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[Mardak]

"Vote Paul for President: He most likely won't get to do all the things he's promising to do."
Uhh, no thanks.

Ron Paul does not need to do anything to be successful. What he *doesn't* do is just as important. As president, he would be able to veto any bills that passed where corporate influence only needed to convince 50% of the members that it's a good thing.

Do you think it's right that big corporations like pharmaceutical companies only need to find a relatively small number of representatives and senators to vote a certain way instead of those companies convincing the whole population that they should get preferential treatment?

President Paul would force those corporations to work harder to get the 2/3 vote to override the veto. Hopefully there's enough representatives that have principles to follow the voices of people in their districts than listening to the big dollars.

Also as commander-in-chief, he would be able to stop all the wars. If that's all he did, I would be quite happy already.

 

[Mortrialus]

Because the people in that state have decided that they don't want their money spent a certain way. If you live in that state and want to make a difference, engage in the state-level elections. Until then, the rest of the states and their residents can choose not to subsidize Utah, and eventually enough people in the state will get fed up with the state's stupid policies and either leave or also take part in making a difference.

This isn't an issue of tax dollars. This is an openly discriminatory policy, that can only be used for discrimination by bigots. There is no good that could possibly come from it and it is actively hurting thousands if not millions of lives. Heterosexual couples are already guaranteed the legal recognition of their marriage in all states. You have failed to provide good reason why the same should not be true for homosexual couples.

There are certain things where the majority does not get their way, where no matter how high the percentage of people want it. These are called rights. As I mentioned, Heterosexual couples are already guaranteed legal recognition of their marriage in all states. States do not get to decide on this matter. Do homosexuals deserve the same rights as heterosexual people?

This is specifically why I view Ron Paul's position as simply a smokescreen to obfuscate his support of institutionalized discrimination. States rights did not work for slavery. It was a catastrophe. Despite what other libertarians might have told you, states rights did not work for Civil Rights. You had lynch mobs making spectacle out of murdering African Americans. Racism was so systemic in the south that action on the federal level was absolutely necessary. This is why I roll my eyes when you type statements like "Nobody is forced to be negatively impacted by another person's racism." Except they were. The overwhelming majority of businesses in southern states were owned by white men, most of whom specifically denied service to black people. There is where statements like "What benefit does a store owner get for treating a customer poorly with bad food or bad service?" absolutely fall apart because it did benefit them specifically because most store owners would have been laughed out of business for not catering exclusively to whites. They improved their success specifically by catering to racists and denying service to blacks. And guess what? In this regard, the Civil Rights Act was a profound success.

I'm not here to judge that.

The important thing is that we approach this disparity like the nation did in the 1960's, by following a policy of states rights and federal noninterference.

Some states had more progressive policies towards racial equality, and as those states attracted more residents and businesses, it put pressure on the other states to adopt those policies.

This is the kind of marketplace of ideas that Ron Paul supports. Shouldn't you?

Gah. You got me so badly.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Not to sane people.

Look at who his audience was.

 

[nateeasy]

We're not autistic (not that there's anything wrong with that). We can understand what a person means by looking at more than the words literally coming out of his mouth.

You are just putting words into his mouth. You really think he wants to secede? I mean c'mon now.

 

[Oblivion]

"I'm not saying I'm gonna kill anyone, but if I don't get my way, well who knows if someone's gonna get a few bullets lodged in their skulls."

Are we missing this part? Hate Perry if you want. But saying he suggested Texas should secede isn't accurate.

well that settles that

 

[ToxicAdam]

Read about the clusterfuck in Houston over red light cameras.

 

[Quadrangulum]

I blame John Huntsman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGSxZJAKrNk

This one's far worse.

 

[Vestal]

shopGaf come on make me proud with this image.. DO THE DEED!

http://i.imgur.com/Ptw8H.jpg

little flip and fun =)

 

[Mortrialus]

yes i see absolutely nothing wrong with that statement

I didn't say there wasn't anything wrong with that. I think Rusty Nails best sums it up.

"That's a nice union you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it."

To me, he was being very careful not to explicitly state "Secession! YES! That is the kind of plan I think we should follow" It was dangerously close to it, but it was still simply political posturing and taunting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGSxZJAKrNk

This one's far worse.

As a bassist, I have to say, the guy they have playing bass is absolutely awful.

 

[Nerevar]

inane rant.

I always love the standard libertarian ideology of "blame Fannie / Freddie / HUD / minorities / whatever". Guess what - you guys are all incredibly naive. I grew up in northern Virginia (just outside of DC) in the late 80s / early 90s. I have many family friends whose parents were manager-level at Freddie Mac, most who retired in the late 90s / early 2000s. Virtually all of them retired on the value of their Freddie stock alone - many knew the shit was about to hit the fan so they cashed out before it did and are now living off it. The people who worked there desperately wanted to get into the subprime game. Did HUD and the Clinton administration want them to make more risky loans to prop up low-income home ownership? Of course, but they didn't *make* anyone give those loans out. Fannie and Freddie made those loans because they made more money that way. It was the absence of regulation that resulted in Fannie and Freddie buying up more subprime loans, not a preponderance of bad regulation.

I don't even know why I bother, cognitive dissonance is too strong to overcome in 99% of people who post online. Go back to whatever news source you have that reinforces your belief about the housing crisis and the terrible role democratic economic policy played in it. Whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Dude Abides]

Ron Paul does not need to do anything to be successful. What he *doesn't* do is just as important. As president, he would be able to veto any bills that passed where corporate influence only needed to convince 50% of the members that it's a good thing.

Do you think it's right that big corporations like pharmaceutical companies only need to find a relatively small number of representatives and senators to vote a certain way instead of those companies convincing the whole population that they should get preferential treatment?

President Paul would force those corporations to work harder to get the 2/3 vote to override the veto. Hopefully there's enough representatives that have principles to follow the voices of people in their districts than listening to the big dollars.

Also as commander-in-chief, he would be able to stop all the wars. If that's all he did, I would be quite happy already.

Ron Paul as modern-day William Jennings Bryan is an angle I had not yet heard.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Well, the good news is that there was a full investigation into Fannie and Freddie and people were fired and made examples of. Then the Democrat-led Congress passed a comprehensive bill that reformed the institutions.

So, even though the regulators fucked up, at least the politicians that had been shielding them from reform for the past decade made up for it in the end.

 

[A Human Becoming]

What the hell is going on in here?

 

[Oblivion]

I didn't say there wasn't anything wrong with that. I think Rusty Nails best sums it up.

Oh shit, terribly sorry, but I didn't even mean to quote you! :lol

 

[Mortrialus]

Oh shit, terribly sorry, but I didn't even mean to quote you! :lol

No worries. I thought something was kind of off in your statement.

 

[Cyan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9vP8DjEB6Y

Aww, now I feel bad.

 

[RustyNails]

I always love the standard libertarian ideology of "blame Fannie / Freddie / HUD / minorities / whatever". Guess what - you guys are all incredibly naive. I grew up in northern Virginia (just outside of DC) in the late 80s / early 90s. I have many family friends whose parents were manager-level at Freddie Mac, most who retired in the late 90s / early 2000s. Virtually all of them retired on the value of their Freddie stock alone - many knew the shit was about to hit the fan so they cashed out before it did and are now living off it. The people who worked there desperately wanted to get into the subprime game. Did HUD and the Clinton administration want them to make more risky loans to prop up low-income home ownership? Of course, but they didn't *make* anyone give those loans out. Fannie and Freddie made those loans because they made more money that way. It was the absence of regulation that resulted in Fannie and Freddie buying up more subprime loans, not a preponderance of bad regulation.

I don't even know why I bother, cognitive dissonance is too strong to overcome in 99% of people who post online. Go back to whatever news source you have that reinforces your belief about the housing crisis and the terrible role democratic economic policy played in it. Whatever makes you feel better.

Nah, please continue posting. I was gonna write up something similar, but it's always great to hear from someone who actually saw how shit went down. Major break from theorizing and pulling hypothetical if statements from thin air. Besides, Mardak seems to think Clinton and W are both responsible for deregulation, when that's not even the point at all. The point is deregulation, regardless of who was the president, directly led to economic collapse in 2008. We don't have to go a few years back until we hit the Enron scandal, which was due to deregulation in a much more acute context.

 

[Father_Brain]

Wait, since when is Mandark back?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Am I the only one who thinks Paul is just too old? He's 75. He could literally day any day.

Perry's sure throwin' some red meat

I've been skimming that site and the might as well call it www.fuckconservatives.org

 

[empty vessel]

You are just putting words into his mouth. You really think he wants to secede? I mean c'mon now.

I think he wants to pander to those who want to secede. Which means he's on the hook for it.

 

[mj1108]

shopGaf come on make me proud with this image.. DO THE DEED!

http://i.imgur.com/Ptw8H.jpg

little flip and fun =)

No shop needed. If elected, it'll be Heil Perry!

Not to sane people.

Sane people are smart enough not to vote for him. He was talking to teabaggers after all.

 

[Cyan]

Read about the clusterfuck in Houston over red light cameras.

Beautiful!

Man, it sure would be sad if ATS were to "incur irreparable harm for which no remedy at law exists." Bahahaha!

 

[empty vessel]

Beautiful!

Man, it sure would be sad if ATS were to "incur irreparable harm for which no remedy at law exists." Bahahaha!

I.e., be subject to democracy.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Because it would be nearly impossible to track the various deductions that everyone takes. You'd have to know their marriage status, number of kids, home situation, etc., many of which would breach employment hiring laws.

And the IRS don´t? That´s really bizarre. All this taxes and deductions should be automatic. It will save a lot of time and effort on the long run.

 

[ToxicAdam]

In response to a question at a town hall in Decorah, Iowa, Monday evening, President Obama said that when Congress returns in September, "I'll be putting forward...a very specific plan to boost the economy, to create jobs and to control our deficit. And my attitude is get it done.

"And if they don't get it done," he continued, "then we'll be running against a Congress that isn't doing anything for the American people and the choice will be very stark and very clear."

Later in the town hall, the president offered more information about the economic plan, when pressed for more details by an attendee.

"What I can do is to present my best ideas about how we move the country forward," the president said. "Many, many of these ideas traditionally have had Republican support. It’s amusing to watch one of the major Republican candidates now trying to wriggle out of the fact that my health care bill is very similar to the health care bill he passed at a time when he, he needed to compromise because he was living in a Democratic-majority state."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...to-boost-economy-and-if-congress-doesnt-.html

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0n3NLgSsAg&feature=player_embedded

Rick Perry's first add

SMH. What´s him marrying his high school sweetheart has anything to do with the presidential campaign?

Learned the values of patriotism
Has faith in God
The son of tenant farmers
Wore the uniform of our country as an airforce captain
Returned to the family farm
Married his high school sweetheart
Started a family



Look at all those credentials I don't give shit about. You say he married his high school sweetheart? He's got my vote!!

You read my mind bro. I did not want to enlist all of them. Marrying his high school sweetheart was especially ridiculous.

 

[Byakuya769]

-SPOILER ALERT-

Spoiler

Obama's plan will be shitty, not pass, and fail at forming a Eco omit wedge issue that is favorable.

 

[A Human Becoming]

In response to a question at a town hall in Decorah, Iowa, Monday evening, President Obama said that when Congress returns in September, "I'll be putting forward...a very specific plan to boost the economy, to create jobs and to control our deficit. And my attitude is get it done.

"And if they don't get it done," he continued, "then we'll be running against a Congress that isn't doing anything for the American people and the choice will be very stark and very clear."

Talks big until he has to bow down to Boehner and McConnell.

 

[Zabka]

Many, many of these ideas traditionally have had Republican support.

Same old Obama.

 

[Veezy]

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1002/hot-air-obama-is-full-of-it-political-poster-1265654097.jpg[IMG]

Talks big words until he has to bow down to Boehner and McConnell.[/QUOTE]
Can I just say, that is one of the worst demotivaional images I've ever seen.

"He ran his campaign on promises he can't keep... he's full of hot air"

If you have to explain the metaphor/joke, there's an issue with the joke, your audience, or both.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Can I just say, that is one of the worst demotivaional images I've ever seen.

"He ran his campaign on promises he can't keep... he's full of hot air"

If you have to explain the metaphor/joke, there's an issue with the joke, your audience, or both.

Don't disagree, I just thought it was a fitting photo seeing my initial reaction to that paragraph ToxicAdam posted was that he "was full of hot air."

 

[Veezy]

Don't disagree, I just thought it was a fitting photo seeing my initial reaction to that paragraph ToxicAdam posted was that he "was full of hot air."

I would have thought a gif of a bull shitting would have been more appropriate.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the left just doesn't go strait up ass hole on the right. Playing nice isn't working. Jesus, find somebody that can explain why this congress doesn't work in 100 words or less, read that shit daily, and drill the point every chance you can.

Obama much have the attention span or memory of a 10 year old if he thinks that this Congress is going to do a damn thing that will make him look halfway decent.

 

[teruterubozu]

I would have thought a gif of a bull shitting would have been more appropriate.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the left just doesn't go strait up ass hole on the right. Playing nice isn't working. Jesus, find somebody that can explain why this congress doesn't work in 100 words or less, read that shit daily, and drill the point every chance you can.

Obama much have the attention span or memory of a 10 year old if he thinks that this Congress is going to do a damn thing that will make him look halfway decent.

Apparently Obama's new "tour" is meant to be his hard stand. Instead he's getting berated by a Tea Partier in Iowa. Seems to be going swimmingly.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Same old Obama.

Don't you get it? They're hypocrites!

The plan has worked so far...

 

[Sinoox]

Ron Paul does not need to do anything to be successful. What he *doesn't* do is just as important. As president, he would be able to veto any bills that passed where corporate influence only needed to convince 50% of the members that it's a good thing.

Do you think it's right that big corporations like pharmaceutical companies only need to find a relatively small number of representatives and senators to vote a certain way instead of those companies convincing the whole population that they should get preferential treatment?

President Paul would force those corporations to work harder to get the 2/3 vote to override the veto. Hopefully there's enough representatives that have principles to follow the voices of people in their districts than listening to the big dollars.

Also as commander-in-chief, he would be able to stop all the wars. If that's all he did, I would be quite happy already.

Not to mention giving him a presidential platform to express his views would induce some major influence all around the board. The media won't be able to censor and distort his message the way they have now.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Well, the good news is that there was a full investigation into Fannie and Freddie and people were fired and made examples of. Then the Democrat-led Congress passed a comprehensive bill that reformed the institutions.

So, even though the regulators fucked up, at least the politicians that had been shielding them from reform for the past decade made up for it in the end.

:.(

 

[A Human Becoming]

I would have thought a gif of a bull shitting would have been more appropriate.

Bullshit was my second thought, but that picture might have got me banned.

 

[teruterubozu]

 

[FLEABttn]

I'm late but I don't care.

When government shrinks and stays that way, businesses have no interest in getting involved in politics.

No, they just get involved in a smaller level, and even then, that doesn't prevent them from working at smaller levels on government at a national level. Company X may not be able to buy themselves into the federal level but that's not to say that they can't or wouldn't buy themselves in a number of states or local governments.

Economy.

Ron Paul predicted the housing bubble and explained why it would burst and even provided steps to avoid the bubble.

President Paul would have a stronger voice with a listening audience to have potentially avoided the crash.

President Paul also would have vetoed the corporate bailout of Wall St where debt and malinvestments of those corporations were bought by the federal government and dumped on the taxpayers.

So did Paul Krugman for the most part. You voting for Paul Krugman? No? Fancy that.

This is the kind of marketplace of ideas that Ron Paul supports. Shouldn't you?

No because I don't need a free market to determine that preventing black people from participating in commerce is a bad thing. The federal government determined that such discrimination was bad before the free market did, so why would I be inclined to listen to the free market over matters of discrimination?

 

[Clevinger]

Obama much have the attention span or memory of a 10 year old if he thinks that this Congress is going to do a damn thing that will make him look halfway decent.

 

[Mardak]

Of course, but they didn't *make* anyone give those loans out.

The law required the loans to be made for sub-prime mortgages.

Fannie and Freddie made those loans because they made more money that way.

But why were they able to make so much money? Why weren't other entities buying up all these risky assets?

I don't disagree that it's insane that they were making so much money and corporate banks were making big money too, but even corporations have a limit to how much risk they're willing to take.

But to them, there was no risk. Someone down the line would always just offload the risk. Banks pass the mortgages on to Freddie/Fannie. These GSEs can then pass it on to the Federal Reserve. And the Federal Reserve has no risk as it prints money.

And even after things crashed, what did the big banks learn? Congress can always be convinced to bail them out.

Again, I don't disagree that there were very greedy people involved and they made lots of money, but if you take a step back there's another player that you didn't point out.

"blame Fannie / Freddie / HUD / minorities / whatever"

The Federal Reserve is very dangerous. Entities like Fannie, Freddie, HUD assisted in creating the bubble; but the Federal Reserve is what started it with low interest rates and allowed greedy corporations to make money with little risk.

 

[speculawyer]

I think it's humorous that some libertarians consider voting for Paul as some sort of ideological stand when Paul himself isn't terribly libertarian.

Yeah, this. He certainly is libertarian on many issues and he touts those a lot. And he is probably the most libertarian of all the people in Congress/senate. But on other issues, he just isn't a libertarian but a lot of people ignore that. Either they don't care or he is the most popular guy they have so they tout him.

 

[Piecake]

The law required the loans to be made for sub-prime mortgages.


But why were they able to make so much money? Why weren't other entities buying up all these risky assets?

Umm, other entities did buy up a ton of those risky assets.

 

[Evlar]

But why were they able to make so much money? Why weren't other entities buying up all these risky assets?

I'm just going to stand back and marvel at this. It's a work of performance art.

 

[Mardak]

Umm, other entities did buy up a ton of those risky assets.

And what did they do with them? Packaged them into CDOs?

 

[Evlar]

And what did they do with them?

They sold them to Countrywide, who was bought by Bank of America for pennies on the dollar, who is now trying to foreclose on hundreds of thousands of homeowners across the country.

Was this a trick question?

 

[speculawyer]

The law required the loans to be made for sub-prime mortgages.

This is one of the craziest conspiracy theories around. I assume you are referring to CERA and only a very small number of institutions were subject to the CERA requirements. The VAST MAJORITY of subprime loans were given out by mortgage brokers that were not subject to CERA. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were FOLLOWERS into the subprime market because they felt they were missing out while Wall Street was making the big money.

CERA existed for some 30+ years . . . it didn't suddenly sink the market. Wall Street did. Some people are just grasping at straws to blame government for everything.

 

[Mike M]

Oh jesus, are we back to blaming the Community Reinvestment Act again?

 

[empty vessel]

The law required the loans to be made for sub-prime mortgages.

Somebody has lied to you. Or you are lying to us. Help us figure out which it is.

 

[Piecake]

And what did they do with them? Packaged them into CDOs?

I really have no idea what you are talking about. Pretty much every mortgage company got into the sub prime mortgage game because they made a ton of money selling the mortgages to banks and other financial institutions.

You make it sound like it was all fannie and freddie and that the government forced them to dole out all those loans and make all of that money, which is absolutely fucking INSANE. Seriously, if you believe that, seek help

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/390/return-to-the-giant-pool-of-money

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/355/the-giant-pool-of-money

Or better yet, just listen to these episodes. You might actually learn something