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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Both left wing and right wing anarchy make very little sense to me. The left form of it seems odd to me, like I have a hard time between distinguishing between anarchism and communism. What is it like a united band of socialist communities?

Right anarchism is odd. It is like begging for a Mad Max reality. It is essentially a decision making process of California's popular vote applied for every solution with like virtually no laws or regulations,
 

benjipwns

Banned
The critiques are the same, the disagreement is what the resultant society will look like.

"Right" anarchists decry "left" as not realizing their system requires coercive violence because human history proves people will acquire and trade in property.
"Left" decry "right" as not realizing their system requires coercive violence because human history proves property will lead to monopolized violence.

I personally think the flaw in orthodox Communism is the idea that the dictatorship of the proletariat will ever go away. Bakunin savaged Marx, Lenin and anyone else over this endlessly until he (and I think Kropotkin too) got kicked out but they still clung to Communism. I forget the name of the guy, which is embarrassing, who went the same path but came to a similar conclusion as my personal one that eventually people will start trying to own property and many communists will give up anarchism for coercive violence.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Want to say fun talk instead of boring minutiae drivel tonight and that I did go deeper for effect, you corporate mafia shills.

I do think conflating society with government and vice versa is a incredibly dangerous idea though. Especially since it's pretty much exactly what that one Italian dude was advocating in the 1920's. (Not that he was the first. Or last.)
 
Want to say fun talk instead of boring minutiae drivel tonight and that I did go deeper for effect, you corporate mafia shills.

I do think conflating society with government and vice versa is a incredibly dangerous idea though. Especially since it's pretty much exactly what that one Italian dude was advocating in the 1920's. (Not that he was the first. Or last.)

I can totally see when you completely ignore and misconstrue what people say how you draw the comparison to fascism otherwise that's not whats being said.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Since APK was so kind in actually hunting down book/author suggestions for someone he felt is misinformed, I'll do the same just in case anyone has minor interest in poking around wikipedia or wikiquote pages at least (lol, never will happen), many of them wrote pamphlets or articles more than books so it's easier to just find collected things than lone books for some, most older works are free somewhere:
Voltairine de Cleyre
Mikhail Bakunin (Statism and Anarchy(ism...depends on publisher))
Peter Krotopkin (Mutual Aid; The Conquest of Bread)
Benjamin Tucker (had a journal Liberty for most of his writing)
Auberon Herbert
Isabel Paterson
Murray Rothbard (the anarcho-capitalist devil who never got up before noon)
Michael Huemer (The Problem of Political Authority, best political book released in decades if not more)
Samuel Edward Konkin, Sheldon Richmand, Roderick T. Long, Kevin Carson who are easiest found through http://c4ss.org/ and http://praxeology.net/all-left.htm
Albert Jay Nock
I guess you're required by anarchist law to include David Friedman
Frederic Bastiat (not an anarchist, but just because he's the god king of all politics)

I can totally see when you completely ignore and misconstrue what people say how you draw the comparison to fascism otherwise that's not whats being said.
So the state and society aren't the same thing now?
 
So the state and society aren't the same thing now?

No, it is, but your conclusions about what that entails is completely your own opinion and not what's being claimed.

Yeah, that book list confirms there's no point in discussions. Its not about the fact I'm not open, its just those ideas provide no common ground which to debate. And in my personal opinion anarchism is probably the most ridiculous political philosophy.
 
I do think conflating society with government and vice versa is a incredibly dangerous idea though. Especially since it's pretty much exactly what that one Italian dude was advocating in the 1920's. (Not that he was the first. Or last.)

I don't understand how you don't conflate society with government absent denying rules for individuals within society. And I don't think it has anything to do with an Italian dude in the 1920's. The US had a government in the 1920s.
 

benjipwns

Banned
No, it is, but your conclusions about what that entails is completely your own opinion and not what's being claimed.
I don't understand how you don't conflate society with government absent denying rules for individuals within society. And I don't think it has anything to do with an Italian dude in the 1920's. The US had a government in the 1920s.
I don't understand what the difference is between your view that the society and the state are the same thing and the core theory of fascism. It argues that there's literally nothing of value outside the state and nothing of value can exist outside it. (Like cell phones!) It claims you owe a debt to the state/society and thus it is your duty to obey.

The difference really only lies in that Mussolini didn't see a need for the fig leaf of democracy since you owed and were owned by the state/society anyway and you should just follow its rules since it knows the public interest best. And education in time would improve your standing as you came to understand the public interest.

(And to be fair, that version of fascism was more militaristic.)

And in my personal opinion anarchism is probably the most ridiculous political philosophy.
Why? It's the only one that rejects the use of coercive violence for personal gain which makes it pretty much the only sane one.

All others are just variations on might makes right.
 
See, discussion like this is why I consider abosolutist libertarians the craziness. After all, if I squint, I can understand why folks like Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee has fond memories of basically, their childhood where being abnormal was shunned, everybody followed societies rules, and everything fell apart once people were allowed to do whatever they wanted.

I can understand, even say, a less absolutist Wall Street guy making the argument that without the massive growth in inequality, there wouldn't even be the tech boom of the late 90's. Same thing with people I disagree with on my left, even the hardcore Communists, cause I can imagine a world where youe office, town, and such are built on democratic councils.

But, I can't understand how anybody can believe that an anarchic state leads to anything good except for those with the most weapons, power, or cunning. I mean, yeah, when I was fifth grade, I imagined being the lord of all I surveyed in the aftermath of an apocalypse. But, as I got older, I realized the more than likely, I wouldn't be king. I'd be the one sent as cannon fodder in a territorial dispute or being kept as slave labor.
 

benjipwns

Banned
But, I can't understand how anybody can believe that an anarchic state leads to anything good except for those with the most weapons, power, or cunning. I mean, yeah, when I was fifth grade, I imagined being the lord of all I surveyed in the aftermath of an apocalypse. But, as I got older, I realized the more than likely, I wouldn't be king. I'd be the one sent as cannon fodder in a territorial dispute or being kept as slave labor.
So you're saying it'll be the same as pretending the state has legitimacy in doing those things?

I don't see why that's reason to grant its actions legitimacy.

This is really the core nugget of this whole thing.

The fear is that denying legitimacy of monopoly will result in "those with the most weapons, power or cunning" to come to power. And likely send the masses to their deaths in silly elite disputes or be kept as slaves or serfs. Yet we've spent thousands of years giving legitimacy to the state's monopoly and it's resulted in every single one of these things. Time and time again. In recent times the most powerful gang on Earth sent a bunch of its citizens into another state in the Middle East because the elites wanted to. But that's okay, because it's legitimate for states to do that.

If a gang seized your hotel because it didn't like what other people were doing in it and then stole your car accusing it of crimes, people would lose their shit and demand something be done. The state does it regularly and nobody cares because it's legitimate for the state to bust "criminals" and seize property.

If a private corporation bulldozed down a bunch of neighborhoods and built a highway, or sports arena, or left it as a field, people would lose their shit. The state does it, and it's all legitimate. Necessary even, for the common good. Especially the common good of private corporations.

If the mafia comes to the door of your restaurant and says you better pay up because they hear things are rough in town lately, that's terrible. But the state sends a SWAT raid to bust people selling raw milk, they're heroes.

If a private corporation dropped a bomb on an apartment complex setting an entire block on fire, I'd imagine they'd get sued at least. The state does it and nobody goes to jail and the taxpayers pay one of the harmed citizens.

A bunch of crazy shit goes on with housing and the financial world and nobody goes to jail and the state bails all sorts of people out instead and then enacts more policy to assist the big financial corporations. And grants all kinds of immunity, just like with the spying.

The hypothetical horrors of a world where coercive violence is considered illegitimate and doubly so for any corporation to monopolize it pale in comparison to the actual history of the horrors of the state. And even worse, fail to realize that the anarchic hell they imagine is the one they're already living in. With both the good and bad warts.

La Boetie nailed it in the 16th century, since consent can be given, consent can be withdrawn and is the only true check on state power. Telling people they consented (because you said so) and cannot revoke their consent is to deny them any actual form of opposition against those who seek to rule over them. And even worse, paints over the fact that violence will be used against anyone who chooses not to consent, rendering it involuntary consent.

You wouldn't allow this form of consent in any relationship with any individual or any set of individuals, let alone a corporation. Yet, it is not just legitimate but necessary for the state to operate under the auspices of your consent no matter how acquired.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Since I derailed the thread from its regularly scheduled programming, and always knew nobody would agree even though I find such debate enlightening, and since I have more or less summed up the bulk of my response to the concerns of rejecting legitimacy I will take it upon myself to put things a bit more back on track:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/205721-dems-reject-gop-offer-on-benghazi
House Democratic leaders on Friday rejected a Republican proposal designed to entice the minority party into participating in a special investigation of the deadly 2012 attack on U.S. diplomats in Benghazi, Libya.

...

"I consider it a slap in the face," Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), the ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said after a closed-door meeting with Democratic leaders in Pelosi's office in the Capitol. "It is actually worse than the current situation that we have in Oversight and Government Reform [Committee]. It's a step backwards."

In a Friday letter to Boehner, Pelosi echoed that message.

"Regrettably, the proposal does not prevent the unacceptable and repeated abuses committed by [Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)] in any meaningful way, and we find it fundamentally unfair," Pelosi wrote.

Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill said, "The ball is in their court."

Boehner spokesman Michael Steel suggested the Speaker was done negotiating.

"We made a fair offer," he said. "We hope they appoint members. At this point, it's time to get to work."

...

"It basically left the door open for abuse, the same kind of abuse as we saw in Oversight and Government Reform," Cummings said.

Democrats are not ready to boycott the panel, Cummings said. Instead, staffers for Boehner and Pelosi will continue their discussions, even as the House leaves town Friday for a week-long recess

"I'm hopeful that the conversations will continue," Cummings said. "But right now, what he has sent is extremely … disappointing."
 

benjipwns

Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/u...on-voting-laws-is-alienating-blacks.html?_r=0
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky broke Friday with fellow Republicans who have pushed for stricter voting laws as a way to crack down on fraud at the polls, saying that the focus on such measures alienates and insults African-Americans and hurts the party.

“Everybody’s gone completely crazy on this voter ID thing,” Mr. Paul said in an interview. “I think it’s wrong for Republicans to go too crazy on this issue because it’s offending people.”

...

Mr. Paul was in Memphis for the Republican National Committee’s spring meeting, but beforehand, he sat down to discuss his views on voting rights, public education and antipoverty policies with a group of black pastors.

Afterward, in a news conference, Mr. Paul admitted he still had a lot of work to do. Sometimes, he said, his audiences tell him: “I like what you’re saying. I’m still not voting for you.”

“That’s why you’ve got to keep saying it,” he said.

...

He is not getting much support from Republican leaders in his efforts to change the discussion or the party’s tone. Colin L. Powell and Michael Steele, the former party chairman, have spoken against the restrictions. But no ranking Republican has done so, and there was no indication Friday that any would change their minds.

Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, often seen as a party rival to Mr. Paul, has said that it is unfortunate that it is “minority voters who are the victims of that fraud,” but that governments “should not be working to undermine the integrity of our elections.”

...

In the interview, Mr. Paul also stressed his commitment to restoring voting rights for felons, an issue that he said black crowds repeatedly brought up during his speeches.

“The bigger issue actually is whether you get to vote if you have a felony conviction,” he said. “There’s 180,000 people in Kentucky who can’t vote. And I don’t know the racial breakdown, but it’s probably more black than white because they’re convicted felons. And I’m for getting their right to vote back, which is a much bigger deal than showing your driver’s license.”

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/louie-gohmert-gay-rights-nazis
After he said that Christians really "love homosexuals," Gohmert channeled Martin Niemöller while lamenting the persecution of gay marriage opponents.

So it is amazing that in the name of liberality, in the name of being tolerant, this fascist intolerance has arisen. People that stand up and say, you know, I agree with the majority of Americans, I agree with Moses and Jesus that marriage was a man and a woman, now all of a sudden, people like me are considered haters, hate mongers, evil, which really is exactly what we've seen throughout our history as going back to the days of the Nazi takeover in Europe. What did they do? First, they would call people "haters" and "evil" and build up disdain for those people who held those opinions or religious views or religious heritage. And then the next came, well, those people are so evil and hateful, let's bring every book that they've written or has to do with them and let's start burning the books, because we can't tolerate their intolerance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJa-6LgLTA
 
Which logic? I doubt that a substantial portion of donors act at the behest of lobbyists.
the-point.jpg


I think you're intentionally obfuscating now. Whatever, I'm done.
 

Chichikov

Member
Since I derailed the thread from its regularly scheduled programming, and always knew nobody would agree even though I find such debate enlightening, and since I have more or less summed up the bulk of my response to the concerns of rejecting legitimacy I will take it upon myself to put things a bit more back on track:
I actually enjoy such debates very very much, much more than discussing election polls half a year before the next election.
And by the way, I would like to add that I think you totally have a point about not choosing the country you belong to.
The idea of the consent of the governed is mainly theoretical in our modern world, and for those who think it isn't a concern, I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you don't believe in the very tenets your country was founded on and you want to get the fuck out of there. It can happen and it's not fun.
People talk about white privilege, and rightfully so, but there is no bigger privilege in today's world than being born into the "right" country.
And while I don't agree with your solution, at least in the philosophical level, I am a firm believer in free association. But it might be worth noting that this is a problem of the nation state model, not of democracy.

I'm not sure what the solution (save us superabundance!) as I don't know how you transition to such system without fucking things up pretty badly, but if I was really honest, it would mostly fuck up people in the developed world.

And on a personal level, as much as I disagree with market anarchism, I'll take any sort of anarchist over an authoritarian, easily.
 

bonercop

Member
So you're saying it'll be the same as pretending the state has legitimacy in doing those things?

I don't see why that's reason to grant its actions legitimacy.

This is really the core nugget of this whole thing.

The fear is that denying legitimacy of monopoly will result in "those with the most weapons, power or cunning" to come to power. And likely send the masses to their deaths in silly elite disputes or be kept as slaves or serfs. Yet we've spent thousands of years giving legitimacy to the state's monopoly and it's resulted in every single one of these things. Time and time again. In recent times the most powerful gang on Earth sent a bunch of its citizens into another state in the Middle East because the elites wanted to. But that's okay, because it's legitimate for states to do that.
I really dislike this meme where wildly different political systems are all labeled as "the state" . It feels very anachronistic. The modern democratic nation-state as we know it is a fairly recent invention(and before someone goes there: no, there are some fairly fundamental differences from ancient Greek democracy). For example: I'd argue that feudalism, which dominated Europe for nearly a millennia, is much closer to an anarchistic society with private property than it is to the modern concept of nation-states.

Serfs were bound to their lord by contracts. Sure, they might be contracts their grandfather entered and the lord might have used the threat of violence to force him, but it's important to keep in mind that it wasn't a king or an empire or a pope or some sinister central authority. In theory, a free peasant could simply pack up and go serve some other lord -- in practice, just like with laborers in modern society, that isn't really an option. And so, the vast majority of peasants in feudalistic societies were serfs. Shocking, I know!

Nowhere in this process was there some big bad state holding a monopoly over force or whatever -- Kings and lords mostly stayed out of their vassals' business, because their status as king was determined by how many property owners they could get on their side. This was even true between vassals and peasants. The only thing that truly determined your place in this social hierarchy was your ownership of property.

I can sympathize with the left-wing variety of anarchism; but I cannot fathom why someone would erase the state yet keep private property, something that inherently requires coercive violence.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Oh goddamnit, have I missed out on a monopoly on force debate?

Benji: my fundamental point of disagreement with your argument about different receptions between force of the government and orce of private institutions is the where authority is derived from.
 
Their not really interesting. They're annoying

Just curious, but why didn't Hillary classify Boko Haram is a terrorist organization back in 2011?

#benghazi

But really, there were downsides to doing it. They feared Nigeria would react badly and they would be able to do less to stop them
 

benjipwns

Banned
Since I gave this particular point short shift and there are a couple other replies here, I'd like to note again that the current international system is effectively anarchistic. Our "contracted defense corporation" has agreements with some nations and not others regarding extradition and the terms of that extradition, etc. France for example does not have a blanket agreement agreement with the United States. Many countries will not extradite criminals facing the death penalty. And yet rarely are other countries going to war with one another over a single criminal or a group of criminals. "Our corporations" effectively negotiate broad agreements with one another both reciprocal and less so in terms of trade, research, technology, etc. Yet most countries in the world are not invading others for resources or to shatter trade barriers. (Except the biggest and strongest?) And it's been some time (and really, historically rare) since chaos engulfed the entire planet.

I don't see why a modern society morally and intellectually with even more intertwined voluntary relationships wouldn't operate as well or better than the international system.
I'd argue that feudalism, which dominated Europe for nearly a millennia, is much closer to an anarchistic society with private property than it is to the modern concept of nation-states.
...
I can sympathize with the left-wing variety of anarchism; but I cannot fathom why someone would erase the state yet keep private property, something that inherently requires coercive violence.
I'd argue that then Enlightenment made a direct challenge to the central concept that people can be owned and the more common and modern stance of self-ownership changes that dynamic.

Benji: my fundamental point of disagreement with your argument about different receptions between force of the government and orce of private institutions is the where authority is derived from.
Yes, consent, but I contend that one consent is not freely gained despite the claim that it is. It's acquired under duress.
 

benjipwns

Banned
http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...-should-be-granted-immunity-andrew-c-mccarthy
In this week’s episode of the Capitol Hill soap opera, Lois Lerner, the apparatchik at the center of the IRS jihad against conservative groups, was at long, long last held in contempt of Congress. Amid the farce, the House’s IRS probe is floundering.

Ironically, this happens just as the chamber’s separate probe of the Benghazi massacre has been given a chance to succeed. That is because House speaker John Boehner, after over a year of delay, has finally agreed to appoint a “select committee” to investigate Benghazi. Congress has no constitutional authority to enforce the laws it writes, a power our system vests solely in the executive branch. But a select committee, with a mission to find out what happened — as opposed to conducting oversight through the prism of some committee’s narrow subject-matter jurisdiction (judiciary, budget, education, reform, etc.) — is the closest legislative analogue to a grand jury.

...

The IRS investigation, to the contrary, remains mired in Capitol Hill’s labyrinth of committees and subcommittees. To be sure, some important information has been uncovered. But the case is languishing. Indeed, during the House’s months of dithering over the contempt citation — which is meaningless from an investigative standpoint, however consequential it may be politically — the Obama administration has busied itself codifying the very abuses President Obama claimed to find “outrageous” and “unacceptable” when they first came to light.

In a competent investigation, one designed to find out what actually happened, Lois Lerner would have been immunized months ago. That is, Congress would have voted to compel her testimony by assuring that her statements could not be used against her in any future prosecution — removing the obstacle of her Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.

...

Lois Lerner clearly presents the second situation . . . though that is apparently less than clear to the folks running the House. Asked about the IRS scandal recently, Speaker Boehner declared, “I don’t care who is going to be fired. I want to know who is going to jail!” That’s a good, fiery sound bite for the campaign season, but it’s exactly wrong.

When officials prove unfit for government power, taking that power away is the highest public interest. Even if you’ve deluded yourself into thinking the Obama Justice Department would lift a finger to prosecute Lois Lerner, who cares if she ever sees the inside of a jail cell? What matters is laying bare the entirety of the scheme and finding out how high it goes: Who and what induced her to orchestrate the harassment of conservative groups? Why was the government’s fearsome tax agency placed in the service of the Democratic party’s political needs?

To get the answers to those questions, you need Ms. Lerner to testify. Instead, the House has wasted a full year chewing over a tough legal issue that, even if it were ultimately resolved in the Oversight Committee’s favor, would not get her any closer to answering questions — at least not for a long time.

...

“But wait,” you say, “if we immunize her, we can’t prosecute her.” My first impulse is to say, “So what?” If she testifies truthfully and gives a full account of what happened, we’ll be a lot more interested in pursuing the officials who instigated the scheme than in prosecuting those who carried it out. But if “Who is going to jail!” is really your big concern, immunity for Ms. Lerner does not protect her if she lies or obstructs the investigation. The statute of limitations on such crimes will not have run out when a new administration takes over in 2017. She could still be prosecuted, and the penalties for those crimes are more severe than whatever her actions at the IRS could have earned her.

If the House really wants to get to the bottom of the IRS abuses, it is long past time to immunize Lerner. Let’s find out what she knows and advance the public’s knowledge of the facts. It will then be possible to determine which, if any, higher-ranking officials in the Obama administration were involved: Were they active participants? Nod-and-a-wink approvers? Unknowing, incidental beneficiaries of the inability of conservative groups to organize effectively?
 

kehs

Banned
So first it was Joe Biden in the weekly address, this week it's Michelle.

Is that even allowed? I understand obama sleeping in from time to time, but isn't the address typically by POTUS?

Did Obama finally clock out?
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
You're very nice, aren't you?

Guh?

He was pretty populist during the 2012 primary so this isn't very shocking.

And well before that, though this summary is from the 2012 primary season:

His support of terrible and outdated ideas has long been practice.

I dunno if I would call Santorum "populist" during the election. The only thing that could even remotely resemble that was him advocating zero taxes on manufacturers, but that's pretty much the typical trickle-down garbage the Right has always been peddling.

However, I am quite surprised to see Santorum did previously support hiking the minimum wage in the past. Shame he somehow neglected to mention that during 2012.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
the-point.jpg


I think you're intentionally obfuscating now. Whatever, I'm done.

I suppose I'd be more offended by your graphic if I hadn't begun my prior response to you with a question indicating that I didn't understand your point.

If it helps change your mind about being done, I'm not intentionally obfuscating. I'm interested in understanding your argument, but I don't yet.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
And how is government supposed to be accountable to the people if it can lie intentionally without very good reasons for doing so? I don't understand why you would think it would hypothetically be okay for the government to lie in this case.

Because the "lie" in this case has absolutely no relevance, maybe? Maybe if the lie was part of a broader, more sinister cover up, then yeah, sure. But that wasn't the case. It makes no goddamned sense whatsoever.
 

benjipwns

Banned
However, I am quite surprised to see Santorum did previously support hiking the minimum wage in the past. Shame he somehow neglected to mention that during 2012.
I believe Perry or someone tried to attack him on it and Santorum's defense was along the lines of "well, I didn't vote for EVERY bill increasing the minimum wage and what's really important here is destroying non Christians"
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
"Guh" what? "Miserable existence." What makes his life miserable? The dude has been a senator in the United States Senate, a presidential candidate, and has a loving wife and family. What about that is miserable?

...seriously, Dax?
 

kingkitty

Member
I agree, I don't think it'd be so bad to be Rick Santorum.

He got the money. He probably got to see some nice places around the world. Not bad looking either. HIs last name is even on urbandictionary!
 

Piecake

Member
No, no, it's "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

Well, is there one? If you need to characterize them as a terrorist organization to do something (I have no idea what), why would it make a difference if you labeled them one today instead of a year ago?
 

not a racist party though

Take the case of State v. Augustine. In 2002, Quintel Augustine pled innocent to killing a Fayetteville police officer but was convicted and sentenced to death. As the NAACP brief shows, however, jury selection for the trial was fraught with racial bias. According to the brief, the prosecutor, Assistant District Attorney Cal Colyer, identified prospective African American jurors as “blk” in his notes and described a potential black juror with a substantial criminal record as a “thug.” A prospective white juror who had been involved in “trafficking marijuana” was described as a “fine guy.” Another African American was described as a “bl[ac]k wino.” Prosecutor notes in two of the other cases—those of inmates Tilmon Golphin and Christina Walters—utilized similarly racially coded language. “Categorical assumptions were made about black prospective jurors, while white prospective jurors were assessed individually,” states the NAACP brief. There is not significant recorded evidence of racial bias during jury selection in the fourth case, but the lawyer for the inmate argued for the reduction of the inmate’s sentence through the Racial Justice Act by pointing out that over half of the qualified black jurors for his case were dismissed.
this happened in 2002, not mississippi burning

googling the guys name I found this

http://www.ncbar.org/about/communic...al-justice-section-honors-ferguson,-colyer-(1)

“His integrity has never been questioned,” Ivarsson stated. “He is very cool under fire, always respectful of every witness, very surgical in his approach to every trial, extremely well organized and prepared, and extremely persuasive.

“He picks his battles carefully and does not make an issue where there isn’t one. He is always forthcoming with discovery and exculpatory material. His opinion about any legal issue is respected by everyone.

“He is the model prosecutor.”

Don't be black in NC
 

benjipwns

Banned
There's two sides to every story. In this case, a vicious convicted cop killer probably high on bath salts and a selfless cool under fire highly decorated public servant.
 

Wilsongt

Member
There's two sides to every story. In this case, a vicious convicted cop killer probably high on bath salts and a selfless cool under fire highly decorated public servant.

Okay, I am becoming more and more convinced you are being a caricature or just trolling.
 
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