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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Reuters and AP are great when it comes to breaking news. If you want to go any deeper it really depends on who is doing the reporting. Obviously no one should be taken as Gospel though.
The Librarian
Banned
#TeamLyle
Rhomega Beta
Member
Speaking of which, considering there are so many far-right sources that are unreliable (notably Fox News), are there any left-wing sources that are unreliable?
The Librarian
Banned
I don't know if the people who run it are inaccurate, but I tend to stray away from grossly partisan blogs/websites like Electablog. Those type of websites that see the other side as plain evil.
empty vessel
Member
As opposed to plain stupid?
zero shift
Banned
Their recent article about the PSUV trying to ban baby formula in Venezuela is one.
EDIT - I should have said non-Western European countries, as well as nations not called US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand instead of "English Speaking countries". That sounds ignorant.
Nope, it's a completely silly bill. Maduro's kinda a moron. Chavez at least was smart, Maduro is a dumb Chavez.
zero shift
Banned
The problem is the article itself. Its not really a serious discussion there but more so very few people of the fringe groups supporting it. Relate it with when crazy Republicans propose crazy ass bills to vote on that would never pass. But with the way the article present it (and the fact there is an article on this at all), it seem that its a serious proposition from the party.
Maduro is basically Chavez 2 so far from what I understand. Only he's a bit more reasonable on some things (e.g. negotiating with food companies about the "shortage"). Not to mention there was another article on this before when the same dingbats did it during Chavez's time.
empty vessel
Member
What's the headline?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't mean to demean the swedish news! I'm sure its great. I'm just speaking on a more theoretical level. The Swedish people demand that news, in a way its kind of a market force though in this case a democratic force. Its not just because of the publicly funded nature of the news that makes it that way and able to ask those tough questions.
And my point about sources wouldn't be retaliation but quieting source relationships, privileged access,
And Swedish or any public journalists are never non-interested. They always bring their opinions to the table. Again I'm not an expert on the swedish news but places like the BBC represent the "British media elite" they reflect their world and viewpoints (I'm gonna guess many of them come from privileged middle class families, went to the same schools, have the same kind of friends) and the world they wish to present they have to choose what to report and not, that in and of itself is bias you just happen to agree with their decisions.
To claim they can be impartial and free from influence is silly and naive. The difference in these places is there is much more consensus about the issues of the day and structure of society along with the choice of what is "newsworthy". Most of the media criticism in America comes from discontent and disagreement with the current power/economical/political structure. IMO in a place like Sweden there is much more consensus about these things between politicians, journalists and the public so you don't have the conflicts you do in America. (to be clear I'm not saying they don't question Politicians or undermine them but there isn't the desire to completely upend the societal order to the extend say FOX or MSNBC desires for their own partisan ends). Your example of that Swedish show sounds a lot like tim russert when he did MTP
I'm not saying it can't work, it does. But the its not because of the public nature of it. Making something public doesn't not make it automatically better or freer.
And, I would fundamentally disagree about the American media and educations. Its a European elitist view. It assumes the European view is the correct one and says since america differs, its worse. I do not deny in many places out math, science and literature course are weaker than many in europe (I'd feel the best of ours are better or at least equal) but the view that Sweden's system prepares their people better for democratic participation reeks of elitism and condescension. You might have valid points about certain aspects being better but the wholesale dismissal of the American education system and media without regarding its vastness and difference within the country is ignorant at best.
And while I haven't been to Sweden there are many Europeans I've meet who are just as bad or worse at knowing about their political systems than Americans. You're judging based, I'm assuming, on the company that you keep and the media you consume and your own interests. I could judge that most Americans are educated and well informed on politics and world based on say living in Washington DC (or based on postings at PoliGAF!) but you'd rightly point out I'm judging based off a skewed sample. Maybe Sweden is more uniform, again I haven't been there, but your and many European's views are IMO subject to confirmation bias too often.
On topic of the photo:
The constant twitter buzz blasting CNN and the like for covering more of Zimmerman than Egypt ignores the fact that some people view questions of race/gun culture/vigilantism all of which are present in that case are far more important to more Americans than a coup country which they never really will be affected by. I'd rather watch egypt as would most news junkies because that's where are interests lies others differ. Why should someone be forced to watch something that they deem unimportant for their lives? Who gets to decide what's 'real news' and isn't that bias?
How can you hate on the site that belongs to national treasure, LOLGOP?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
He runs that site?
PhoenixDark
Banned
LOLGOP is from Michigan, he (or she) lives a few miles from me lol
NYCmetsfan
Banned
His comments are funny sometimes but the stuff he re-tweets is partisan unthinking crap much of the time.
He's either the owner or is one of the people who runs it.
speculawyer
Member
Well I'd be skeptical of the far-out liberal cause groups such as some environmental groups, vegan groups, animal rights groups, organic groups, etc. They often have good intentions but some people that believe in their cause so deeply will put out scientifically inaccurate information if it helps their cause. I think that is a bad strategy because you'll lose credibility when you get debunked. Put your best case forward but don't lie.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Like the anti-GMO movement.
speculawyer
Member
Yeah. Most of them don't even have fucking clue as to what they are talking about.
That said, I don't think that GMO labeling law was so bad . . . I would have continued to purchase GMO labeled products. And I think after a little bit of discussion and learning, most people would have as well. It could have been a nice teachable moment. But instead it kind of bothers me that the companies would rather hide the facts than convince people that the facts are fine.
Anti-nuclear power people are insufferable too.
As are pro-nuclear power people, particularly rose-tinted modernists.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Well, the nuclear argument is tainted by both sides. Deregulation, and the ilk. I have listened to enough Harry Shearer's News of The Atom to know that fault lies on all sides. In some cases nuclear is good but in many it is not. We need public ownership and public transparency oversight.
Nuclear energy can be good, but at the cost of many, and that is the question. Whether we can afford that costly infrastructure. And I mean global. I like nuclear energy, but it has to be regulated to the nth degree, something which the State needs total control and even then...
Nuclear energy can be good, but at the cost of many, and that is the question. Whether we can afford that costly infrastructure. And I mean global. I like nuclear energy, but it has to be regulated to the nth degree, something which the State needs total control and even then...
The Librarian
Banned
I'm in favor of it, and our local nuclear power plant is publically owned, even though it's still been turned off since the floods of two years ago.
As a first thing I'd like to see happen, is a ban on building anywhere near them. The plants are built on cheap land because they need so much space, and in a floodplain since they use oceans or rivers as their heatsink. Which leads to people building right up next to them because the land is cheap. A nice federal ban on building within X miles radius of a plant would be a good start.
... and fucked up when you think people are just fine building within blocks of a coal plant, which spews out more radiation. There's a new development springing up across the river in Iowa, and the end of the street in it is just dominated by the view of the side of the coal plant.
cooljeanius
Member
How are those even calculated...
ChoklitReign
Member
This place is a ghost town... on July 4th? There's nothing for me to do because it's been raining all day.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Right, but it helps. All print media in Sweden has an (openly stated) political bias (in most cases right-wing by Swedish standards), while part of the mission statement of public service news is to stay politically neutral. The fact that public service media isn't reliant on ads also means that it's easier for them to report on wrong-doings of corporations.
As far as I can tell, this is not really a problem in Sweden. All political parties want to get their message out there, and public service media reaches the largest number of people, so they're not likely to be shut out.
I think this is more a problem with BBC than with Swedish news, but sure, individual reporters may have their own opinions that rub off on their work. But usually it balances out in the end. Economy journalist may be a bit more right-wing on average, while culture journalists are a bit more left-wing on average. Most people are aware of this and know how to parse information to take this into account.
You are right, for better or for worse (I would argue it's for the better) Swedish society, culture and politics are built on trying to reach consensus. And if your views are very far outside of the consensus, you may find that your own views are not represented in the mainstream media. But in Sweden this mostly applies to racist arseholes, and who gives a toss about what they think anyway?
As I said above, because they are not reliant on ad revenue, it is far easier for them to report neutrally on corporations than it is for privately owned media.
I am slightly drunk now so I don't really care if what I'm about to say comes across as slightly elitist, but to me there is no question that Swedish education better prepares its citizens for democratic participation than the American equivalent. The fact that the Republican party (a party whose policies only benefit roughly one percent of the population) gets almost 50 % of all votes really tells all you need to know about American education. And you are touching on an interesting point. You say that there are big differences depending on region (and I would add social status). I would absolutely agree with that. In fact, I would say that is actually the problem. If you are lucky enough to be born into a white, middle-class family in the USA, you will get a good education, and maybe end up with political views that would benefit yourself. But if you are unlucky enough to be born into a poor family in a place like Baltimore, school won't really prepare you for a lot more than the drug market. You say that the best of your education is better than European education. I don't find that hard to believe, for the few people that are privileged enough to be able to partake in this. The problem is that the median and lowest tiers are much worse than the equivalents in Europe, thus lowering the baseline of public discourse. And therefore the working class in America is not able to break out of its chains; they were indoctrinated with stupid shit that would make it more probable that they would buy into bullshit like trickle-down economy and the like.
You might be right that I may have some confirmation bias going on here. I was born into the middle class (which is much larger in Sweden than in the USA) and went to university (which is much more common in Sweden than in the USA, because you don't have to pay any tuition fees which makes it much more economically feasible, regardless of social background). Even so, my genuine impression is that the less privileged portions of Swedish society are much more educated in general than in the USA. Case in point: While American hiphop music distracts the masses from the problems of their society with lyrics about bling, the American dream and sexy bitches (while reinforcing gender stereotypes with their music videos) the Swedish equivalent, to a much higher degree, takes up subjects like social frustration and injustices in society.
Fuck prrofreading.
This was too good i had to share it with you guys
Young Conservatives ‏@YoungCons 1h
Big government liberals celebrating Independence Day is like atheists celebrating Christmas.
apparently liberals aren't allowed to be proud of their country
EDIT: also want to share this because apparently this is an upstanding example of conservative humor with over 249,000 likes on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/TheComicalConservative
Young Conservatives ‏@YoungCons 1h
Big government liberals celebrating Independence Day is like atheists celebrating Christmas.
apparently liberals aren't allowed to be proud of their country
EDIT: also want to share this because apparently this is an upstanding example of conservative humor with over 249,000 likes on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/TheComicalConservative
You use the PoliGAF index. The more you like hookers the less fatherly you are and if you wrote a lot of the constitution/were an early president you're more founding-ly. It's really a simple ratio.
EDIT: That graph is upside down, everyone knows Ben Franklin was more like your drunk uncle who loved hookers than he was a father figure.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That would put Sam Adams closer to fatherliness though and I sure as fuck wouldn't want Sam Adams as a father. The real problem is that Madison and Franklin need to swap places.
That would probably do it
Apparently they're unaware that atheists can (and do) Celebrate Christmas.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Apparently. Sure Christmas has roots in Christianity, but the spirit of family and giving and cheerfulness can be shared by everyone.
Actually it has roots in pagan festivals and got co-opted by Christianity.
I'm Agnostic and I have always celebrated Christmas. All the gift giving and tree decorating except minus the Jesus.
Also, that page made me die a little inside.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Most of the commentators on that page are white. Not surprised at all. Also, completely antagonistic.
zero shift
Banned
ClassyPenguin
Banned
You know how Christopher Hitchens said most totalitarian governments are cliched without irony? Well, same for them I guess.
Well if you want to pick nits, your body's mitochondrial DNA is separate from your cellular DNA...
So I'm looking through the page and I'm trying to figure out how any of it is funny. If that's the best of Conservative Comedy...well I suppose the joke it's not funny.
What about conjoined twins and chimeras?
speculawyer
Member
And lets use a picture that shows a fetus at a stage of when less than 0.1% of abortions are are performed.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Facts are irrelevant when you are trying to capture the emotional response.
Seriously, mention that PP discloses that abortion referrals are less than 4% of their services and watch them spout the lies. From being racist and eugenic to being called murderers and Nazi's.
Seriously, mention that PP discloses that abortion referrals are less than 4% of their services and watch them spout the lies. From being racist and eugenic to being called murderers and Nazi's.
zero shift
Banned
I mean is the fetus conscious? Can it feel pain?
I can't take any pro-lifer argument seriously since they have demonstrated this is only an effort to win an abstract morality point. Because once a baby is born, they don't seem to give a shit. Infant mortality, guns in schools, schools next to potentially explosive fertilizer operations... do not give a shit. They don't have any empathy for the unborn. They just want to stand on higher ground so god might take notice of them when they ascend to heaven, while they ignore the world around them.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4180592.stm
Nervve being stimulated does not always equate pain. It can be just the nerves reacting on a biological level.
TacticalFox88
Banned
The thing that blows my mind is that WHY are we STILL having this conversation when this shit was upheld over FORTY years ago!?
Like, Christ, Conservatives don't let ANYTHING go.
You lost the Abortion debate two generations ago. It's not going away. That ship has sailed.
Like, Christ, Conservatives don't let ANYTHING go.
You lost the Abortion debate two generations ago. It's not going away. That ship has sailed.
empty vessel
Member
Thanks for posting. Public media is clearly empirically superior to private for-profit entertainment companies at disseminating relevant information to the public. APKmetsfan is more interested in defending the status quo of the USA than identifying successful mechanisms for enhancing democracy.
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