVs on a Pokemon for the stat, the berry takes it down to 100 no matter what it's at. Then each berry takes away 10 EVs.

yeah that's cool and all but i wanna make a red scyther that shoots fire from its eyes

 

[Teknoman]

Heh I usually dont have to worry about berries since I hold onto all my stuff, then farm a ton close to endgame.

 

[Firestorm]

I see.

Do people normally put them all into two stats, or just spread them about as needed?

Also, can you get these from fighting low level Pokemon? That guide listed a bunch of areas to train them at. But would fighting a bunch of level 10 Magikarps with a level 40 Bidoof (first thing that comes to mind >_<) actually give him EVs?

Yes. As long as you get any experience points you'll get the EVs as well. And it all depends really. A few of my Pokemon have the 252/252/6 EV spread (2 stats maxed + randomed into another) while others I thought out more carefully trying to give just enough to survive attacks from certain Pokemon 100% of the time.

Check Jiggy's guide in the other thread. It's a great EV training tool.

 

[Lucario]

Or, you know, maybe the fact that it is LUCARIO with a goofy smile and your name is fucking LUCARIO. :lol

Well that was more direct than an avatar quote, wasn't it? :lol

.... That movie still rocked.

Spoiler

it's best if you skip past the parts with ash

 

[ShockingAlberto]

SPEAKING OF POKEMON MUSIC

Diamond and Pearl had one of my favorite tracks of the series

Cynthia's theme

 

[truendo]

I see.

Do people normally put them all into two stats, or just spread them about as needed?

Also, can you get these from fighting low level Pokemon? That guide listed a bunch of areas to train them at. But would fighting a bunch of level 10 Magikarps with a level 40 Bidoof (first thing that comes to mind >_<) actually give him EVs?

You can check smogon for tons of IV spreads.

If I'm making a sweeper, I'll calculate how many speed EVs I need to outrun certain Pokemon, and then, after knowing the amount of speed EVs I need, I'll put the remaining EVs in two other stats.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Yes. As long as you get any experience points you'll get the EVs as well. And it all depends really. A few of my Pokemon have the 252/252/6 EV spread (2 stats maxed + randomed into another) while others I thought out more carefully trying to give just enough to survive attacks from certain Pokemon 100% of the time.

Check Jiggy's guide in the other thread. It's a great EV training tool.

So would this technically mean you'd be sort of better off not training your Pokemon up to level 100, since the game can do that automatically in battles against other people?

I mean, that way you'd be able to sort of adapt to different strategies over time.

 

[truendo]

So would this technically mean you'd be sort of better off not training your Pokemon up to level 100, since the game can do that automatically in battles against other people?

I mean, that way you'd be able to sort of adapt to different strategies over time.

Yeah. Since D/P came out, I haven't trained my Pokemon to lvl. 100 at all. After IV breeding, I just give my pokemon the EVs I want it to have, get its moveset, and then I'm done with it. It's one of the best things about D/P. I don't have to waste time leveling up! <3

 

[Black-Wind]

[

Did I miss anything?

Heres the run down!
Wii Will rock U's leak about this new feature thing was posted up on Serebii's forum . . . ALL the people there were all like "WTH? . . . Fake! That would take up WAAAYYY too much time/ space to give every pokemon that many sprites >_> . . . see my Pokemon pon? But yeah, I don't trust the dude and it would be useless if they don't DO anything different".

That carries on for 2 pages before Serebii walks in and says this . . .

I see this as being a very very intriguing concept, and apart from me having to totally redecide how to do the Pokédex (Probably include a sub-section called Genetic Differences under the standard sprites). However, personally, I do not see it as likely.

Although they could do it in a similar manner to Spinda and his 4.6 billion possible sprites, there's a difference between random spots and manipulations on things such as the ear.

I'll see what I can find out

He talks abit in the thread, people talk about how space aint a damn problem and how cool it could be . . . and now they seem to be interested in it.

Has it occurred to anyone that the different looks needn't actually be separate sprites? All they'd really need to do would be to have a base sprite, a set of quirks for each (say, a pattern of spots, tufts of hair, different eye shapes etc., all overlayed onto the base sprite) and then an algorithm based on IVs that determine:

- Whether or not the quirk is visible on the base sprite at all
- Positioning of the quirk with respect to the base sprite
- Size of the quirk

It'd basically be the same thing as they did with Spinda back in RSE. There aren't 65,000 different Spinda sprites on the RSE cartridges. Rather, there is a single Spinda sprite and each Spinda's pattern of spots is procedurally generated from its IVs (and possibly capture data) every single time that particular Spinda's sprite is displayed.

The beauty of it is that since the IV data remains constant for each monster, the individual look will always be the same, even if the monster was traded over from another game. An added bonus is that since IVs are partly inherited, certain quirks can be passed down the family line.

Some smart people over there have thought of this or things like it.

 

[Teknoman]

So would this technically mean you'd be sort of better off not training your Pokemon up to level 100, since the game can do that automatically in battles against other people?

I mean, that way you'd be able to sort of adapt to different strategies over time.

Exactly. Just like Truendo said (after beating the main storyline of course), train em for the moveset, EV train, and thats that.

Whats the point of lvl 50 battles though? Quick matches?

 

[Eteric Rice]

Exactly. Just like Truendo said (after beating the main storyline of course), train em for the moveset, EV train, and thats that.

Whats the point of lvl 50 battles though? Quick matches?

Suppose not.

Sounds good to me, though. I hate training my Pokemon to level 100. I suppose if all the serious players actually had to do that, they'd have quit by now. Lol.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Or, you know, maybe the fact that it is LUCARIO with a goofy smile and your name is fucking LUCARIO. :lol

Doesn't change the fact that it was an awesome movie!

Aw hell I'll do it myself:

 

[Wii Will Rock U]

Doesn't change the fact that it was an awesome movie!

Aw hell I'll do it myself:

FAIL.

Dear Junior Member, quick note: never under any circumstance avatar quote yourself.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

What happened to his name? :lol

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Actually, no you can't. Even with putting a pokemon in and out of the box, EVs can't be changed at level 100.

As I recall, the berries won't even work at level 100. (The friendship part will, but the EV-reducing won't)

Really? I didn't know that (haven't had to deal with it in the past at all).

Did I miss anything?

Heres the run down!
Wii Will rock U's leak about this new feature thing was posted up on Serebii's forum . . . ALL the people there were all like "WTH? . . . Fake! That would take up WAAAYYY too much time/ space to give every pokemon that many sprites >_> . . . see my Pokemon pon? But yeah, I don't trust the dude and it would be useless if they don't DO anything different".

That carries on for 2 pages before Serebii walks in and says this . . .

I see this as being a very very intriguing concept, and apart from me having to totally redecide how to do the Pokédex (Probably include a sub-section called Genetic Differences under the standard sprites). However, personally, I do not see it as likely.

Although they could do it in a similar manner to Spinda and his 4.6 billion possible sprites, there's a difference between random spots and manipulations on things such as the ear.

I'll see what I can find out

He talks abit in the thread, people talk about how space aint a damn problem and how cool it could be . . . and now they seem to be interested in it.

Has it occurred to anyone that the different looks needn't actually be separate sprites? All they'd really need to do would be to have a base sprite, a set of quirks for each (say, a pattern of spots, tufts of hair, different eye shapes etc., all overlayed onto the base sprite) and then an algorithm based on IVs that determine:

- Whether or not the quirk is visible on the base sprite at all
- Positioning of the quirk with respect to the base sprite
- Size of the quirk

It'd basically be the same thing as they did with Spinda back in RSE. There aren't 65,000 different Spinda sprites on the RSE cartridges. Rather, there is a single Spinda sprite and each Spinda's pattern of spots is procedurally generated from its IVs (and possibly capture data) every single time that particular Spinda's sprite is displayed.

The beauty of it is that since the IV data remains constant for each monster, the individual look will always be the same, even if the monster was traded over from another game. An added bonus is that since IVs are partly inherited, certain quirks can be passed down the family line.

Some smart people over there have thought of this or things like it.

Very good. I don't like reading through most Serebii threads because of the underwhelming proportion of intelligent discussion that goes on there, despite (or perhaps because of) it being the first place with the news.

I remember I made an account there during the DP hype days and participating in a grand total of one thread devoid of idiotic fanboy dribbling. One brief, glorious moment where I discussed the pokemon games, their design and direction intelligently with like-minded people. It was like a single perfect snowflake that you held in your hand - it was there and it was gone again as though it had never existed.

 

[Wii Will Rock U]

What happened to his name? :lol

I think that they are two different Lucario worshippers...

 

[Firestorm]

I think we should stop following Serebii threads so our collective IQ doesn't drop several points ^_^

Yeah, Smogon is the only Pokemon site I can even stand discussion in. Serebii... Oh god x.x

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

That would be horrible. I don't want realistic Pokemon, it would destroy the fun of it. It absolutely must be cartoony.

uh... that is cartoony

either way, high quality sprites >> this game's pseudo-3D graphics

 

[larvi]

You can check smogon for tons of IV spreads.

If I'm making a sweeper, I'll calculate how many speed EVs I need to outrun certain Pokemon, and then, after knowing the amount of speed EVs I need, I'll put the remaining EVs in two other stats.

One thing to be aware of regarding the smogon EV spreads is that they assume perfect IVs which is usually not the case with real pokemon. I.e. they may say you need 100 speed EVs to outspeed a jolly garchomp, if you have less than a 31 IV in speed you would need to add EVs to compensate.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I think we should stop following Serebii threads so our collective IQ doesn't drop several points ^_^

Yeah, Smogon is the only Pokemon site I can even stand discussion in. Serebii... Oh god x.x

Never tried Smogon. Might have to give that place a go some time.

 

[truendo]

One thing to be aware of regarding the smogon EV spreads is that they assume perfect IVs which is usually not the case with real pokemon. I.e. they may say you need 100 speed EVs to outspeed a jolly garchomp, if you have less than a 31 IV in speed you would need to add EVs to compensate.

Yeah, I never (or almost never) follow smogon's EV spreads. I just suggest them to other people. Not saying they're not good or anything...

I just Metalkid's calculators to calculate the EVs I need myself.

 

[Firestorm]

One thing to be aware of regarding the smogon EV spreads is that they assume perfect IVs which is usually not the case with real pokemon. I.e. they may say you need 100 speed EVs to outspeed a jolly garchomp, if you have less than a 31 IV in speed you would need to add EVs to compensate.

Yeah, but as you said, if you just figure out your IVs you can usually compensate. There's often a reason for the EV spreads they use given in the description. So if that's important to you, just add more/less.

Never tried Smogon. Might have to give that place a go some time.

Moderation there is about as tough as GAF, so keep that in mind >.> It's very focused on battling though. Not much else.

 

[Error]

Seems like they didn't update the 3D engine at all.

are you surprised? gamefreaks is so fucking lazy! just embarassing that it looks EXACTLY the same as D/P.

If they speed up the battles considerably, and fix all the interface problems that D/P had... I might bother. Otherwise, there's no point.