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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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airmangataosenai said:
When I got to the last line man.... I had to walk away from the computer because I was laughing too hard. Matt Damon is so awesome.
Best part is that the bimbo interviewing Matt Damon didn't have any comeback, so the white knight Cameraman jumps to her defense ass first and gets knocked out the moment he lands. So what does reason.tv do? they edit the video and put in the Good Will Hunting's Damon crying scene.

Bunch of losers, both morally as well as intellectually.
 

Wall

Member
Evlar said:
Getting close to freefall conditions here... Oil is down more than 5.5% today, the 10-year T-note is below 2.5% (what was S&P saying, again? because it sure as hell looks like investors are fleeing to US bonds).

Good thing the T-Party got the government to live within its means.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
planar1280 said:
not really, this fall was not nearly about US market, it was mostly about Euro collapse

Yep. At least for today. I hope people on cable news are saying this also.
 
LovingSteam said:
:eek: makes sense. Maybe SomeDude was a jolly, happy go lucky liberal in Clinton times, but the doom and gloom transformed him into an obsessed freak Gollum style. Diablos is headed the same way. I'll give him a year before the talk of secession begins.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
LovingSteam said:
Do you realize there hasn't been 1 jobs bill since the Republicans took the house?


a Jobs bill is not a "common sense solution to jobs" we "need a pro-growth" solution!

- We need a broader, fairer tax code aka more lazy people paying taxes!
- Lower Capital Gains taxes
- Lower tax on job creators
- Get rid of wasteful goverment spending, this will spur job growth and and give investors the confidence to invest in america.

Damn, I know the gop talking points by heart :(
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'd just like to point out that gas stations jumped prices 30 cents this morning in our area.

Oil had been dropping steadily all week and there are no refinery issues whatsoever. Oil is $15 lower than it was earlier this week. Major price-gouging, and this administration will do nothing about it because the energy secretary is on record saying that we should pay what Europe pays for gasoline.
 

Evlar

Banned
Plinko said:
I'd just like to point out that gas stations jumped prices 30 cents this morning in our area.

Oil had been dropping steadily all week and there are no refinery issues whatsoever. Oil is $15 lower than it was earlier this week. Major price-gouging, and this administration will do nothing about it because the energy secretary is on record saying that we should pay what Europe pays for gasoline.
I'm pretty certain Chu is talking about gas taxes, not oil company profiteering.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Plinko said:
Oil had been dropping steadily all week and there are no refinery issues whatsoever. Oil is $15 lower than it was earlier this week. Major price-gouging, and this administration will do nothing about it because the energy secretary is on record saying that we should pay what Europe pays for gasoline.

If the Obama administration were really indifferent about gas prices they wouldn't have tapped the reserves.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Plinko said:
I'd just like to point out that gas stations jumped prices 30 cents this morning in our area.

Oil had been dropping steadily all week and there are no refinery issues whatsoever. Oil is $15 lower than it was earlier this week. Major price-gouging, and this administration will do nothing about it because the energy secretary is on record saying that we should pay what Europe pays for gasoline.

Where do you live where gas prices are still going up? Ours went down by 5-10 cents this week.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
mckmas8808 said:
Where do you live where gas prices are still going up? Ours went down by 5-10 cents this week.

Indiana, where Greedway regulates the prices. Went from $3.55 to $3.83 this morning.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Evlar said:
I'm pretty certain Chu is talking about gas taxes, not oil company profiteering.
ToxicAdam said:
If the Obama administration were really indifferent about gas prices they wouldn't have tapped the reserves.

Until they do something about reigning in the massive speculation it's all for naught.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Plinko said:
Indiana, where Greedway regulates the prices. Went from $3.55 to $3.83 this morning.


Damn man. Our gas here (Dallas) went from $3.59 to $3.50. I wish it could be against the law to gouge gas prices.



Plinko said:
Until they do something about reigning in the massive speculation it's all for naught.


Yeah that's easier said than done.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
mckmas8808 said:
Damn man. Our gas here (Dallas) went from $3.59 to $3.50. I wish it could be against the law to gouge gas prices.

Yeah, now they can drop the price 30 cents over the next week right back to where it was even though oil is plummeting.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
She Has A Plan: Pelosi Says There’ll Be No More Hostage Crises
Brian Beutler | August 4, 2011, 1:30PM



pelosi-facelift-cropped-proto-custom_2.jpg





Without disclosing details, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) says she has a plan for dealing with the Republicans' legislative hostage-taking strategy. In a meeting with a small group of reporters in her office Thursday morning, she said the dynamics of the debt limit fight -- where Democrats were forced to accept deep cuts to government programs on the threat of default -- will not happen again.

"Suffice to say that you won't see a repetition of what happened last week, taking us to the last minute when they didn't even have the votes -- they didn't even have the votes -- and then saying to us 'You will be responsible for a default," Pelosi said in response to a question from TPM.

Pelosi was reluctant to spell out just how she would stave off this situation, however. "I would say that if I were to tell you...it would be defanged," she said, after being pressed for details. "In terms of what we -- how we would approach where they go from here. And that may be a House Democratic position.... Our members were very unhappy about that vote the other day. Very unhappy."

Just how Democrats plan to proceed may ultimately depend on their willingness to stomach the unpleasant consequences of letting Republicans shoot the hostages. But in a revealing moment, Pelosi hinted Democrats may have reached their breaking point.

"[W]e wouldn't let our country default," Pelosi said. "But I'll say it this way to you. A default is a much more serious consequence than a shutdown of government for a few days."

"Expect us to be more visible in terms of what we say here and how we mobilize out side to make sure the Republicans know the risk of taking us to the brink," she added, when asked to provide more details. "It's to make it a completely unacceptable place for the Republicans to go because it will have public consequence."

Even if Democrats are willing to go there, they'll likely face another tough choice at the end of the year -- between a deficit reduction package that Republicans are insisting contain no tax increases, and pulling the trigger on an enforcement mechanism that cuts Medicare reimbursements to hospitals and doctors, and slashes defense spending by half a trillion dollars. For now, Pelosi's saying Dems will work hard to avoid that penalty. But their frustration is already rising.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is already furious that Republicans are setting this fight up to play out exactly as the debt limit fight did.

"So what does that leave the committee to do?" Reid told Politico. "Should Pelosi and I just not appoint and walk away?"

####################


Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. But I hope this will happen.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Plinko said:
Until they do something about reigning in the massive speculation it's all for naught.


Well, if you want to go down the road of fantasy and improbability, oil is as important to our populace as clean water and should be controlled/dispersed by the government in a similar manner.

---///---

"Suffice to say that you won't see a repetition of what happened last week, taking us to the last minute when they didn't even have the votes -- they didn't even have the votes -- and then saying to us 'You will be responsible for a default," Pelosi said in response to a question from TPM

Need to save this one in a file. I have a feeling I will be pulling it out again.
 

Evlar

Banned
Mystic Theurge said:
Does anyone have a link to a source that supports the argument that socialized medicine wouldn't hurt innovation?
Many medical advances have been "socialized" in the sense the hard science research is funded in whole or in part by public grants to university research labs.

(I realize that's not a link, just a starting point for an argument).
 
Plinko said:
I'd just like to point out that gas stations jumped prices 30 cents this morning in our area.

Oil had been dropping steadily all week and there are no refinery issues whatsoever. Oil is $15 lower than it was earlier this week. Major price-gouging, and this administration will do nothing about it because the energy secretary is on record saying that we should pay what Europe pays for gasoline.
Steven Chu makes one statement AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN LONG BEFORE BEING IN THE ADMINISTRATION and it has become the prime source for 8 million conservative op-eds, rants, whines, etc. about how Obama wants to take away your SUV and turn you into a European that rides a communist train or rides a bike.

The administration has not raised gas taxes (even though they should). They have not even talked about raising gas taxes (even though they should) because it is viewed as political suicide. But reality doesn't matter . . . if you can gin up spin from long ago statements by a private citizen that means they are all commies! The fact that no move has been made to raise oil prices . . . and in fact they did something to try to lower oil prices (by releasing oil from the strategic reserves) doesn't matter. (Actually it did matter in that they found ways to whine about that too.)



But regarding "price-gouging" . . . why do you hate the free market? Do you think capitalism should be illegal?
 

Dude Abides

Banned
LovingSteam said:
Do you realize there hasn't been 1 jobs bill since the Republicans took the house?

That's because their ideology is that the gov't can't do much to create jobs except cut taxes and lighten regulation. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Dude Abides said:
That's because their ideology is that the gov't can't do much to create jobs except cut taxes and lighten regulation. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


It doesn't matter how many times you explain that to people in here. They keep repeating the talking point. I've done it at least 4 times in the past month.
 

Evlar

Banned
Dude Abides said:
That's because their ideology is that the gov't can't do much to create jobs except cut taxes and lighten regulation. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Well, they DID promise legislation that would create bills. Here's the appropriate page on the Pledge to America website. They take credit for stuff like:
Repeal Job-Killing Small Business Mandates
One of the most controversial mandates of the Democrats' government takeover of health care requires small businesses to report to the Internal Revenue Service any purchases that run more than $600. This 1099 reporting mandate is so overbearing that the IRS ombudsman has determined that the agency is ill-equipped to handle all the resulting paperwork. We will repeal this job-killing small business mandate.

This Promise was Fulfilled on March 3, 2011
With the passage of H.R. 4, The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act of 2011, an expansion currently scheduled to take effect in 2012 of information that businesses must report to the Internal Revenue Service on Form 1099 was repealed.
Oh I'm sure the jobs will just be rolling in starting in 2012 thanks to this action.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Doc Holliday said:
Krugman predicted this shit when Obama let congress write the original stimulus bill, so sad :/


So who was suppose to write it?



ToxicAdam said:
It doesn't matter how many times you explain that to people in here. They keep repeating the talking point. I've done it at least 4 times in the past month.


I don't understand.....you believe gov't can create jobs?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
speculawyer said:
But regarding "price-gouging" . . . why do you hate the free market? Do you think capitalism should be illegal?

The "free market" for oil isn't driven by fundamentals--the vast majority of that price is driven by speculation in a market where very little cash needs to be put up front to buy a large amount of oil. We've argued this a hundred times already. I have many contacts high up in the oil industry. They all agree oil has no business being priced that high and that gas should be about $2.50 a gallon right now. If brent crude rises $3, prices go up 10 cents overnight. If brent crude drops $3, prices drop 10 cents a week from that day.

It's not right and should be regulated as such.
 

Wall

Member
Doc Holliday said:
Krugman predicted this shit when Obama let congress write the original stimulus bill, so sad :/

He also predicted the clusterfuck in Europe. I wouldn't say so too loud though ....

He's been a bit too outspoken in his criticism of conventional wisdom to maintain credibility with a certain segment of the population ....
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Doc Holliday said:
Krugman predicted this shit when Obama let congress write the original stimulus bill, so sad :/
I'm honestly surprised he has any hair left. He predicted everything so far to a T. His analysis on how the policy failings in the stimulus bill would lead to political paralysis and subsequent policy failure - two years ago - has proven to be spot on.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Evlar said:
Well, they DID promise legislation that would create bills. Here's the appropriate page on the Pledge to America website. They take credit for stuff like:
Oh I'm sure the jobs will just be rolling in starting in 2012 thanks to this action.

Right, they think PPACA, since it was gov't regulation, was bad and job-killing. They've been saying this about any and all regulation since before any of us were born - I don't think they're suddenly doing it in bad faith right now.
 

BigSicily

Banned
Evlar said:
They manage to respond to a fractional change in the price of oil in short order... when it goes up, at least.

This is exemplar of why this thread needs to be purged; it's all hand-waving with no sign of genuine understanding. A back-of-the-envelope calculation, that everyone here should be able to do and would lead one to the conclusion that it's better to just not post, is omitted. This took around 10 minutes:

According to the US Energy Information Agency, the US petroleum consumption is 19,148,000 barrels/day (1).

We'll define your nebulous term that means nothing, "fractional change," as the actual, rigorous term that everyone who graduated highschool understands to be the standard deviation, of monthly petroleum costs for 2010 and 2011 separately. IL Hub (2) was easy to find and will map to movements* in other basin/hubs, as well as futures.

2010 IL Hub costs:
Mean cost/barrel: $71.28
Standard Dev: $4.69​

2011 IL Hub costs:
Mean cost/barrel: $90.33
Standard Dev: $6.94​

That yields a mean supply induced shock to the economy of approximately 7% of the cost of crude, or $6 bucks/barrel as per the two year period.

19,148,000 barrels * $6 = $114.9 million/day, or $3.45 Billion/month.
This is the increased cost the average fluctuation in petroleum took out of household budgets. It is a virtual tax on users.

You then proceed to compare this to the FAA shut down -- a one-off event -- which nets $28.6 million/day in taxes (3). Hmm... even to a first approximation you should have come to the realization the article you posted was ideological bullshit (as if the url didn't predispose that).


Furthermore, and vastly more importantly, there are widespread downstream effects of the non-linear costs of petroleum though the economy and it's productivity that are missed in a straight numerical comparison. This is what happens when enormous amounts of the economy are dependent on refined products that have various pricing lag times (eg. crack spread). There is a higher relative 'multiplier' effect on petroleum prices through the economy. Your comparison is utterly ridiculous at any deeper level of study.


At some level, your post is representative of why our schools are failing us. You are patently unable to think, to actually utilize knowledge and compute what's not hand fed to you -- in this case by thinkprogress. All of us, as we approach the types of problems we expect the 21st century to hold, should be able to have a basic conceptual framework by which to objective measure if something is valid. Fermi was brilliant at these back-of-the-napkin calculations. And you have no excuse here, the basic calculations are simplistic to an extreme. How can you approach complex issues like the national debt, international relations, investing, molecular biotechnology, or hell, even know if the dosage of insulin you need to give your mother is in the ballpark of being correct if you can't solve the above? It's shameful.

Unfortunately, your post is also indicative of why poligaf is a cesspool and waste of effort. Lets be honest, it's not a place for actual debate. It's overwhelmingly populated by leftists, moderated by leftists, and is used not as a place whereby a point-of-view can be examined, but one in which a non-leftist opinion is attacked 10-15 times in quick repetition while leftists are free to post utter crap because the cost-benefit of actually replying is ridiculous. It's a support-group for like minded kids to feel that their positions are valid and worthy.

To borrow from Feymann, poligaf is to the real world as masturbation is to sex. It might feel good, but you're still just touching yourself.


* EDIT: For clarity, the movement is what's important, not the absolute price as we assume zero-sum at this level.
 
Evlar said:
Many medical advances have been "socialized" in the sense the hard science research is funded in whole or in part by public grants to university research labs.

(I realize that's not a link, just a starting point for an argument).

I was about to say the same exact thing, almost in those words. Here is a link that actually isn't very helpful, but does contain information that helps demonstrate this to some extent: http://www.eaepc.org/parallel_distribution/myth.php?n=2
 
BigSicily said:
This is exemplar of why this thread needs to be purged; it's all hand-waving with no sign of genuine understanding. A back-of-the-envelope calculation, that everyone here should be able to do and would lead one to the conclusion that it's better to just not post, is omitted. This took around 10 minutes:

As endearing as ever.
 
mckmas8808 said:
She Has A Plan: Pelosi Says There’ll Be No More Hostage Crises
Brian Beutler | August 4, 2011, 1:30PM



pelosi-facelift-cropped-proto-custom_2.jpg





Without disclosing details, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) says she has a plan for dealing with the Republicans' legislative hostage-taking strategy. In a meeting with a small group of reporters in her office Thursday morning, she said the dynamics of the debt limit fight -- where Democrats were forced to accept deep cuts to government programs on the threat of default -- will not happen again.

"Suffice to say that you won't see a repetition of what happened last week, taking us to the last minute when they didn't even have the votes -- they didn't even have the votes -- and then saying to us 'You will be responsible for a default," Pelosi said in response to a question from TPM.

Pelosi was reluctant to spell out just how she would stave off this situation, however. "I would say that if I were to tell you...it would be defanged," she said, after being pressed for details. "In terms of what we -- how we would approach where they go from here. And that may be a House Democratic position.... Our members were very unhappy about that vote the other day. Very unhappy."

Just how Democrats plan to proceed may ultimately depend on their willingness to stomach the unpleasant consequences of letting Republicans shoot the hostages. But in a revealing moment, Pelosi hinted Democrats may have reached their breaking point.

"[W]e wouldn't let our country default," Pelosi said. "But I'll say it this way to you. A default is a much more serious consequence than a shutdown of government for a few days."

"Expect us to be more visible in terms of what we say here and how we mobilize out side to make sure the Republicans know the risk of taking us to the brink," she added, when asked to provide more details. "It's to make it a completely unacceptable place for the Republicans to go because it will have public consequence."

Even if Democrats are willing to go there, they'll likely face another tough choice at the end of the year -- between a deficit reduction package that Republicans are insisting contain no tax increases, and pulling the trigger on an enforcement mechanism that cuts Medicare reimbursements to hospitals and doctors, and slashes defense spending by half a trillion dollars. For now, Pelosi's saying Dems will work hard to avoid that penalty. But their frustration is already rising.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is already furious that Republicans are setting this fight up to play out exactly as the debt limit fight did.

"So what does that leave the committee to do?" Reid told Politico. "Should Pelosi and I just not appoint and walk away?"

####################


Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. But I hope this will happen.

As long as Obama is president, this will never happen.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Plinko said:
The "free market" for oil isn't driven by fundamentals--the vast majority of that price is driven by speculation in a market where very little cash needs to be put up front to buy a large amount of oil. We've argued this a hundred times already. I have many contacts high up in the oil industry. They all agree oil has no business being priced that high and that gas should be about $2.50 a gallon right now. If brent crude rises $3, prices go up 10 cents overnight. If brent crude drops $3, prices drop 10 cents a week from that day.

It's not right and should be regulated as such.


You sure about the vast majority? I thought I read something like 10%-15%.
 
BigSicily said:
At some level, your post is representative of why our schools are failing us. You are patently unable to think, to actually utilize knowledge and compute what's not hand fed to you -- in this case by thinkprogress. All of us, as we approach the types of problems we expect the 21st century to hold, should be able to have a basic conceptual framework by which to objective measure if something is valid. Fermi was brilliant at these back-of-the-napkin calculations. And you have no excuse here, the basic calculations are simplistic to an extreme. How can you approach complex issues like the national debt, international relations, investing, molecular biotechnology, or hell, even know if the dosage of insulin you need to give your mother is in the ballpark of being correct if you can't solve the above? It's shameful.

Aren't you the guy who can't tell the difference between an assertion that (1) increasing income inequality in a society leaves most people worse off than they would have been absent the increase and an assertion that (2) increasing income inequality leaves most people poorer in real terms than before the increase?

Because whenever I make point (1), you never fail to respond that point (2) isn't true. Just checking.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
mckmas8808 said:
You sure about the vast majority? I thought I read something like 10%-15%.

Sorry--I should have said majority of price aside from extraction costs and any necessities, including a nice-sized profit for the company. I read a report that had speculation jacking up prices of oil almost 50% higher than they should at one point but many reports have had it adding anywhere from $20-$50 extra to the price.
 

BigSicily

Banned
Mystic Theurge said:
Does anyone have a link to a source that supports the argument that socialized medicine wouldn't hurt innovation?

I would like to comment on this and the replies so far, given my perspective in the pipeline, I just don't have the time right now.
 

Cyan

Banned
BigSicily said:
Did I miss something? What's all this in reply to? Evlar made a one-off crack about ticket prices going up due to higher oil prices... what's all this standard deviation business about?
 
Evlar said:
Many medical advances have been "socialized" in the sense the hard science research is funded in whole or in part by public grants to university research labs.

(I realize that's not a link, just a starting point for an argument).

empty vessel said:
I was about to say the same exact thing, almost in those words. Here is a link that actually isn't very helpful, but does contain information that helps demonstrate this to some extent: http://www.eaepc.org/parallel_distribution/myth.php?n=2

Thanks, but as I'm researching, I'm getting conflicting reports.

Wiki says that the private-public split (2006) is 63.7% and 31% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_science)

An article from JAMA says the private-public split (2003) is 57% and 28% (http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/294/11/1333)
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Cyan said:
Did I miss something? What's all this in reply to? Evlar made a one-off crack about ticket prices going up due to higher oil prices... what's all this standard deviation business about?
Is this your first time reading a BigSilly post?
 
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