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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
el retorno said:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/29/sarah-palin-floats-idea-of-leaving-republican-party-video/

Palin open to forming a new true conservative™ party
Click to expand...

Oh good god, YES.

I've mentioned this before, but it's surreal to see a Teabagger civil war. What's the first thing they'll fight about?

Which side gets to keep the confederate flag.

Stolen from Colbert.



Oh by the way, surprised I haven't seen much talk of this:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) office tells ThinkProgress that the Senate is now adjourned until Monday, July 8, with no “pro forma” sessions planned during the coming week. This is significant because these pro forma sessions, sham sessions where a single senator briefly gavels the Senate into session for a few minutes, are a legally controversial method the Senate uses to cut off the president’s recess appointment power. Without these sham sessions, President Obama’s power to recess appoint several officials currently being filibustered by Senate Republicans likely just roared back to life.
Click to expand...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...-just-got-his-recess-appointments-power-back/

Obama needs to go on an appointment spree while he still can.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Oblivion said:
Oh good god, YES.

I've mentioned this before, but it's surreal to see a Teabagger civil war. What's the first thing they'll fight about?

Which side gets to keep the confederate flag.

Stolen from Colbert.



Oh by the way, surprised I haven't seen much talk of this:



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...-just-got-his-recess-appointments-power-back/

Obama needs to go on an appointment spree while he still can.
Click to expand...

Can he reappoint people that fell under the pro forma time period?
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Thinking about McCain and 2008, there were all those allegations that he was going to die in his first term. Guy is still going. People can make up a lot of stuff to justify their vote.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
Thinking about McCain and 2008, there were all those allegations that he was going to die in his first term. Guy is still going. People can make up a lot of stuff to justify their vote.
Click to expand...

There's a huge difference in stress and energy levels between a senator and the president - just look how its aged Obama.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
APKmetsfan said:
Can he reappoint people that fell under the pro forma time period?
Click to expand...
Maybe if they resign, I don't see how he can recess appoint someone if there is no vacancy though.

I doubt he would, it weakens his hand on doing them during future pro forma sessions, and looks like he is "admitting" it was shady which is a bad idea given ongoing challenge to previous appointments during pro forma sessions.

Edit: I wish recess appointments were the exception. Holds and filibusters of appointments should be limited in duration, that cabinet and judicial nominees can't get an up or down vote is a joke. Truly bad nominations will still get tabled IMO
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Dax01 said:
Besides those that are introducing bills into Congress that declassify FISA court opinions. There are even some conservative Democrats in there, too!
Click to expand...
Not talking about senators and congressmen, I'm referring to commentators and bloggers. We're seeing an interesting divide between Digby types and those more focused on pure politics (ie protect my guy).
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
Not talking about senators and congressmen, I'm referring to commentators and bloggers. We're seeing an interesting divide between Digby types and those more focused on pure politics (ie protect my guy).
Click to expand...
Care to post any examples? Chait wrote about the NSA leaks as much as he did about Greenwald. In fact, most of the people I follow have been focusing on the content – not the person – and only mention the person when its relevant to the story (as when Greenwald uses hyperbole to poor effect).
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Dax01 said:
Care to post any examples? Chait wrote about the NSA leaks as much as he did about Greenwald. In fact, most of the people I follow have been focusing on the content – not the person – and only mention the person when its relevant to the story (as when Greenwald uses hyperbole to poor effect).
Click to expand...
Sure when I get home. In general I like Chait, and while the Nader comparison is interesting it's just another story about...Greenwald. In general I've noticed some rather stupid attacks on him, alongside the typical spin Greg Sargent and others provide whenever a "scandal" erupts. In general I think some liberal bloggers are so used to automatically defending Obama against baseless charges from fact deprived conservatives that they go on defense autopilot whether a serious charge emerges.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Black Mamba said:
Over the next 8 years, there's a good chance all these will retire/expire:

Ginsberg (80)
Scalia (77)
Breyer (74)
Kennedy (76)


That would tip the scales to solid 6-3 liberal if done right.

edit: thomas is 65.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would assume that Ginsberg will retire in the next year. Then what? Scalia and Kennedy are getting old, but I imagine both will try to hold on to see what happens in 2016.

Even then, that will give the court a 6-3 liberal slide, and we can really attack some of the most vicious policies that state GOPers have enacted over the past few years.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/meet-the-press/52355266#52355266

Maddow on meet the press destroys jim demint on gay marriage. Some other GOPer tries to play the victim card in response, lol.

Later that same guy argued the mid-term elections would be big cuz of it and when maddow pointed out that since then his group and the GOP lost all battles against same-sex marriage prior to the SCOTUS ruling and went from 9 to 12 states and now 13. Guy was all "yeah, but we got the evangelicals out to vote" and Maddow all "and still lost." lolz
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Black Mamba said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/meet-the-press/52355266#52355266

Maddow on meet the press destroys jim demint on gay marriage. Some other GOPer tries to play the victim card in response, lol.

Later that same guy argued the mid-term elections would be big cuz of it and when maddow pointed out that since then his group and the GOP lost all battles against same-sex marriage prior to the SCOTUS ruling and went from 9 to 12 states and now 13. Guy was all "yeah, but we got the evangelicals out to vote" and Maddow all "and still lost." lolz
Click to expand...

Dude, you gotta stop posting stuff that I was just about to post! lol
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Ugh. I'm doing research for my environmental politics course and I'm looking at the Waxman-Markey bill that passed the House but died in the Senate, and, damn...god I hope we can pass something that ambitious the next time the opportunity arises. That bill had a clean energy standard and a cap-and-trade system!
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Dax01 said:
Ugh. I'm doing research for my environmental politics course and I'm looking at the Waxman-Markey bill that passed the House but died in the Senate, and, damn...god I hope we can pass something that ambitious the next time the opportunity arises. That bill had a clean energy standard and a cap-and-trade system!
Click to expand...
One half of the team is in the Senate now. Let's do it!
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said Sunday that any attempt at comprehensive immigration legislation cannot offer a "special pathway to citizenship" for those in the United States illegally. That approach could block the GOP's hopes of ever winning the White House, the top Democrat in the House predicted.

With last week's Senate passage of a comprehensive immigration bill, the emotionally heated and politically perilous debate is now heading toward the Republican-led House, where conservative incumbents could face primary challenges if they appear too lenient on the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the United States illegally.

Rep. Bob Goodlatte, the Virginia Republican who leads the House Judiciary Committee, said he does not foresee a proposal that could provide a simple mechanism for immigrants here illegally to earn full standing as U.S. citizens, as many Democrats have demanded. Goodlatte's committee members have been working on bills that address individual concerns but have not written a comprehensive proposal to match the Senate's effort.
Click to expand...
http://news.yahoo.com/house-takes-own-immigration-fix-no-citizenship-162453848.html

lolgop.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Black Mamba said:
http://news.yahoo.com/house-takes-own-immigration-fix-no-citizenship-162453848.html

lolgop.
Click to expand...

Nancy Pelosi didn't help matters when she said the obvious:

Pelosi said:
"I believe that the members of Congress, many more than are directly affected themselves by the number of Hispanics in their district, will do what is right for our country,” she said in a pre-recorded interview that aired Sunday. “And it’s certainly right, for the Republicans, if they ever want to win a presidential race.”
Click to expand...

Which I assume was on purpose =P Imagine the Tea Party folks in the House hearing this. I can see it putting them even further in the defensive position with regards to passing comprehensive immigration reform.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
Discharge.
Click to expand...

Chait thinks it can be done.
So then the question would be, could Democrats find seventeen House Republicans willing to endure the wrath of conservatives to sign a discharge petition? The threat would come from primary challenges from conservatives. On the other hand, there is a lot of pro-immigration money out there available to support any Republican facing such a challenge. And the other big advantage of a discharge petition is that Republicans wouldn't need to save bipartisan face by rounding up a respectable number of their own party to support it. Just the bare minimum would do.
Click to expand...

Brian Beutler, on the other hand, is more than skeptical.
Those silver linings disappear if Democrats manage to get the bill enacted “by accident.”

In fact, the worst possible outcome for the GOP would be for the bill to become law over the explicit objections of leadership. It would give Democrats a huge policy victory but leave Republicans without the political dividends they’d pocket by being equal partners in the reform effort. It might even exacerbate their problems with Hispanic voters. And allowing a couple dozen Republicans to sign a discharge petition would accomplish just that.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with BB.

@jmartNYT When big GOP/biz leaders met in Norquist's office in Jan, they were optimistic on imm bc of a) Mitt's loss & b) Rubio as face...
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/350614714910380032

@jmartNYT ...but fear of primaries, nature of House R districts trumping Nat'l prospects & many don't seem to much care about Rubio's fate
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/350614960553992192
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Dax01 said:
Chait thinks it can be done.


Brian Beutler, on the other hand, is more than skeptical.


I'm inclined to agree with BB.


https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/350614714910380032


https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/350614960553992192
Click to expand...

I'd have to see the districts and if there are 17. I don't think they can be seen to hold up progress, I still think there will be a conference and the bill will look more like the senate's and contain a pathway to citizenship.

Dax01 said:
https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/350614960553992192
Click to expand...

I don't understand them. They literally are dooming themselves for two/four more years in Washington.

One thing that I don't think it always discussed when talking about the 2010 gerrymandering is the fact that their will still be migration and population changes within the decade. Its not going to radically change the game but I think it will make a few more competitive than conventional wisdom allows.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
I'd have to see the districts and if there are 17. I don't think they can be seen to hold up progress, I still think there will be a conference and the bill will look more like the senate's and contain a pathway to citizenship.
Click to expand...
I'm curious. How do you expect the House to pass an immigration bill when Boehner can't even corral 218 Republican votes for a farm bill?
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Dax01 said:
I'm curious. How do you expect the House to pass an immigration bill when Boehner can't even corral 218 Republican votes for a farm bill?
Click to expand...

Boehner only needs 16 other Republicans. If Boehner wants to pass the Senate bill (edit: or anything that looks much like it), he can almost certainly do so.

Right now, I'm thinking that the most likely outcome here is that nothing ends up happening. The second most likely is that Boehner gets bought off; he brings the bill to the floor, it passes with almost only Democrats' votes, and then if Boehner gets deposed over it he takes a nice retirement at a pro-immigration conservative think tank. Next is Boehner doing the same thing after receiving assurances that he's not going to get deposed. Last is the discharge petition.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Dax01 said:
I'm curious. How do you expect the House to pass an immigration bill when Boehner can't even corral 218 Republican votes for a farm bill?
Click to expand...

I think the farm bill is a different beast. Its not as "important" for the vast majority of representatives. Its much easier politically to oppose.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Gotchaye said:
Boehner only needs 16 other Republicans. If Boehner wants to pass the Senate bill (edit: or anything that looks much like it), he can almost certainly do so.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, but my question wasn't under that context. Passing the Senate bill wouldn't make the two chambers go to conference. Presumably, if the two chambers entered conference, Boehner would want to enter it from a position of strength, and the best way to do that is to pass the bill with 218+ Republican votes. Which leads me back to my original question: How can Boehner pass an immigration bill with 218 R votes when he can't even get a farm bill through? Entering conference with a mixture of Democrat and Republican votes – hell, this is probably just as likely as with only R votes – would likely lead to chaos within the GOP rank and file as they fight over whose demands will be met.

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/350995031701716992
https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/350994402577088514
https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/350993290688077825
APKmetsfan said:
I think the farm bill is a different beast. Its not as "important" for the vast majority of representatives. Its much easier politically to oppose.
Click to expand...
Well, going from that standpoint of it not being important, you can take that view from the other side and say because it isn't important, it should've been pretty easy to pass. Remember, Boehner is a weak speaker.
I’m not certain of this, but I don’t think it’s doable. First, it’s hard to imagine 218 Republicans getting to yes on any major legislation. And even if they can agree on some policy in theory, hardliners will recognize the effort as a feint to get to conference where conservatives will be quickly sold out, and withhold support for that reason. Even if that doesn’t doom the thing, I think it’s possible that the final legislation would be toxic enough to damage the party and that Boehner would be reluctant to put it on the floor.
Click to expand...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Dax01 said:
Care to post any examples? Chait wrote about the NSA leaks as much as he did about Greenwald. In fact, most of the people I follow have been focusing on the content – not the person – and only mention the person when its relevant to the story (as when Greenwald uses hyperbole to poor effect).
Click to expand...

Some examples

While Willis finds fault with the scope of the plan, he has spent most of his time attacking Greenwald and Snowden, essentially arguing they had no right to reveal this (and the American people, somehow, should have found out on their own somehow).
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/nsa-leaks-nuance-me/

"Attack the messenger"
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/04/glenn-greenwalds-hilarious-denial-about-his-support-for-iraq-war/

I'll post more when I get back. I'm not a fan of Greenwald anymore, but he shouldn't be the thrust of the story.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Dax01 said:
Well, going from that standpoint of it not being important, you can take that view from the other side and say because it isn't important, it should've been pretty easy to pass. Remember, Boehner is a weak speaker.
Click to expand...

You could make that argument but my point would be they can vote against an easy bill because they can sell their pet cause to their constituents. 'Look your congressman voted against food stamps!' And since the bill isn't 'important' that in their eyes is more beneficial than actually passing a bill. What are the downsides to not passing the farm bill for most of these guys elections?

I think there are quite a few republicans to whom the outcome of the immigration bill is vastly more important.

The question shouldn't be whether the GOP can block this but whether the speaker allows a vote. The bill can pass.

PhoenixPause said:
Some examples

While Willis finds fault with the scope of the plan, he has spent most of his time attacking Greenwald and Snowden, essentially arguing they had no right to reveal this (and the American people, somehow, should have found out on their own somehow).
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/nsa-leaks-nuance-me/

"Attack the messenger"
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/04/glenn-greenwalds-hilarious-denial-about-his-support-for-iraq-war/

I'll post more when I get back. I'm not a fan of Greenwald anymore, but he shouldn't be the thrust of the story.
Click to expand...
Why can't people defend the NSA if that's their opinion?

I don't think journalism has to opposed everything the government does if they agree with it. Obviously people don't find it outrageous enough.
Contrast that with the drone program were I think you find a lot more democrats opposing the President.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
Some examples

While Willis finds fault with the scope of the plan, he has spent most of his time attacking Greenwald and Snowden, essentially arguing they had no right to reveal this (and the American people, somehow, should have found out on their own somehow).
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/nsa-leaks-nuance-me/

"Attack the messenger"
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/04/glenn-greenwalds-hilarious-denial-about-his-support-for-iraq-war/

I'll post more when I get back. I'm not a fan of Greenwald anymore, but he shouldn't be the thrust of the story.
Click to expand...
Eh. I don't know who those guys are, and I've never heard of them before. Either way, that doesn't seem like a significant portion of commentators to me. There's always going to be a couple people who do that here and there on both sides.
APKmetsfan said:
You could make that argument but my point would be they can vote against an easy bill because they can sell their pet cause to their constituents. 'Look your congressman voted against food stamps!' And since the bill isn't 'important' that in their eyes is more beneficial than actually passing a bill. What are the downsides to not passing the farm bill for most of these guys elections?

I think there are quite a few republicans to whom the outcome of the immigration bill is vastly more important.

The question shouldn't be whether the GOP can block this but whether the speaker allows a vote. The bill can pass.
Click to expand...
For the farm bill, it cut food stamps, so I don't see why your first point would have any benefit. If the bill isn't that important, it should've been a lot easier to convince people to sign on because nobody is going to pay enough attention to it. All the farm bill did was underscore the fact that Boehner can't pass anything through the House with the support of his own caucus. We saw this with the Bush tax cuts earlier in the year where Boehner failed to move his compromise plan with the support of his caucus, and that *was* important.

Sure, a bill could pass the House, but only on mostly Democratic votes with a few Republicans. As of right now, I remain unconvinced he'll do that, and I also remain unconvinced that he could pass a bill that'll garner 218+ Republican votes.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Oh GOP House shenanigans. Please double the gains I've projected for Democrats in my dream. Maybe even triple!

Imagine if Reid refused to pass bills without the majority of his caucus. Actually, it'd probably be the same seeing as how Democrats voted unanimously in favor of immigration reform just now. It's almost like they actually want to get something done!
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Black Mamba said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/meet-the-press/52355266#52355266

Maddow on meet the press destroys jim demint on gay marriage. Some other GOPer tries to play the victim card in response, lol.

Later that same guy argued the mid-term elections would be big cuz of it and when maddow pointed out that since then his group and the GOP lost all battles against same-sex marriage prior to the SCOTUS ruling and went from 9 to 12 states and now 13. Guy was all "yeah, but we got the evangelicals out to vote" and Maddow all "and still lost." lolz
Click to expand...
She was loaded for bear going into that show. She hyped that MTP appearance on her Friday show.
 
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