cartoon_soldier
Member
Meadows said:
Everything Obama tries to do is Un-American, except well killing OBL. That's how things go. It wouldn't have mattered who is President.
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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags
- Thread starter PantherLotus
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Everything Obama tries to do is Un-American, except well killing OBL. That's how things go. It wouldn't have mattered who is President.
Well, to be more specific, it's 7.65% (for most people), and it's paid by both the employer and employee equally. The Social Security Wage Base ($106,800 for this year) also plays a factor.DasRaven said:
Employee pays:
6.2% of compensation up to the SSWB towards social security
1.45% of compensation towards medicare
Employer pays:
6.2% of compensation for each employee up to the SSWB towards social security
1.45% of compensation for each employee towards medicare.
It's worth noting that no money made above the social security wage base gets taxed for social security, so people making under $106,800 have the highest tax rates, and the total tax rate regresses for every dollar you make above that, asymptotically approaching the medicare portion of 1.45%
Self-employed individuals pay both the employee and employer portion.
BTW, for the calendar year 2011, the employee contribution rate for social security is temporarily reduced to 4.2%. Just another example of how taxes are lower than they've ever been under obama
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
polyh3dron said:
Wrong! Had Hillary won there still would have been a Tea Party. They hate the Clintons too. Stop making it all about race.
BotoxAgent
Member
LM4sure said:
Did u selectively forget the huge free ride Wall St. got when they crashed and we rewarded them with a bailout off the backs of taxpayers?
which most of them ended up pocketing for themselves
now they are at record profits--I wouldn't exectly call that success that was "earned"
if anyone that's getting a free ride, it's the rich corporations
LM4sure said:
I really hate childish arguments like this. You simply can't run a society of 300 million people with this kind of mentality. Your family? Perhaps... in a developed nation it isn't about what's fair, or keeping every penny of what you earn. It's more than that. A progressive tax code is necessary for long term economical survival and stability.
Byakuya769
Member
Vestal said:
Nah, I'm pretty sure they'd do as much as possible to protect their short-sighted interests as well.
BruiserBear
Banned
polyh3dron said:
Then provide it. Right here, right now. Give me something that suggests this entire movement of people was based on dislike for the first black president. Your words aren't gonna cut it bud.
mckmas8808 said:
Yes, I'm aware they can "create" jobs, but they certainly aren't a very good manager of such things, based on the debt. Therefore I think the idea of the government just creating jobs because some people need them, is a horrible idea.
If the U.S. government were judged as a corporation, they'd be a fucking horrific failure. That also cannot be denied.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/25/are-tea-partiers-racist.htmlBruiserBear said:
http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/10/the_tea_party_is_racist.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...If-You-Consider-Democrats-and-Liberals-a-Race
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/politics/2010/03/20/tea_party_racism
http://www.infowars.com/mccains-daughter-tea-party-movement-is-racist/
...I'm sorry, but just type in "Tea Party" and "Racist" into google. There are like, a million articles out there about this. The ENTIRE movement probably wasn't overtly based on racism, but racial tensions obviously are a major part of the Tea Party's founding, and of their current state.
BruiserBear said:
I've been down this road before with talking point, spambot monkeys like polyh3dron. He'll just throw up a bunch pictures of questionable signs at tea party rallies and call it a day. Empirical proof, there.
It's the lazy fallback assertion for anyone that is polarized. They fall back on an '-ist' label to explain away their motivations because they are physically and mentally unable to put themselves in their shoes and understand them.
ViperVisor
Member
Tea Party support is also, though not surprisingly, related to Obama birth beliefs. Almost half, 46%, of Tea Party supporters say that Obama was definitely (17%) or probably (29%) not born in the U.S., compared with 5% of Tea Party opponents, and 19% of those who are neither supporters nor opponents of the Tea Party.
We thought some of the explanation for these beliefs could be a result of the fact that people are confused about, or have no knowledge of, where a lot of celebrities are born.
I have stated before it isn't old fashioned racism 90% of the time. But these people had the same seed of ignorance in them and it just blossoms in different ways. They irrationally hate or fear Liberals, Muslims, Immigrants, Government ect ect ect.
and that second sentence from Gallup is golden. Yeah, that's the ticket.
We thought some of the explanation for these beliefs could be a result of the fact that people are confused about, or have no knowledge of, where a lot of celebrities are born.
I have stated before it isn't old fashioned racism 90% of the time. But these people had the same seed of ignorance in them and it just blossoms in different ways. They irrationally hate or fear Liberals, Muslims, Immigrants, Government ect ect ect.
and that second sentence from Gallup is golden. Yeah, that's the ticket.
PhoenixDark
Banned
If Hillary was president there would be a tea party. Might not be the exact same name, but there would be a significant right wing "grass roots" opposition. Obama's race certainly incites a good deal of far right people, and ensures he's mistrusted, but let's not forget how the right treated the Clintons (including their daughter).
Any democrat who won would be blamed for the aftermath of Bush's presidency. Sure it would be easier to blame Obama than say...a President Edwards or Biden, but Hillary would be in the same boat as Obama.
Any democrat who won would be blamed for the aftermath of Bush's presidency. Sure it would be easier to blame Obama than say...a President Edwards or Biden, but Hillary would be in the same boat as Obama.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
There is no way to state just how large of a percentage of the tea party is racist. I will say that IMO the party definitely has a problem with a large number of individuals who have displayed racist tendencies and that has given the entire movement a label.
I disagree. There are ways of sorta figuring this out. Do official polls, then break them down. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-tea-party-movement-is_b_538750.htmlLovingSteam said:
This doesn't mean that these people are actually RACISTS, but... One can hypothesize.
BruiserBear said:
It's true. The teabaggers weren't around when Bush was in office. Hell they didn't "care" about the debt until Obama took office. They weren't screaming about spending when Bush spent us into the toilet. They didn't say anything when he raised the debt limit 7 times. The debt excuse now is just a smokescreen for their real problem: a black man is in the White House. The tea party is made up of nothing but bigots and racists.
Asking if the tea party is racist is like asking if the sky is blue.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Dartastic said:
Where does that show that all or even the vast majority are racist?
NullPointer
Member
Racism or not they're effective, and that's the problem.
BruiserBear
Banned
Evlar said:
That is proof that tea party is racist? *facepalm*
Dartastic said:
I'm sorry, but a handful of articles from liberal blogs isn't going to cut it as proof either. If you've bought into the narrative that certain people wanted to portray than fine, but try and realize that such things won't cut it as proof of something to the general populace.
Viporvisor said:
Did you see the polls where the majority of the entire country wasn't certain he was born in the U.S? The same polls that finally caused Obama to release his birth certificate? He didn't do that because some tea party radicals thought he should. He did it because a majority of the entire populace had doubts about it.
Oh, and it's also kind of funny that some black candidates were elected with the help of the tea party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_(politician)
BruiserBear said:
If the U.S. government were run like a corporation, Senators would make 10mil/year salaries, medicare recipients would receive $500 a year for care, the White House would be relocated to China, and illegal immigrants would be paid $2 a day to deliver our mail.
Dude Abides
Banned
You can't really say anything about the Tea Party because the Tea Party isn't really anything more than an loose collection of angry fools. It doesn't have a platform or a structure or coherent ideology, it's just inchoate rage.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Dude Abides said:
Exactly. There are racists in the movement but since the movement itself isn't a unified body, it's not possible to say the movement itself is or isn't racist. Just a bunch of nutbags.
'"In fact, 25% believe the Obama administration favors blacks over whites. As the Times reports, they believe that "too much has been made of the problems facing black people."'LovingSteam said:
...That's an ENORMOUS portion of the demographic.
"These activists were more likely than supporters generally to describe themselves as very conservative and had more negative views about the economy and Mr. Obama."
'"I just feel hes getting away from what America is, said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. Hes a socialist. And to tell you the truth, I think hes a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I dont care what he says. Hes been in office over a year and cant find a church to go to. That doesnt say much for him.'
Um. ...ummmmmmmmm It certainly demonstrates that there is some inert tension there. I mean, nobody is going to OUTRIGHT say they're a racist. I don't see how someone can deny that a significant portion of the Tea Party's followers have SOME sort of underlying tension there in regards to race or religion. Keep in mind I'M NOT SAYING THE ENTIRE PARTY IS RACIST. I'm just saying that that there is definitely a larger portion of the Tea Party that does suffer from some sort of racial tension, or something. Denying that is silly.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Dartastic said:
Again that poll only shows 25%. How does that prove the entire movement is racist?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
BruiserBear said:
Why should any gov't be judged as a corporation? Their reason for existing are 10)% different.
My thought on taxes for the rich is that they should be happy to pay them as they live in a country which allows them to make such vast sums of money. I have always been middle class and I have no issues paying my share. I would be fine if my taxes were raised, and I am not exactly living a life of luxury.
To me being unwilling to pay your fair share of taxes is un-American. The Rebulicans wrap themselves in the flag whenever they want something. The Dems should do that regarding taxes on the ultra rich and corporations.
To me being unwilling to pay your fair share of taxes is un-American. The Rebulicans wrap themselves in the flag whenever they want something. The Dems should do that regarding taxes on the ultra rich and corporations.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
eznark said:
You're killing man. Go easy.
I'm not saying that. But like, come on. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/07/mcconnell-on-tea-party-racism.htmlLovingSteam said:
...yeah my logic is poor there. My point however, was maybe that someone should ya know, look into these things a little bit first?eznark said:
This is the worst talking point. It will always be the worst talking point. And it tells you everything about the self-destructive nature of Obama-Era progressives that it is almost a universal belief among them (at least on the internet). It seems like this started out as a way convince moderates to support Obama and Democrats, but all it has evolved into is a way for progressives to be constantly negative despite huge policy victories.GhaleonEB said:
The Republicans' healthcare proposals in the '90s were, first and foremost, a counter to Clinton's proposals. But you will notice that once Clinton folded on healthcare and Republicans took Congress, they didn't actually go through with any legislation. Keeping with Republican tradition, they are often very willing to propose common sense legislation before elections, but when elected they instead try to cut funding to Planned Parenthood or legislate further discrimination against homosexuals.
The PPACA differs wildly from the ideas Republicans had in the '90s, and even from Romneycare (which itself was a compromise between a moderate republican and an ultraliberal state). Heck, Bob Dole's plan used a lot of the buzzwords we use today about healthcare reform, but much of it was centered on devolving Medicaid to give states more power on what they cover (read: to allow them to cut off healthcare for poor people), while PPACA strengthened Medicaid significantly (though thanks to electing Republicans in the House, these gains will more than likely be mostly or completely reversed).
The core of the healthcare bill is its large subsidies for buying insurance, which is a new entitlement for the middle class. You're crazy if you think congressional republicans in the '90s would have spent hundreds of billions of dollars to subsidize middle class healthcare. They would have at most passed a mandate and given tax exempt status to certain employers.
There is no comparison to the extensive list of regulations that the PPACA enacted, few of which Republicans would ever pass on their own. The regulations on medical loss ratios alone are hugely significant, and pave the way to a clear progressive victory (PPACA changed them to the point where the CBO said if we change it much further, we will be defacto nationalizing the health insurance industry). Again, if you think Republicans, '90s or otherwise, would be willing to make moves like this, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd love to sell you.
The PPACA was not single-payer healthcare. It's a shame that it wasn't. It's a shame that no one ran on single-payer healthcare and won. It's a shame that we aren't negotiating pharmaceutical prices and importing from Canada. There are many things that could have been done better, but to position what we got as "something the Republicans wanted in the '90s" doesn't pass the laugh test, and yet it's applied to almost everything that has happened in the last three years.
If the healthcare bill is allowed to phase in completely, all it would take to put us on the level of the First World is one more decent Democratic election victory, and a resulting tightening of health care regulations. This is why Republicans do not support the healthcare bill, because they know if it sticks it will improve, and they don't want us to have competent, popular government programs. The sooner progressives stop lying to themselves about how far we've come, the sooner we can start moving forward again.
edit: argh, I see ToxicAdam already posted something similar. Sorry for re-treading a few points.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Ez...oMG!eznark said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
eznark said:
Case closed!
Lord_Byron28
Member
I agree. Both of the Clintons are politically warped and have many times made immoral decisions which is what ultimately hurt Hillary's chances. She and her husband have been around for too long and their issues and problems have been well documented throughout the years. That's what turned voters off of them. In retrospect especially with what happened with the economy in 2008 she would've likely been a much more effective candidate and accomplished what she set out to do. One huge factor that if she was elected, America would've been run by the Bush and Clinton family for 24 years. Obama's "change" message was smart and specifically targeted at Republicans and Hillary.mckmas8808 said:
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Dartastic said:
Nobody is denying that there are many individuals who are part of the movement who have displayed racist tendencies and hold racist ideals but one cannot make a generalization regarding such a disjointed and garbled movement.
Support for Immigration Policy Proposals by Party Identification with a Tea Party Option (University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll, May 2011)
http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/tea-party/guest-column-tea-vs-gop-immigration/
And incidentally...
Tea Party Senators Target Birthright Citizenship for Immigrant Children
And they might support such a move because...
But nooooo, certainly no evidence that Tea Party affiliation can be correlated with fear of the Other.
Code:
Passing a law that would allow illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as children to gain
legal resident status if they join the military.
Rep Dem Tea DK Total
Strongly support 15% 41% 18% 19% 25%
Somewhat support 37% 34% 38% 31% 35%
Somewhat oppose 17% 6% 13% 13% 11%
Strongly oppose 31% 15% 31% 27% 25%
Don't know 1% 4% 1% 11% 5%
Passing a law that would allow illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as children to gain
legal resident status if they go to college.
Rep Dem Tea DK Total
Strongly support 6% 37% 3% 10% 17%
Somewhat support 16% 26% 16% 18% 20%
Somewhat oppose 12% 10% 11% 18% 13%
Strongly oppose 64% 21% 68% 44% 46%
Don't know 2% 7% 2% 10% 6%
Passing a comprehensive immigration overhaul at the federal level that would provide a
pathway to citizenship for most illegal immigrants currently living in the United States.
Rep Dem Tea DK Total
Strongly support 5% 39% 7% 13% 19%
Somewhat support 21% 27% 8% 16% 18%
Somewhat oppose 14% 12% 11% 19% 14%
Strongly oppose 58% 16% 72% 44% 44%
Don't know 2% 6% 3% 9% 5%
Which of the following comes closest to your view on whether local law enforcement
officials should enforce federal immigration laws?
Rep Dem Tea DK Total
Local law enforcement officials should be required to actively enforce federal immigration
laws.
55% 22% 52% 39% 39%
Local law enforcement officials should be allowed to enforce federal immigration laws,
but it should not be a primary responsibility of theirs.
34% 39% 44% 36% 39%
Cities and counties should be allowed to restrict local law enforcement officials from
enforcing federal immigration laws.
8% 24% 3% 9% 12%
Don't know 3% 15% 2% 16%And incidentally...
Tea Party Senators Target Birthright Citizenship for Immigrant Children
And they might support such a move because...
Pew Research Poll, February 24, 2011
But nooooo, certainly no evidence that Tea Party affiliation can be correlated with fear of the Other.
RustyNails
Member
Hokuten said:
NullPointer
Member
"google lies" = 119 million results.PhoenixDark said:
Hey, this is fun.
This is a misreading of my posts, which should be viewed in the context of my past extensive posting on the subject. I have praised the medical loss ratios before, and written extensively about the regulations (which are much weaker than they should be). I've also written extensively about the delivery system reforms a huge suite of pilot programs, which have enormous potential (potential unscored in the CBO reports).Hokuten said:
None the less, the bill was tighly modeled on market based proposals to cover the uninsured from Republicans in the 90's, and which led to MA's bill from which Obama's drew its model. That's a simple fact, and one I pointed to to indicate the rightward tilt to the legislation. It and Obama's other measures only drew GOP opposition because Obama endorsed them; this has been a longrunning pattern of Obama's term. He enmbraces a GOP position (say, an individual mandate) and the GOP turns it into the socialism. That does not defray the point I was making.
This is one of the few times in PoliGAF history I've gotten frustrated with you guys. If you're cheering that post, you haven't read a word I've written over the past two years.RustyNails said:
Aaron Strife
Banned
HOLY SHIT call drudge please THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT AWARE OF THIS YETeznark said:
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
eznark said:
EZNARK LIBERAL
About 1,460 results (0.26 seconds)
OH SNAP
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