Support NeoGAF

[UnlimitedRx]

What do you have proof OF?

That the State (and other departments and stakeholders) couldn't agree on messaging about a geopol crime for 24 hours?

[/IMG]

Where are you getting 24 hours from? Susan Rice went on TV and blamed a YouTube video for 4 deaths 5 days after the attack. 5 days.

See when you say stuff like that, it makes me think that you are just blindly defending politicians with whom you agree. Because if you took even the slightest bit of time to read about what actually happened, you wouldn't say stuff that is so blatantly wrong.

Just remember... "IT'S NOT REAL!!!" Hahaha

 

[The Librarian]

Jeez, PoliGAF, why can't you be this entertaining all the time?

 

[Dram]

Are Republicans really hoping this will lead to Obama's impeachment?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Are Republicans really hoping this will lead to Obama's impeachment?

Only the insane people (Teabaggers) think it's about that. The establishment ones are just trying to fuck over Hillary under that cover.

 

[UnlimitedRx]

Are Republicans really hoping this will lead to Obama's impeachment?

I'm sure some are. Probably the same ones who wanted him impeached for being from Kenya....

 

[Dram]

What are the chances this hurts Hillary, if she decides to run? It didn't seem to have any impact on the last election, what are the chances it will four years from now?

 

[120v]

What are the chances this hurts Hillary, if she decides to run? It didn't seem to have any impact on the last election, what are the chances it will four years from now?

i dunno but using as benghazi as a platform in 2016 would be pretty hilarious... and sad

 

[speculawyer]

Actually what she said makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, neither of the two ways she characterized the attack where accurate. It wasn't a protest and it wasn't just "guys out for a walk who decided to kill Americans". It was a premeditated terrorist attack carried out by a known group of Islamic extremists.

Also, how in one sentence can she say it doesn't matter what motivated the attack. Basically, she said what does it matter why they did it. And then in the next say "it is our job to investigate and prevent further violence. Well in order to do that, it helps to understand who attacked you and why. So it does make a difference.

Sure . . . it was poorly articulated. But the sentiment was that it doesn't matter if it was X or Y, either way we need to investigate and figure out it what happened and prevent it.


This is just like the "You didn't build that quote" where in the full context it was clear that he was talking about the roads, bridges, and other public infrastructure that supports businesses but in part of the paragraph it isn't quite clear and they jump all over it flubbed line taken out of context and portray Obama as saying the opposite of what he was saying.

If your views can only be supported by flubbed lines taken out of context then you really don't have a decent point.

And all of that talk is pretty hypocritical after her department spent the first week lying about who carried out the attack and why they did it. (Again, they knew it wasn't a YouTube video protest and they knew it was a premeditated attack carried out by Ansar al Sharia before Susan Rice went out and misled the American people 6 weeks before an election.

Misled the people either by accident or by not wanting to tip off the terrorists about the investigation for a few days followed by 6 weeks of the full truth being out and 6 weeks of Fox News going Beghazi! Beghazi! Beghazi! Ultimately, no one gave a shit except the people trying to manufacture a scandal and it still remains that way today.

But please . . . be my guest and try to run on Beghazi! Beghazi! Beghazi! in 2014 and 2016. It didn't work in 2012 but I'm sure it will work years later. Good luck with that.

 

[speculawyer]

]It's also worth mentioning that the CIA apparently had an Ansar al Sharia hideout bugged and didn't want the group to find out, hence why they were slow to reveal that information; republicans essentially blew an under cover operation[/B]. They know the WH can't talk about all this stuff openly, and have used the silence to spread nonsense. That of course doesn't excuse the WH's poor handling of all of this or the State Dep lying about the video.

Interestingly, I wonder if the video might have been an attempt to hide the Ansar al Sharia bug. IE if the group believes the US thinks the video was responsible for the attack, they'd be relaxed and easier to catch. Godfather II style.

Yep, that was a point I kept raising back then.

You don't want to tip off the people you are trying to catch that you are onto them. Columbo can get away with it but in general, it is a bad move.

 

[BLACKLAC]

What are the chances this hurts Hillary, if she decides to run? It didn't seem to have any impact on the last election, what are the chances it will four years from now?

0

Republicans need something to cry about and Obama has given them nothing.

 

[Jackson50]

As I've noted before, one of the unfortunate failures from Obama's first term was the languid effort to fill judicial vacancies. And the number of judicial vacancies remains astonishingly high. He's not entirely culpable as Republicans are determined to occlude the process. But even the number of nominees from Democratic states is low. Hopefully, he'll prioritize filling vacancies in the forthcoming months.

The youth turn out from 2012 is deplorable. 41 % of people my age voted this election? Down 7.3%? Jesus.

There is a sizable discrepancy between the CPS supplement and the exit polls. The exit polls are more favorable towards youth turnout, so the magnitude of the decline might be exaggerated. But the CPS is rather dismal. Again, it depends on the degree of non-response bias.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Where are you getting 24 hours from? Susan Rice went on TV and blamed a YouTube video for 4 deaths 5 days after the attack. 5 days.

And?

To what consequence?

Look, there are things far more improtant to address than why the messaging was inconsistent about benghazi. Like what happened before the attack and what we can learn from the attack in order to prevent further attacks. The CIA and State departments wrestling with each other over the messaging after the attack is at the bottom of the list on our concerns.

That's why no one takes the GOP seriously. You know that this is the exact thing we need to do:

"Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk last night who decided to kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, Senator."

And that, since that is what the obama administration did, the only way you can try to turn this into a Katrina/Watergate-level scandal is to focus on the internal politics over messaging between the State department and the CIA. Something that just doesn't matter in the ultimate scheme of things.

 

[Amir0x]

You have to admire Republican persistence... after decades of some of the most corrupt governments ever put together, they're now playing moral high road because some fuckers argued over talking points. I mean, seriously

where is the outrage from Tea Party/Republican nutcases over Obama constantly attacking our civil liberties? I guess many of them just keep quiet about it because it was good ol' Bush who really got the ball rolling on the modern era of civil liberties destruction, so I guess that is of far less of a concern than some fucking talking points edits.

Jesus christ

 

[Metaphoreus]

This is just like the "You didn't build that quote" where in the full context it was clear that he was talking about the roads, bridges, and other public infrastructure that supports businesses but in part of the paragraph it isn't quite clear and they jump all over it flubbed line taken out of context and portray Obama as saying the opposite of what he was saying.

Really? From Wikipedia:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me – because they want to give something back. They know they didn't – look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

From this, it's obvious that Obama is not referring to roads or public education as that which "you" didn't build. To what person would he be responding if that was his meaning? What business person has ever claimed to have built the roads, or to have educated his employees? What Obama is saying is clearly that, because of those other things being provided by government, the successful person didn't become successful merely as a result of his or her own actions. Whether you agree with this sentiment or not, you can't seriously deny that that is his thesis.

It's possible that Wikipedia omits so much of the context that his meaning is unclear; I haven't watched the speech or read a full version, so feel free to add in any additional context you think is required to clarify Obama's meaning.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Really? From Wikipedia:



From this, it's obvious that Obama is not referring to roads or public education as that which "you" didn't build. To what person would he be responding if that was his meaning? What business person has ever claimed to have built the roads, or to have educated his employees? What Obama is saying is clearly that, because of those other things being provided by government, the successful person didn't become successful merely as a result of his or her own actions. Whether you agree with this sentiment or not, you can't seriously deny that that is his thesis.

It's possible that Wikipedia omits so much of the context that his meaning is unclear; I haven't watched the speech or read a full version, so feel free to add in any additional context you think is required to clarify Obama's meaning.

This is what obama was referencing. As has been mentioned a billion times

 

[Metaphoreus]

This is what obama was referencing. As has been mentioned a billion times

I'm not sure why you're acting frustrated. Even the Wikipedia entry I linked to refers to that. It doesn't change my criticism of speculawyer.

 

[Gotchaye]

I'm not sure why you're acting frustrated. Even the Wikipedia entry I linked to refers to that. It doesn't change my criticism of speculawyer.

It's an issue of emphasis. The "that" is referring to public infrastructure. Emphasizing that business owners didn't build public infrastructure is about communicating that they're not wholly responsible for their own success. Reading "that" as their businesses themselves makes it sound like he's saying that business owners play no role in their own success.

 

[Metaphoreus]

It's an issue of emphasis. The "that" is referring to public infrastructure. Emphasizing that business owners didn't build public infrastructure is about communicating that they're not wholly responsible for their own success. Reading "that" as their businesses themselves makes it sound like he's saying that business owners play no role in their own success.

I think this is pure spin, and unnecessary spin at that. From the context, it doesn't make sense that he would be referring to the roads or an educated labor pool as "that" which was not built by business owners. The more logical construction is to recognize that there is an implicit "alone" or "by yourself" that should be understood at the end of "you didn't build that." But to try to say that "that" refers to that which it clearly does not refer to reeks of weak campaign-season apologetics.

 

[Amir0x]

I cannot believe we're relitigating 2012 election-era fud that has been debunked 9 trillion times by people who actually understand the goddamn English language

 

[GhaleonEB]

Where are you getting 24 hours from? Susan Rice went on TV and blamed a YouTube video for 4 deaths 5 days after the attack. 5 days.

So what? The consequences of this are.....nothing. Nada. Nill.

 

[Black Mamba]

He was quite clearly referring to the roads and infrastructure and teachers etc and any argument otherwise is wrong and a demonstration in a misunderstanding of what is being said.

I'd argue to interpret it otherwise is poor comprehension skills or deceit.

 

[GaimeGuy]

He was quite clearly referring to the roads and infrastructure and teachers etc and any argument otherwise is wrong and a demonstration in a misunderstanding of what is being said.

I'd argue to interpret it otherwise is poor comprehension skills or deceit.

Or stupidity.

I honestly feel like the intelligence of our political discourse is 3rd or 4th grade level.

 

[Metaphoreus]

I cannot believe we're relitigating 2012 election-era fud that has been debunked 9 trillion times by people who actually understand the goddamn English language

Well, excuse me, Princess. On the topic of understanding "the goddamn English language," though, "relitigating" doesn't mean what you think it means.

He was quite clearly referring to the roads and infrastructure and teachers etc and any argument otherwise is wrong and a demonstration in a misunderstanding of what is being said.

I'd argue to interpret it otherwise is poor comprehension skills or deceit.

Ad hominems aren't known for their helpfulness in resolving arguments.

That said, I went back and reread the relevant paragraph and watched video of the speech, and I think you're right about his meaning. Mea culpa, speculawyer and others.

 

[PhoenixDark]

That said, I went back and reread the relevant paragraph and watched video of the speech, and I think you're right about his meaning. Mea culpa, speculawyer and others.

Honestly I don't see how anyone can watch that entire segment of the speech and not "get" what he was saying.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, excuse me, Princess. On the topic of understanding "the goddamn English language," though, "relitigating" doesn't mean what you think it means.

Sorry Metaphoreus, it means exactly what I think it means. Probably got your info from the same school where you learned how to incorrectly interpret simple fucking speeches.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Honestly I don't see how anyone can watch that entire segment of the speech and not "get" what he was saying.

If they go in watching it wanting to view it a certain way, they'll almost always view it that way. It doesn't matter what he actually says or means - the person has already decided that for themselves prior to watching the speech.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Sorry Metaphoreus, it means exactly what I think it means. Probably got your info from the same school where you learned how to incorrectly interpret simple fucking speeches.

Well, I certainly didn't get it from Wiktionary. Neither Merriam Webster nor Oxford Dictionaries Online define "relitigate," though Merriam Webster does list "dispute" as an archaic meaning of "litigate" (even though the Latin root requires a "lawsuit," much like the sole modern meaning). Let me put it this way: It's 2013 and people are still using "relitigate" to mean "to dispute again"? SMH.

 

[Amir0x]

Let me put it this way: It's 2013 and people are still using "relitigate" to mean "to dispute again"? SMH.

Yes, including the president of the United States called Barack Hussein Obama

Damn Harvard Law school students, always fuckin' shit up for the real english users

 

[Novid]

Yall don't get it. and never will.

Im sorry to say this - but you folks live and die on the symbols you know and the reality that you refuse to face.

The reality is that the IRS did this shit and people need to start swinging. All the while folks are going to jail in the hood for missing a IRS payment because the IRS fucked up.

I have Glenn Beck ranting, Jeannine Pirello throwing half truth bombs (but then throwing video game fans under the bus, bad form) but PoliGaf's tsun-tsun waifu - Amy Martin Or Miss Maddow - take your pick, there both the same person - with tepid responses to both arguments that don't push shit forward.

Then we got the sophists like PhoenixDark with the butcher of Benghazi nonsense. Look Phoenix, I don't much like house maccas like you, your the every definition of what's wrong with African American folk today, and I don't even consider you a fucking human being with actual human empathy for people. But if you are looking for any butcher of Benghazi - look no further than Miss Rice, or better yet the President of the United States/the CIA. They bungled this bullshit. Its just not on Hillbots head and lead to the death of our ambassador to Libya.

And yall complain about Glenn Greenwald? Yall JOKING RIGHT? Hes the one that should the president of CBS News to be quite honest with you - but Les Moonves is too busy trying to show his wife's Asian school girl cosplaying bullshit to even care. At least Glenn Greenwald is honest from DAY ONE.

And yall complain about Glenn Beck, but I see nothing but bullshit from the posters conserving how the Young Turks handled their Youtube videos? AT LEAST Glenn was upfront about what he was going to do - the Turks lead you on. At least he made his money and doing what he wants to do with his cash. I don't see anybody else doing it without some sort of angel fund or some sort of foundation who never gave a fuck about the poor and whatnot.

And then we have Mr Pelley - sure nobody likes the smug dude. Hes uptight - hes not COOL as Anderson Cooper or no where near as funny as John Stewart etc. etc. But he made a point in a speech at Quinnipiac University - "Why the fuck should the FBI and the POTUS tell me what to report?" I gave him his answer right now - Your second boss is the Obama press sectaries brother and Les Moonves is a punk ass bitch who is censoring you and Atkinson concerning not only Benghazi but Aereo and the Dish Hopper tech. That's your answer.

Don't blame Glenn Beck
Don't blame Fox News
Don't blame Alex Jones.
Don't blame Ben Swann.
Don't blame Amy Martin
Don't blame Jenine Pierro.

You put the blame Poligaf, especially the baby boomers that go here (HI!) on your fucking self's. YALL did this, and yall going to fix it, because when we do it your not going to like the fucking result. End of story.

 

[Amir0x]

Forget our dispute, Metaphoreus, because holy LOL:

Then we got the sophists like PhoenixDark with the butcher of Benghazi nonsense. Look Phoenix, I don't much like house maccas like you, your the every definition of what's wrong with African American folk today, and I don't even consider you a fucking human being with actual human empathy for people. But if you are looking for any butcher of Benghazi - look no further than Miss Rice, or better yet the President of the United States/the CIA. They bungled this bullshit. Its just not on Hillbots head and lead to the death of our ambassador to Libya.

This shit is hilarious. You don't even know why that avatar was chosen, or is this whole post of yours satire?

 

[B-Dubs]

Forget our dispute, Metaphoreus, because holy LOL:



This shit is hilarious. You don't even know why that avatar was chosen, or is this whole post of yours satire?

I'm still trying to figure out what he's talking about.

 

[sc0la]

Forget our dispute, Metaphoreus, because holy LOL:



This shit is hilarious. You don't even know why that avatar was chosen, or is this whole post of yours satire?

amazing haha

 

[Novid]

Forget our dispute, Metaphoreus, because holy LOL:



This shit is hilarious. You don't even know why that avatar was chosen, or is this whole post of yours satire?

Quite honestly I don't even know what why he had the avatar on because I don't even post on Poligaf until election season.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Forget our dispute, Metaphoreus...

We'd dragged it on for too long, anyways.

 

[Amir0x]

Quite honestly I don't even know what why he had the avatar on because I don't even post on Poligaf until election season.

It was a lost bet over the election. he was forced to wear it lol.

 

[Mike M]

Hey PoliGAF, what's going on in here tod--

...

What the fuck happened?

 

[Tamanon]

Hey PoliGAF, what's going on in here tod--

...

What the fuck happened?

Obama Lied, causing the death of four Americans.

 

[The Technomancer]

Obama Lied, causing the death of four Americans.

Obama bin Lieden

 

[Black Mamba]

Yall don't get it. and never will.

Im sorry to say this - but you folks live and die on the symbols you know and the reality that you refuse to face.

The reality is that the IRS did this shit and people need to start swinging. All the while folks are going to jail in the hood for missing a IRS payment because the IRS fucked up.

I have Glenn Beck ranting, Jeannine Pirello throwing half truth bombs (but then throwing video game fans under the bus, bad form) but PoliGaf's tsun-tsun waifu - Amy Martin Or Miss Maddow - take your pick, there both the same person - with tepid responses to both arguments that don't push shit forward.

Then we got the sophists like PhoenixDark with the butcher of Benghazi nonsense. Look Phoenix, I don't much like house maccas like you, your the every definition of what's wrong with African American folk today, and I don't even consider you a fucking human being with actual human empathy for people. But if you are looking for any butcher of Benghazi - look no further than Miss Rice, or better yet the President of the United States/the CIA. They bungled this bullshit. Its just not on Hillbots head and lead to the death of our ambassador to Libya.

And yall complain about Glenn Greenwald? Yall JOKING RIGHT? Hes the one that should the president of CBS News to be quite honest with you - but Les Moonves is too busy trying to show his wife's Asian school girl cosplaying bullshit to even care. At least Glenn Greenwald is honest from DAY ONE.

And yall complain about Glenn Beck, but I see nothing but bullshit from the posters conserving how the Young Turks handled their Youtube videos? AT LEAST Glenn was upfront about what he was going to do - the Turks lead you on. At least he made his money and doing what he wants to do with his cash. I don't see anybody else doing it without some sort of angel fund or some sort of foundation who never gave a fuck about the poor and whatnot.

And then we have Mr Pelley - sure nobody likes the smug dude. Hes uptight - hes not COOL as Anderson Cooper or no where near as funny as John Stewart etc. etc. But he made a point in a speech at Quinnipiac University - "Why the fuck should the FBI and the POTUS tell me what to report?" I gave him his answer right now - Your second boss is the Obama press sectaries brother and Les Moonves is a punk ass bitch who is censoring you and Atkinson concerning not only Benghazi but Aereo and the Dish Hopper tech. That's your answer.

Don't blame Glenn Beck
Don't blame Fox News
Don't blame Alex Jones.
Don't blame Ben Swann.
Don't blame Amy Martin
Don't blame Jenine Pierro.

You put the blame Poligaf, especially the baby boomers that go here (HI!) on your fucking self's. YALL did this, and yall going to fix it, because when we do it your not going to like the fucking result. End of story.

 

[Enron]

Oh, I see PoliGAF has now been introduced to the walking entertainment factory of WUT, Novid.

 

[Jooney]

Yeah PD, stop being everything that is wrong with African American folk today. Get it together, man.

 

[Mike M]

Oh, I see PoliGAF has now been introduced to the walking entertainment factory of WUT, Novid.

Nah, I was familiar back when he was pretending to be involved in the production of the Thundercats reboot and got caught.

Oh well, he's gone now.

 

[VALIS]

Turns out this was a good time to randomly click on PoliGAF. Wow.

 

[Link]

You have to admire Republican persistence... after decades of some of the most corrupt governments ever put together, they're now playing moral high road because some fuckers argued over talking points. I mean, seriously

where is the outrage from Tea Party/Republican nutcases over Obama constantly attacking our civil liberties? I guess many of them just keep quiet about it because it was good ol' Bush who really got the ball rolling on the modern era of civil liberties destruction, so I guess that is of far less of a concern than some fucking talking points edits.

Jesus christ

Right here!

Well, excuse me, Princess.

I think that's my line.

Turns out this was a good time to randomly click on PoliGAF. Wow.

Most action we've seen in months!

 

[B-Dubs]

Nah, I was familiar back when he was pretending to be involved in the production of the Thundercats reboot and got caught.

Oh well, he's gone now.

He did that? :lol

Aaaand now he's banned.

 

[Metaphoreus]

I think that's my line.

Well played.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait, Novid's post wasn't satire?

 

[B-Dubs]

Wait, Novid's post wasn't satire?

Beats me, I still don't understand about half of it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yeah PD, stop being everything that is wrong with African American folk today. Get it together, man.

We all have our quirks. They say i'm a pretty bad Jew.

 

[Amir0x]

We all have our quirks. They say i'm a pretty bad Jew.

I am the worst with money. The worst. Jew stereotypes fail again