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[besada]

I just don't think it's the right message to be sending our children. We complain about sending jobs overseas and then we don't even use our own words? It's not a huge deal but there are little psychological changes we need to make to turn this country around.

Yep, that was the astonishing ignorance I'd been hearing.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Boehner Set To Call Obama's Bluff In Push For Short-Term Debt Ceiling Deal

STOP PLAYING CHICKEN WITH THE FUTURE OF THE FUCKING COUNTRY!

A short term deal with spending cuts would mean the GOP won by taking the country hostage.

We need a vote of no-confidence in the US. I bet, if the election were tomorrow, Democrats would take both houses with sweeping majorities as voters regret their (wrong) decision of picking the GOP.

Have their been any polls lately
"Do you regret voting for your politician this past election?"

 

[besada]

Thanks to whoever recommended Boogie Man upthread. I already knew quite a bit about Atwater, because he was Rove before Rove, but I'm really enjoying hearing some of the early stories, before he came onto my radar. A really well done political documentary, and a must watch for those that don't know the history of Lee Atwater.

 

[Vestal]

Heres a question for our few Republican contributors.

If we as a country ask the poor and the middle class to go fight wars for us, what is so wrong about asking the rich to help out a bit more with what the have most?

 

[Oblivion]

Heres a question for our few Republican contributors.

If we as a country ask the poor and the middle class to go fight wars for us, what is so wrong about asking the rich to help out a bit more with what the have most?

George Washington would have been offended at such a proposal, sir.

 

[Byakuya769]

Heres a question for our few Republican contributors.

If we as a country ask the poor and the middle class to go fight wars for us, what is so wrong about asking the rich to help out a bit more with what the have most?

"Military service is voluntary. Likewise if rich people want to help out by paying more taxes, they can send in additional money voluntarily."

 

[Vestal]

"Military service is voluntary. Likewise if rich people want to help out by paying more taxes, they can send in additional money voluntarily."

Right......

Since we give the poor SOOOOO many choices outside of Military service......

 

[Jackson50]

Have you seen the rally that Perry is having in texas?!?! if that is not hardcore right wing i don't know what is..


Oh and Romneys problem is that he is a Moderate at heart but has to spout retarded bullshit to get through the GOP Primary.

I do not think it is a major deal; politically, that is. Sadly, the majority of our country has long accepted the synthesis of religion and politics.

Romney is prudently displaying some measure. He mostly maintains the traditional conservative position while avoiding the more polarizing stances and rhetoric of the other candidates.

 

[Byakuya769]

Right......

Since we give the poor SOOOOO many choices outside of Military service......

There's your problem.. you assume that conservatives don't agree with that central assumption.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

There's your problem.. you assume that conservatives don't agree with that central assumption.

Speaking of which, do Conservatives believe in underemployment?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Agreed, the public sees what's happening. I would much rather have him unilaterally raise it than take the McConnell/Reid deal, which is a joke. I'm sure the GOP freshmen will start talking about impeachment but the leadership will be relieved Obama got them off the hook. And when a house member sues over it, I seriously doubt the SC would rule against Obama and plunge the world into economic disaster

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Heres a question for our few Republican contributors.

If we as a country ask the poor and the middle class to go fight wars for us, what is so wrong about asking the rich to help out a bit more with what the have most?

It's a volunteer military. Don't like to serve, don't join.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

By who, the house? I doubt Boehner would sign off on that. Nor would the senate obviously

 

[XMonkey]

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

So the Plan B deal hatched by McConnell giving Obama the authority to do that... was purely a trap?

He won't be impeached. Will some morons in the House call for his impeachment? Yes, almost certainly. Doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

So the Plan B deal hatched by McConnell giving Obama the authority to do that... was purely a trap?

He won't be impeached. Will some morons in the House call for his impeachment? Yes, almost certainly. Doesn't mean it will happen.

Obama's WH lawyers say he has no authority to do it. It would be political suicide.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama's WH lawyers say he has no authority to do it. It would be political suicide.

And even if he suddenly decided he wants to, he's boxed in because the administration has been telling everyone they can't do it.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

By who, the house? I doubt Boehner would sign off on that. Nor would the senate obviously

Has to be the House.

 

[Dude Abides]

Obama's WH lawyers say he has no authority to do it. It would be political suicide.

No it wouldn't. "I saved the economy from crazy Republicans" isn't political suicide. Nobody will give a shit what OLC thinks.

 

[scorcho]

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

by whom? i think it'd be pretty foolish of the GOP to press with impeachment proceedings during an election year.

 

[A Human Becoming]

He won't be impeached. Will some morons in the House call for his impeachment? Yes, almost certainly. Doesn't mean it will happen.

Clinton got impeached for lying about receiving a blow job under oath. I think there is a pretty good chance Obama would be as well.

 

[Oblivion]

Obama didn't say he's not going to use his executive power. He's sorta skirting around the issue by saying he's 'prefer' if congress did it.

Of course, all this is moot because Obama would GLADLY take an all cuts budget "deal" before he would even contemplate doing such a thing.

 

[RustyNails]

Impeached for saving the country? OK bulbo. Regardless, he should do what's right, not what's politically expedient. He also made it perfectly clear that he's willing to do just that, re-election campaign prospects be damned. Whereas McConnell and his friends made it clear to everyone that their number one priority is not jobs, spending or debt ceiling, but rather making Obama a one termer.

 

[besada]

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

Man, I wish. Like the last President the House decided to impeach, it will waste a shit ton of money, won't go anywhere, and he'll come out with a twenty point bounce in the polls. The House can start impeachment, but the trial happens in the Senate.

And just like last time, it'll break the back of the House Republicans. Let's get the impeachment under way.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Guys you are looking at this from the wrong point. Why do we want to increase the debt ceiling? So we can carry out our obligations and not have the interest on Treasury bonds go up. If Obama does the 14th amendment option, don't you think the market might not buy those bonds as cheaply as they have been? Its doomed to fail anyway. Obama ignoring Congress will just cause the market to not take our government seriously and spike the interest payments on our bonds by 50 points. That alone will cause us to go into a recession. Our only hope lies in Congress passing something giving the executive the authority to raise the debt limit.

 

[Incognito]

with a hilariously bad column tonight...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24friedman.html

a big wet kiss to the late david broder. this part, though, is pretty funny:

...Thanks to a quiet political start-up that is now ready to show its hand, a viable, centrist, third presidential ticket, elected by an Internet convention, is going to emerge in 2012. I know it sounds gimmicky — an Internet convention — but an impressive group of frustrated Democrats, Republicans and independents, called Americans Elect, is really serious, and they have thought out this process well. In a few days, Americans Elect will formally submit the 1.6 million signatures it has gathered to get on the presidential ballot in California as part of its unfolding national effort to get on the ballots of all 50 states for 2012.

The goal of Americans Elect is to take a presidential nominating process now monopolized by the Republican and Democratic parties, which are beholden to their special interests, and blow it wide open — guaranteeing that a credible third choice, nominated independently, will not only be on the ballot in every state but be able to take part in every presidential debate and challenge both parties from the middle with the best ideas on how deal with the debt, education and jobs.

“Our goal is to open up what has been an anticompetitive process to people in the middle who are unsatisfied with the choices of the two parties,” said Kahlil Byrd, the C.E.O. of Americans Elect, speaking from its swank offices, financed with some serious hedge-fund money, a stone’s throw from the White House.

just love the juxtaposition of a group abhorring the two-party process as they sit in 'swank offices financed by hedge funs' that are a few feet from the white house.

“Each presidential candidate has to pick a running mate outside of their party and reaching across the divide of politics,” said Ackerman. In June 2012, the online convention will choose who among the six will run as the Americans Elect candidate — automatically on the ballot in all 50 states. If President Obama wants to run with John Boehner on the Americans Elect platform that would be fine — provided they go through the process. (President Obama should dump the Democrats and run as an independent, which he is, at heart, anyway.)

Write it down: Americans Elect. What Amazon.com did to books, what the blogosphere did to newspapers, what the iPod did to music, what drugstore.com did to pharmacies, Americans Elect plans to do to the two-party duopoly that has dominated American political life — remove the barriers to real competition, flatten the incumbents and let the people in. Watch out.

el oh el!

 

[speculawyer]

Risk a Constitutional crisis?
He'll be impeached.

For what crime?

 

[Escape Goat]

Whereas McConnell and his friends made it clear to everyone that their number one priority is not jobs, spending or debt ceiling, but rather making Obama a one termer.

and no abortions.

 

[jamesinclair]

I now understand all these games being played with the debt ceiling.

The GOP is desperate to get people away from talking about gun control.

Gunman kills self, 5 others at Texas roller rink

A man attending a birthday party at a roller rink opened fire Saturday night after an apparent spat between family members, killing five people and wounding at least three others before fatally shooting himself, authorities said.

The shootings happened around 7 p.m. at Forum Roller World in Grand Prairie when police said the man drew a pistol during a fight between a husband and wife. The names and ages of the victims weren't immediately released, and the relation of the gunman to the other victims wasn't clear.

http://news.yahoo.com/gunman-kills-self-5-others-texas-roller-rink-035211015.html

At least eight people were injured in a mass shooting at a car show in suburban Seattle on Saturday, police said.

Police were called to the low-rider show in Kent, south of Seattle, at 4:15 p.m. local time following reports of gunfire, police department spokesman Sgt. Jarod Kasner said.

"There was a car show taking place, and then a fight broke out in the parking lot," Kasner told Reuters.

"There was gunfire and multiple people were hit," he added.

http://news.yahoo.com/several-injured-seattle-area-shooting-reports-021011416.html

3 dead, 1 hurt in Ariz. motorcycle rally shooting

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. -- Three people were killed and one was critically wounded in an apparent murder-suicide shooting at a northern Arizona motorcycle rally, authorities said Saturday.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/23/3789334/3-dead-1-hurt-in-ariz-motorcycle.html#ixzz1SzlZKnN8


Just another day in america?

 

[jamesinclair]

And in other news, arent tax cuts great.

Watch those savings trickle down.

Can you feel it?

Some airline customers won't see savings this weekend even though several federal taxes on tickets have expired.

US Airways and American Airlines raised fares to offset the tax savings.

That means instead of passing along the savings from expired taxes, the carriers are pocketing the money while customers pay the same amount as before.

http://news.yahoo.com/flyers-may-not-see-savings-expired-taxes-185327278.html

 

[empty vessel]

Just another day in america?

Worst industrialized country in the world.

 

[zero_suit]

Worst industrialized country in the world.

Indeed, and it's a shame.

 

[jamesinclair]

That looks like an Op-Ed page. WSJ op-ed page has always been crazy.

Not an op-ed, straight from the editors.

Theyve gone ahead an edited it, but made no indication of said changes

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903461104576462124202226048.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[Diablos]

What is Boehner going to think he can accomplish?

I swear, behind closed doors he, Cantor and McConnell must be exhausting every last possible scenario to move the goalpost as close as fucking possible to the far right before they agree to move on.

I don't think this is going to end well at all. Obama will cave to save face by Aug. 2nd and allow something insane to happen like getting rid of the individual mandate. Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[jamesinclair]

Heres what Obama should do.

Reserve August 2nd primetime spot. All channels of course.

Have the "show" be him in his office, pen in hand, ready to sign the deal. Looking real serious and solemn.

Have a giant clock counting down to doom.

"19 minutes until default and global economic crisis"

Have a PIP screen labeled "GOP House" and show what theyre doing (ie: nothing)

Have analysts talk about how the GOP is trying to doom our country.

At 11:59, if no deal is on his desk, he 14th amendments that shit, and fireworks go off.

<end program>

August 3rd newspaper headlines: Obama pulls out constitutional maneuver to save global economy from doom!
Thousand pour into the street to celebrate.

 

[RustyNails]

I swear, behind closed doors he, Cantor and McConnell must be exhausting every last possible scenario to move the goalpost as close as fucking possible to the far right before they agree move on.

Actually behind closed doors, Cantor and Boehner are panicking because they cannot appease their teaparty caucus. The 60 something freshers elected in 2010 are majority from the teabag crowd (like Allen West) and they don't like raising the debt ceiling. I thought the symbolic house vote on debt ceiling would have given cover to those opposed to raising it, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Clevinger]

What is Boehner going to think he can accomplish?

He wants to keep doing this with Obama every few months leading to the election (and beyond, if he wins). Not only does (he think) Obama looks bad, but with each of these mini-debt ceiling raises he'll get massive spending cuts (and possibly tax cuts, too). If Obama refuses to do a mini-raise, it'll look like Obama is refusing to save the economy.

I mean, it's completely irresponsible and reprehensible, but if you're an almost cartoonishly evil piece of shit like Boehner (and McConnell and Cantor) is, it's a good move.

 

[Diablos]

And do they honestly think they can get away with that? They REALLY want to push this past the 2nd?

 

[Clevinger]

And do they honestly think they can get away with that? They REALLY want to push this past the 2nd?

They know Obama will cave by then, be it a mini-raise or whatever.

 

[Diablos]

Or repealing parts of PPACA.

Fuck the GOP. HOW COULD ANYONE LET THESE IDIOTS GET BACK INTO OFFICE SO QUICKLY?

Holy fucking shit America, this was only the WORST ECONOMIC DISASTER SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION (how many times did you have to hear it), do you really think anyone was gonna turn it around 100% in two years time? And do you really think the GOP has your best interests at heart above the Democrats, who certainly aren't perfect, but at least have some fucking ideas?

 

[Escape Goat]

Heres what Obama should do.

Reserve August 2nd primetime spot. All channels of course.

Have the "show" be him in his office, pen in hand, ready to sign the deal. Looking real serious and solemn.

Have a giant clock counting down to doom.

"19 minutes until default and global economic crisis"

Have a PIP screen labeled "GOP House" and show what theyre doing (ie: nothing)

Have analysts talk about how the GOP is trying to doom our country.

At 11:59, if no deal is on his desk, he 14th amendments that shit, and fireworks go off.

<end program>

August 3rd newspaper headlines: Obama pulls out constitutional maneuver to save global economy from doom!

Thousand pour into the street to celebrate the President's birthday.

Fixed.

 

[Clevinger]

Heres what Obama should do.

Reserve August 2nd primetime spot. All channels of course.

Have the "show" be him in his office, pen in hand, ready to sign the deal. Looking real serious and solemn.

Have a giant clock counting down to doom.

"19 minutes until default and global economic crisis"

Have a PIP screen labeled "GOP House" and show what theyre doing (ie: nothing)

Have analysts talk about how the GOP is trying to doom our country.

At 11:59, if no deal is on his desk, he 14th amendments that shit, and fireworks go off.

<end program>

August 3rd newspaper headlines: Obama pulls out constitutional maneuver to save global economy from doom!
Thousand pour into the street to celebrate.

Obama isn't Jed Bartlet, dude.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama's WH lawyers say he has no authority to do it. It would be political suicide.

Got a link for that? As far as I've read, Obama has never ruled out the constitutional option.

 

[Diablos]

Got a link for that? As far as I've read, Obama has never ruled out the constitutional option.

Either way, are you really counting on this?

Just because it may technically not be impeachable, that won't stop the Republicans from trying to twist every falsehood possible just enough to get the ball rolling and at the very least put his back against the wall (as if it isn't already) until the election.

I know Clinton is advocating for this, even saying he'd dare the courts. But that's Clinton for you.

 

[PantherLotus]

Talking about impeachment is a fucking joke.

 

[Byakuya769]

Speaking of which, do Conservatives believe in underemployment?

>: ) you mean "structural unemployment?"

... iphone typing at a club.. not the best for your spelling.

 

[Diablos]

Talking about impeachment is a fucking joke.

So was impeaching Clinton in the House for lying about a blowjob under oath. Didn't stop it from happening.

If Obama uses the 14th Amendment, and gets re-elected (the GOP will take back the Senate either way), watch out. The only thing that stopped Clinton from getting booted out of office was the fact that Democrats controlled the Senate.

They will be so butthurt from losing the WH in this scenario that they'd stop at nothing to completely wreck Obama's last four years in office and go even further by exploring impeachment options. We're dealing with ideological nutbags who just happen to call themselves Republicans, but are a mere shell of their former selves.

 

[jamesinclair]

the GOP will take back the Senate either way

Lol.

This country might be dumb, but america isnt suicidal.

Look at the polls. GOP wont win anything.

 

[Diablos]

Lol.

This country might be dumb, but america isnt suicidal.

Look at the polls. GOP wont win anything.

Uh. The GOP needs to pick up four seats. That's it. And most of the seats they are defending are in conservative states that would vote GOP no matter how bad the party is doing otherwise. The timing could not be worse for Democrats in the Senate; the Presidency remains to be seen but I've gone from cautiously optimistic to flat out not knowing what the fuck is going to happen there.

I'm all but guaranteeing that my Democratic Senator (Bob Casey from PA) will not have a chance. He might as well not show up. So you can scratch one (D) off the toss-up list, it's pretty much over for him. The last thing I remember him doing that was worth any significance was endorsing Obama over Hillary in the primary season. Yeah, that long ago. He's toast.

So take 4 down to 3.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So was impeaching Clinton in the House for lying about a blowjob under oath. Didn't stop it from happening.

If Obama uses the 14th Amendment, and gets re-elected (the GOP will take back the Senate either way), watch out. The only thing that stopped Clinton from getting booted out of office was the fact that Democrats controlled the Senate.

They will be so butthurt from losing the WH in this scenario that they'd stop at nothing to completely wreck Obama's last four years in office and go even further by exploring impeachment options. We're dealing with ideological nutbags who just happen to call themselves Republicans, but are a mere shell of their former selves.

So you're saying republicans would wait to impeach Obama until 2013, more than a year after he raised the debt limit (assuming they take the senate)? Come on.

If he raised it GOP freshmen would go insane, Boehner would make a series of ridiculous statements, Fox would go crazy, etc. A house member would probably sue to take this to the SC, who would most likely rule in Obama's favor rather than plunge the global economy. The American people, having watched republican obstruction for weeks, would side with Obama.

If the final deal if the McConnell joke, Obama should walk away from the table and dare republicans to default the country. If there is no agreement by August 1st, Obama should raise the ceiling himself.

 

[Clevinger]

Obama's WH lawyers say he has no authority to do it.

Got a link for that? As far as I've read, Obama has never ruled out the constitutional option.

I found it.

"There is a provision in our Constitution that speaks to making sure that the United States meets its obligations and there have been some suggestions that a president could use that language to basically ignore that debt ceiling rule, which is a statutory rule," Obama told a town hall meeting.

"I have talked to my lawyers, they are not persuaded that that is a winning argument," he said.