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[gcubed]

Black shirt with white letters saying "should have voted for Hillay"

"I'm from an alternate reality, shit was worse"

 

[Chichikov]

"I'm from an alternate reality, shit was worse"

 

[XMonkey]

It's the party that believes government doesn't create sustainable jobs. Are you dense or just not paying attention? I'm sorry if that is rude, but it's their credo that they repeat ad nauseum.

So Boehner's call for the GOP to have a "laser-like focus on jobs" was... what exactly?

 

[mckmas8808]

August 2nd is the deadline, no?

I don't know if anybody responded to this, but after August 2nd if we don't raise the debt ceiling it doesn't mean we default. It just means we are going to hell in a hand basket. We will still pay our debts and the interest on that debt.

 

[RustyNails]

I love how Chris Wallace today was trying to hammer home the point that the democrats had not put forth any plan at all.

 

[speculawyer]

Three off-shore drilling bills have been passed which promised to create a million new jobs and nearly a billion dollars in new revenue.

Let's increase our reliance on a rapidly depleting finite resource which we already import nearly 2/3s of. What a great plan for the future!

Let's work hard to make ourselves even more dependent on oil by subsidizing the even faster exploitation of the tiny amount of oil we have left.


So amazingly short-sighted. But of course they are so short-sighted that they cannot see the problem with it. That plan will actually make things WORSE. At best there would be a tiny near-term gain followed by many years of the situation being worse.

FFS . . . the USA hit peak oil in 1970! 1970!!! Are they really that dense to believe it is a growth biz for us?

 

[The Chosen One]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html

The proposal "meets Republicans' two major criteria," Reid said in a statement. It includes enough spending cuts to meet or exceed the amount of a debt ceiling raise through the end of 2012, and it doesn't includes any of the new revenues Democrats have been pushing for.

Pelosi embraced Reid's proposal in a statement after their meeting.

"I applaud Senator Reid for putting forward an approach to reduce the deficit that protects Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries," she said.

Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

 

[Oblivion]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html





Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

Steve Benen says Reid's hoping the cuts come from ending the two wars.

 

[polyh3dron]

oh fuck off harry.

 

[jamesinclair]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html

Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

Fortunately, there are 60 coffee party members that wont sign onto anything that doesnt include revenue.

Right?

RIGHT?

 

[mckmas8808]

That's ridiculous. Whoever won was going to pass a stimulus. It probably wouldn't look too different from Obama's, and would have been as ineffective in the long term.

The Bin Laden mission started before Obama became president, there's a chance he would have been found by McCain as well.

You crazy as hell. You sound like a guy that has no freaking clue what has happened in politics, yet I know you do because you have been here in Poligaf for years making good post.

There's no freaking way McCain would have passed a stimulus bill that was $800 Billion, with over $550 billion in new spending. It wouldn't have happened. Hell Obama could barely get the DEMs to sign on to that. Why would McCain ask for that kind of money when the GOP were still complaining about the $700 Billion TARP bill?

 

[polyh3dron]

You crazy as hell. You sound like a guy that has no freaking clue what has happened in politics, yet I know you do because you have been here in Poligaf for years making good post.

There's no freaking way McCain would have passed a stimulus bill that was $800 Billion, with over $550 billion in new spending. It wouldn't have happened. Hell Obama could barely get the DEMs to sign on to that. Why would McCain ask for that kind of money when the GOP were still complaining about the $700 Billion TARP bill?

the republican noise machine wouldn't be screaming about the SPENDING if McCain was behind it and since we wouldn't have had a black President the Tea Party wouldn't have cared about the spending just like they didn't care about it under Bush when he passed that ridiculously irresponsible Medicare Part D. The "Tea Party" wouldn't have even existed.

 

[Clevinger]

ugh...

Did they at least not cut SS, Medicaid, and Medicare?

 

[TacticalFox88]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html





Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

And now everything goes straight to hell.

 

[jamesinclair]

Asia and europe stocks are all down.

Thanks GOP.

 

[Wall]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html





Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

Its probably the best deal the Democrats are going to be able to get unless they want to risk failing to raise the debt ceiling before August 2nd and the all the risk to the economy that entails.

Also, which would be better, a bill with only cuts that hopefully mostly comes from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or a deal with revenues that also includes cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?

Hopefully, since the Democrats are the ones writing this bill (their votes will probably still be needed to pass it if there are enough tea partiers that won't vote to rise the debt ceiling under any circumstances), it will be as friendly to progressive interests as possible.

 

[ToxicAdam]

After the debacle of fail amd squander that was 2006-2010 .. how are Reid and Pelosi still major mouthpieces for the Democrats?

 

[GaimeGuy]

After the debacle of fail amd squander that was 2006-2010 .. how are Reid and Pelosi still major mouthpieces for the Democrats?

Pelosi isn't the problem.

 

[Diablos]

She's only one of the best Speakers in the past few decades.

The Senate made her look like a facade, but regardless, she was so boss.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I just hope they do not bargain away their leverage on the Bush tax cuts. Taxes are the only thing the GOP care about. They are going to need that in 2012 if they want to get anything done. Plus even if the debt ceiling is raised, we get to do this whole song and dance again for the 2012 budget that starts in October.

 

[mckmas8808]

the republican noise machine wouldn't be screaming about the SPENDING if McCain was behind it and since we wouldn't have had a black President the Tea Party wouldn't have cared about the spending just like they didn't care about it under Bush when he passed that ridiculously irresponsible Medicare Part D. The "Tea Party" wouldn't have even existed.

Poly you are forgetting or not giving the republican voters enough credit. One reason why there even is a Tea Party is because they hated the way Bush spent our tax dollars.

The Bailout aka TARP is what pissed the tea party off and they wouldn't have allowed McCain to come up with $550 Billion in new spending.

 

[_Xenon_]

Its probably the best deal the Democrats are going to be able to get unless they want to risk failing to raise the debt ceiling before August 2nd and the all the risk to the economy that entails.

Also, which would be better, a bill with only cuts that hopefully mostly comes from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or a deal with revenues that also includes cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?

Hopefully, since the Democrats are the ones writing this bill (their votes will probably still be needed to pass it if there are enough tea partiers that won't vote to rise the debt ceiling under any circumstances), it will be as friendly to progressive interests as possible.

Combine this and what Ms Clinton has been doing in Asia right now I think your government is gonna leave Iraq and Afghanistan and move your troops into SE Asia (which is cheaper) instead, and that is your spending cuts ...

 

[Oblivion]

Poly you are forgetting or not giving the republican voters enough credit. One reason why there even is a Tea Party is because they hated the way Bush spent our tax dollars.

The Bailout aka TARP is what pissed the tea party off and they wouldn't have allowed McCain to come up with $550 Billion in new spending.

What the hell? :lol

And here you're insulting PD for supposedly not knowing any better, when he should.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Steve Benen says Reid's hoping the cuts come from ending the two wars.

The republicans don't view those as cuts, so this is more game playing. Regardless it sounds like dems are about to cave. This is utterly pathetic, and sets quite a precedent.

And with respect to the Bush tax cuts, anyone who thinks Obama will let them expire is dreaming. He has shown absolutely no sign of having what it takes to make such a decision; to let the high income taxes expire he'd have to let the low income ones expire, which would break his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000.

 

[mckmas8808]

What the hell? :lol

And here you're insulting PD for supposedly not knowing any better, when he should.

So you really believe that the tea party wouldn't have mind if McCain had won and want a stimulus bill that cost say $650 Billion over 2 years time?

 

[Oblivion]

So you really believe that the tea party wouldn't have mind if McCain had won and want a stimulus bill that cost say $650 Billion over 2 years time?

Hell no!

Dude, these are the same dipshits who are sooooo angry at Wall Street that they want to make sure they're as unfettered in terms of regulation as possible.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So you really believe that the tea party wouldn't have mind if McCain had won and want a stimulus bill that cost say $650 Billion over 2 years time?

There would be no tea party if McCain was president. Nearly every economist has said a stimulus was needed, he would have passed one as president. Republicans were pissed about TARP and would not have liked a republican stimulus, but ultimately would trust McCain/republicans to implement it.

Regardless of which democrat won in 08, there would be a tea party type backlash. It was the GOP's remake process, something they do every time they lose.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hell no!

Dude, these are the same dipshits who are sooooo angry at Wall Street that they want to make sure they're as unfettered in terms of regulation as possible.

There's a difference between Wall Street regulation and spending money on the poor and middle class. We should all understand this by now. What incentive would the GOP have to give McCain north of $500 in spending money to spend on healthcare, jobless benefits, and infrastructure?

There would be no tea party if McCain was president. Nearly every economist has said a stimulus was needed, he would have passed one as president. Republicans were pissed about TARP and would not have liked a republican stimulus, but ultimately would trust McCain/republicans to implement it.

Regardless of which democrat won in 08, there would be a tea party type backlash. It was the GOP's remake process, something they do every time they lose.

Yeah but when did the GOP listen to every economist? And implement what stimulus? One with 80% tax cuts and 20% spending with the top number not going north of $500 Billion? Or one that resembles the one that the DEMs and Obama actually got through?

 

[gcubed]

The republicans don't view those as cuts, so this is more game playing. Regardless it sounds like dems are about to cave. This is utterly pathetic, and sets quite a precedent.

And with respect to the Bush tax cuts, anyone who thinks Obama will let them expire is dreaming. He has shown absolutely no sign of having what it takes to make such a decision; to let the high income taxes expire he'd have to let the low income ones expire, which would break his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000.

He would be re-elected at that point, promises hold much less value then. Not that I think he'd do it even then

 

[Averon]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html





Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

No new revenue increases, no cuts to defense. These "plans" are worthless.

 

[eznark]

So what did I miss this weekend as I was busy with cocktail parties and raccoon murder?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html

Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

This can't be reality.

 

[GregLombardi]

No new revenue increases, no cuts to defense. These "plans" are worthless.

I'm not a regular poli-gaf member, but am I to understand that the dems are going to back down on higher taxes?

If you look at the finances of this country, it is alarmingly evident that higher taxes are absolutely required for a period of years (FOR EVERYONE) in order to reduce our unfunded liabilities, deficit, national debt etc. If we don't start now, then when? After the next election cycle? When things are worse and the numbers have spiraled further?

If I'm understanding the situation properly, then as an Independent I want every single representative and senator removed from office next election cycle. And I can guarantee you that a lot of other people in the independent camp are feeling the same way. Politics has become a farce grounded about 500 light years from reality. I don't care about reelection cycles, I don't care that people want to get Obama reelected (though I do believe he should be). I care about rational thought stopping the financial bleeding and wasting away of the United States of America.

Unless something changes my mind I'll be using my vote to get everyone the f out of office, and urging others to do the same. Let's see them plan for reelection cycles when the only sure thing is that no one is guaranteed a job when a reelection cycle comes up.

 

[Plinko]

This can't be reality.

Have you been paying attention to the democratic leadership over the past 5 years? This is absolutely reality.

Reid needs to leave before they actually grow some balls.

 

[Averon]

What's going to happen when, after these cuts, the deficit still goes up? More program cuts? More tax cuts? I think we're stupid/crazy enough to do just that. I think we're going to have to really hit rock bottom before anyone in Washington is serious about tax increases, closing loop holes, and defense cuts.

 

[ChoklitReign]

So the Dem "Cave-in" is complete.

Reid Pitches Final Deficit Deal Without Revenues
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/24/reid-pitches-final-deficit-_n_908221.html

Ladies and gentlemen your spineless Democratic party.

If it's the only tactic to avoid default, so be it. I just hope Americans elect more Democrats in the House and Senate this year to bring back a weak supermajority. Then Bam can focus again on job creation and show a little optimism.

 

[A Human Becoming]

ugh...

Did they at least not cut SS, Medicaid, and Medicare?

Those are safe, for now.

 

[Evlar]

Reid's proposal, judging only on the sketchy details we know so far, is better than what Obama has been offering simply because it leaves our commitments to Medicare, Medicaid, and SS alone. My judgment on this, of course, is dependent on learning what he IS cutting...

Don't mistake me, all of the plans being considered are terrible ideas. Deficit reduction is a mistake in the context of a hobbled recovery and a soft jobs market. We ought to be spending more (and smarter), not less. Taxes need to be raised but only on revenue flows that are least likely to impact the recovery. The entire discussion is destructive... But if we have to do it to appease the know-nothing contingent, limit as much as possible the damage to our institutions and the harm to the least secure.

 

[GregLombardi]

Reid's proposal, judging only on the sketchy details we know so far, is better than what Obama has been offering simply because it leaves our commitments to Medicare, Medicaid, and SS alone. My judgment on this, of course, is dependent on learning what he IS cutting...

Don't mistake me, all of the plans being considered are terrible ideas. Deficit reduction is a mistake in the context of a hobbled recovery and a soft jobs market. We ought to be spending more (and smarter), not less. Taxes need to be raised but only on revenue flows that are least likely to impact the recovery. The entire discussion is destructive... But if we have to do it to appease the know-nothing contingent, limit as much as possible the damage to our institutions and the harm to the least secure.

How can you possibly argue that recovery is more important than long term changes to the essential structure of this country's system of interaction between government and economy?

Short term band-aids do not cure long term problems.

 

[mckmas8808]

If it's the only tactic to avoid default, so be it. I just hope Americans elect more Democrats in the House and Senate this year to bring back a weak supermajority. Then Bam can focus again on job creation and show a little optimism.

Man that's crazy. If they pass this no revenues bill, why would the voters want more DEMs? It'll be a total GOP victory and many progressives would probably not feel like voting in 2012. And to some degree I would understand.

I mean how can you not pass a bill with revenue increases when the public is fully behind it?

 

[Evlar]

How can you possibly argue that recovery is more important than long term changes to the essential structure of this country's system of interaction between government and economy?

Short term band-aids do not cure long term problems.

The damages done by extended recession or a jobless recovery are not "short term". It's eating away at our future; the long-term unemployed are suffering permanent downward shifts in their lifetime earnings, children's development is put at risk, communities are decimated. It's simply astounding how willing people are to take the recession so lightly.

Informing me there may be an earthquake sometime in the next decade is important, and I agree we should do something about it... but in the meantime my house is on fire right now. Excuse me while I deal with the "short term" raging inferno first.

 

[Averon]

Man that's crazy. If they pass this no revenues bill, why would the voters want more DEMs? It'll be a total GOP victory and many progressives would probably not feel like voting in 2012. And to some degree I would understand.

I mean how can you not pass a bill with revenue increases when the public is fully behind it?

If the GOP wins it all on 2012, it will be 2000-2006 times 10. I'm beginning to think maybe that is what needed at this point.

 

[Manmademan]

I mean how can you not pass a bill with revenue increases when the public is fully behind it?

because the party in control of the house doesn't care what the public wants, only what the vocal minority that votes for them in primaries wants.

 

[eznark]

I mean how can you not pass a bill with revenue increases when the public is fully behind it?

lol, the public is also "fully behind" not raising the debt ceiling. With both, once you get into specifics "what the public wants" becomes a lot murkier. I doubt there is frothing demand amongst the plebes to eliminate the mortgage credit, for instance.

 

[A Human Becoming]

lol, the public is also "fully behind" not raising the debt ceiling.

It's actually split in half. When offered a choice, 40 percent of adults say they consider it "absolutely essential to raise the federal debt limit by August 2 to avoid an economic crisis," while 39 percent say the country can go past the August 2 debt limit deadline "without major economic problems."

 

[eznark]

It's actually split in half. When offered a choice, 40 percent of adults say they consider it "absolutely essential to raise the federal debt limit by August 2 to avoid an economic crisis," while 39 percent say the country can go past the August 2 debt limit deadline "without major economic problems."

Or it isn't.....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148454/debt-ceiling-increase-remains-unpopular-americans.aspx

Fun with polling!

 

[A Human Becoming]

Or it isn't.....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148454/debt-ceiling-increase-remains-unpopular-americans.aspx

Fun with polling!

Still, I wouldn't say 42% is the public being "fully behind" not raising the debt ceiling.

 

[mckmas8808]

lol, the public is also "fully behind" not raising the debt ceiling. With both, once you get into specifics "what the public wants" becomes a lot murkier. I doubt there is frothing demand amongst the plebes to eliminate the mortgage credit, for instance.

They aren't "fully behind" not raising the debt ceiling. The last I looked it was close to half and half.

Fake editz: I see you guys already covered this.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

God damn I've seen squids with more spine than the Dems.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

It should not matter if 100% of Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling--most children object to eating their peas. They still have to do it.

I wonder if we would have to deal with less of this stupidity if we stopped directly electing senators--why did we start?

Sidebar: I've gone to posting fully from my work computer, and it is a miserable change. Internet explorer is holding me back.