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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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Snaku

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
"Hey Bob, What's a green economy?" (looks smugly at the other chicken heads)

:|

Y'know, for all the crocodile tears these assholes shed over not wanting to leave their children with all this debt, they don't even attempt to act like they care about the real crisis in store for them.

I don't think they understand what a fossil fuels are, or what goes into making them.
 
traveler said:
My understanding of the matter is that each cut in spending is effectively going to cut down on consumer spending, which will, in turn, cut down on GDP and taxation, leading to an increase in the deficit. So, it seems to me like the whole idea of spending cuts, in this current environment, is pretty counterproductive. (I will point out that the majority of my reading on this matter comes from Krugman, so take my opinion as you will knowing that.)

That's correct. Reductions in government spending slows an economy. As do taxes. What Republicans won't tell you, though, is that the distributions of spending and taxing matter. Spending on the poor (i.e., those who must immediately turn around and spend what they are given) enhances an economy (creates demand) more than spending on the rich (i.e., those who already have what they need to do whatever they want and can just stick the extra money in their bank accounts).

Similarly, tax raises on the rich slow the economy less than tax raises on the poor, if it slows it at all. As Warren Buffet said, higher taxes never dissuaded him from investing. After all, what else is he going to do with the money? And taxes on the rich are currently so low that increases even in this environment probably wouldn't do anything to slow the economy. In fact, it may help, because the government could use that revenue to spend on the poor, and get the money re-circulating in the economy (increase demand). Raising taxes on the bottom half is just stupid. Given America's huge income inequality, there's no money there, and it reduces demand.

As far as businesses go, a business will expand not when it gets money for nothing, but when it gets orders for its services or products (and that notwithstanding whether it has money--it will borrow if it has to).

traveler said:
It indicates that there's enough room in the party for two different platforms, sure, but, given that this split should only exist for the duration of the primary, I still don't see why it's suicide. Would the party not unify after the primary and be just as strong as before? (This seems to be common wisdom that I'm just not getting, so I'm trying to point out specifically why I don't understand it)

I don't think there's anything to understand. You are theoretically correct that it doesn't matter, but in practice it does. It uses resources that would not otherwise be used, and can cause political damage that wouldn't otherwise be caused. As long as we don't have a parliamentary system, I would prefer primary challenges to be the norm, but it's one of the flaws of the two-party system that they aren't.

That's why electoral reform is pretty fundamental to people who want to see change.
 

traveler

Not Wario
I did not consider the fact that it would consume campaign finances that might otherwise be used to bolster the party's position in the race that matters. Thanks for the insight. It makes more sense to me now.

Back to the economic talk, is there a single presidential candidate advocating for further stimulus/spending, specifically targeted so as to make the biggest impact, or is that just political suicide at the moment, with the entire country either convinced or being portrayed as convinced that the deficit is problem number one?
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
He's also a nutcase with incredibly fringe views and lots of ridiculous contradictory positions. He's made hommophobic remarks in a movie, is against gay marriage based on a mental-gymnastics interpretation of States' Rights and doesn't believe in evolution. And published a series of racist newsletters. These are facts. Ron Paul defense force will be along in a second to deny, but not refute them. He's even more fringe than the Tea Party. He only gets a pass because his foreign policy SOUNDS attractive (but would fail miserably in real life) and Ayn Randisms.
And Michelle Bachmann isn't any of those things? Her husband runs an anti-gay clinic, and I'm sure she said a few disparaging remarks about Gays. She regurgitates the same talking points about states rights, and doesn't believe in evolution as well. But the media is fascinated with her because she's bombastic, and Ron Paul isn't. I'm the last guy to defend Ron Paul when it comes to policies. I think his domestic policies are whack. But there's no denying that the media doesn't like him. Spade's a spade, and I have no problems accepting that, despite me being totally against him when it comes to politics. Gary Johnson is also looked over because he doesn't share the main talking-point-view of GOP establishment: Be willing to bomb any country to smithereens. Loonwatch did an excellent write up: Ron Paul's unforgivable sins of opposing America's sacred wars
Paul and Johnson committed the unforgivable crime of opposing war (not just one war, but all of America’s wars), and for this they will be punished. For this, they will never be able to even dream of being considered a Serious presidential nominee, let alone President of the United States. The media’s selection of who is Serious and who is Unserious is all a part of the manufactured consent that Noam Chomksy so eloquently wrote about many years ago.

Think about that for a minute: our country is so absolutely and steadfastly pro-war that there is no room for peaceniks. The Just War theory forbids war except in self-defense. None of America’s many wars fits this description: that’s quite easy to see when we note that our troops are deployed in far away, foreign lands. We’re not defending ourselves from an invader who occupies Southern California or who is stationed in Maine. Even the thought of another nation’s army marching into any U.S. state is completely unthinkable, almost as unrealistic as Martians landing on earth. We have no need to engage in Just War since we are actually very, very safe and secure–our defense is virtually impregnable, such that there is no plausible scenario where our territory could be occupied or our capital advanced upon.
Basically if you oppose wars and are deemed to be any bit defensive on foreign policy, you're not a serious candidate. If you are wee bit critical of Israel, you're not a serious candidate. Etc, etc. Even Jon Stewart called out Mainstream media last night for ignoring Ron Paul like a red headed step child.
Stewart found it bewildering that Rep. Paul had become “the 13th floor of a hotel,” culminating with a clip of a CNN anchor requesting a reporter leave out the Ron Paul reporting if they found any juicy Sarah Palin stuff– saying, in Stewart’s words, “I mean, f*ck that guy, right?”
I do wish he was taken a little bit seriously. I mean, the guy lost Iowa poll by 200 votes. If nothing else, his foreign policy views should be discussed.
 

Puddles

Banned
So, I just had a thought that might be completely stupid, but could be categorized as "hoping for the best."

Many people on this board and among liberal circles believe that Republicans are purposely sabotaging Obama's presidency, which includes the economy, in order to use the weak economy as a campaign issue in 2012.

So my question is: if the Republicans succeed and take the Presidency and the Senate and keep the House, will we see them implement policies that might actually bring down unemployment? If they control both houses of Congress and the White House, and given that Democrats don't strike me as being willing to stonewall and sabotage a Republican government's agenda if said agenda might benefit the country as a whole, won't Republicans be feeling a lot of pressure to own up to their talking points and actually do their best to get us out of this mess?

I'd like to think they would, since voters would kick them right back out in 2016 if they've failed to focus on jobs after slamming Obama on that for four straight years.

However, part of me thinks they'd continue to focus on trickle-up economics and appeasing industries in the hope of getting some sweet board memberships in those industries after they've retired from government.


TL;DR version: Part of me is so exasperated with Republicans that I'm inclined to say "If they want the keys to the car this badly, let's give the assholes a shot behind the wheel," but most of me is terrified at that possibility.
 

Piecake

Member
Puddles said:
So, I just had a thought that might be completely stupid, but could be categorized as "hoping for the best."

Many people on this board and among liberal circles believe that Republicans are purposely sabotaging Obama's presidency, which includes the economy, in order to use the weak economy as a campaign issue in 2012.

So my question is: if the Republicans succeed and take the Presidency and the Senate and keep the House, will we see them implement policies that might actually bring down unemployment? If they control both houses of Congress and the White House, and given that Democrats don't strike me as being willing to stonewall and sabotage a Republican government's agenda if said agenda might benefit the country as a whole, won't Republicans be feeling a lot of pressure to own up to their talking points and actually do their best to get us out of this mess?

I'd like to think they would, since voters would kick them right back out in 2016 if they've failed to focus on jobs after slamming Obama on that for four straight years.

However, part of me thinks they'd continue to focus on trickle-up economics and appeasing industries in the hope of getting some sweet board memberships in those industries after they've retired from government.


TL;DR version: Part of me is so exasperated with Republicans that I'm inclined to say "If they want the keys to the car this badly, let's give the assholes a shot behind the wheel," but most of me is terrified at that possibility.

The only thing that Republicans will do if they gain control of the govt is to try to ram more tax and spending cuts down our throat. They are not going to suddenly become sane and competent just because they rofl stomped the democrats
 
Gonaria said:
The only thing that Republicans will do if they gain control of the govt is to try to ram more tax and spending cuts down our throat. They are not going to suddenly become sane and competent just because they rofl stomped the democrats

Pretty much. None of that will help the economy. Eventually the economy will rebound though, and whoever is in office will get the credit. On the other hand, the deficit will explode even further.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
TacticalFox88 said:
Well, if it keeps the man from sitting in the oval office, more power to 'em
It's stupid, because all they did in the last segment was tie Obama to the Federal Reserve, as if it's his best friend or something.
 

Piecake

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Pretty much. None of that will help the economy. Eventually the economy will rebound though, and whoever is in office will get the credit. On the other hand, the deficit will explode even further.

If they do get control of the govt. It is going to be interesting if they actually practice fiscal responsibility and have a balanced budget (Before anyone harps on me, I agree that there definitely is a place for deficit spending in a recession and govt spending helps a lot to get out of recessions). If not, I wonder how Fox News and the Tea Party will explain away their hypocrisy.
 

Averon

Member
Gonaria said:
If they do get control of the govt. It is going to be interesting if they actually practice fiscal responsibility and have a balanced budget (Before anyone harps on me, I agree that there definitely is a place for deficit spending in a recession and govt spending helps a lot to get out of recessions). If not, I wonder how Fox News and the Tea Party will explain away their hypocrisy.

They won't since they will not be called out on it. And FoxNews will ignore it.
 
Gonaria said:
If not, I wonder how Fox News and the Tea Party will explain away their hypocrisy.

They won't need to, because the media that controls narratives won't require it. This is us against them. And by us I do not mean Democrats and by them I do not mean Republicans.
 

Piecake

Member
empty vessel said:
They won't need to, because the media that controls narratives won't require it. This is us against them. And by us I do not mean Democrats and by them I do not mean Republicans.

Well, if that happens, and no republican congressmen or a significant portion of the republican voters don't ask, wait, I thought debt was a huge deal? WTF IS GOING ON?!?! Then I will lose the last shred of faith/respect that I have in republicans.
 
empty vessel said:
They won't need to, because the media that controls narratives won't require it. This is us against them. And by us I do not mean Democrats and by them I do not mean Republicans.

Exactly, this is good cop bad cop... you can vote for the more sane good cop, but the bad cop is always gonna be around to keep our politics as far right as possible.
 
Snaku said:
Hey guys . . . what is powering the satellite that your Fox News feed is on? Derp derp.

WTF is with the guy saying that it (solar) just doesn't work? Look, you can say it is expensive. It is a bit pricey. Of course it has advantages such as no CO2. No pollution. No radioactive waste. It can be installed right where the power is used such that massive transmission lines are not needed as much. It tracks power demand very well in that it generates the most power right when it is needed most . . . on hot summer days when everyone has the AC blasting.

Aaaaargh . . . and then they start talking about killing the gas tax?!?!

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! YOU DON'T ENCOURAGE THE USE OF A PRODUCT THAT WE IMPORT 2/3s OF!!!

And then the guys says "absolute guarantee" that the price of gas would go down with more drilling. Yeah, apparently the talking head knows more about oil than Texas oil billionaire T Boone Pickens.

Fox News really is poison.
 
A Human Becoming said:
More like bad cop and very bad cop.

true...

It is my opinion that Obama will be re-elected because republicans don't want a functional government and with a black muslim named liberal in the white house, they have all the ammo they need to keep the crazy train going. This keeps the narrative to the right, because instead of progressives attacking Obama for not being tough enough, they will end up voting for him out of fear of Perry or Bachman. Americans either vote for the guy they want to have a beer with (white joe smith) or the guy who promises sanity but really has no plans to enact sanity. So when the guy who people thought was the intellectual progressive hero they have been waiting for ends up not being "tough" enough or having the right leadership abilities, they lose enthusiasm and we get a Bush #3 or something. Then after 4-8 years of heavy infective spending (Iraq war, Homeland Security) from the so called fiscal conservatives and major tax cuts (for everyone, but mostly the wealthy), the democrats can't possibly hope to raise taxes or increase spending because they are stuck with major debt and an aggressive opposition that blocks and ignores any legislation that could be good and would benefit the sitting president.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Souldriver said:
the only thing I get from that, is the question it raises: Why doesn't Fox News / The GOP establishment like Perry?

Karl Rove may work for Fox, but I wouldn't necessarily include him in the 'Fox News' division. The likes of Hannity and Beck (even though he's not there anymore) absolutely love Perry and Tea baggers like him.

And remember, Rove was against Christine O'Donnell too.
 
speculawyer said:
Hey guys . . . what is powering the satellite that your Fox News feed is on? Derp derp.

WTF is with the guy saying that it just doesn't work? Look, you can say it is expensive. It is a bit pricey. Of course it has advantages such as no CO2. No pollution. No radioactive waste. It can be installed right where the power is used such that massive transmission lines are not needed as much. It tracks power demand very well in that it generates the most power right when it is needed most . . . on hot summer days when everyone has the AC blasting.

Aaaaargh . . . and then they start talking about killing the gas tax?!?!

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! YOU DON'T ENCOURAGE THE USE OF A PRODUCT THAT WE IMPORT 2/3s OF!!!

And then the guys says "absolute guarantee" that the price of gas would go down with more drilling. Yeah, apparently the talking head knows more about oil than Texas oil billionaire T Boone Pickens.

Fox News really is poison.
Gas prices would go down if we do more drilling? Do these morons realize that that oil does NOT belong to us?! It's belongs to the global oil supply.
 
speculawyer said:
Hey guys . . . what is powering the satellite that your Fox News feed is on? Derp derp.

WTF is with the guy saying that it just doesn't work? Look, you can say it is expensive. It is a bit pricey. Of course it has advantages such as no CO2. No pollution. No radioactive waste. It can be installed right where the power is used such that massive transmission lines are not needed as much. It tracks power demand very well in that it generates the most power right when it is needed most . . . on hot summer days when everyone has the AC blasting.

Aaaaargh . . . and then they start talking about killing the gas tax?!?!

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! YOU DON'T ENCOURAGE THE USE OF A PRODUCT THAT WE IMPORT 2/3s OF!!!

And then the guys says "absolute guarantee" that the price of gas would go down with more drilling. Yeah, apparently the talking head knows more about oil than Texas oil billionaire T Boone Pickens.

Fox News really is poison.
No you see poison unless given in small doses outright kills the person.

Fox News is more like a severe mental disorder.
 
speculawyer said:
Hey guys . . . what is powering the satellite that your Fox News feed is on? Derp derp.

WTF is with the guy saying that it just doesn't work? Look, you can say it is expensive. It is a bit pricey. Of course it has advantages such as no CO2. No pollution. No radioactive waste. It can be installed right where the power is used such that massive transmission lines are not needed as much. It tracks power demand very well in that it generates the most power right when it is needed most . . . on hot summer days when everyone has the AC blasting.

Aaaaargh . . . and then they start talking about killing the gas tax?!?!

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! YOU DON'T ENCOURAGE THE USE OF A PRODUCT THAT WE IMPORT 2/3s OF!!!

And then the guys says "absolute guarantee" that the price of gas would go down with more drilling. Yeah, apparently the talking head knows more about oil than Texas oil billionaire T Boone Pickens.

Fox News really is poison.

That about covers it. I couldn't even make it halfway through that video without feeling like my computer was in danger of being smashed.
 
Gonaria said:
The only thing that Republicans will do if they gain control of the govt is to try to ram more tax and spending cuts down our throat. They are not going to suddenly become sane and competent just because they rofl stomped the democrats
Actually, this really probably isn't true. If they owned the whole government they would not go totally crazy. They'd be forced to be responsible then. Yes, they would still do stupid fucking things . . . but they would not do a lot of the crazy ass shit they push when they know they can't get it. For example, they would not fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Just look back. The GOP did TARP. Bush signed a stimulus package. They practice Keynesian economics but they just do it differently . . . the do it with defense spending and tax cuts. The whole Medicare Part D thing was a GOP program.

The full blown crazy seems come out more when they are in the minority.
 

Wes

venison crêpe
Am I right in thinking that all these articles about Ron Paul being ignored are just piggybacking off the Daily Show segment last night? Has there been any articles about this in the so called mainstream press?
 

Piecake

Member
speculawyer said:
Actually, this really probably isn't true. If they owned the whole government they would not go totally crazy. They'd be forced to be responsible then. Yes, they would still do stupid fucking things . . . but they would not do a lot of the crazy ass shit they push when they know they can't get it. For example, they would not fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Just look back. The GOP did TARP. Bush signed a stimulus package. They practice Keynesian economics but they just do it differently . . . the do it with defense spending and tax cuts. The whole Medicare Part D thing was a GOP program.

The full blown crazy seems come out more when they are in the minority.

Eh, I would call Bush's economic policy pretty fucking crazy. Personally, I would take a low tax low spend balance budget govt over a have your cake and eat it too govt every time. Of course, I have yet to see a low tax low spend govt from republicans, so we will probably be stuck with a govt that gives out massive tax cuts to the rich while going on a spending spree
 

Puddles

Banned
speculawyer said:
Actually, this really probably isn't true. If they owned the whole government they would not go totally crazy. They'd be forced to be responsible then. Yes, they would still do stupid fucking things . . . but they would not do a lot of the crazy ass shit they push when they know they can't get it. For example, they would not fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Just look back. The GOP did TARP. Bush signed a stimulus package. They practice Keynesian economics but they just do it differently . . . the do it with defense spending and tax cuts. The whole Medicare Part D thing was a GOP program.

The full blown crazy seems come out more when they are in the minority.

Taking them out of the majority effectively casts berserk on their party.
 

Puddles

Banned
Holy fuck, there are a lot of goddamn short-bus kids over on the gaming side posting in that "would you be in favor of a law banning region-locking?" thread.
 
So Whole Foods was shouted down by bigots for carrying Halal food items
Here's what happened:

In a July 27th post on the official Whole Foods blog, a writer for the blog My Halal Kitchen talked up the store's selection of products from Saffron Road, a company that makes Halal frozen food products, and encouraged readers to check them out when preparing for Ramadan. There was no plan to market the partnership between Saffron Road and Whole Foods in stores, according to Fast Company reporter Neal Ungerleider, who initially wrote about the promotion.

But never ones to overlook Sharia creep into the food supply, a few right-wing bloggers picked up the story and blasted Whole Foods for promoting Islam.
Here's the vilest of remarks:
On July 29, anti-Islam blogger and commentator Debbie Schlussel called Whole Foods "anti-Israel" and accused it of "whoring itself out to Islam for profits." Schlussel continued:

Here's a tip, Whole Foods: there is NOTHING "cosmopolitan" about Islam. In fact, Islam is the antonym to cosmopolitan. Retro is in. Retro back to the year 622 and the values of savages will NEVER be in.

Whole Foods . . . For the Organically Conscious Jihadist. Way more humane because, hey, "free range chickens" can run away from the IED. allahu natural fruitbar.
......
...Do you ever reach a point in your life where you just run out of ways expressing disbelief over what is happening to this country...?
:(
 

Averon

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Im considering throwing in the towel with Poli-gaf... love you guys but this thread leaves me nothing but depressed these days.

Don't blame you. I fear PoliGAF in 2012 will be a unbearable if that reaction to that Rick Perry ad is any indication.
 
Karma Kramer said:
Im considering throwing in the towel with Poli-gaf... love you guys but this thread leaves me nothing but depressed these days.

Welcome to the party. I used to post a lot in this thread, and kept up on economic and international politics. Now I rarely post here. Just fed up with how polarized politics has become lately. Don't really give a fuck anymore.
 
Its like I am filling my brain with horse shit which could be useful if I had a platform that reached people, but at the moment i'm just filling it up with shit and the flush doesn't work anymore :(
 

Hootie

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Im considering throwing in the towel with Poli-gaf... love you guys but this thread leaves me nothing but depressed these days.

1zdwwh2.jpg

America...I am disappoint...

Things seem so much different from the 2008 election. I know the 2012 campaigns have barely even begun, but there's almost no chance for something genuinely good to come from this election.
 

besada

Banned
RustyNails said:
...Do you ever reach a point in your life where you just run out of ways expressing disbelief over what is happening to this country...?
:(
Somewhere around 1986. The only solution is to start joking about it. Everything else will either give you a stroke or get you out in jail.
 
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