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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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Gonaria said:
Did I say they were? All I am talking about is debt and how its pretty ridiculous to expect a teacher who has a butt load of college debt to live on 30k a year. And since when were we talking about the cheapest way to attend college and not averages? Averages are what we should be talking about and I would bet that that the average college costs is a lot closer to 100k than the 40-60k that you seem to think

Again, if you attend a private school and live out on your own, take 5 years then yea. If you attend a community college first and then a state school, no. Community colleges are available to everybody. Just because many choose not to take advantage of them doesn't mean the option shouldn't be taken into consideration.

I attended a state school and graduated with a double major. I payed probably 10k a year for tuition. Grad school was a hell of a lot more but bachelors? No.
 

Wall

Member
harSon said:
And? My tuition is on the high end at $11,000 a year (UC Santa Cruz), and considering it's Santa Cruz, the cost of living is also ridiculously high.

Assuming I went here for the full four years ($44,000), factor in the freshman requirement of staying in the dorms (~$12,000 for the school year), factor in the remaining 3 years of off-campus living (My rent is ~$600 per month for a room), books for the four years ($1-2,000 per school year) and food.

44,000 + 13,000 + 14,400 + 4-8,000 = $74-78,000 + whatever food costs you across three years (dorms force you to get a meal plan) which is still going to result in a figure significantly lower than $100,000. And my figures are on the high end of the spectrum. This is also assuming you're not working, receiving scholarships or grants, etc. The majority of bachelors degrees cost MUCH less than $100,000, even with today's high tuition rates.

That is still a lot of money. Especially to take out as a loan. Especially with no guarantee of a future income level in order to repay the debt.

The answer, I think, lies in the fact that our current system of using unlimited loan money to finance higher education is stupid. All it does is lead to ever increasing costs since the market mechanism is insufficient to keep prices from rising far above the rate of inflation.

As far as how that relates to teachers, the increasing cost of higher education does contribute to their salaries increasing, especially in good economic times when people with college degrees are able to find more lucrative areas to work in order to repay their debts.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
I really wish this site would allow you to search threads. I hate spending 30 minutes trying to find the graphs and posts that responded to this WSJ editorial:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704738404575347302831199046.html
President Obama and congressional Democrats are blaming their trillion-dollar budget deficits on the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. Letting these tax cuts expire is their answer. Yet the data flatly contradict this "tax cuts caused the deficits" narrative. Consider the three most persistent myths:

• The Bush tax cuts wiped out last decade's budget surpluses. Sen. John Kerry (D., Mass.), for example, has long blamed the tax cuts for having "taken a $5.6 trillion surplus and turned it into deficits as far as the eye can see." That $5.6 trillion surplus never existed. It was a projection by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) in January 2001 to cover the next decade. It assumed that late-1990s economic growth and the stock-market bubble (which had already peaked) would continue forever and generate record-high tax revenues. It assumed no recessions, no terrorist attacks, no wars, no natural disasters, and that all discretionary spending would fall to 1930s levels.

The projected $5.6 trillion surplus between 2002 and 2011 will more likely be a $6.1 trillion deficit through September 2011. So what was the cause of this dizzying, $11.7 trillion swing? I've analyzed CBO's 28 subsequent budget baseline updates since January 2001. These updates reveal that the much-maligned Bush tax cuts, at $1.7 trillion, caused just 14% of the swing from projected surpluses to actual deficits (and that is according to a "static" analysis, excluding any revenues recovered from faster economic growth induced by the cuts).

The bulk of the swing resulted from economic and technical revisions (33%), other new spending (32%), net interest on the debt (12%), the 2009 stimulus (6%) and other tax cuts (3%). Specifically, the tax cuts for those earning more than $250,000 are responsible for just 4% of the swing. If there were no Bush tax cuts, runaway spending and economic factors would have guaranteed more than $4 trillion in deficits over the decade and kept the budget in deficit every year except 2007.

The next decade's deficits are the result of the previous administration's profligacy. Mr. Obama asserted in his January State of the Union Address that by the time he took office, "we had a one-year deficit of over $1 trillion and projected deficits of $8 trillion over the next decade. Most of this was the result of not paying for two wars, two tax cuts, and an expensive prescription drug program."

In short, it's all President Bush's fault. But Mr. Obama's assertion fails on three grounds.

First, the wars, tax cuts and the prescription drug program were implemented in the early 2000s, yet by 2007 the deficit stood at only $161 billion. How could these stable policies have suddenly caused trillion-dollar deficits beginning in 2009?

Second, the president's $8 trillion figure minimizes the problem. Recent CBO data indicate a 10-year baseline deficit closer to $13 trillion if Washington maintains today's tax-and-spend policies—whereby discretionary spending grows with the economy, war spending winds down, ObamaCare is implemented, and Congress extends all the Bush tax cuts, the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) patch, and the Medicare "doc fix" (i.e., no reimbursement cuts).

Under this realistic baseline, the 10-year cost of extending the Bush tax cuts ($3.2 trillion), the Medicare drug entitlement ($1 trillion), and Iraq and Afghanistan spending ($515 billion) add up to $4.7 trillion. That's approximately one-third of the $13 trillion in baseline deficits—far from the majority the president claims.

Third and most importantly, the White House methodology is arbitrary. With Washington set to tax $33 trillion and spend $46 trillion over the next decade, how does one determine which policies "caused" the $13 trillion deficit? Mr. Obama could have just as easily singled out Social Security ($9.2 trillion over 10 years), antipoverty programs ($7 trillion), other Medicare spending ($5.4 trillion), net interest on the debt ($6.1 trillion), or nondefense discretionary spending ($7.5 trillion).

I know its out there, I read it, but in a 100 page thread its almost impossible to weed through to find it though. My dad sent me it to get my "thoughts."
 

gkryhewy

Member
Plinko said:
I'm going to be pushing this with all of my children.
Not directly related to your post, but it kind of amuses me when young parents begin to aggressively save for their childrens' college educations. The current higher ed cost structure is so FUBAR that something is bound to give pretty severely in the next decade or so. Saving for 15 years as a young family because 'if we don't have 300 grand saved up by the time Bobby goes to college, he'll never be able to compete for the shitty entry level marketing job he dreams about!' -- it just smacks of the housing bubble (if you don't buy now, you'll never be able to!)

Another problem is that in addition to costing way too much, many undergrad degrees are functionally useless.
 

besada

Banned
My tuition and dorm/food costs were $4000 a year. Books per semester were less than $500. And we thought that was too expensive. The inflation of college costs is a crime against young people. The destruction of public schools is another crime against the young. But young people don't vote, so no one will be made to pay.

I'm glad I'm not young anymore.
gkryhewy said:
Not directly related to your post, but it kind of amuses me when young parents begin to aggressively save for their childrens' college educations.
Texas used to allow parents to lock in current costs for future tuition. Of course, the fund is no longer accepting applicants, because it became clear that if it continued that thing would collapse under the rapidly rising costs. Frankly, I think these funds should be mandatory in every state. It creates an incentive at the state level to keep down the costs at state schools.
 

harSon

Banned
Gonaria said:
Congrats, see above. And no, lots and lots of people do not attend public universities or go to out of state schools. And if you want to know, I actually did attend a state school, but like I said, I am trying to deal in averages, not the cheapest way to attend college

Even with averages, 1 in 3 college students transfer and if the UC system is indicative of the rest of the country, there are more students attending Public Universities than there are in Private Universities. So I'd wager the average is a lot lower than you're expecting it to be.
 
Nobody is denying that the cost of education is way too expensive (its robbery) but I believe its important to be accurate in what we say here which is why Jarson and I challenged your point Gonaria.
 

Piecake

Member
harSon said:
Even with averages, 1 in 3 college students transfer and if the UC system is indicative of the rest of the country, there are more students attending Public Universities than there are in Private Universities. So I'd wager the average is a lot lower than you're expecting it to be.

So what if 1 in 3 college students transfer. The article doesnt say what college they are transfering from and to so its pretty much worthless to our argument.

As for more people attending public than Private, that really doesnt surprise me, but it is not above 50%.

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html

says that 47% of college students attend public 4 year

LovingSteam said:
Nobody is denying that the cost of education is way too expensive (its robbery) but I believe its important to be accurate in what we say here which is why Jarson and I challenged your point Gonaria.

Again, I am not arguing that there are cheaper ways of attending college, but a lot of students go to out of state schools or attend private universities and that costs A LOT of money.
 

quaere

Member
gkryhewy said:
Not directly related to your post, but it kind of amuses me when young parents begin to aggressively save for their childrens' college educations. The current higher ed cost structure is so FUBAR that something is bound to give pretty severely in the next decade or so. Saving for 15 years as a young family because 'if we don't have 300 grand saved up by the time Bobby goes to college, he'll never be able to compete for the shitty entry level marketing job he dreams about!' -- it just smacks of the housing bubble (if you don't buy now, you'll never be able to!)

Another problem is that in addition to costing way too much, many undergrad degrees are functionally useless.
What's even more amusing is how many of these college funds end up going toward utterly mediocre private schools. Hey parents, if Bobby hadn't been such a worthless moron in high school he'd have a full scholarship to your neighborhood private "liberal arts" college. But that would require parenting. Much easier to save 300k so Bobby can continue his life of obliviousness for a few more years until the job market smacks him.
 
By all accounts, it looks like a deal is about to be announced in which the debt ceiling is hiked in exchange for the promise of major spending cuts, including to entitlements, totaling at least $2.4 trillion.

Anything can happen, but it appears the GOP is on the verge of pulling off a political victory that may be unprecedented in American history. Republicans may succeed in using the threat of a potential outcome that they themselves acknowledged would lead to national catastrophe as leverage to extract enormous concessions from Democrats, without giving up anything of any significance in return.

Not only that, but Republicans — in perhaps the most remarkable example of political up-is-downism in recent memory — cast their willingness to dangle the threat of national crisis as a brave and heroic effort they’d undertaken on behalf of the national interest. Only the threat of national crisis could force the immediate spending cuts supposedly necessary to prevent a far more epic crisis later.

Under the emerging deal, President Obama can hike the debt limit in two stages — the first in exchange for equivalent cuts; the second after a Congressional committee comes up with second round of yet more cuts, including to entitlements. The talks appear close to resolving the spending cut“trigger” that would force the committee to act — without giving the GOP an incentive to deliberately sabotage its work. The remaining question is how to get it through the House. But a deal seems immiment.

Again and again, Dems drew lines in the sand that they promptly erased as the threat of default grew. A clean debt ceiling hike? Dropped. Cuts to Medicare benefits? They’ll likely be in that committee’s crosshairs. The insistence on revenue hikes? Withdrawn.

What make this all the more remarkable is that throughout this process, Republicans themselves conceded not just that a debt ceiling hike would be disastrous for America, but also that it was inevitable. Yet they were still able use the threat of default as leverage. How?

The simple answer: Dems weren’t prepared to allow default — no matter what. Republicans, by contrast, treated the debt ceiling hike as a necessity, but one that had to happen on their terms. In a remarkable act of political cynicism, they recast the debt ceiling hike itself as a GOP concession — even though they had already agreed it had to happen to avert an epic national crisis. And Dems made this possible by accepting the dynamics of the situation as Republicans defined it. Whether there was another alternative for Dems is another question.

If Dems had refused to budge from the demand for a clean hike, would Republicans have blinked — or would they have allowed default? The bottom line is Dems weren’t prepared to take that risk, and the fast-approaching dealing meant moving to negotiations was imperative. Should Obama have waged a far more aggressive P.R. campaign to saddle the GOP with potential blame for default? Maybe, but public opinion in recent days was running strongly for compromise and against Republicans — and they still continued to use the threat of default as leverage. Could Dems have had more success with a more aggressive approach? We’ll never know. Call it the road not taken.

The road that was taken is leading to a deal in which Dems are agreeing to take huge amounts of money out of the economy when the recovery is shaky at best. It also seems to ensure that Dems will agree to entitlements cuts heading into an election where the GOP was supposed to be deeply vulnerable over their drive to end Medicare as we know it. Dems will promise to salvage victory in the form of “smart” entitlement reform. Maybe so. For now, it appears the GOP is on the verge of a huge and unprecedented victory.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tical-victory/2011/03/03/gIQA3l8WlI_blog.html

TPM is saying progressive groups are going crazy over this. Personally this is the last straw for me. I don't see how any democrat or liberal can support or give money to Obama's campaign after this pathetic display of cowardice. I'm not saying people should stay home next November - I'm voting and so should you. But Obama can raise his billion dollars without a cent from me.

This is just the type of situation Clinton would have handled better, having experience with this bullshit. I'm not saying Bill's deals were perfect, but I can't think of a single political deal worse than this off the top of my head. I cannot help but think this goes beyond politics - Obama must think something here is good policy. I don't see a single thing here that benefits democrats (or the middle class).

Obama's talking point for the last 3 years has been "well, it could have been a lot worse." This is pathetic.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
^ damn you, pd!

Greg Sargent said:
By all accounts, it looks like a deal is about to be announced in which the debt ceiling is hiked in exchange for the promise of major spending cuts, including to entitlements, totaling at least $2.4 trillion.

Anything can happen, but it apppears the GOP is on the verge of pulling off a political victory that may be unprecedented in American history. Republicans may succeed in using the threat of a potential outcome that they themselves acknowledged would lead to national catastrophe as leverage to extract enormous concessions from Democrats, without giving up anything of any significance in return.

Not only that, but Republicans — in perhaps the most remarkable example of political up-is-downism in recent memory — cast their willingness to dangle the threat of national crisis as a brave and heroic effort they’d undertaken on behalf of the national interest. Only the threat of national crisis could force the immediate spending cuts supposedly necessary to prevent a far more epic crisis later.

This is fucking criminal. What the fuck, America?
 

eznark

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tical-victory/2011/03/03/gIQA3l8WlI_blog.html

TPM is saying progressive groups are going crazy over this. Personally this is the last straw for me. I don't see how any democrat or liberal can support or give money to Obama's campaign after this pathetic display of cowardice. I'm not saying people should stay home next November - I'm voting and so should you. But Obama can raise his billion dollars without a cent from me.

This is just the type of situation Clinton would have handled better, having experience with this bullshit. I'm not saying Bill's deals were perfect, but I can't think of a single political deal worse than this off the top of my head. I cannot help but think this goes beyond politics - Obama must think something here is good policy. I don't see a single thing here that benefits democrats (or the middle class).

Obama's talking point for the last 3 years has been "well, it could have been a lot worse." This is pathetic.

http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=13&parentid=5&sectiontree=5,13&itemid=1063

How long until the progressives split from the traditional Democrats? Is this the death of the Democratic Party? Secession imminent?
 

SomeDude

Banned
LovingSteam said:
SCREW YOU NARK!! Quit using the idiot signal!


I have and honest question. WHy do so many people on neogaf go crazy when I mention secession? There are tons of secession movements across the US. Why not peacefully go our own ways. What's the problem?


There's evena big secession movement for quebec to leave canada.
 

eznark

Banned
SomeDude said:
I have and honest question. WHy do so many people on neogaf go crazy when I mention secession? There are tons of secession movements across the US. Why not peacefully go our own ways. What's the problem?


There's evena big secession movement for quebec to leave canada.

My friend, you need to head up to Winneconne, WI. I believe they are the last territory to secede from these United States, and all because of a cartography error!

The now infamous story of Winneconne's sovereignty – hence the creation of Sovereign State Days – finds its start in 1967. In that year, Wisconsin mapmakers carelessly left the village off the new state highway map. C.O. Rogers, then publisher of The Winneconne News, became aware of the situation from a salesman attempting to locate his offices in Winneconne, "There’s just a dot between Butte des Morts and Omro," he said. "The map-makers were napping when they should have been mapping!" commented Rogers. That innocent remark began the whole crazy, much discussed, thoroughly enjoyed, and endlessly celebrated secession of Winneconne from the great state of Wisconsin.

They celebrate it every year and it is an absolute blast.

http://www.winneconne.org/files/4sovstate.htm
 
SomeDude said:
I have and honest question. WHy do so many people on neogaf go crazy when I mention secession? There are tons of secession movements across the US. Why not peacefully go our own ways. What's the problem?


There's evena big secession movement for quebec to leave canada.

Because you're obsessed with it. It's the only thing you EVER mention. You don't even discuss it, you do hit and runs with idiocy. You do pop ups. You have proven you're incapable of actual debate. You've displayed such ridiculousness over the last few years that you've used up the 'I'm serious' card and now your name is symbolic with as much hilarity as Michelle Bachman. You've portrayed yourself as someone who has as much racial reasoning for your obsession as gullibility. Truly, its impossible to take you serious.

WHACK%20A%20MOLE%20HOUSTON.JPG
 

SomeDude

Banned
eznark said:
My friend, you need to head up to Winneconne, WI. I believe they are the last territory to secede from these United States, and all because of a cartography error!



They celebrate it every year and it is an absolute blast.

http://www.winneconne.org/files/4sovstate.htm


Yes, but so many people take offense when I mention secession (US was born out of secession) or that obama is collapsing along with the potiical center (it is). People shout I should be banned.
 

eznark

Banned
SomeDude said:
Yes, but so many people take offense when I mention secession (US was born out of secession) or that obama is collapsing along with the potiical center (it is). People shout I should be banned.

I think they should that you should be banned because you posit questions without engaging in discussions more than anything. It's annoying and spammy.
 

SomeDude

Banned
eznark said:
I think they should that you should be banned because you posit questions without engaging in discussions more than anything. It's annoying and spammy.


What? I've posted movements and posted the benifits. Why should oregon and washington be connected to louisana or alabama? We have nothing in common.
 

Averon

Member
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...cit-reduction-deal-now-comes-the-selling.html

Negotiating All But Done for $2.7 Trillion Deficit Reduction Deal ... Now Comes the Selling
Two items still being negotiated:

1) The exact ratio of Pentagon to non-Pentagon cuts in the trigger – Democrats want 50% from the Pentagon, Republicans want less;

2) Democrats want to exempt programs for the poor from the cuts.

Also Democrats say –- if tax reform doesn’t happen through the super-committee, President Obama will veto any extension of Bush tax cuts when they come up at the end of 2012, further creating an incentive for the super-committee to act.
 
SomeDude said:
What? I've posted movements and posted the benifits. Why should oregon and washington be connected to louisana or alabama? We have nothing in common.

And Nintendo started out as a trading card company, doesn't mean they're giving up on video games any time soon.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tical-victory/2011/03/03/gIQA3l8WlI_blog.html

TPM is saying progressive groups are going crazy over this. Personally this is the last straw for me. I don't see how any democrat or liberal can support or give money to Obama's campaign after this pathetic display of cowardice. I'm not saying people should stay home next November - I'm voting and so should you. But Obama can raise his billion dollars without a cent from me.

This is just the type of situation Clinton would have handled better, having experience with this bullshit. I'm not saying Bill's deals were perfect, but I can't think of a single political deal worse than this off the top of my head. I cannot help but think this goes beyond politics - Obama must think something here is good policy. I don't see a single thing here that benefits democrats (or the middle class).

Obama's talking point for the last 3 years has been "well, it could have been a lot worse." This is pathetic.


Heres the catch, dont support Obama and the alternative is Romney or god forbid a Bachman type.

Its a rock and a hard place. The guy that doesnt have a spine but occasionally does some things that arent reprehensible and possibly even good. Or stick it out for 4-8 years with a guy/girl who most definitely will assrape this country with entitlement cuts, idiotic foreign policy that eclipses any Libya stuff Obama may do and adherence to a politically insane fringe group. All because you wanted to protest the incumbant in the minor hope that the party he represents will somehow decide that the reason they lost isnt because they didnt appeal to the moderates but because they needed to go further left.

And to be frank, I almost fear a country like ours becoming fractured into two extreme camps of left and right that just get more and more entrenched and uncompromising. I'm not defending the push-over nature of todays democrats(far from it). I know its an eye-rolling comparison but that sort of one extrem versus the other extreme political environment is what ends up breeding fascism and extreme leftism the way much of Europe saw after WWI. Political parties became more and more ran by the extreme wings and it slowly became more and more vitriolic between the camps ending in political chaos and upheaval and even violence.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Heres the catch, dont support Obama and the alternative is Romney or god forbid a Bachman type.

Its a rock and a hard place. The guy that doesnt have a spine but occasionally does some things that arent reprehensible and possibly even good. Or stick it out for 4-8 years with a guy/girl who most definitely will assrape this country with entitlement cuts, idiotic foreign policy that eclipses any Libya stuff Obama may do and adherence to a politically insane fringe group. All because you wanted to protest the incumbant in the minor hope that the party he represents will somehow decide that the reason they lost isnt because they didnt appeal to the moderates but because they needed to go further left.

And to be frank, I almost fear a country like ours becoming fractured into two extreme camps of left and right that just get more and more entrenched and uncompromising. I know its an eye-rolling comparison but that political environment is what ends up breeding fascism and extreme leftism the way much of Europe saw after WWI. Political parties became more and more ran by the extreme wings and it slowly became more and more vitriolic between the camps ending in political chaos and upheaval and even violence.

Stop using the idiot signal! Seriously people.
 

SomeDude

Banned
Jonm1010 said:
Heres the catch, dont support Obama and the alternative is Romney or god forbid a Bachman type.

Its a rock and a hard place. The guy that doesnt have a spine but occasionally does some things that arent reprehensible and possibly even good. Or stick it out for 4-8 years with a guy/girl who most definitely will assrape this country with entitlement cuts, idiotic foreign policy that eclipses any Libya stuff Obama may do and adherence to a politically insane fringe group. All because you wanted to protest the incumbant in the minor hope that the party he represents will somehow decide that the reason they lost isnt because they didnt appeal to the moderates but because they needed to go further left.

And to be frank, I almost fear a country like ours becoming fractured into two extreme camps of left and right that just get more and more entrenched and uncompromising. I know its an eye-rolling comparison but that political environment is what ends up breeding fascism and extreme leftism the way much of Europe saw after WWI. Political parties became more and more ran by the extreme wings and it slowly became more and more vitriolic between the camps ending in political chaos and upheaval and even violence.


Ted Rall: "America's ending" - the anti-american manifesto.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
LovingSteam said:
Stop using the idiot signal! Seriously people.

I just ignore the guy. He obviously has to be an inside joke with mods at this point. Cause his actions cant be described as anything other than trolling.
 

Puddles

Banned
I really wouldn't mind a split at this point. I really don't want to live in the same country as right-wing Americans. Just give them half of the country and let them de-regulate and de-tax their way towards becoming New Somalia. I really don't give a fuck anymore. It's a shame that most of the countries that match up with my position on the political spectrum are located way too close to the Arctic Circle.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Heres the catch, dont support Obama and the alternative is Romney or god forbid a Bachman type.

Its a rock and a hard place. The guy that doesnt have a spine but occasionally does some things that arent reprehensible and possibly even good. Or stick it out for 4-8 years with a guy/girl who most definitely will assrape this country with entitlement cuts, idiotic foreign policy that eclipses any Libya stuff Obama may do and adherence to a politically insane fringe group. All because you wanted to protest the incumbant in the minor hope that the party he represents will somehow decide that the reason they lost isnt because they didnt appeal to the moderates but because they needed to go further left.

And to be frank, I almost fear a country like ours becoming fractured into two extreme camps of left and right that just get more and more entrenched and uncompromising. I'm not defending the push-over nature of todays democrats(far from it). I know its an eye-rolling comparison but that sort of one extrem versus the other extreme political environment is what ends up breeding fascism and extreme leftism the way much of Europe saw after WWI. Political parties became more and more ran by the extreme wings and it slowly became more and more vitriolic between the camps ending in political chaos and upheaval and even violence.

What difference is there be between Obama and a divided government and Romney and a divided government? We'll get left leaning legislation regardless. I'll vote for Obama, but at this point I honestly don't care about the outcome. Romney can't kill the healthcare bill without the senate. We'll get lower taxes and more defense spending.
 

SomeDude

Banned
Averon said:
Is SomeDude a mod's joke acct? That's the only thing that makes sense at this point.



No, I'm not. and the chapter of the United States is coming to and end. http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT


What Jonm just said above is what ted rall posted. And if you actually took 5 minutes to look at http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT then you would realize what I'm saying to true. Anyone that isn't trying to make a joke of everything is in lala land.


tea party = far right that is taking over republican party

far left anarchist/socialist = taking over democrats. Obama's approval rating now at 39 percent!

The United States of America is ending. http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT
 

BigBoss

Member
Has this been posted?

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/30/planned_parenthood_terrorism/index.html

Someone firebombed a Planned Parenthood clinic in McKinney, Texas, late Tuesday night. Because it was so late, no one was hurt. The clinic doesn't provide abortions, but there had been protesters there earlier that day anyway. You might've read about the news on Twitter or on a liberal blog. Probably not in a newspaper or on a cable new channel. Definitely not at any right-wing blogs. Which is a bit odd, actually, considering how much attention terrorist attacks generally get in this country.

Oh, sorry, how much attention possible Islamic terrorist attacks get.

Planned Parenthood, in case you haven't been paying attention, has been the focus of a flood of political attacks -- both rhetorical and legislative -- since approximately the minute the Republicans who were elected in 2010 took office across the nation. James O'Keefe shopped around one of his trademark shamelessly misleading video "stings." Glenn Beck devoted an hour to falsely accusing Planned Parenthood of various heinous crimes. The major right-wing pundits have stepped up the hysterical anti-reproductive rights rhetoric as multiple states attempted to defund the organization. The right has even moved on to attacking contraception, as if it doesn't even want people to believe that its goal isn't to control women's bodies.

The National Review's the Corner has run multiple posts on some pro-life "study" accusing Planned Parenthood of "systemic, organization-wide fraud and abuse" and even human trafficking "at this federally funded billion-dollar abortion business." One of them said, "Where is the Media," and bemoaned the fact that the mainstream press was supposedly "ignoring" the report, which got a major press conference with multiple members of Congress and coverage in Politico and the Hill.

But, weirdly, this Planned Parenthood news has not been mentioned at the National Review.

It's easy to imagine that if the target of the attack had been associated with the right -- Marcus Bachmann's clinic, maybe? -- this would be a major national story, even if no one was hurt and the attacker's identity was still unknown.

It's even easier to imagine that if anyone had any reason to suspect that a Muslim did this, that it'd be not just a major national story but also the subject of congressional inquiries and maybe eventually an air war. (Even failed Islamic terrorists are treated as if they succeeded by politicians, these days.)

We obviously don't know yet, but this attack seems more likely to be the work of a politically motivated person with conservative beliefs than a random act of vandalism. In other words, domestic terrorism. Someone threw a Molotov cocktail at a women's health clinic. It's insane that only a couple of Internet feminists actually seem to care.

http://foxpoint.patch.com/articles/fire-destroys-offices-of-group-active-in-wisconsin-recall-effort

Fire officials in La Crosse are continuing to investigate a Saturday blaze that destroyed the regional offices of We Are Wisconsin, a union political action committee (PAC) that has pumped millions of dollars into supporting Democratic candidates in the upcoming recall elections.

The La Crosse Tribune reports that the cause of the fire, which started at about 9:30 a.m., remains unknown. Firefighters thought they had the blaze under control in the afternoon, however, that wasn't the case and it continued into the evening, the newspaper reported.

We Are Wisconsin used the building at 432 Jay St. to oversee its efforts in the 32nd Senate District recall election, which will be held Aug. 9. Incumbent Republican state Sen. Dan Kapanke is being challenged by Democratic state Rep. Jennifer Shilling in that district.

A spokesman for the group told the La Crosse Tribune that the group's office was a total loss.

We Are Wisconsin is a political action committee made up by a coalition of unions that has spent more than $2 million supporting Democratic recall candidates around Wisconsin, according to the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign.

In the 32nd District, the group has spent about $400,000 to get Shilling elected, the La Crosse Tribune reported.

The group is also active in the 8th Senate District recall race between incumbent Republican Alberta Darling and Democratic challenger Sandy Pasch. In that Milwaukee-area race, We Are Wisconsin has spent at least $570,000 on pro-Pasch ads.

Throughout the day Saturday, those active in the recall effort were taking to Twitter and calling the fire "suspicious" since it occurred just 10 days before the recall. However, fire officials haven't yet determined the cause of the blaze, according to local media reports.
 
SomeDude said:
No, I'm not. and the chapter of the United States is coming to and end. http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT


What Jonm just said above is what ted rall posted. And if you actually took 5 minutes to look at http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT then you would realize what I'm saying to true. Anyone that isn't tryimg to make a joke of everything is true.


tea party = far right that is taking over republican party

far left anarchist/socialist = taking over democrats. Obama's approval rating now at 39 percent!

The United States of America is ending.

lol
 

Averon

Member
PhoenixDark said:
What difference is there be between Obama and a divided government and Romney and a divided government? We'll get left leaning legislation regardless. I'll vote for Obama, but at this point I honestly don't care about the outcome. Romney can't kill the healthcare bill without the senate. We'll get lower taxes and more defense spending.


Dems are likely to lose the Senate in 2012. And Dems taking the House is a long shot at best with redistricting. An entirely GOP led government is very possible after 2012. With the teabaggers running the show, it'll be 2000-2006 times 10.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
So, let me understand: is GOP winning from this crazy shit? Even after the Tea Party hardcore shit, are they still putting Obama in a corner?

And what's doing the president? Waiting to be hammered like an idiot?
 

SomeDude

Banned
Jonm1010 said:
Heres the catch, dont support Obama and the alternative is Romney or god forbid a Bachman type.

Its a rock and a hard place. The guy that doesnt have a spine but occasionally does some things that arent reprehensible and possibly even good. Or stick it out for 4-8 years with a guy/girl who most definitely will assrape this country with entitlement cuts, idiotic foreign policy that eclipses any Libya stuff Obama may do and adherence to a politically insane fringe group. All because you wanted to protest the incumbant in the minor hope that the party he represents will somehow decide that the reason they lost isnt because they didnt appeal to the moderates but because they needed to go further left.

And to be frank, I almost fear a country like ours becoming fractured into two extreme camps of left and right that just get more and more entrenched and uncompromising. I'm not defending the push-over nature of todays democrats(far from it). I know its an eye-rolling comparison but that sort of one extrem versus the other extreme political environment is what ends up breeding fascism and extreme leftism the way much of Europe saw after WWI. Political parties became more and more ran by the extreme wings and it slowly became more and more vitriolic between the camps ending in political chaos and upheaval and even violence.


Just like to point out again everything you said was also said from ted rall: http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Also Democrats say –- if tax reform doesn’t happen through the super-committee, President Obama will veto any extension of Bush tax cuts when they come up at the end of 2012, further creating an incentive for the super-committee to act.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
 

Averon

Member
SomeDude said:
No, I'm not. and the chapter of the United States is coming to and end. http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT


What Jonm just said above is what ted rall posted. And if you actually took 5 minutes to look at http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT then you would realize what I'm saying to true. Anyone that isn't trying to make a joke of everything is in lala land.


tea party = far right that is taking over republican party

far left anarchist/socialist = taking over democrats. Obama's approval rating now at 39 percent!

The United States of America is ending. http://www.scribd.com/doc/36016527/The-Anti-American-Manifesto-Ted-Rall-EXCERPT

Thanks for the laugh.

Actually Obama went up one point in Gallup today. He's at 41%.
 
Oblivion said:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

An absolute joke.

A. There's no guarantee he can veto shit, because there's no guarantee he'll win re-election
B. Republicans get to hammer him with ads about the largest tax increase in US history
C. Republicans unlikely to lose House, so Obama would have to veto the entire tax cut, including for middle class, which he certainly won't do.
 

Puddles

Banned
If the American people have been paying attention in the slightest, there should be a wave against Republican incumbents in the 2012 election that makes the 2010 wave look like a ripple.

Instead, Republicans will probably just take the Senate and the Presidency.
 
Although there is no confirmation the House will accept these terms. The deal could easily be shitcanned by the freshmen. Then what? More capitulation?
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Gonaria said:
Well, at least now it doesnt sound like a huge gigantic turd of a bill. They better be sure to stay strong on that pentagon number and the tax reform or else this is just abysmal.

Yep

But...
 
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