speculawyer
Member
I think facing default thus 'questioning the US debt' could persuade them.Clevinger said:
Some AP article I read gave me the impression that they were ready to proceed with the unilateral raising of the debt ceiling.
I think facing default thus 'questioning the US debt' could persuade them.Clevinger said:
Diablos said:Uh. The GOP needs to pick up four seats. That's it. And most of the seats they are defending are in conservative states that would vote GOP no matter how bad the party is doing otherwise. The timing could not be worse for Democrats in the Senate; the Presidency remains to be seen but I've gone from cautiously optimistic to flat out not knowing what the fuck is going to happen there.
I'm all but guaranteeing that my Democratic Senator (Bob Casey from PA) will not have a chance. He might as well not show up. So you can scratch one (D) off the toss-up list, it's pretty much over for him. The last thing I remember him doing that was worth any significance was endorsing Obama over Hillary in the primary season. Yeah, that long ago. He's toast.
So take 4 down to 3.
No you "come on". Have you been asleep or are you so used to how radical the right-wing is that you've accepted it as everyday politics?PhoenixDark said:So you're saying republicans would wait to impeach Obama until 2013, more than a year after he raised the debt limit (assuming they take the senate)? Come on.
Or they'd side with the GOP. A party that's good at balling their fucking eyes out and throwing temper tantrums (managed by organized, relentless negative campaigning) ad nasuem until the ignorant populace is beaten over the head with it to the extent that they second guess themselves and blame Obama as unemployment remains in the shitter. Welcome to American politics.If he raised it GOP freshmen would go insane, Boehner would make a series of ridiculous statements, Fox would go crazy, etc. A house member would probably sue to take this to the SC, who would most likely rule in Obama's favor rather than plunge the global economy. The American people, having watched republican obstruction for weeks, would side with Obama.
I'll believe it when I see it.If the final deal if the McConnell joke, Obama should walk away from the table and dare republicans to default the country. If there is no agreement by August 1st, Obama should raise the ceiling himself.
jamesinclair said:Please, theres a greater chance of the dems getting a super-majority in both houses than any republica gains.
mckmas8808 said:I'll try to respond to your points in broken up quotes so sorry for the confusion in advance.
I my opinion I don't think the bolded is true. I think the issue is that most people don't understand nuanced positions. I've read that people acting think Obama ran as a war hating Presidential nominee. Now if you have been following and listen to his campaign those people would have known that that was completely not true. I honestly think Barack doesn't like to close/pin himself into a position that he later can't move on. Like look at the GOP that signed that stupid Grover pledge to never raise taxes. Now when you reach a time when you have to push off of that, you can't do it because you swore to never do that.
I think it's not smart to make these bubbles of ideology that are so small and unworkable that it would be hard to work on big policy issues with the other party.
Please understand that he didn't pass any stimulus bill. The Congress did. He signed a stimulus bill. I only say that because you are kinda giving Congress a pass here. Especially some of the conservadems in the Senate. I think I remember reading something about his people wanting a 1.2 Trillion bill, but from memory I remember reading many Senators stating that nothing over a Trillion could get passed.
Then I also remember Sen. Nelson, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter and some other conservaDems pulling a BS move at the very end to lower the number under $800 Billion. Again imo it would be wrong to place the majority of the blame for a too small stimulus bill on the President for lack of principles.
You should care because it's how things get done. Instead of always being pissed off and ignorant about how/why something got passed and signed, it's good to know and understand the ins and outs. You don't have to agree, just understand. It's better for you in the long run to understand why it works this way. I'm not saying you are ignorant on the subject, but many people are and don't understand why compromise is even an option.
Dude you are so wrong that I don't even know what to say. You maybe remembering the American marketed version of Abe Lincoln, but things didn't quite happen the way you think they did.
Lincoln did offer compromises with slavery. The big one in my mind being that he told the current (at the time) slave owning states that they could keep their slaves. He didn't even offer to free all the slaves. That's one hell of a compromise.
What?jamesinclair said:Please, theres a greater chance of the dems getting a super-majority in both houses than any republica gains.
Clevinger said:Man, what? Democrats have 23 seats up, the GOP have only 10 seats up. Is there some poll I'm missing that shows a giant GOP backlash?
Okay. Let's do it.jamesinclair said:19.2% approval for congress.
17% says Gallup.
(I cant find any polls for senate GOP)
Obama is at around 50%.
Do the math.
Diablos said:I'm all but guaranteeing that my Democratic Senator (Bob Casey from PA) will not have a chance. He might as well not show up. So you can scratch one (D) off the toss-up list, it's pretty much over for him. The last thing I remember him doing that was worth any significance was endorsing Obama over Hillary in the primary season. Yeah, that long ago. He's toast.
So take 4 down to 3.
Bob Casey Jr in good shape.Pennsylvania polling we released last week showed Barack Obama in serious trouble in the state. But Bob Casey just continues to roll along, leading his actual opponents by 18-20 points and leading a bevy of potential candidates the GOP would probably rather have in the race by anywhere from 9-16 points.
Casey's approval numbers don't exactly set the world on fire, with 40% of voters giving him good marks to 32% who disapprove. Those numbers are deceptively weak though. What keeps them down is that Democrats aren't terribly enthused with Casey- only 56% of them approve of him to 18% who disapprove. You'd usually expect a Senator to be more in the 70-80% approval range with voters of his own party. But even if Democratic voters aren't enthralled with Casey 79-85% of them are still committed to voting for him in the general election and unenthusiastic votes count just the same as excited ones.
...
Casey's going to be very tough to beat. It's still odd that no serious Republican candidate has stepped up to try though.
Diablos said:It means the GOP holds the House, gets a slim majority in the Senate and Obama possibly gets re-elected.
jamesinclair said:19.2% approval for congress.
17% says Gallup.
(I cant find any polls for senate GOP)
Obama is at around 50%.
Do the math.
Rubenov said:I was going to read your substantial post, but the fact that you kept writing "principals" instead of "principles" just made me lose the desire to put the work in.
besada said:Thanks to whoever recommended Boogie Man upthread. I already knew quite a bit about Atwater, because he was Rove before Rove, but I'm really enjoying hearing some of the early stories, before he came onto my radar. A really well done political documentary, and a must watch for those that don't know the history of Lee Atwater.
state-of-the-art said:That was me. I'm glad somebody else watched it. I thought it was really informative, definitely recommend it.
PantherLotus said:I'm predicting huge democratic gains as well. Not super-majorities or anything, but the tea party will be a one-election fad, or a 1.5 election fad after they waste their votes on someone not named Romney.
jamesinclair said:Itll be like 2010 was for dems.
2010? It wasnt that people switched parties or masses of republicans came out, it was that dems stayed home.
2012? Republicans will stay home because the GOP has been a failure. It was all about jeeeerbs. There are still no jobs. Dems wont be running out (no hope or change), but the republican advantage is gone.
Will be a historically low voter turnout, IMO.
Nobody wants to vote for either party. But dems will get the slight edge because of how unpopular the new GOP is. If you really think Florida, Wisconsin and Ohio will be running out to vote GOP after they saw what happened last time, you're insane.
besada said:Then thank you, sir. Listening to Ed Rollins talk about beating the fuck out of Atwater was worth the price of admission alone. It's a really well-done film, and anyone who doesn't know the history should watch it.
PhoenixDark said:Ah, Obama did rule out the 14th amendment afterall. Fuck
You honestly believe republicans will stay home and let Obama get re-elected? They're going to turn out in force regardless of the nominee. If anyone needs to worry about turn out, it's democrats; youth and minority voting should be down, as both groups are facing high unemployment and disillusionment.
The Chosen One said:My binoculars are on Melissa Harris-Perry
Atilac said:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
This is a joke right? Super Congress?
Atilac said:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
This is a joke right? Super Congress?
accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers -- six from each chamber and six from each party.
A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits.
Atilac said:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
This is a joke right? Super Congress?
Atilac said:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
This is a joke right? Super Congress?
Seriously. What the fuck?!?!?Trakdown said:Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ.
I know Obama already took the 14th amendment off of the table, but if this the alternative he better put it right the fuck back on.
Fucking Super-Congress. Fuck off.
Legislation approved by the Super Congress -- which some on Capitol Hill are calling the "super committee" -- would then be fast-tracked through both chambers, where it couldn't be amended by simple, regular lawmakers, who'd have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process.
Just hope they don't release Ultimate Congress and leave out Mega Man. We're all doomed then.ThisWreckage said:Super Congress? Who in the hell let Capcom near the U.S. government?
Bay Maximus said:Call me crazy, but I actually think it's a good idea.
Atilac said:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
This is a joke right? Super Congress?
Considering he doesn't even have an opponent yet, this doesn't mean a lot. When you look at how they break the polling down, he is, as the article said, most certainly not setting the world on fire. Casey's a shitty campaigner and everyone in the state (left, right and center) knows it, not to mention he's done fuck all for his entire first term as Senator. 2012 will not be like 2006; Casey will actually have to try and won't be going up against a douche like Santorum.RustyNails said:
ARE YOU IN DENIAL?PantherLotus said:I'm predicting huge democratic gains as well. Not super-majorities or anything, but the tea party will be a one-election fad, or a 1.5 election fad after they waste their votes on someone not named Romney.
there's a huge vocal backlash against the GOP.Diablos said:ARE YOU IN DENIAL?
At best they'd get marginal gains. AT BEST. They are not taking back the House, they may win some seats back but not enough to get a majority or anywhere close. The Senate isn't even a toss-up. Democrats have to defend way too many seats and their majority today is slim.
People aren't going to sit at home just because the Tea Party failed them; there's' a huge group of people who have been waiting since the second Obama took office to cast a vote against him, denying him a second term. 2012 is going to be insane.,
If a great deal of the Democratic base is being as dismissive about the potential GOP ubervictory in Congress and even the WH as people are in this thread, that's really scary.
Diablos said:ARE YOU IN DENIAL?
At best they'd get marginal gains. AT BEST. They are not taking back the House, they may win some seats back but not enough to get a majority or anywhere close. The Senate isn't even a toss-up. Democrats have to defend way too many seats and their majority today is slim.
People aren't going to sit at home just because the Tea Party failed them; there's' a huge group of people who have been waiting since the second Obama took office to cast a vote against him, denying him a second term. 2012 is going to be insane.,
If a great deal of the Democratic base is being as dismissive about the potential GOP ubervictory in Congress and even the WH as people are in this thread, that's really scary.
Oblivion said:*high five*
You sir, have good taste in political milfs.
At this stage of the game.... does it matter? Everyone in DC thinks the silent majority are peons. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they are actually serious.balladofwindfishes said:is the Super Congress even Constitutional?