The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I had a dream last night where The Dark Knight Rises opened with a monologue about how Obama was destroying the American way with his campaign of class warfare.
It was...odd
It was...odd
PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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Byakuya769
Member
Guys, McCain HATED Romney. Give the "he viewed his taxes and picked Palin!" thing a rest.
gutter_trash
Banned
Sheriff Arpaio's parents immigrated to the US during at time when immigration was easier and many Italians arrived Without Out Papers hence
his hypocritical fight against "other" immigrants is so ironic especially concerning our history during early 20th century where tons and tons of Europeans arrived with minimal or no documentation at all at Ellis Island
his hypocritical fight against "other" immigrants is so ironic especially concerning our history during early 20th century where tons and tons of Europeans arrived with minimal or no documentation at all at Ellis Island
That chucklefuck needs to just give up already with the insane witchhunt.
Wow, apparently the official Romney campaign is following Fox News and taking Obama's quote completely and utterly out of context.
This whole thing is completely embarrassing that a "news" source would butcher things so badly. I mean I realize it's fox, but come on.
The full quote:
The quote fox and Romney is running with:
Yeah, a little bit different... He was talking about infrastructure. He was talking about roads and bridges and all the things surrounding a business like the internet that you yourself didn't build if you have a business.
This whole thing is completely embarrassing that a "news" source would butcher things so badly. I mean I realize it's fox, but come on.
The full quote:
The quote fox and Romney is running with:
Yeah, a little bit different... He was talking about infrastructure. He was talking about roads and bridges and all the things surrounding a business like the internet that you yourself didn't build if you have a business.
el retorno
Member
I hate false equivalences but its the same kind of quote as the Corporations are people and I like firing people. Taken to present the fears of your base as real.
He mangled that though. He was trying to do this Warren quote but it did come out pretty bad
RustyNails
Member
New Romney ad out attacking Obama for stimulus money that is unaccounted for.
I don't think this is going to change the conversation from Mittens, Bain and Taxes.
I don't think this is going to change the conversation from Mittens, Bain and Taxes.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm stunned that we have 34% of people who say he shouldn't release his tax returns. Lunacy.
It's not missing it went to arbitrary tax cuts.
Well, when the Secretary of the Treasury doesn't even pay his taxes, it's obvious paying taxes doesn't mean a whole lot to this administration other than scoring political points. Obama's concern with Romney's taxes is as shallow as Romney's stance on gay marriage.
you're a machine
Fucking right. You guys don't even realize the amount of hypocrisy you let slide for Obama - it's mind boggling.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Did we talk about Obama telling people, "you didn't build this business."
Whereas Obama is usually good at communicating a message, I think he really borked that one, especially when he was killing it the last two weeks. He should have copy and pasted that native american lady's quote about how business owners owe a debt to those that came before and the government for building infrastructure and blazing the trail. The fact that he was just saying, "You think you built that?! You didn't build that business." (paraphrasing) just reeks of that class warfare message that GOPers are always bringing up.
Whereas Obama is usually good at communicating a message, I think he really borked that one, especially when he was killing it the last two weeks. He should have copy and pasted that native american lady's quote about how business owners owe a debt to those that came before and the government for building infrastructure and blazing the trail. The fact that he was just saying, "You think you built that?! You didn't build that business." (paraphrasing) just reeks of that class warfare message that GOPers are always bringing up.
There is alot of Obama love in this thread and it certainly skews liberal, but please don't confuse the bias of the thread with your inability to put together solid arguments that result in legitimate discussion.
You occasionally have a point, but it's usually buried deep within something that either is or closely resembles something your heard on Rush during your lunchbreak.
Yeah, I figured the Obama campaign would realize that you can't say things that the opposition can twist easily. It was a bad way for him to say that.
The Librarian
Banned
You realize that quote was taken way out of context, right? By "that" he was referring to America's infrastructure.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/business-build-that_n_1680590.html
http://blogs.roanoke.com/politics/2...t-build-that-line-being-taken-out-of-context/
Of course not, at least to any great degree. I guess people just rent out a space to sell some things and the money just starts flowing in, thanks to the men and women who built the bridges and roads that allowed you to drive to work.
The clip for those that ignored it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng
Keep telling yourself that was what he meant. Is anyone in a successful business arguing that they do not benefit from roads, bridges, and the internet?
Yeah, it sounds like he stumbled and said "that" instead of possibly "those things." Read the full quote, because that's taken so far out of context it isn't even funny. He was never meaning to say you didn't build that business. Far from it. "That" isn't referring to business at all. "That" is referring to roads and infrastructure and, as he further clarifies directly afterwards, things like the internet.
The corporations are people thing isn't really taken out of context. That's the philosophy that Mitt takes, since he agrees with things like Citizens United. Those aren't really the same at all. But yes, it is similar to the "I like firing people" thing, though I still personally think this is taken a bit further out of context than that was.
The Librarian
Banned
When Obama talks about how you never get anywhere on your own – echoing Elizabeth Warren – my handy-dandy Kosmo calculator tells me:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
There are plenty of them arguing that we need significantly less government as a blanket statement, and the government is responsible for those things, so....
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Context is always important, that is why "I like firing people" has been used so vehemently by President Obama's team, but in reality, Mitt was talking about allowing more competition in healthcare, but you never want to provide your opposition with some crazy red meat. Mitt Romney said a lot of things that he didn't mince words on and now it is biting him in the ass now that he has to kowtow to every person and position in his insane constituency. Pres. Obama should have chosen his words better.
reggieandTFE
Member
Um...yes. Constantly. Bootstraps, taxes are theft, etc.
The most amazing part of your shtick is that you actually have a job. I hope little critical thinking is required.
And Romney is basically arguing that too:
Now, he didn't particularly say road workers and that, but yeah cutting back on government workers means just that. And, I don't know about you, but I personally think that police and firemen and stuff are things that help businesses quite a bit. I'd imagine less protection against theft and less fear of having your place completely burn to the ground is a good thing. But I guess the republicans might know some crazy business owners... Considering the business owners they know seem to take their own individual tax rate into account and not demand when growing their business, I guess they do know some batshit ones.
Sirpopopop
Member
AB is right, that quote was a gaffe.
If you're going to complain about that quote being out of context, you might as well rescind all your statements about Romney's quotes while ignoring their context.
If you're going to complain about that quote being out of context, you might as well rescind all your statements about Romney's quotes while ignoring their context.
I don't think Kosmo is unintelligent or lacking in critical thinking skills. Some folks in this thread (or forum in general) seem to be really knee-jerk reaction posters who just blurt out things. There are lots of liberal versions of this in here as well.
Kosmo just has a reputation and a gimmick.
Maybe Kosmo sees himself as the Bill O'Reilly of Poligaf. The social scientist in me totally wants to ascribe this to how much cable news they watch.
Meh, I still stand by my statements about Romney's quotes. In particular the firing people quote I never really found all that funny for the out of context sound of it. I personally criticized the quote because health insurance and the way it exists in this country isn't something you can just "fire" your provider for if they aren't giving you good service. That's the problem with that quote.
Nobody is arguing against roads, bridges, firemen, or police (I'm sure you can find a kook, fringe article). I think most conservatives would agree that they are all essential, proper uses of government funds. Now, we can get into issues like unionizing police and fire and what retirement benefits some of those unions have been able to get put in place on the public dime, but that is a completely separate issue.
*Cue Romney quote about firemen, police, and teachers.*
That's the exact quote I had in my original post. This has gone circular!
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
But that is what he was espousing at the time, if we allow insurance providers to compete across state lines and etc, it would make things better. In that case, he would be able to "fire" a provider to go with another. At this point, most providers that a person has at their disposition are not competing with eachother on a pricing scale and therefore are all taking equal shots at people's pocketbooks. There is no incentive to outprice another provider when all are making AMAZING profit margins.
The quote was said by someone who just isn't very good at disseminating a message in a reasonable way, but it was never intended to be some callous, "firing people is awesome!" sort of way.
So, Connie Schultz is a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter and nationally syndicated columnist.
She just posted this on Facebook:
--
Email from conservative blogger, dated July 9, 2012:
Dear Ms. Shultz,
We are doing an expose on journalists in the elite media who socialize with elected officials they are assigned to cover. We have found numerous photos of you with Sen. Sherrod Brown. In one of them, you appear to be hugging him.
Care to comment?
-----------------------
Response, dated July 10, 2012:
Dear Mr. [Name Deleted]:
I am surprised you did not find a photo of me kissing U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown so hard he passes out from lack of oxygen. He's really cute.
He's also my husband.
You know that, right?
Connie Schultz.
------------------------
July 17: Waiting, I'm waiting....
She just posted this on Facebook:
--
Email from conservative blogger, dated July 9, 2012:
Dear Ms. Shultz,
We are doing an expose on journalists in the elite media who socialize with elected officials they are assigned to cover. We have found numerous photos of you with Sen. Sherrod Brown. In one of them, you appear to be hugging him.
Care to comment?
-----------------------
Response, dated July 10, 2012:
Dear Mr. [Name Deleted]:
I am surprised you did not find a photo of me kissing U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown so hard he passes out from lack of oxygen. He's really cute.
He's also my husband.
You know that, right?
Connie Schultz.
------------------------
July 17: Waiting, I'm waiting....
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Wow... awesome stuff. Too funny
The greater context was essentially "People who build roads and bridges work just as hard as successful business people and business people shouldn't consider themselves so smart, because they had help somewhere along the line, they didn't have to build roads, etc. so spread the wealth around, pay your fair share, we all work hard, you just got a little lucky!"
Moving on...
Holy shit, that's amazing. hahahaha
Oh snap!!! She should have exposed the morons lol
Hilarious. I look forward to the digging on random liberal bloggers and assigning their asinine posts to the progressive movement at large.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Kosmo, not everything needs to be politically charged. Nor does it need to be non-partisan to be funny. Just laugh at the foolishness of this person and move on with your life.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Ownage on so many levels.
Nice liberal apologist spin.
Blergmeister
Member
About the Obama quote:
The way Obama worded it leaves it open to attacks if we consider some of Romneys quotes fair game. Elizabeth Warrent definately worded this better. To Kosmos point that of course the demographics discussed in this quote acknowledge the Government build infrastructure, I'd say that the country could use a little reminding of that. Often I hear some varient of "I made it on my own, without any government help." I'm not convinced that these people acknowledge this at all, and even if they do, it certainly is not convayed to whomever they are talking to.
The way Obama worded it leaves it open to attacks if we consider some of Romneys quotes fair game. Elizabeth Warrent definately worded this better. To Kosmos point that of course the demographics discussed in this quote acknowledge the Government build infrastructure, I'd say that the country could use a little reminding of that. Often I hear some varient of "I made it on my own, without any government help." I'm not convinced that these people acknowledge this at all, and even if they do, it certainly is not convayed to whomever they are talking to.
Oh come on. The blogger is a clown who didn't even bother to do a google search. He's lucky she didn't release his name for a thorough public shaming
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I've never understood the "insurance providers operating across state lines will lower prices" thing, and I'm not unwilling to, I guess I've just never had the rationale explained to me. There is currently intra-state competition, how does adding inter-state competition resolve the "no reason to compete because of ridiculous profits" problem?
Really, the GOP is going down this road again?
Wasn't that a losing topic for them earlier in the year?
Wasn't that a losing topic for them earlier in the year?
I don't really get the idea either. In practice wouldn't insurance providers all just rush to the state with the least taxes/regulations and lowest operating cost, and then you're back to square one...
cartoon_soldier
Member
The Librarian
Banned
"I punched this into my Kosmo calculator and it made a happy face."
Blergmeister
Member
That is what I thought would happen as well. To me it's a very anti-states right message. A state would pass a law limitting certain insurance practices. It could be somthing that all states have to deal with or it could be somthing pretty specific to that state, like say a mining thing in West Virginia or a loggin thing in the North West. What would happen is that insurance companies would bypass this regulation by moving to the state that is most bought out by this industry. In effect it would make Health Insurance have the same regulations Nationaly, but the regulator would not be the Federal Government but instead be the most bought out state Government.
I'd be more amenable to this if the Federal Government took control of Health Insurance regulations, but still had an eye out for specific state concerns. In short, that is what the ACA, Obamacare, did by making a national minimum health insurance standard but still leave controll of everything to the states.
No. The greater context is that business is so successful here in America because of the stability and infrastructure of government.
When I started a business, I utilized the internet, the post office, the banking system, the roads, the police department, and numerous tax breaks. Let's also not forget my public school education. I didn't do it all on my own. I had individual initiative and a system in place that allowed me to be successful. If I lived in a country without that infrastructure in place, I'd be protecting my mud shack and dirty water supply from bands of roving warlords with my AK-47.
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