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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Milchjon said:
A commentator of one of Germany's largest magazines calls the US a "failed state"
(and actually raises some good points beyond the hyperbole):

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,778316,00.html

Sadly it's only available in German. But if you are interested in it, I might translate parts of it for you. (It's mainly a summary of stuff that's been rather obvious in the past few weeks).

And pleeeease, refrain from those "Germany knows about failed states" standard reactions for once ;-)
Click to expand...
Ah, Google Chrome. Such an Amazing browser for Foreign webpages.
 
U

unomas

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Stock market is awful today :(

I don't know how Congress can take a fucking vacation in this economy.
Click to expand...

Gold and silver, and I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, wake up investment gaf. You willl probably get some relief when they announce QE3, that should artificially inflate stock prices like it did with QE1 and QE2. And even then gold and silver.

Edit

They will use the poor economic data that's coming out right now to justify QE3, and that means more inflation for us, but it also means increased gold, silver, oil, and food prices etc. etc.
 
D

deadbeef

Member
I don't know if anyone in PoliGAF listens to Dan Carlin's Common Sense podcast (somehow I doubt it), but he talks about an interesting issue in his most recent episode:


http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/csarchive/Show-204---Looking-for-a-Left-Hook/jobs-middle-class

Should President Obama be challenged by another Democrat in the 2012 primaries? Dan thinks so. He also discusses the need for better paying jobs for Americans and why they will be so hard to come by.
Click to expand...

Pretty interesting discussion. Thought I'd throw it out there.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Just woke up and realized something. Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to fix one's BAC with more alcohol. Please repeat to everyone you know as if it's your own.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
Byakuya769 said:
Just woke up and realized something. Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to fix one's BAC with more alcohol. Please repeat to everyone you know as if it's your own.
Click to expand...


Not raising the debt limit is like trying to fix one's BAC by opening up a vein to try to bleed out the alcohol.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Above are two posters unwilling to bow to common sense talkiness.

I H8 Memes said:
Not raising the debt limit is like trying to fix one's BAC by opening up a vein to try to bleed out the alcohol.
Click to expand...

This is true. An artery would be more effective.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Byakuya769 said:
Just woke up and realized something. Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to fix one's BAC with more alcohol. Please repeat to everyone you know as if it's your own.
Click to expand...
Why do you feel that such simple issue requires metaphors to understand?

Not raising the debt ceiling is giving the executive a budget but refusing to give him the money to execute it.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Byakuya769 said:
Just woke up and realized something. Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to fix one's BAC with more alcohol. Please repeat to everyone you know as if it's your own.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the austerity! Vote your local tea party in November.
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Byakuya769 said:
Just woke up and realized something. Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to fix one's BAC with more alcohol. Please repeat to everyone you know as if it's your own.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I'd rather not embarrass myself.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Is it true that the debt has reached 100% of GDP?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/04/us-debt-reaches-100-percent-countrys-gdp/

If so, its going to be a fun talking point during the election.

Oh, and someone needs to get their history straight at Fox...

The last time the debt topped the size of its annual economy was in 1947 during World War II, according to AFP. But the deficit at the time was driven by war spending -- a degree of spending that ebbed once the war ended.
Click to expand...

The second WW ended in 1945.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
moop2000 said:
I just don't have the faith in it anymore. I guess if a violent turn of events occurs then maybe, but anything short of a full revolution seems unlikely to affect anything. I appreciate that you have hope and can see the light at the end of the tunnel but I'm just not that positive.
Click to expand...


A full revolution doesn't need to happen. We just need a little bit more accountability.
 
N

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
Measley said:
Is it true that the debt has reached 100% of GDP?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/04/us-debt-reaches-100-percent-countrys-gdp/

If so, its going to be a fun talking point during the election.

Oh, and someone needs to get their history straight at Fox...

The second WW ended in 1945.
Click to expand...

My favorite is that they're pretending we're not still entangled in two wars right now. I guess Afghanistan and Iraq don't count. I'll write a letter to my brother-in-law posted in Afghanistan right now to let him know.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Measley said:
Is it true that the debt has reached 100% of GDP?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/04/us-debt-reaches-100-percent-countrys-gdp/

If so, its going to be a fun talking point during the election.

Oh, and someone needs to get their history straight at Fox...



The second WW ended in 1945.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing about debt to GDP ratios: They don't necessarily measure anything useful.

Here in the US, it might seem like an image of our future, as public debt comes perilously close to 100 per cent of annual GDP and continues to rise. But maybe this image is just a bit too vivid in our imaginations. Could it be that people think that a country becomes insolvent when its debt exceeds 100 per cent of GDP?

That would clearly be nonsense. After all, debt (which is measured in currency units) and GDP (which is measured in currency units per unit of time) yields a ratio in units of pure time. There is nothing special about using a year as that unit. A year is the time that it takes for the earth to orbit the sun, which, except for seasonal industries like agriculture, has no particular economic significance.

We should remember this from high school science: always pay attention to units of measurement. Get the units wrong and you are totally befuddled.
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It's not like we're expected to pay down the debt in one day.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Too bad what the economy needs right now is massive spending in infrastructure and energy. Obama has completely destroyed his credibility and can't take either of those actions, and this certainly won't come from the Republicans either.

The US economy is fucked for the rest of the decade.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Nerevar said:
My favorite is that they're pretending we're not still entangled in two wars right now. I guess Afghanistan and Iraq don't count. I'll write a letter to my brother-in-law posted in Afghanistan right now to let him know.
Click to expand...
So what was that GOP meme a few years back? Someone has already forgotten about 9/11.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
Too bad what the economy needs right now is massive spending in infrastructure and energy. Obama has completely destroyed his credibility and can't take either of those actions, and this certainly won't come from the Republicans either.

The US economy is fucked forever
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Fixed
 
M

Macam

Banned
Obama Turns 50 Despite Republican Opposition

WASHINGTON—After months of heated negotiations and failed attempts to achieve any kind of consensus, President Obama turned 50 years old Thursday, drawing strong criticism from Republicans in Congress. "With the host of problems this country is currently facing, the fact that our president is devoting time to the human process of aging is an affront to Americans everywhere," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who advocated a provision to keep Obama 49 at least through the fall of 2013. "To move forward unilaterally and simply begin the next year of his life without bipartisan support—is that any way to lead a country?" According to White House officials, Obama attempted to work with Republicans right up until the Aug. 4 deadline, but was ultimately left with no choice except to turn a year older.
Click to expand...
 
E

Evlar

Banned
Terribad ugly day today in the World of Finance. Equities trading on Euronext is down due to a technical glitch. Yields on Italian debt are spiraling. Oil is dropping like a rock. S&P is down nearly 3% on the day.

We're witnessing something here... start of a panic, maybe. Another adjustment, maybe (S&P moved into conventional "bear" territory today).

Things will get more interesting before they get boring, I think.
 
P

planar1280

Banned
wait...am I in Bizarro world ? is this really a FRUM article???

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html

Editor's note: David Frum writes a weekly column for CNN.com. A special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2002, he is the author of six books, including "Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again," and is the editor of FrumForum.
(CNN) -- I'm a Republican. Always have been. I believe in free markets, low taxes, reasonable regulation and limited government. But as I look back at the weeks of rancor leading up to Sunday night's last-minute budget deal, I see some things I don't believe in:
Forcing the United States to the verge of default.
Shrugging off the needs and concerns of millions of unemployed.
Protecting every single loophole, giveaway and boondoggle in the tax code as a matter of fundamental conservative principle.
Massive government budget cuts in the midst of the worst recession since World War II.
I am not alone.
Only about one-third of Republicans agree that cutting government spending should be the country's top priority. Only about one-quarter of Republicans insist the budget be balanced without any tax increases.
Yet that one-third and that one-quarter have come to dominate my party. That one-third and that one-quarter forced a debt standoff that could have ended in default and a second Great Recession. That one-third and that one-quarter have effectively written the "no new taxes pledge" into national law.
There was another way. There still is.
Give me a hammer and a church-house door, and I'd post these theses for modern Republicans:
1) Unemployment is a more urgent problem than debt.
The U.S. can borrow money for 10 years at less than 3%. It can borrow money for two years at less than one-half a percent. Yes, the burden of debt is worrying. Yet lenders seem undaunted by those worries.
Meanwhile, more than 14 million Americans are out of work, more than 6 million for longer than six months. The United States has not seen so many people out of work for so long since the 1930s.
2) The deficit is a symptom of America's economic problems, not a cause.
When the economy slumps, government revenues decline and government spending surges.
Federal revenues have collapsed since 2007, down from more than 18% of national income to a little more than 14%. To put that in perspective: That's the equivalent of losing enough revenue to support the entire defense budget.
Federal spending has jumped to pay for unemployment insurance, food stamps and Medicaid benefits.
Fix the economy first, and the deficit will improve on its own.
Cut the deficit first, and the economy will get even sicker.
3) The time to cut is after the economy recovers.
Businesses are hoarding cash. Consumers are repaying debt. State and local governments are slashing jobs. (Since 2009, the number of Americans working for government has shrunk by half a million, the biggest reduction in civilian government employment since the Great Depression.) Right now, there's only one big customer out there: the federal government. How does it help anybody if the feds suddenly stop buying things and paying people?
4) The place to cut is health care, not assistance to the unemployed and poor.
The United States provides less assistance to the unemployed and the poor than almost any other democracy. It spends 60% more per person on health care than almost any other democracy -- and gets worse results. The problem is not that Americans use too much medicine. People in other countries use more. The problem is that Americans pay too much for the medicine they use. Go where the money is, cut where the waste is grossest.
5) We can collect more revenue without raising tax rates.
Republicans stand for low taxes to encourage people to work, save and invest. But how would it discourage work if we reduced the mortgage-interest deduction again? Did it hurt the economy when we reduced the maximum eligible loan to $1 million back in 1986? Do Canadians and Brits -- who lack the deduction -- work less hard than Americans?
Why are state and local taxes deductible from federally taxable income? Wouldn't higher taxes on energy encourage conservation? Who decided to allow inflation to corrode federal alcohol taxes by 80% over the past 50 years?
6) Passion does not substitute for judgment.
Republicans and conservatives have worked themselves into a frenzy of rage and contempt for President Barack Obama. House Speaker John Boehner's post-deal PowerPoint for Republican House members was actually labeled "Two Step Approach to Hold President Obama Accountable" (PDF) -- as if the supreme goal of policy in this time of economic hardship were to fix the blame for all problems on the president. This exercise in finger-pointing satisfies the emotions of the Republican base. It does not accurately explain the causes of the crisis or offer plausible remedies.
7) You can't save the system by destroying the system.
In their passion, Republicans convinced themselves that the constitutional republic and the free-enterprise system were threatened as never before. Their response? To threaten to blow up the free-enterprise system and wreck the republic unless they gained their point.
Republicans have become so gripped by pessimism and panic that they feel they have nothing to lose by rushing into a catastrophe now. But there is a lot to lose, and in these past weeks America nearly lost it. Let's hope that as America steps back from the brink, Republicans remember that it's their job to protect the system, not to smash the system in hopes of building something better from the ruins.
That's how student radicals think -- not conservatives.
Click to expand...
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
It's going to be very interesting to see just how much influence the Tea Party movement will gain (lose) over the next 13 months. They realize they're pretty much a ball and chain on the Republican party and the government as a whole. They pretty much smell blood. If they gain seats in the Senate and House next November then wow.
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
Frum has always been the most level-headed of the conservatives. You feel like you can at least reason with the guy.

I liked this from his blog today:

http://www.frumforum.com/could-it-be-that-our-enemies-were-right

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Wall Street Journal editorial page between 2000 and 2011, and someone in the same period who read only the collected columns of Paul Krugman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of the current economic crisis? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?
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I

Invisible_Insane

Member
eznark said:
Personally I'm shocked that anything Huntsman has ever done turned out "blistering."

Sorry democrats, looks like you'll have to find a new republican to fawn over.
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It wasn't so much "fawning" as it was hoping that the last thing resembling sane in your party would actually have a shot.

Alas.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
planar1280 said:
wait...am I in Bizarro world ? is this really a FRUM article???

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html
Click to expand...

He is one of the few remaining on the right that actually believes it is good thing to look at evidence instead of just following dogma & faith-based nonsense. He was on the Point of Inquiry podcast recently where he mourned the Right's war on science.
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/david_frum_and_kenneth_silber_conservatives_and_science/
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
deadbeef said:
I don't know if anyone in PoliGAF listens to Dan Carlin's Common Sense podcast (somehow I doubt it), but he talks about an interesting issue in his most recent episode:


http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/csarchive/Show-204---Looking-for-a-Left-Hook/jobs-middle-class



Pretty interesting discussion. Thought I'd throw it out there.
Click to expand...


The left side of America would do better requesting more stimulus and help for American jobs and stop crying for cuts in spending in 2012.
 
D

Dram

Member
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0811/Romney_signs_marriage_pledge.html?showall

Former Gov. Mitt Romney has joined Rep. Michele Bachmann and former Sen. Rick Santorum in signing a pledge to oppose same-sex marriage on a number of specific fronts.

They've also pledged to support offering a referendum on marriage in the District of Columbia, and to establish a "presidential commission on religious liberty" aimed at protecting the rights of marriage foes to speak out.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Dram said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0811/Romney_signs_marriage_pledge.html?showall

Former Gov. Mitt Romney has joined Rep. Michele Bachmann and former Sen. Rick Santorum in signing a pledge to oppose same-sex marriage on a number of specific fronts.

They've also pledged to support offering a referendum on marriage in the District of Columbia, and to establish a "presidential commission on religious liberty" aimed at protecting the rights of marriage foes to speak out.
Click to expand...

lol.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
LovingSteam said:
It's going to be very interesting to see just how much influence the Tea Party movement will gain (lose) over the next 13 months. They realize they're pretty much a ball and chain on the Republican party and the government as a whole. They pretty much smell blood. If they gain seats in the Senate and House next November then wow.
Click to expand...

The Christian Coalition (neo-evangelicals) were a ball and chain to the Republicans in the 90's and it didn't matter. They still have their voice in the party.

In fact, I think the tea party is just an offshoot of that group with a more libertarian bent.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
planar1280 said:
wait...am I in Bizarro world ? is this really a FRUM article???

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html
Click to expand...

Frum is on the far right of reasonable opinion. The points in his article are things about which all people, to be reasonable, must agree. Only within the parameters and bounds of this article should we begin making distinctions between "conservative" and "progressive" solutions. Anything outside of these parameters should be culled completely, dismissed out of hand as irrational and/or delusional.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Dram said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0811/Romney_signs_marriage_pledge.html?showall

Former Gov. Mitt Romney has joined Rep. Michele Bachmann and former Sen. Rick Santorum in signing a pledge to oppose same-sex marriage on a number of specific fronts.

They've also pledged to support offering a referendum on marriage in the District of Columbia, and to establish a "presidential commission on religious liberty" aimed at protecting the rights of marriage foes to speak out.
Click to expand...

THAT WILL CREATE JOBS!
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
The Christian Coalition (neo-evangelicals) were a ball and chain to the Republicans in the 90's and it didn't matter. They still have their voice in the party.

In fact, I think the tea party is just an offshoot of that group with a more libertarian bent.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that the metamorphosis definitely took place from Christian Coalition to Tea Party. The effects of the Christian influence are still being felt today though (gay marriage, anti abortion focus, creationism, etc). The Tea Party IMO is a different animal though. It's one thing to push a party to be against an issue which doesn't effect every single person in this country (gay marriage) and its another to hold such sway on an issue like our economy. The Tea Party also seems to be much more organized and hold more sway than the Christian sect of the party ever was.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
LovingSteam said:
Oh, I agree that the metamorphosis definitely took place from Christian Coalition to Tea Party. The effects of the Christian influence are still being felt today though (gay marriage, anti abortion focus, creationism, etc). The Tea Party IMO is a different animal though. It's one thing to push a party to be against an issue which doesn't effect every single person in this country (gay marriage) and its another to hold such sway on an issue like our economy. The Tea Party also seems to be much more organized and hold more sway than the Christian sect of the party ever was.
Click to expand...


Hmm .. not sure I agree with that last part. I think Ralph Reed held more sway over influential people than any current Tea Party member can lay claim to. I think the fear of the tea party is greater than whatever fear the Christian Coalition instilled. That's just because anyone can claim a tea party candidacy in a primary and have a shot of overturning an incumbent's nomination. That's where the influence comes from.
 
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