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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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E

eznark

Banned
gcubed said:
no no, well 1) it should have been started a long time ago and 2) they can do it after, but no one even talks about it
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Everyone was talking about it last week. It was the Big Deal that they were working on, that Bohner walked away from on Saturday.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
gcubed said:
i dont understand why no one wants to tackle tax code reform.
Click to expand...


Obama and Boehner wanted to just last week. But then Eric Cantor came into the room and shut that down.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
People on Facebook are now interpreting what Obama said about Social Security not being able to go out on August 3rd as a sign of him holding the elderly hostage to get what he wants.

*facepalm*


I swear to god some of these people haven't gone beyond the intelligence of an average elementary school kid.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
Averon said:
Is what McConnell suggesting even constitutional? Abdicating such a level of control to the WH will surely trigger lawsuits.
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Congressional Delegations to the Executive Branch have been legal for a long time - e.g. agencies.

Also, this is different from the line item veto approach in that I would hesitate to call this "legislating," like you could call line item vetoes.
 
G

gcubed

Member
eznark said:
Everyone was talking about it last week. It was the Big Deal that they were working on, that Bohner walked away from on Saturday.
Click to expand...

well, i'd call that "sissy" reform. I mean real reform. A tax return shouldn't require more then a piece of paper or 2
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Here We Go Into The Twilight Zone
David Kurtz | July 12, 2011, 3:56PM


Twilight+Zone+Movie.jpg




We are now about to enter that discontinuum of time and space where Republicans never threatened to withhold approval for raising the debt ceiling, never used it as leverage in negotiations, and thought all along that preserving the full faith and credit of the United States should trump short term political gain. Here's the statement just out from the spokesman for Speaker John Boehner (R-OH):

The Speaker shares the Leader's frustration. Republicans are unified in our commitment to ensuring that the debt limit is not used as leverage to saddle small businesses with increased taxes that destroy jobs.
Click to expand...

Let's do the time warp again.
​
 
E

Evlar

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
People on Facebook are now interpreting what Obama said about Social Security not being able to go out on August 3rd as a sign of him holding the elderly hostage to get what he wants.

*facepalm*


I swear to god some of these people haven't gone beyond the intelligence of an average elementary school kid.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that bastard isn't going to send out the Social Security checks until his demands for Congressional approval for sending out the Social Security checks are met.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Clevinger said:
Eh. It's a cave with lots of strings attached, so not really like when Democrats cave.
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Ummm....yeah they did cave. Unless they retract their offer it's a total cave in. No spending cuts, while letting Obama raise the debt ceiling?
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Clevinger said:
Eh. It's a cave with lots of strings attached, so not really like when Democrats cave.
Click to expand...

Right. They can still use it to place blame, as its done in a way that makes it seem the President dictated it sort of unilaterally.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Ummm....yeah they did cave. Unless they retract their offer it's a total cave in. No spending cuts, while letting Obama raise the debt ceiling?
Click to expand...

The plan would require Congress to pass a bill allowing Obama to raise the debt limit on his own contingent on him taking a series of steps: Obama would have to notify Congress of his intent tor raise the debt limit -- a high-sign to Congress that would be subject to an official censure known as a "resolution of disapproval," and which Obama could veto. If he vetoed the resolution, and if Congress sustained the veto, then Obama would also have to outline a series of hypothetical spending cuts he'd make, equal to the amount of new debt authority he gives himself.
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A real (Democrat) cave for them would be a straight vote to raise the ceiling, not being able to censure the President and maybe getting the cuts they want (without the tax hikes they don't want) anyway.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Ummm....yeah they did cave. Unless they retract their offer it's a total cave in. No spending cuts, while letting Obama raise the debt ceiling?
Click to expand...

If I read that right though, both houses of congress would need to pass that, and this was proposed by McConnell in the senate.

chances of the GOP controlled house going along with this are pretty slim, no?
 
I

Incognito

Troll
republican overlords finally speak up

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...GpAI_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost
After weeks sitting on the sidelines, the country’s most powerful business lobbying groups made their loudest call yet Tuesday for the White House and Congress to come to an agreement on the debt ceiling and a plan for reducing the nation’s deficit.

The sternly worded letter demanding a rise in the debt limit marks a signficant shift in strategy by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable and other corporate leaders, who until now have remained largely mute as the standoff in Washington has propelled the country close to default.

The missive also poses a serious political challenge for Republicans, who rely heavily on corporate America for support but have balked at agreeing to revenue increases as part of a deal with Democrats. Many of the House GOP freshman who are most opposed to a compromise were swept into office with the help of financial support from the Chamber and other business interests.

“The business community in large numbers is saying to our leaders in Washington, ‘Do your job,’ ” said Business Roundtable President John Engler, the former Republican governor of Michigan. “Failure to raise the debt ceiling would strike an immediate and serious blow to any economic recovery, and failure to make significant progress on long-term debt reduction will continue the uncertainty which is hampering our investment climate.”

The letter, which was signed by 500 senior executives and investors, is notably silent on the issue of taxes, suggesting corporate leaders declined to publicly side with Republicans in their demands that no additional revenue be included in a deal. Instead, the letter urges lawmakers to “put aside their partisan differences” and fashion a deal that is “long-term, predictable and binding.”
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E

Evlar

Banned
August 2 is precisely three weeks from today. I suppose some silent deadline was passed, thus the sudden increase in pressure from business interests and impromptu squirming by McConnell.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Incognito said:
republican overlords finally speak up

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...GpAI_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost
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This pressure was the reason the GOP was backed into a corner. The interests they are looking out for have been howling (in private) to them about the need to raise the debt ceiling. The timing here makes me think McConnell's gambit was to get out ahead of it.

I have to say, McConnell's proposal is pretty remarkable. As Ezra Klein aptly put it, they're ceding the entirety of the policy debate for a political score. They can no longer even pretend that the issue is the deficit, as they've swapped that out so they can just point the finger at Obama.

I can see Obama rejecting the structure of the proposal, because his baseline for a deal is one large enough that the next debt limit vote is in 2013, off the 2012 election calendar. McConnell wants three votes during that time.

But the House and the base are going to eat him alive, which is already happening. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. This is one of the few times we've gotten to see Obama hold firm on something, while the GOP tries to wiggle out of the hold he has them in. It's hilarious and really, really sad to watch.
 
B

besada

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
This is one of the few times we've gotten to see Obama hold firm on something, while the GOP tries to wiggle out of the hold he has them in. It's hilarious and really, really sad to watch.
Click to expand...

Don't jinx it.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
LOVING OBAMA
Dear lord. This Esquire piece takes Obama ass kissing to a whole new level.
Before the fall brings us down, before the election season begins in earnest with all its nastiness and vulgarity, before the next batch of stupid scandals and gaffes, before Sarah Palin tries to convert her movie into reality and Joe Biden resumes his imitation of an embarrassing uncle and Newt and Callista Gingrich creep us all out, can we just enjoy Obama for a moment? Before the policy choices have to be weighed and the hard decisions have to be made, can we just take a month or two to contemplate him the way we might contemplate a painting by Vermeer or a guitar lick by the early-seventies Rolling Stones or a Peyton Manning pass or any other astounding, ecstatic human achievement?
Click to expand...
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Does Jon Huntsman stand chance?
As a European, he seems like a candidate I could actually live with.
Any flaws that I should know of?
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
LOVING OBAMA
Dear lord. This Esquire piece takes Obama ass kissing to a whole new level.
Click to expand...
you could excuse the author for being Canadian, but i had an improper erection while reading that with my nurse close by.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Milchjon said:
Does Jon Huntsman stand chance?
As a European, he seems like a candidate I could actually live with.
Any flaws that I should know of?
Click to expand...
Mormon, worked for Obama, governed as a moderate...

Oh, you mean actual flaws. I haven't seen much about his record that I would've found objectionable.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Milchjon said:
Does Jon Huntsman stand chance?
As a European, he seems like a candidate I could actually live with.
Any flaws that I should know of?
Click to expand...
the way the GOP primaries works, there is a greater chance of England winning the World Cup than Huntsman being selected as the nominee for the party.

the GOP primaries will be dominated by an ideological core that runs antithetical to nearly all of Huntsman's platform.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Milchjon said:
Does Jon Huntsman stand chance?
As a European, he seems like a candidate I could actually live with.
Any flaws that I should know of?
Click to expand...

He folded about as quick as can be on the Ryan Plan, at a time when nobody gave a shit what he thought on it, so that leads me to believe he has zero integrity.

Huntsman only has a chance if Romney flames out hard, which probably isn't going to happen.
 
B

besada

Banned
Milchjon said:
Does Jon Huntsman stand chance?
As a European, he seems like a candidate I could actually live with.
Any flaws that I should know of?
Click to expand...
Othr than not standing a chance, having remarkably flexible principles, few actual policy stances, and being a Mormon who pissed off the Mormons? Nope, not a problem in the world.
 
T

thekad

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
Mormon, worked for Obama, governed as a moderate...

Oh, you mean actual flaws. I haven't seen much about his record that I would've found objectionable.
Click to expand...

Supported the Ryan budget.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
PM me yo digits, yo. yo. hopeful that once i'm done with treatment i can get back into the swing of things and stop with these random missives.
 
B

besada

Banned
scorcho said:
btw, are any of you on google+? love to set up a separate circle for us
Click to expand...
Not yet. Haven't gotten around to begging an invite off someone, yet. Be happy to connect once I get on, though.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
I'm really surprised this didn't happen sooner. That's the thing that makes the least sense about this. Only the marginally informed are opposed to increasing the debt ceiling, and so it's kind of strange to see Republicans going to war over something that's bad for their sponsors.
Click to expand...

That's the power of a movement. Of course, in this instance, that movement was a Frankenstein monster, but while Frankenstein's monster may have been artificially created, he was alive nonetheless. And it ain't quite over yet.

GhaleonEB said:
This pressure was the reason the GOP was backed into a corner. The interests they are looking out for have been howling (in private) to them about the need to raise the debt ceiling. The timing here makes me think McConnell's gambit was to get out ahead of it.
Click to expand...

I suspect that's right. This is why I have been saying all along that Republican leverage was entirely illusory. And it was obvious. But that only serves to underline Obama's offers to make drastic spending cuts, including to benefits (reportedly even offering to slash Medicare benefits by raising the retirement age).

Invisible_Insane said:
Mormon, worked for Obama, governed as a moderate...

Oh, you mean actual flaws. I haven't seen much about his record that I would've found objectionable.
Click to expand...

I think going on record that he supports eliminating Medicare is a pretty big flaw.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
1. Was Ed Schultz finally fully removed off of MSBNC?
2. Did Al Sharpton really get the gig/timeslot?

Sharpton is great off the cuff, but he desperately needs a partner to do the lead-ins and read from the prompter. I'm picturing something similar to the Hardball/Matthews/Buchanan combo.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Anybody here find it odd that we went from Obama cutting Social Security and raising the age of Medicare just so he could get the debt ceiling increased to now the Senate GOP letting all of that go and basically giving Obama the power to raise it himself with no spending cuts?


Just feels like we are in bizarro world. Like how can both things happen days apart from each other?
 
V

ViperVisor

Member
"debt ceiling"
Need to compare to some control words or phrases that have been typical for the past decade or so but Google news archive for 8 years starting 2001 gets 2,750 results. The last 8 weeks 20,800 results.

The assholes have already won in making a non-issue an issue as they typically do thanks to the Liberal Media (lol) but I guess the lunatics on the right aren't happy with just a monkey wrench into the system when you could release a barrel full of monkeys.
 
R

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I just read this, found it a good take on the situation.

Gloria Borger: Republicans' no-tax purity problem

So all the congressional leaders and the president are locked in a room. They all have one goal: raising the debt ceiling. They all agree it's important. They also agree that it's urgent, because by August 2, the United States will have run out of money to pay its bills.

So, as the president asked, "if not now, when?"

He might also have asked: "if not us, who?"

Alas, the "who" part is the real problem. The Republican party has evolved, before our very eyes, into a purist, anti-tax troupe that cares more about its no-new-taxes mantra than deficit reduction. It has defined itself downward, to borrow Pat Moynihan's phrase: from a big-tent, fiscally conservative party into a coalition narrowly and blindly carved to fit a political bumper sticker.

How else to explain the GOP's refusal to even consider a potential deal cooked up by the president and House Speaker John Boehner? When the Democratic president even considers a $4 trillion plan that counts $3 in spending cuts for every $1 of tax increases, serious-minded GOP deficit cutters would normally rejoice.

Instead, Republicans balked at Boehner. The speaker then had to disown his own work, which was formidable in theory: new revenues, yes, but in exchange for reforming the tax code to lower top rates. It's the obvious deal, but it could not be made.

That's because Republicans have moved beyond politics and into theology: Offered an exchange of billions in taxes for trillions in deficit cuts, they could not see their way beyond their no-tax religion. A definitional moment, to say the least.

It comes as no surprise, but it disappoints all the same. More than 230 House Republicans -- along with 40 GOP senators -- all signed a no-tax pledge. Back in 2008, John McCain refused to sign one, rightly arguing that no president should lock himself into that box.

But this time, most GOP presidential candidates are anything but pledge-averse. In fact, they've fine-tuned the business of fiscal pledging. Mitt Romney, for instance, has signed the "cut, cap and balance" pledge--a hydra-headed monster: opposition to raising the debt ceiling until there are spending cuts, caps on spending and (why not?) congressional passage of a balanced budget amendment. As for Michele Bachmann, she's holding out until the pledge also calls for repeal of health care.

How about this pledge? "I won't commit to anything that will at all anger, upset or endanger my base of support. And I hate taxes, and promise to fight against them forever and ever."

But how about a pledge to keep the country running, not to mention a pledge to try and reduce the deficit? Whatever happened to that? Republicans are fond of claiming that Obama does not pay homage to the notion of American exceptionalism. But how can you level that claim when your party is happy to let the nation default on its debts? (Or, as GOP presidential wannabee Tim Pawlenty put it, "I hope and pray and believe they should not raise the debt ceiling.") Is that what Tim Pawlenty really prays about?

Pawlenty continued, according to The New York Times: "These historic, dramatic moments where you can draw a line in the sand and force politicians to actually do something bold and courageous are important moments."

That much is true. But, sad to say, the moment has been hijacked by the purists and stolen from the rest of us.
Click to expand...
 
S

state-of-the-art

Member
Republicans in control of the House moved toward a vote late Tuesday on legislation that would seek to overturn light bulb energy-efficiency standards and keep the marketplace clear for the cheap, energy-wasting bulbs that have changed little since Thomas Edison invented them in 1879.

The standards in question do not specifically ban the old bulbs but require a higher level of efficiency than the classics can produce, essentially nudging them off store shelves over the next few years. Four of Edison's descendants said the great inventor would be mortified to see politicians trying to get the nation to hang on to an outdated technology when better bulbs are available.

The standards have not been particularly contentious before now. They were crafted in 2007 with Republican participation and signed into law by President George W. Bush. People seem to like the new choices and the energy savings they bring, polling finds.
Click to expand...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONGRESS_LIGHT_BULBS?SITE=FLPEJ&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 
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