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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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Technically it's not a flip flop. His initial statement was that global warming exists, must be dealt with, and humans contributed to it. His latest statement is that global warming exists, he's not willing to spend trillions to address it - not that he's unwilling to address it, and he doesn't know how much humans have contributed to it.

Nowhere does he say global warming doesn't exist, nothing needs to be done, or humans don't contribute to it
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
empty vessel said:
That's the power of political organization. A lot of time but especially money went into creating it. (More authentic movements will require mostly time, but the tea party was built from above.)


In your opinion when do you think this started to change? Or was always sorta this way?
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
PhoenixDark said:
Technically it's not a flip flop. His initial statement was that global warming exists, must be dealt with, and humans contributed to it. His latest statement is that global warming exists, he's not willing to spend trillions to address it - not that he's unwilling to address it, and he doesn't know how much humans have contributed to it.

Nowhere does he say global warming doesn't exist, nothing needs to be done, or humans don't contribute to it
"Do I think the world's getting hotter? Yeah, I don't know that but I think that it is," Romney told a crowd in New Hampshire Wednesday, according to Reuters. "I don't know if it's mostly caused by humans."
"It's important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may be significant contributors," Romney said at another New Hampshire stop in early June.

"I believe the world is getting warmer, and I believe that humans have contributed to that," Romney said at the event.
???????@!?!?!
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
PhoenixDark said:
"Mostly" suggests causation lies somewhere else as well. He didn't say humans have no contribution.
Heh, you know very well that his statements were both calculated and that the latter is him trying to distance himself as far away from the "humans are causing global warming" idea as possible because he's trying to pander to a certain group.

As an aside, you have an odd habit of giving GOP politicians the benefit of the doubt.
 
reilo said:
Heh, you know very well that his statements were both calculated and that the latter is him trying to distance himself as far away from the "humans are causing global warming" idea as possible because he's trying to pander to a certain group.

As an aside, you have an odd habit of giving GOP politicians the benefit of the doubt.

He's pandering but he's not contradicting himself. Until Romney comes out and says humans contribute nothing to global warming, it won't be a flip flop. It's no doubt him trying to get around the flank Perry has to his right without being seen as being anti-science.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Hold on dude. No way that's true. I don't know the science behind that, but it just sounds off.

I'm not saying without a doubt that it is... but I am suspicious. If you fracture the ground too close to a fault line, it can trigger a quake. And Colorado has a history of having issues with drilling creating small quakes.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/colorado/history.php

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/13/fracking.explainer/index.html

So it's not impossible that they triggered it.

Reference:
Where the quake hit.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US10/32.42.-110.-100.php

Where there is fracking in the area.
http://tpzoo.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/map.jpg
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
East Coast refineries likely to shutdown as Hurricane Irene approaches; gasoline prices rise
By Associated Press, Updated: Thursday, August 25, 5:26 PM




Irene_074bc.jpg





East Coast refineries are likely to close in advance of Hurricane Irene’s arrival this weekend, analysts say. The shutdowns are already boosting gasoline prices. The storm pounded the Bahamas Thursday with winds of 115 mph and it could reach East Coast refineries, which are concentrated in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, by Sunday afternoon.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has signed a state of emergency in advance of Hurricane Irene. The declaration clears the way for the state to deploy the National Guard. (Aug. 25) Residents and tourists in Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina were packing up and getting ready as Hurricane Irene churned towards the eastern U.S. (Aug. 25) Refineries are already starting to turn off equipment and tie things down. “Even if the storm eventually misses them, they can’t take chances,” says Ben Brockwell at the Oil Price Information Service, which monitors fuel shipments around the country.

Refineries are sprawling complexes of concrete and steel that turn oil into gasoline, diesel and other kinds of fuels. While the main buildings are designed to withstand hurricane-force winds and earthquakes, some of their pipes, cooling towers and power lines are susceptible to wind damage. Utilities are expecting widespread power outages from winds and downed trees.

It takes several days for a refinery to start operating again following a shutdown. And many would need almost a month to get back to full operation. Tom Bentz, an analyst at BNP Paribas Commodity Futures, said traders are betting that supplies may be squeezed.

“There’s the potential for certainly coastal flooding, potential for refinery outages, potential for shipping delays, things like that,” Bentz says. Drivers should also see pump prices rise this weekend as Irene approaches. People are now paying anywhere from $3.37 a gallon in South Carolina to $3.91 in Connecticut. The national average is down 40 cents from its peak of $3.98 on May 5. But it’s still 87 cents higher than at this time last year.

Shutdowns of more than a few days would put serious pressure on fuel supplies and prices. Fuel stockpiles are already low because distributors are preparing to switch to wintertime grades of gas. Sale of those grades starts in September. “Anything longer than a few days could be a problem,” Brockwell says.

Three years ago, pump prices jumped 21 cents a gallon in just eight days as Hurricane Ike swept through the Gulf of Mexico and made landfall at Galveston, Texas.

East Coast refineries are located in Virginia, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They account for 7 percent of the nation’s refining capability, producing more than 19 million gallons of gasoline and diesel a day, according to the Energy Information Administration. Other refining hubs are located along the U.S. Gulf and West coasts.

Refinery operators must decide about 72 hours before a hurricane hits whether to go into what is called “cold shutdown.” Furnaces are turned off and fluids are drained from the refining vessels and into storage tanks.

Jeff Hazel, the senior director for refining technology at the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association says refiners are most concerned about losing power due to high winds.

Refineries typically generate some power on site, but they almost all rely also on offsite power. If there is an outage, refiners can’t continue to operate, and they can’t drain their refining equipment as completely or safely because pumps don’t have power.

If flooding is expected, storage tanks that are nearly empty must be at least partially filled with fuel. Empty tanks can more easily float off of their foundations.

If only moderate winds are expected, the refinery can throttle back production. When a refinery is running at less than full capacity, it is easier for the crew to manage problems that may arise during the storm. When the plant is shut down, all refinery personnel are evacuated except for a small crew.

There are eight east coast refineries: PBF Energy Partners’ plant in Delaware City, Del. and Paulsboro, N.J.; ConocoPhillips’ plants in Linden, N.J. and Trainer, Penn.; Hess Corp.’s Port Reading plant; United Refining in Warren, Penn.; and Sunoco’s refineries in Marcus Hook and Philadelphia, Penn.


############

Gotdamn it! And gas was coming down in my area too. I just got gas for $3.27 yesterday.
 
reilo said:
???????@!?!?!
Global warming is an issue you can effectively tip toe around. You can tell you believe in it to one crowd and tell you don't believe it to another crowd. If called out by media or someone, just preface your answer with "Well you know this is an on-going scientific debate. The truth is we don't know for sure", and then bullshit your way through.
 
reilo said:
Heh, you know very well that his statements were both calculated and that the latter is him trying to distance himself as far away from the "humans are causing global warming" idea as possible because he's trying to pander to a certain group.

As an aside, you have an odd habit of giving GOP politicians the benefit of the doubt.

I was going to point that out.
 
besada said:
GOP primary voters tend to be more conservative than the whole of the GOP. That's going to be particularly true this season, where the Tea Party is more enrgized than the moderate wing of the GOP.
Yeah, me and my entire family did a what the fuck when Pat Buchanan won New Hampshire that one year. Then you realize exactly what you pointed out, then again even with that it was still, the hell just happened. Lol
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
A Romney aide from a month ago.

“The fact that he doesn’t change his position . . . that’s the upside for us,” said one Romney adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on behalf of the campaign. “He’s not going to change his mind on these issues to put his finger in the wind for what scores points with these parts of the party.”

lol
 
Oblivion said:
A Romney aide from a month ago.



lol
Flip flops can destroy campaigns, but the need to be on record. Like for example John Kerry's vote for authorization of Iraq War. If Romney has a global warming-related piece of legislation he signed as a governor of MA, then that could stick.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
RustyNails said:
Flip flops can destroy campaigns, but the need to be on record. Like for example John Kerry's vote for authorization of Iraq War. If Romney has a global warming-related piece of legislation he signed as a governor of MA, then that could stick.
flip flop attacks are fucking retarded the attacks pn kerry weren't for trying to score points but for changing his stance (regardless of what his stance became). frighteningly it worked.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I'm not sure flip-flopping carries that much weight in the Republican party. McCain, GWB and Bush Sr. were all able to overcome some pretty big obstacles in that regard. Electability and name recognition still trumps all.


But maybe in this new era of tea party politics, that will change.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Here's a question that some guy mentioned that really made me think.

If the Dems kept the house, regardless of how big the margin was, while still taking the same losses in the senate as they currently have, would things be any different from what they are now?
 
When I started following American politics with the Gore/Bush election and later the Kerry/Bush election, I always thought that those "flip flop" accusations were the lamest fucking thing to bitch about. I always thought to myself: can't politicians change stances on anything or what? "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water."

It's only later on that I realized that the flip flopping issue actually is a big one in the US, because it happens very often just to pander to as big an audience as possible. Lowest common denominator and such.

If it's however about how a candidate's vote on an issue 20 years ago is different from his opinion on that issue now, and the man/woman even explains the change of mind, I find the flip-flop accusations very petty. And by all means, that should backfire. But it rarely does.
 

besada

Banned
New polling data to stir the sleeping beast:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/26/gop-primary-election-2012_n_937686.html
Just 12 percent of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents have a negative impression of the Texas governor. And 63 percent of Republicans view him in a positive light, compared with 33 percent in June.

Beyond that, Republicans didn't change their impressions much about Romney. Nearly 2 in 3 still view the former Massachusetts governor positively, while just under a quarter view him negatively as he runs a cautious, methodical campaign that's facing its first true test in Perry.

Bachmann, the Minnesota congresswoman who won the Iowa straw poll, got roughly the same marks as Romney now that she's boosted her national profile. Both her positive and negative ratings rose in the two months since she entered the contest and started to become better known.
My favorite bit:
Huntsman's negative rankings crept upward during the first few months of his campaign, and he was the only GOP candidate viewed unfavorably by as many Republicans as view him positively
They do not like you, Huntsman.

Speaking of not being liked:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...mas-leadership-ratings-also-drops.php?ref=fpb
Pew: Majority Find GOP Unfavorable, But Obama’s Leadership Ratings Also Drop
The poll shows problems for the GOP in two ways. First, the GOP has seen a more severe fall in its rating after the debt fight, as its approval now sits at 34 percent against 59 percent disapproval, a large shift from the closer split that Republicans had the first month they controlled the House: 43 - 48 in February. The Democratic Party had a slim positive rating in February of 47 - 46, but has also slipped in all the Washington brinkmanship, to 43 - 50.

Secondly, the approval of GOP leaders by Americans has slipped to 22 percent, with 69 percent disapproval. "Ratings for GOP leaders have fallen sharply among the Republican base - and the change has been particularly dramatic among Republicans and Republican leaning-independents who agree with the Tea Party," the Pew report reads. "Among all Republicans, 46% now approve of the job performance of Republican leaders, down 23 points from January."
No one likes Obama much, either.

Edit: Oh, and Pataki isn't running.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...against-mounting-enigmatic-wh-bid.php?ref=fpb
 
besada said:
My favorite bit:

Quote:
Huntsman's negative rankings crept upward during the first few months of his campaign, and he was the only GOP candidate viewed unfavorably by as many Republicans as view him positively

They do not like you, Huntsman.
Well . . . he came out and said he believes in evolution and trusts scientists on climate change. He exhibited rationality and that must be punished.
 

besada

Banned
http://www.propublica.org/blog/item...bles-to-help-homeowners-billions-left-unspent
One place they won't be looking: an estimated $30 billion from the bailout that was slated to help homeowners but is likely to remain unspent.

Instead, Congress has mandated that the leftover money be used to pay down the debt.

Of the $45.6 billion in Trouble Asset Relief Program funds meant to aid homeowners, the most recent numbers available show that only about $2 billion has actually gone out the door.

Nice. TARP has been such an astonishing failure.
 
OMG. There's this hot ass British blonde chick that was on Dylan Ratigan's roundtable a few days ago. I forget her name, but I want to suck on her boobies.

EDIT- Imogen Lloyd Webber
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Just 12 percent of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents have a negative impression of the Texas governor. And 63 percent of Republicans view him in a positive light, compared with 33 percent in June.
That jump is just him hitting the national stage. Most Republicans didn't have a positive or negative view of him before.
 

besada

Banned
Dan said:
That jump is just him hitting the national stage. Most Republicans didn't have a positive or negative view of him before.

Yes, but after a couple of weeks of what many in here considered gaffes, he's got a 63% approval rating. That suggests those "gaffes" played well to the Republican base.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
OMG. There's this hot ass British blonde chick that was on Dylan Ratigan's roundtable a few days ago. I forget her name, but I want to suck on her boobies.

EDIT- Imogen Lloyd Webber

The only good thing Andrew Lloyd Webber has ever done.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
ToxicAdam said:
Market cares about the future, not the past.

I thought it was the news of the new likely Quantitative Easing.

Can anyone explain how the fuck that works?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Suikoguy said:
I thought it was the news of the new likely Quantitative Easing.

Can anyone explain how the fuck that works?


Huh? I saw a blurb on CNN that stated that Bernanke said "no more stimulus". Maybe the headline was wrong.
 
The fact that these GOP idiots think a federal ban on gay marriage is a popular position in 2012 is hilarious.

They were on the wrong side of history ten years ago, theyre just painting themselves as fundamentalists ludites for 2012.

And the whole small government = federal intrusion into the bedroom doesnt play well anywhere. Even those that are against gay marriage are weary about someone who says he will pick a supreme court justice that explicitly to ban gay marriage.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
besada said:
I probably should have specified that I was talking about the homeowner preservation features of TARP.

Yeah you are dead right about that. Horrible job.
 

mysterj

Neo Member
Suikoguy said:
I thought it was the news of the new likely Quantitative Easing.

Can anyone explain how the fuck that works?

QE is like when Fed reserve lend money into cooperates/banks with little or no interest. Or buying up their stock shares. The funds used this way are electronically generated. Is often compared to printing money but there are differences.
 

besada

Banned
Bernie Sanders says "Hi!" oil speculators:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/202...es-sanders-bernie-sanders-cftc-cars-autos.htm
Sanders, a critic of oil speculators (to say the least), leaked confidential Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) information on the extensive positions in oil futures held by various financial industry institutions in the run-up to record high oil prices in 2008, and he's arguing the CFTC should have both intervened to check the excess, and also should have released the information on speculators.

The leaked info:
http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/energy-holdings-WTI-Crude-Oil.pdf (PDF)

His letter to the CFTC:
http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Dear Chairman Gensler1.pdf (PDF)
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is the dumbest thing in the article.


Further, oil futures traders would argue that members of Congress and other critics are overlooking the benefit of the currently-configured oil futures market: despite geopolitical risk and civil unrest in/near several key, oil producing regions, and despite the rise in the demand for crude oil in developing economies, there hasn't been an oil shortage or a disruption in oil's supply in the key oil consuming markets of the world.

UGH! Really?
 

Ecotic

Member
Does anyone at MSNBC show up for work anymore? Joe Scarborough normally shows up for work only half of the time, and often misses the first hour of his show anyway. But now after an eon of Joe's absence his literal third-string co-host Willie Geist had to be replaced today. Chris Cillizza has replaced Chuck Todd for a while. Chris Matthews hasn't hosted a show at any time this month that I've tuned in, and is again absent today. I guess the network has given everyone the month off for vacation.
 

Krowley

Member
Ecotic said:
Does anyone at MSNBC show up for work anymore? Joe Scarborough normally shows up for work only half of the time, and often misses the first hour of his show anyway. But now after an eon of Joe's absence his literal third-string co-host Willie Geist had to be replaced today. Chris Cillizza has replaced Chuck Todd for a while. Chris Matthews hasn't hosted a show at any time this month that I've tuned in, and is again absent today. I guess the network has given everyone the month off for vacation.


I've been noticing the same thing lately. It's pretty unprofessional IMO. It seems like everybody is always on vacation on this channel.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
besada said:
"This report clearly shows that in the summer of 2008 when gas prices spiked to more than $4 a gallon, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and other speculators on Wall Street dominated the crude oil futures market causing tremendous damage to the entire economy," Sanders said, in a statement. "The CFTC has kept this information hidden from the American public for nearly three years. That is an outrage."

*Applauds*

Keep fighting the good fight, Bernie.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Krowley said:
I've been noticing the same thing lately. It's pretty unprofessional IMO. It seems like everybody is always on vacation on this channel.


More than likely it's for the same reason that Bill Maher is off for the month. NOTHING happens in August when it comes to poltics.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) has another potential challenger — this time in the Democratic primary. Special-education teacher Anthony Prowell has filed to run for the seat, saying he was planning to challenge the Blue Dog Democrat before she was shot in the head at a local event this January. Party officials, Prowell says, are not at all happy about his bid.

...
 
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