And considering all that you mention is in place and available to every US citizen, this is the most important part of what made you successful.
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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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And considering all that you mention is in place and available to every US citizen, this is the most important part of what made you successful.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Warlords with corporate sponsors of course.
I also have an issue with the idea that the company's success is all the responsibility of the leader/owner of the company and not the workforce of the company.
Sirpopopop
Member
You mean consumers, right?
NathanMcMahon
Banned
what is this ridiculous notion of society and an implied social contract you speak of. begone heathen.
Blergmeister
Member
Are people arguing against this being an important part?
No, the most important part of what made me successful is that I was born in a first world country. So instead of having to roam around the countryside looking for food and water or becoming cannon fodder for some crazy dictator, I got to spend my childhood in front of an art table to hone my art skills. I had opportunity up the yin-yang that others in poorer situations with individual initiative never get to have or experience. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that individual initiative isn't important, but the idea that that's all it takes or that's the main part of being successful is ridiculous.
Prime example; If I was born with a trust fund like Mitt Romney, I'd be even MORE successful than I am right now. Which is why I personally don't believe that people like Donald Trump or Mitt Romney are truly self-made men.
There's no such thing as a self-made man, period.
Agreed.
maximum360
Member
What's really a shame is that the media doesn't push back on this at all. Limiting options or access to voting should be widely criticized.
Why not just let people write a name on a piece of paper and mail it in. Why we need ballots?
So what's the point of doing this? I know gifs are used to communicate frequently online, but this isn't even a follow up to a joke or something.
Few people in this thread really believe that businesses are where they are COMPLETELY because of the government, but at the same time the things provided by the government have helped many business owners. Including massive subsidies! Instead of parsing the complexity of that, we get random one liners and stupid images. It's like having a permanent drive by poster.
Has the overwhelming liberal presence in poligaf socialized you to this type of communication? Even Bulbo and Ez only really pop up in here when important stuff happens. Is this like some sort of Stockholm syndrome?
You don't have to fight the Obama strawmen with the FoxNews strawmen. Thousands of Americans are having that discussion in an equally lame way in real life.
eBay Huckster
Member
oh c'mon man
you know as well as anyone else that the sophistication of the medium of voting has little to do with access to voting, don't bring your gimmick this far
e: also would just like to agree with several other posters about that Obama quote being one hell of a gaffe, you'd think he'd know better re: wording
The Obama quote was a gaffe -- it felt like he was trying to echo Warren, but doing it poorly. If he doesn't clarify himself, it definitely leaves him open to attack.
I am a business owner (and will be co-founding another soon) and think those who do take the risks that I do should be handsomely rewarded when what we create does well. At the moment, I'd be making much more money if I went the easy route and got a salaried position at some other company, but I'm trying to build something of my own partly with the hope that I'll eventually be rewarded for my efforts. A few points, though:
1. Demand for my business relies on a healthy middle class. Ergo, I support initiatives designed to help the middle class. Most of our economy relies on the middle class.
2. My business would be impossible without the infrastructure built in part by government funded research and initiatives. It makes perfect sense to me to pay back into that. Plus, I'm a big fan of public transit and the private sector has been pretty pathetic in that arena -- makes America look bad.
I am a business owner (and will be co-founding another soon) and think those who do take the risks that I do should be handsomely rewarded when what we create does well. At the moment, I'd be making much more money if I went the easy route and got a salaried position at some other company, but I'm trying to build something of my own partly with the hope that I'll eventually be rewarded for my efforts. A few points, though:
1. Demand for my business relies on a healthy middle class. Ergo, I support initiatives designed to help the middle class. Most of our economy relies on the middle class.
2. My business would be impossible without the infrastructure built in part by government funded research and initiatives. It makes perfect sense to me to pay back into that. Plus, I'm a big fan of public transit and the private sector has been pretty pathetic in that arena -- makes America look bad.
TacticalFox88
Banned
It's so cute when conservatives try and perpetuate the "I worked hard for what I have! Government should stay outta my way!" Not realizing that without government what they had would be next to impossible to get.
Yeah, I wonder how successful Steve Jobs and Bill Gates would have been in a third world country where no one can afford Iphones, Windows PCs or Mac Computers.
PhoenixDark
Banned
These conspiracy theories give McCain way too much credit. Palin was chosen to energize the base and completely throw the campaign off it's hinges - which were benefitting Obama at the time. Likewise McCain's camp literally thought she could win them a good amount of female voters. And let's not forget McCain hated Romney at the time
Steve Schmitt said that while he didn't see Romney's returns, the campaign didn't view them as a liability. Romney's wealth was the problem
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
They still would have done more than fine. Genius and drive works in any setting. They wouldn't have billionaires, of course, but highly successful all the same.
"I don't want him to release his tax returns because it will mean Obama has a better chance of winning"
Why do you keep talking about third world countries? We are talking about people living in the US - those that start businesses and what level of income they achieve through some risk and initiative, and grow to employ other Americans, versus those who build roads and collect a salary with little to no risk or need for initiative other than showing up to work and putting in the hours.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Soo...Romney's new strategy is to attack Obama on past drug use, Chicago connections, might as well through in Rev. Wright there.
eBay Huckster
Member
Why do Republicans talk about third world countries when they're trying to stress the "less regulation" meme?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Do you think Obama's message intentionally differs from Warren's or do you think he was trying to echo Warren's message and fucking it up?
I think most people here give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume he was trying to say what Warren has been saying. I think very few people would agree with Obama's statements at face value.
For reference, Warren's statements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyDR2b71ag
Why shouldn't he? Your guys do it all the time!
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I think we realize that he is continuing his drive towards trying to get his Buffett Rule enacted, and he is trying to sway the public discourse towards further acceptance of that fact. Only, to actually make things "fair", only raising taxes on millionaires is a stupid way to do that. Warren said it better, but it is obvious that Obama was trying to get that same feeling and screwed it up.
Must not have had his teleprompter with him /Kosmo.
maximum360
Member
That's a mean ad (quite effective). Goes for the jugular.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Crying over context at this point is dumb. Obama's camp has spent plenty of time distorting Romney's record and comments. You guys have been quite happy about the Chicago politics occurring, but now are upset Romney has decided to fight back?
Obama's comment was a gaffe. It was logical and true, but easily misconstrued.
Obama's comment was a gaffe. It was logical and true, but easily misconstrued.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Why exactly was it foolish to say that a business owner didn't build the roads and infrastructure in the country?
Romney's quotes were never really misrepresented.
Discussing it adds literally nothing to the debate over which man would do a better job as President for the next four years.
worldrunover
Member
Election years sustain themselves on quotes taken out of context. Lest we all forget lipstick-gate in 2008. This is nothing really that surprising.
It was foolish to make it sound like "you didn't build that business" -- he should have worded it better.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I like being able to fire people?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
That is what he meant but that isn't what he said. You guys are so happy to point out Romney's lack of nuance, but get butthurt when your guy does it. Maybe I am the only objective person in here.
balladofwindfishes
Member
when was anything Romney said recently taken directly out of context and twisted to mean something that wasn't even said?
what record is being distorted? If anyone is distorting Romney's record, it's Romney himself.
I'm sure he does like being able to fire people.
Personally I think Obama left himself wide open to attack with those statements and it's Obama's job to clarify, not Romney's.
What of Romney's has been misrepresented? "Corporations are people"? Are you saying Romney wants corporate personhood reform?
worldrunover
Member
The WSJ opinion page is running with it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304388004577533300916053684.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
90% of the people in that comments section should be traded to Uganda for draft picks.
empty vessel
Member
What's the difference? It's all work that creates wealth for the society.
Cal Thomas wrote a piece last week about how we should privatize roads.
Mitch Daniels sold 75 years of toll rights to foreign investors on a 157-mile road for a $3.8 billion lump sum payment to get the government in the black. Government taxes and bonds to build infrastructure? BAD! Private tolls and (what are functionally) bonds to build infrastructure? GOOD!
el retorno
Member
You're right. Obama said something stupid. His point is obvious but its the same "spread the wealth around"
You do if you defend Obama's quote you have to realize that Romney's quote had nuance and wasn't just the words he said.
Romeny's nuance is still stupid though.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No, that is what he actually said. Again, "that" is referring to the previous sentence. "That" is referring to roads and infrastructure. It's not a lack of nuance or him meaning something but saying it wrong. What he said was pretty well correct. It's just when taken out of context, the pronoun changes meaning. Yes he could have worded it better and said "those things" or just smashed the two sentences together so it said something like "If you started a business, you didn't build the roads and infrastructure you use." I feel like he did have it worded better and then stumbled.
It's still not foolish to say what he said, though. I mean if that's foolish then it may as well be foolish to ever use a pronoun instead of specifically pointing out every single word and what you mean at every sentence. Yes it's a political problem now, and yes he should have tried a bit harder to word that better, but I definitely wouldn't characterize it as "foolish."
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Times like these are when you can tell who here is being reasonable and objective and who is being protective and feeling hurt.
and I am not calling you out RDreamer or anything.
and I am not calling you out RDreamer or anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSddioKBp9o
Here's the romney 'like to fire people' quote.
I think he makes good points about healthcare here (I'd like to see it incorporated into obamacare to further help individuals), though ironically his ideas would have at least as big an impact on 'keeping your own insurance' as obamacare, which he's blasted in the past.
Here's the romney 'like to fire people' quote.
I think he makes good points about healthcare here (I'd like to see it incorporated into obamacare to further help individuals), though ironically his ideas would have at least as big an impact on 'keeping your own insurance' as obamacare, which he's blasted in the past.
el retorno
Member
Then why don't you highlight the next sentence in Romeny's "Corporations are people" where he clarifies he talks about the fact that a corporations is made up of people and shareholders and he wasn't saying literally a corporation is a person?
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