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[eznark]

I suspect we're going to see them roll the offer back pretty fast. Red State's already got a call for burning Mitch McConnell in effigy (and a request to send him weasels via the mail) and the Freepers are comparing the House GOP to the French.

More details on McConnell's last moments as a force in the GOP:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/271706/more-contingency-plan-rich-lowry

(You have to admit, though, this is Grade-A election season crazy we're getting here.)

GaimeGuy is going to hate me (more) but this is why I follow politics. Screw you True Believers, this shit is entertaining!

Mitch McConnell is the worst type of politician.

I don't think Americans consider raising the debt limit a primary concern when it comes to the economy. Don't see how McConnell thinks this will actually benefit the GOP if they allow the debt limit to be raised so they can blame it all on Obama.

It effectively puts the debt (and tangentially the economy) onto one person (Barry) as he'll have what amounts to sole control of a specific aspect. That's really all it would take to paint the picture.

 

[besada]

I don't think Americans consider raising the debt limit a primary concern when it comes to the economy. Don't see how McConnell thinks this will actually benefit the GOP if they allow the debt limit to be raised so they can blame it all on Obama.

It defuses the image of a recalcitrant Republican Congress. They can say, "Hey, we let him do it over our serious objections, because we cared too much to default and endanger everyone."

In addition, if the economy is still a wreck in the months leading up to the election, they'll beat the drum loudly that the increase in the debt ceiling is the reason, and point angrily at Obama, who has now taken personal responsibility for the act.

GaimeGuy is going to hate me (more) but this is why I follow politics. Screw you True Believers, this shit is entertaining!

Once he's older he'll learn that if you don't laugh about it you fly planes into buildings over it. I have a set of pretty serious political principles, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the spectacle. Of course, I'm from Texas, where the Lege has fistfights while the Kilgore Rangerettes high-kick in the background, where we had Husband and Wife Governors that we called Ma and Pa, and where we ran an Atheist Jew musician with a fro, who loves to smoke pot, for Governor. I think it just comes naturally down here.

 

[gcubed]

I suspect we're going to see them roll the offer back pretty fast. Red State's already got a call for burning Mitch McConnell in effigy (and a request to send him weasels via the mail) and the Freepers are comparing the House GOP to the French.

More details on McConnell's last moments as a force in the GOP:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/271706/more-contingency-plan-rich-lowry

(You have to admit, though, this is Grade-A election season crazy we're getting here.)

love the comments

 

[Clevinger]

It's a tactic that screams "we want the economy to keep being shitty for 14 more months" and it's fucking gross.

This isn't the same as the standard, "hey, we benefit from a bad economy so whatev's" stance the GOP has taken to this point. This is a "we know what your doing is wrong but we'll let you do it anyway so that you fuck people over so badly we'll gain power."

Disgusting.

Wait, what's continuing to ruin the economy that Republicans won't fix, exactly?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I don't think Americans consider raising the debt limit a primary concern when it comes to the economy. Don't see how McConnell thinks this will actually benefit the GOP if they allow the debt limit to be raised so they can blame it all on Obama.

I really think this is one of those essential moments when what most people think does not matter a whit. This is how the Republicans are getting away with saying that agreeing to raise the debt ceiling is their grand concession. It has to be done. Disagreeing with it is not legitimate. This whole affair is absolutely idiotic.

 

[eznark]

Wait, what's continuing to ruin the economy that Republicans won't fix, exactly?

You're missing my point. McConnel has ideological beliefs that he is fighting for (lets pretend) because he thinks they are important to improve the economy. He is willing to piss those away and go with something he believes is bad for the country just because he thinks it will score him political points. Not only that, he is apparently actively pursuing this course of action.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Yet we all know as false a threat as the republicans NOT raising the debt limit. If Obama is going to try and play the "we need $2T in taxes for a deal or else we're not sending checks" he's going to lose that in court of public opinion every day of the week.

Dude you really need to get your facts straight. If we don't raise the ceiling, then the government can't make payments to 45% of its vendors which include SS recipients. Should he not notify seniors that their checks might not be coming so they can start hordering now? Also, it's the Republican party that is holding this thing up. The deals they have received have only been sweeter and sweeter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-white-houses-hidden-concession-on-taxes/2011/07/11/gIQAEQshAI_blog.html The Republicans done goofed if they are conceding Congressional authority on the purse of the United States. Obama gets to raise the debt? Obama gets to decide the cuts later for how much is raised? This sounds really unconstitutional, but par for the course when it comes to Republican congressional leadership and the executive branch.

 

[Oblivion]

I normally just ignore these sorts of plugs, but I thought I'd give you a chance... and then I read your first sentence:

Lovely. Stopped reading there.

When the hell did liberals start acting politically correct?

 

[jamesinclair]

This is the same GOP that proposed making the House bill law if the Senate didnt agree.

 

[besada]

You're missing my point. McConnel has ideological beliefs that he is fighting for (lets pretend) because he thinks they are important to improve the economy. He is willing to piss those away and go with something he believes is bad for the country just because he thinks it will score him political points. Not only that, he is apparently actively pursuing this course of action.

Not only that, they're literally offering up their primary responsibility -- control of the purse -- to Executive demand. It's an astonishingly bad precedent to set.

But also hilarious. It really is a Pontius Pilate move. I can't believe it will exist for more than a few hours, at which point they'll claim it wasn't a real plan. Or that McConnell was high on crack. Or something like that.

They did this to themselves two years ago by allowing the Tea Party to run amok in the tent. Once you've agreed to all their ridiculous demands, it becomes impossible to effectively govern. When they were out of power, they needed the Tea Party to regain it, but they weren't successful in shutting their own idiots up, and now, no matter what they do, they're boned. If they allow a debt limit increase, the Tea Party will skin them alive, and if they don't, their corporate masters will defund them.

I'm giggling a little bit.

 

[eznark]

Once he's older he'll learn that if you don't laugh about it you fly planes into buildings over it. I have a set of pretty serious political principles, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the spectacle. Of course, I'm from Texas, where the Lege has fistfights while the Kilgore Rangerettes high-kick in the background, where we had Husband and Wife Governors that we called Ma and Pa, and where we ran an Atheist Jew musician with a fro, who loves to smoke pot, for Governor. I think it just comes naturally down here.

I wish I could have been part of the 13% that voted for the esteemed Kinky Friedman.

They did this to themselves two years ago by allowing the Tea Party to run amok in the tent.

You can't really blame McConnell for that. He was ferociously opposed to all tea partiers, especially Rand.

I might make a little trip to McConnell's office this weekend.

 

[worldrunover]

You're missing my point. McConnel has ideological beliefs that he is fighting for (lets pretend) because he thinks they are important to improve the economy. He is willing to piss those away and go with something he believes is bad for the country just because he thinks it will score him political points. Not only that, he is apparently actively pursuing this course of action.

He's pretty much said this on numerous occassions. Didn't he say his main goal after the 2010 elections was to make Obama a one term president? He's just keeping his promise.

 

[besada]

I wish I could have been part of the 13% that voted for the esteemed Kinky Friedman.

Well, chatting on the internet with someone who was will have to do for you. I even donated, via the purchase of a Kinky Friedman talking doll and some bumperstickers.

You can't really blame McConnell for that. He was ferociously opposed to all tea partiers, especially Rand.

True, because he knew he was the rubber the road was going to meet when it all came crashing down.

 

[Incognito]

shrewd move by mcconnell.

Once he's older he'll learn that if you don't laugh about it you fly planes into buildings over it. I have a set of pretty serious political principles, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the spectacle. Of course, I'm from Texas, where the Lege has fistfights while the Kilgore Rangerettes high-kick in the background, where we had Husband and Wife Governors that we called Ma and Pa, and where we ran an Atheist Jew musician with a fro, who loves to smoke pot, for Governor. I think it just comes naturally down here.

word.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I suspect we're going to see them roll the offer back pretty fast. Red State's already got a call for burning Mitch McConnell in effigy (and a request to send him weasels via the mail) and the Freepers are comparing the House GOP to the French.

It is Bastille Day Thursday.

You're missing my point. McConnel has ideological beliefs that he is fighting for (lets pretend) because he thinks they are important to improve the economy. He is willing to piss those away and go with something he believes is bad for the country just because he thinks it will score him political points. Not only that, he is apparently actively pursuing this course of action.

Yeah. There is no way the Republican base will go for this. They concede authority to Obama. That will only piss them off. Hell, they went crazy over czar that have been around for 30 years. Imagine if Obama appoints a debt czar. Congress needs to do its job and take hard votes. Too much pointing the fingers. If you don't want to look bad, then come up with a deal that makes everyone look bad.

 

[eznark]

He's pretty much said this on numerous occassions. Didn't he say his main goal after the 2010 elections was to make Obama a one term president? He's just keeping his promise.

This is completely different.

I donated by buying a bunch of his music. And a t-shirt. And watching his sweet TV show.

 

[worldrunover]

This is completely different.

I donated by buying a bunch of his music. And a t-shirt. And watching his sweet TV show.

How so? Wanting the economy to tank would ultimately lead to Obama being ousted (most likely). Seems like it's right in line with that goal.

 

[besada]

I donated by buying a bunch of his music. And a t-shirt. And watching his sweet TV show.

Hmm...time for an avatar change?

 

[PantherLotus]

I'm going with one of two options:

1) we didn't really hear the entire thing which includes the part about how the GOP would prefer to destroy the country

2) hehe

 

[eznark]

How so? Wanting the economy to tank would ultimately lead to Obama being ousted (most likely). Seems like it's right in line with that goal.

Not minding if the economy tanks is different than actively pursuing actions that you think will make the economy tank.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Not only that, they're literally offering up their primary responsibility -- control of the purse -- to Executive demand. It's an astonishingly bad precedent to set.

But also hilarious. It really is a Pontius Pilate move. I can't believe it will exist for more than a few hours, at which point they'll claim it wasn't a real plan. Or that McConnell was high on crack. Or something like that.

They did this to themselves two years ago by allowing the Tea Party to run amok in the tent. Once you've agreed to all their ridiculous demands, it becomes impossible to effectively govern. When they were out of power, they needed the Tea Party to regain it, but they weren't successful in shutting their own idiots up, and now, no matter what they do, they're boned. If they allow a debt limit increase, the Tea Party will skin them alive, and if they don't, their corporate masters will defund them.

I'm giggling a little bit.

Sounds like the line item veto that Clinton got. And that was challenged by local and private institutions and was ruled unconstitutional.

 

[Clevinger]

But also hilarious. It really is a Pontius Pilate move.

 

[Evlar]

What's better than kabuki theater? Even more kabuki theater!

The plan would require Congress to pass a bill allowing Obama to raise the debt limit on his own contingent on him taking a series of steps: Obama would have to notify Congress of his intent tor raise the debt limit -- a high-sign to Congress that would be subject to an official censure known as a "resolution of disapproval," and which Obama could veto. If he vetoed the resolution, and if Congress sustained the veto, then Obama would also have to outline a series of hypothetical spending cuts he'd make, equal to the amount of new debt authority he gives himself.

Bolding all of the words referring to useless bullshit paperwork created by this plan.

 

[besada]

Yeah, that's where I got the reference from. The comments sections there and at the National Review are pretty much required reading for the schadenfreude crowd.

 

[Averon]

Is what McConnell suggesting even constitutional? Abdicating such a level of control to the WH will surely trigger lawsuits.

 

[Incognito]

a commentator at NR seems to understand what's happening:

GOP knows they are painted into a caroner.

If the Govt defaults, they will get the blame. Walking away from the table to protect millionaire tax breaks during 9.2 unemployment is a stinker.

If they do a grand bargain with tax revenue, the nation as whole will approve and Congress's overall approval numbers will go up. But the GOP house members will be primaried and the tea partiers rooting for financial default will be angered.

McConnell knows all of this. Either option is bad for the GOP.

 

[Evlar]

Sounds like the line item veto that Clinton got. And that was challenged by local and private institutions and was ruled unconstitutional.

Yeah, but this isn't exactly budgetary authority... it's "debt limit" authority, and hell if I know what Constitutional powers the debt ceiling rests on. Congress has the power of the purse; they exercise it by passing various and sundry budgetary bills every year; the debt ceiling appears to be an attempt to undermine the very spending authority Congress exercises when it debates and passes those bills.

I guess one possible bright side to the McConnell proposal is it may be a pathway to ruling the debt ceiling unconstitutional without panicking the market (since the market will be reassured that, whatever happens, the nation won't default... if it's constitutional the White House will just continue to jump through McConnell's Hoops of Flaming Bullshit, and if it isn't constitutional then the crisis vanishes in a puff of jurisprudence.)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I thought the very concept of a debt ceiling was borderline un-Constitutional

 

[Suikoguy]

wow @ this recent turn of events.

Basically, the shit that got the GOP elected last election, has come back to bite them in the ass.

McConnell's Hoops of Flaming Bullshit

Just wanted to pull that quote out

 

[Invisible_Insane]

When the hell did liberals start acting politically correct?

Using transsexual as a pejorative makes you an asshole, it's pretty simple.

wow @ this recent turn of events.

Basically, the shit that got the GOP elected last election, has come back to bite them in the ass.

Not just them. All of us.

 

[eznark]

No chance. Zero.

But his plan would require a bill to be passed in both the House and Senate in the next two weeks, something that likely faces long odds

phew

 

[Incognito]

A Senate GOP aide tells @jonward11 that the "McConnell plan is a full surrender, white flag approach"

good shit

 

[HylianTom]

They're positively apoplectic over at FreeRepublic right now. Incredible. Delicious.

Kinda makes me wish that we'd see an Obama-Romney-TeaPartyCandidate election.

 

[Suikoguy]

Not just them. All of us.

In regards to the epic waste of time this caused for the country and the house and senate. Certainly. But this is the first I've seen of them caving since this whole "Flaming Hoops of Bullshit" started. And it's going to hurt the GOP more, because the 'movement' that helped elect them have turned into more a liability then a help.

 

[mckmas8808]

Is what McConnell suggesting even constitutional? Abdicating such a level of control to the WH will surely trigger lawsuits.

Maybe that's the point? Maybe McConnell thinks that Obama will get hit politically for signing an unconstitutional bill.

 

[Zero Hero]

They're positively apoplectic over at FreeRepublic right now. Incredible. Delicious.

Kinda makes me wish that we'd see an Obama-Romney-TeaPartyCandidate election.

There is a reason they are called suckers.

 

[mckmas8808]

They're positively apoplectic over at FreeRepublic right now. Incredible. Delicious.

Kinda makes me wish that we'd see an Obama-Romney-TeaPartyCandidate election.

How did the GOP screw this up so bad? This is the ultimate cave in by McConnell.

 

[Diablos]

McConnell is such a pussy with no tact (but then again that is most of the GOP). He makes Harry Reid look like a tough guy.

Hope it blows up in your faces, GOPers.

 

[Suikoguy]

How did the GOP screw this up so bad? This is the ultimate cave in by McConnell.

Maybe they expected the dems to cave?
The offers the dems gave to the gop were amazing, they basically had their cake and were given forks to eat it.

But, what the gop wanted was simply insane; Completely one-sided negotiating, and yet they somehow expected it to work out?

At the end of the day I'd suspect it's a combination of setting the bar way too high for cuts, and refusing tax increases on the basis of reelection to the crazy people who elected them.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

No chance. Zero.

But his plan would require a bill to be passed in both the House and Senate in the next two weeks, something that likely faces long odds

phew

Don't worry. I'm sure Rand Paul will filibuster. Kind of funny since he is the junior Senator from KY and McConnell is the senior.

 

[PantherLotus]

Maybe that's the point? Maybe McConnell thinks that Obama will get hit politically for signing an unconstitutional bill.

I guess it's not impossible, but the very idea makes me squirm at the vulnerability in which everyone involved would be permanently embroiled. I can't believe for a second that McConnell would do that to his party, to his legacy; nor do I believe Obama would be hit for signing an unconstitutional bill that Republicans on which largely signed off.

More likely to me, I think this is McConnell's way of putting the tea party in their place while trying to save as much face as possible.

But none of it really makes sense. He could at least explain/educate why tax raises on the wealthiest people on the planet are needed to GOP constituents if his members are primaried. He could at least TRY explaining why the GOP has to concede at least a little to screw the poors the way they really want. Instead, it seems like everyone is looking for the absolute worst option (other than letting the whole thing collapse).

 

[HylianTom]

Maybe they expected the dems to cave?
The offers the dems gave to the gop were amazing, they basically had their cake and were given forks to eat it.

But, what the gop wanted was simply insane; yet they somehow expected it to work out?

At the end of the day I'd suspect it's a combination of setting the bar way too high for cuts, and refusing tax increases on the basis of reelection to the crazy people who elected them.

Truthfully, I was hoping for/wondering if at some point Obama would go all Ross Perot on them and do a primetime address to the nation, complete with charts and graphs of all of the various incredible sacred-cow-chopping offers he and Biden have made over the past few weeks and months.

 

[eznark]

Don't worry. I'm sure Rand Paul will filibuster. Kind of funny since he is the junior Senator from TN and McConnell is the senior.

Paul will filibuster just to fuck McConnell. I doubt there are two people in Washington who hate each other more.

 

[PantherLotus]

Weird question:

I keep seeing the "do nothing" option that would let the tax cuts expire and suddenly we'd find ourselves in decent shape, not including our current employment numbers, foreign wars, et al.

However, this rests on the assumption that we survive long enough to let those expire (end of 2012, right?) -- or is the idea based on passing a new ceiling and nothing else? I assume the latter but want to make certain.

 

[Evlar]

Weird question:

I keep seeing the "do nothing" option that would let the tax cuts expire and suddenly we'd find ourselves in decent shape, not including our current employment numbers, foreign wars, et al.

However, this rests on the assumption that we survive long enough to let those expire (end of 2012, right?) -- or is the idea based on passing a new ceiling and nothing else? I assume the latter but want to make certain.

The latter.

 

[gcubed]

i dont understand why no one wants to tackle tax code reform.

 

[eznark]

i dont understand why no one wants to tackle tax code reform.

In a week? lol

also lol-ish:

Lost in the news cycle today: Jim Inhofe putting a hold on the Commerce Secretary nominee.

Thanks for the cover, Mitch!

 

[Invisible_Insane]

i dont understand why no one wants to tackle tax code reform.

Because the people who paid for the tax code like it the way it is?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Paul will filibuster, but ultimately he won't hold the deal past the deadline. It'll just be a "fuck you" to Obama and especially McConnell

 

[gcubed]

In a week? lol

also lol-ish:

Lost in the news cycle today: Jim Inhofe putting a hold on the Commerce Secretary nominee.

Thanks for the cover, Mitch!

no no, well 1) it should have been started a long time ago and 2) they can do it after, but no one even talks about it