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[benjipwns]

This is also my basic criticism of a lot of lazy internet critiques of US policy and its history. It seems to assume everything happens in a vacuum and takes any agency from the direct actors and the people in the country.

Let's note that EV's criticism of foreign affairs is U.S.-centric because as he has stated a number of times it's the only countries policies which he can do anything about and/or which reflect on him.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm not sure traditional/sane republicans recognize that in the short term their base is not going to accept immigration. There will never be a coming to Jesus moment where they say "wow we lost another election. It's time to change our tone at least, and slowly move to the center on policy over the next couple years." Any election lose will always be blamed on not being conservative enough, and every midterm win will be hailed as proof that the country craves right wing leadership.

The reactions to this border crisis have been disgusting. Fear mongering based on "they're bringing sickness into our country" shit? Because of scabies? They're insane.

 

[Aylinato]

YES WE CAN!

The hell did you just make me read

 

[cooljeanius]

There is a reason you can not find any Ukraine threads in OT anymore, which really sucks, but what can you do.

Last I saw the Ukraine news thread had been re-opened after Kabouter decided to give it a second chance:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118300001&postcount=2088

 

[Zen]

Oh, good decision imo.

He was kinda right about the silliness of a "news thread" that could have no discussion at all but was fine with people posting things from propaganda and losing their shit when counter-propaganda was posted. Even if I disagree with his view of the subject at hand.

It was a shitty hill to die on though since there were so many mod warnings.

He is the whole reason all those threads got derailed so harshly and ultimately locked and it involved him doing things like arguing that the confirmed russian snipers shooting ukraine civilians were actually a western funded false flag operation by neo liberalists/ ~The West~ to make it look like the Russians were committing war crimes within Ukraine. I really don't think being right about the silliness of a news only thread was the issue to remember but I digress. This is not the thread to discuss this and I feel like I am being a bit of a dick going into any specifics when 1) this is not the thread is happened in, and 2) he is still banned. So as I just said, I digress. I will leave my comments on that matter at this:

Great to see that the thread is open.

 

[eBay Huckster]

There isn't any logic behind it.

Unless you assume it's a liberal plot to get Hispanic support for Democrats to post-LBJ African-American levels.

Spoiler

There's still no logic behind it, it's just more mustache-twirly.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm not sure traditional/sane republicans recognize that in the short term their base is not going to accept immigration. There will never be a coming to Jesus moment where they say "wow we lost another election. It's time to change our tone at least, and slowly move to the center on policy over the next couple years." Any election lose will always be blamed on not being conservative enough, and every midterm win will be hailed as proof that the country craves right wing leadership.

The reactions to this border crisis have been disgusting. Fear mongering based on "they're bringing sickness into our country" shit? Because of scabies? They're insane.

I moved to a knew place without cable so I've been watching Univision a lot. LOL if they aren't dooming themselves with latinos

 

[benjipwns]

I'm not sure traditional/sane republicans recognize that in the short term their base is not going to accept immigration. There will never be a coming to Jesus moment where they say "wow we lost another election. It's time to change our tone at least, and slowly move to the center on policy over the next couple years."

Borders. Language. Culture.

Illegal immigration aka unwanted immigration is literally an invasion by people who are going to not just overrun the borders but the language and the culture. They're going to come here and establish the same hellhole socialist society they left while the government makes Real American Citizens helpless to stop a literal covert invasion of the country.

This is literally a fight to save America and everything she stands for. And the government doesn't just intend to surrender without a fight, it wants to pay tribute to and suppress the citizenry for the conquerors.

As the former President of MIT has said:

He argued that the “indiscriminate hospitality” to more whose homes would be “filled by others as miserable as themselves” would not make up for any “permanent injury done to our republic,” and that with the success of the American “experiment” more would be done for the [home nations] than “allowing its city slums and its vast stagnant reservoirs of degraded peasantry to be drained off upon our soil.”

And Representative Johnson warns:

in a few years down the road without further restriction the currently despairing immigrants “will be pounding heavily at the very pillars of our government, where those who have come ahead of them a few years back with their socialism, their communism, their [revolutions], have merely gnawing like rats at our foundations.”

Representative Box of Texas has outlined our future:

if America destroyed the “work of our fathers” and became “another Europe or Asia” leaving a world that would “grow visibly darker, even to the people of foreign lands, and all that is worth living for will have been lost to us, whether we came recently or our fathers came long ago.”

Senator Heflin pointed out that in past wars we went:

“across the seas to defeat a foreign foe and prevent a foreign army from invading America” the current immigration laws were allowing “the enemy through loopholes … to come right into the American household.” Heflin asserted that if American troops had “fought to keep the enemy out, surely we can vote for a law that will keep out the dangerous and deadly enemies of the country

Republican Congressman Cable of Ohio:

called for the two parties to “unite in forming an ‘American bloc’ and that neither yield to the foreign influence,” declaring that “partisan politics have no place in this patriotic question.”

He also noted that in certain cities, illegal immigrants were being favored by local policy:

eighty percent of the city’s population was “foreign-stock” and that the vote displayed “the effect of the foreign born in the United States in attempting to dictate to Congress what laws should [be made].”

Representative Box was on point when he argued this isn't discrimination, instead that:

“America has the gift of citizenship, home and opportunity to bestow as she chooses upon the worthy alien people who she many select, no Government and no group … has the right to question the exercise of America’s discretion in making such a choice.”

He also pointed out of that many of these illegal immigrant groups are basically making the equivalent of a threat that:

“we already have admitted among us large, dangerous elements, and that we must admit more of them to keep them in a good and orderly humor.”

While Republican Bill Vaile has knocked down all the hooey about how important immigrants are to America:

“it seems rather illogical … to claim that those who have been for the shortest time in the process of assimilation and in the work of the Republic should have even greater or even equal consideration because of this very newness.” And that it was “a fact, not merely an argument, that this country was created, kept united and developed … almost entirely by people who came here from the countries of Northern and Western Europe.”

But it's Democrat Stengle of New York who might best sum up the importance of borders, language, culture:

“many of the inhabitants of these cities appear to be tied up to foreign countries by their sympathies, customs, interests, and aspirations, and apparently but little interested in the future welfare of their adopted country.”

 

[Amir0x]

I am genuinely beyond understanding who is sarcastic anymore.

I mean this quote:

“across the seas to defeat a foreign foe and prevent a foreign army from invading America” the current immigration laws were allowing “the enemy through loopholes … to come right into the American household.” Heflin asserted that if American troops had “fought to keep the enemy out, surely we can vote for a law that will keep out the dangerous and deadly enemies of the country

Is like something straight out of The Onion. Is benji really supportive of these insane quotes or am I missing something?

 

[benjipwns]

I assure you sir that quote is straight out of the Congressional Record. All of them except the MIT one are.

 

[thepotatoman]

Borders. Language. Culture.

Illegal immigration aka unwanted immigration is literally an invasion by people who are going to not just overrun the borders but the language and the culture. They're going to come here and establish the same hellhole socialist society they left while the government makes Real American Citizens helpless to stop a literal covert invasion of the country.

This is literally a fight to save America and everything she stands for. And the government doesn't just intend to surrender without a fight, it wants to pay tribute to and suppress the citizenry for the conquerors.

I would place most of Mexico's economic problems on the actions of the 70s, and those were highly influenced by the USSR's brand of being more anti-capitalism than pro-socialism. I highly doubt that would see something like that again in the post soviet era. And that economic downturn simply left the window open for a terrible feedback loop of crime and corruption that persists to this day. Most of these people immigrating probably don't even remember a time when Mexico wasn't headed towards privatization and are heading to a country with way more social programs.

And don't worry. It's not like a path to citizenship makes for an open border. Especially when more secure borders is part of the deal for the path to citizenship.

It would still be nice to just take care of Mexico's crime and corruption/wage inequality problem since to some extent it is our problem too. It's just too bad that it's extremely hard to do from the outside.

 

[The Technomancer]

It would still be nice to just take care of Mexico's crime and corruption/wage inequality problem since to some extent it is our problem too. It's just too bad that it's extremely hard to do from the outside.

I mean, how would we even go about starting?

 

[PhoenixDark]

I moved to a knew place without cable so I've been watching Univision a lot. LOL if they aren't dooming themselves with latinos

They don't seem to recognize that this isn't the economy, where inaction during a time of hardship is going to be blamed on whoever is president. Hispanics aren't stupid, and while they probably aren't big fans of Obama or democrats they recognize the issue isn't the White House. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Boehner had put the immigration bill on the floor - it would pass. Likewise we could fix this border crisis with some type of piecemeal compromise; a comprehensive bill isn't going to pass, but we could address this issue and some pet issue from both sides right now. Instead republicans would rather sit around complaining about Obama. As if a decision two years ago caused this exodus.

 

[reggieandTFE]

I mean, how would we even go about starting?

Stop letting our multinational companies kill local populations (Chase bank in Chiapas) or bribe local politicians (Wal-Mart) or flood the country with federally subsidized commodities (Chiquita, Monsanto, dole) that prices people off their own land?

 

[Coriolanus]

I mean, how would we even go about starting?

I've given some thought about it for a while, and the way I found to spin this kind of thing would be to heavily tax goods that originate from foreign factories that pay wages or or utilize work standards that you consider subpar. The way you'll protect yourself from foreign retaliation is by explaining that this is a way to enforce a global improvement of work standards and wages. Pretty sure this is already done in some areas, in a way.

Side effect would be, obviously, increased cost of goods and whatever kind of retaliation other countries implement. Also maaaaybe political suicide due to loss of backers in manufacturing industries.Also returns some manufacturing jobs to the country, obv.

Long term effect is creation of higher quality consumer markets. Also I seem to recall data poiting that when people in lower classes start getting more money, they start spending that moolah in better education and QoL for the next generation. Seems to be a correlation between education and corruption.

 

[benjipwns]

I've given some thought about it for a while, and the way I found to spin this kind of thing would be to heavily tax goods that originate from foreign factories that pay wages or or utilize work standards that you consider subpar. The way you'll protect yourself from foreign retaliation is by explaining that this is a way to enforce a global improvement of work standards and wages. Pretty sure this is already done in some areas, in a way.

Side effect would be, obviously, increased cost of goods and whatever kind of retaliation other countries implement. Also maaaaybe political suicide due to loss of backerks in manufacturing industries.Also returns some manufacturing jobs to the country, obv.

Another side effect would be continued poverty for those foreigners rather than a job that provides better than subsistence farming.

But other than the harm to the poor both in the US and abroad, trade wars are a great idea.

 

[Coriolanus]

Trade wars have always happened and always will. Evidently you have to do a balancing act and not push things too far too fast, otherwise, yes, your initial scenario will happen.

But no, marginally increasing the taxes on foreign goods made with shit standards will not instantly make those foreign jobs disappear. And you are perfectly aware of that.

 

[benjipwns]

Is it marginally increasing or heavily taxing?

In any case, tariffs are a terrible outdated idea, it's time to progress and improve the wealth of the globe instead of returning to discredited backwards reactionary policies of Ancient Greece in order to impoverish ourselves.

 

[Coriolanus]

Is it marginally increasing or heavily taxing?

In any case, tariffs are a terrible outdated idea, it's time to progress and improve the wealth of the globe instead of returning to discredited backwards reactionary policies of Ancient Greece.

You marginally increase until they become heavy. "Just the tip". The inverse of what the higher classes do with their taxes and allathat.

In any case, u wot mate.

 

[Wilsongt]

Such a quick about face from the Murrieta officials, going from telling the citizens to protest to telling the citizens to contact their representative, as soon as the story went national.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Such a quick about face from the Murrieta officials, going from telling the citizens to protest to telling the citizens to contact their representative, as soon as the story went national.

Now they're arguing they only meant to criticize the facilities where the immigrants are being (temporarily) kept, because it's "inhumane." They aren't letting the people off the bus or setting them loose in the US for christs sake, and while I'd imagine the facilities are ugly...there's not much else that can be done. Besides it's temporary.

Interesting that the same people who make this argument tend to be the same people who praise Ellis Island, as if that was a completely humane bastion of human rights.

 

[benjipwns]

In any case, u wot mate.

I'm not sure how increasing tariffs on Mexican goods towards punishing levels until exports to the United States effectively stop is supposed to improve the lives of Mexicans. Or Americans for that matter.

We should try free trade instead. That way everyone wins.

In fact, the United States should try it even if nobody else cooperates initially. Eliminate tariffs, reduce immigration restrictions to the bare minimums of disease and high crimes checks, burn the Jones Act in a hellfire of celebration, end the drug war, stop harassing other nations with things like that failure or FATCA, etc. That's the way to set standards for the rest of the world to respect its citizens. The benefits for U.S. citizens and residents is just gravy.

 

[Wilsongt]

Now they're arguing they only meant to criticize the facilities where the immigrants are being (temporarily) kept, because it's "inhumane." They aren't letting the people off the bus or setting them loose in the US for christs sake, and while I'd imagine the facilities are ugly...there's not much else that can be done. Besides it's temporary.

Interesting that the same people who make this argument tend to be the same people who praise Ellis Island, as if that was a completely humane bastion of human rights.

The conservative mind is truly a fascinating object.

 

[Coriolanus]

I'm not sure how increasing tariffs on Mexican goods towards punishing levels until exports to the United States effectively stop is supposed to improve the lives of Mexicans. Or Americans for that matter.

We should try free trade instead. That way everyone wins.

In fact, the United States should try it even if nobody else cooperates initially. Eliminate tariffs, reduce immigration restrictions to the bare minimums of disease and high crimes checks, burn the Jones Act in a hellfire of celebration, end the drug war, stop harassing other nations with things like that failure or FATCA, etc. That's the way to set standards for the rest of the world to respect its citizens. The benefits for U.S. citizens and residents is just gravy.

Poe's law.

 

[benjipwns]

Poe's law.

Oop, well egg on my face then, that was some good parody of reactionary thought in your original post. Some people really do believe restricting trade is good for the poor.

 

[pigeon]

Benji's right here*. Taxing foreign industries for not abiding by our labor laws is just crushing developing economies by trying to make them obey standards we didn't come close to obeying when we were a developing economy. The reality is that, if people didn't think those jobs were better than what they had, they wouldn't take them. If you want them to not take those jobs, offer them something better.

We have neither the capability nor the right to improve the labor regulations in Mexico. That's the colonial mindset talking. All we can do is reform immigration so that we can offer people a better option in America, and do our part to improve OUR labor standards so that they don't end up working at Wal-Mart for poverty wages. Maybe we can go over there and start companies that offer better wages and standards -- if we're right, they should be more successful than their competitors, and take over the market. But we can't make people make the decisions we want them to make, whether we try to do it with guns or with tariffs.



* That felt weird.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

They don't seem to recognize that this isn't the economy, where inaction during a time of hardship is going to be blamed on whoever is president. Hispanics aren't stupid, and while they probably aren't big fans of Obama or democrats they recognize the issue isn't the White House. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Boehner had put the immigration bill on the floor - it would pass. Likewise we could fix this border crisis with some type of piecemeal compromise; a comprehensive bill isn't going to pass, but we could address this issue and some pet issue from both sides right now. Instead republicans would rather sit around complaining about Obama. As if a decision two years ago caused this exodus.

no

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...suit-test-gop-commitment-maximum-deportations

Republicans are against Dreamers. They done with latinos. The dems need to do a better job of engaging the community. Why the hell can't politicians learn spanish at an acceptable level? they need more than photo opps. It no difficult to integrate with the latino community and learn about them.

Dems treat them like a group that they figure will just vote for them. Its no wonder they're turn out is crap.

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...suit-test-gop-commitment-maximum-deportations

Republicans are against Dreamers. They done with latinos. The dems need to do a better job of engaging the community. Why the hell can't politicians learn spanish at an acceptable level? they need more than photo opps. It no difficult to integrate with the latino community and learn about them.

Dems treat them like a group that they figure will just vote for them. Its no wonder they're turn out is crap.

Harry Reid's re-election campaign in 2010 was actually pretty ingenious. He recruited well-respected Hispanic leaders to run for local offices in order to boost turnout among Latinos. This helped him get re-elected while also building the state party and retaining majorities in the state legislature.

For what it's worth I think Democrats could do a much better job at engaging communities of all sorts, but you're right in that Latinos are typically lower on the priority list compared to African-Americans and single women.

 

[RustyNails]

Can Mexico just invade Texas and annex it? I'll be very happy.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Harry Reid's re-election campaign in 2010 was actually pretty ingenious. He recruited well-respected Hispanic leaders to run for local offices in order to boost turnout among Latinos. This helped him get re-elected while also building the state party and retaining majorities in the state legislature.

I don't know if its just the way your discribing this but this sounds like the problem I have. There's no sense that Democrats actually understand Latinos.

Immigration is one. Obama should cut the crap with pretending they're going to pass Immigration reform with the congress. Be honest with voters and say listen. I agree this is what we need but I can't be a dictator and we have a party that doesn't want these people here. I will do what I can in my office but I need a new congress.

By pretending its still viable your making the dems responsible for the failure.

Can Mexico just invade Texas and annex it? I'll be very happy.

never! also texas is going to be a battlefield within 10 years. the only place I think dems will lose as strong holds are places in the midwest but their relative importance is dying

 

[Aaron Strife]

I can only imagine getting more Latinos elected in Nevada (as Democrats) will have a positive effect on Latinos there - in fact the state has already enacted Dream Act-esque legislation that certainly wouldn't have happened if Democrats hadn't won the legislature. And Reid has been very tuned into Latinos' needs. IMO he'd be the very model for Democrats to follow that would address your complaints.

Obama has made it pretty clear he wants a new Congress, ever since he started his second term. I don't think he realistically expects Boehner to pass immigration reform and he's been putting the blame squarely on House Republicans for it. I don't know what else you want him to do.

 

[Amir0x]

I assure you sir that quote is straight out of the Congressional Record. All of them except the MIT one are.

My question is merely if you are actually in support of some of those quotes like the one I mentioned. Some of them are truly batshit insane perspectives on the immigration issue.

I don't know who is serious anymore, being on NeoGAF has skewed my perspective on when someone is being sarcastic or not, and I'm not terribly familiar with your positions yet.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I can only imagine getting more Latinos elected in Nevada (as Democrats) will have a positive effect on Latinos there - in fact the state has already enacted Dream Act-esque legislation that certainly wouldn't have happened if Democrats hadn't won the legislature. And Reid has been very tuned into Latinos' needs. IMO he'd be the very model for Democrats to follow that would address your complaints.

Obama has made it pretty clear he wants a new Congress, ever since he started his second term. I don't think he realistically expects Boehner to pass immigration reform and he's been putting the blame squarely on House Republicans for it. I don't know what else you want him to do.

The administration is completly inept at reaching out to that community IMO. They need to have a high level figure able to go out each Sunday to Al punto speaking to that community in Spanish. And they need to be frank not the same wishywashy stuff they've been pulling in the english language media.

 

[B-Dubs]

My question is merely if you are actually in support of some of those quotes like the one I mentioned. Some of them are truly batshit insane perspectives on the immigration issue.

I don't know who is serious anymore, being on NeoGAF has skewed my perspective on when someone is being sarcastic or not, and I'm not terribly familiar with your positions yet.

Most of those quotes are from the 1920's, so I figure that it's just a joke.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Here's an interesting perspective on the Hobby Lobby decision from a federal district judge:

In the Hobby Lobby cases, five male Justices of the Supreme Court, who are all members of the Catholic faith and who each were appointed by a President who hailed from the Republican party, decided that a huge corporation, with thousands of employees and gargantuan revenues, was a “person” entitled to assert a religious objection to the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate because that corporation was “closely held” by family members. To the average person, the result looks stupid and smells worse.

To most people, the decision looks stupid ’cause corporations are not persons, all the legal mumbo jumbo notwithstanding. The decision looks misogynist because the majority were all men. It looks partisan because all were appointed by a Republican. The decision looks religiously motivated because each member of the majority belongs to the Catholic church, and that religious organization is opposed to contraception. While “looks” don’t matter to the logic of the law (and I am not saying the Justices are actually motivated by such things), all of us know from experience that appearances matter to the public’s acceptance of the law.

The Hobby Lobby cases illustrate why the Court ought to care more about Alexander Bickel’s “passive virtues“–that is, not deciding highly controversial cases (most of the time) if the Court can avoid the dispute. What would have happened if the Supreme Court simply decided not to take the Hobby Lobby cases? What harm would have befallen the nation? What harm would have befallen Hobby Lobby family members who would have been free to express their religious beliefs as real persons? Had the Court sat on the sidelines, I don’t think any significant harm would have occurred. The most likely result is that one or more of the political branches of government would have worked something out. Or not. In any event, out of well over 300 million people, who would have cared if the law in different Circuits was different or the ACA’s contraception mandate was up in the air?

I think he's wrong about a few things there (e.g., freedom of religion shouldn't be reduced to a subcategory of freedom of speech; and the political branches have resolved the question presented in Hobby Lobby by enacting the RFRA in the first place), but I still think it's an interesting (and brief--the above is most of it) read.

 

[Amir0x]

Most of those quotes are from the 1920's, so I figure that it's just a joke.

Alright, I didn't have any real context, and I'm not familiar with him, so I would have been fascinated to hear someone argue in defense of those points of view. Sort of like what would happen if FREEP suddenly came onto NeoGAF.

 

[B-Dubs]

Alright, I didn't have any real context, and I'm not familiar with him, so I would have been fascinated to hear someone argue in defense of those points of view. Sort of like what would happen if FREEP suddenly came onto NeoGAF.

He's one of those guys that you can never really tell what's going on, I only bothered checking dates because I didn't recognize the Representative from New York.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't know if its just the way your discribing this but this sounds like the problem I have. There's no sense that Democrats actually understand Latinos.

Immigration is one. Obama should cut the crap with pretending they're going to pass Immigration reform with the congress. Be honest with voters and say listen. I agree this is what we need but I can't be a dictator and we have a party that doesn't want these people here. I will do what I can in my office but I need a new congress.

By pretending its still viable your making the dems responsible for the failure.

never! also texas is going to be a battlefield within 10 years. the only place I think dems will lose as strong holds are places in the midwest but their relative importance is dying

Obama isn't honest enough to do that. His schtick from day one has been to pretend like republicans are one or two steps away from being reasonable. It reminds me of his idiotic comment about the "fever" being poised to break if he got re-elected. He doesn't get it.

Immigration won't pass while he's in office. And I'm sure it won't pass during Hillary's either ("if we can't trust her to follow the law on Benghazi how can we trust her to follow the law on immigration"). Unless she wins a wave re-election in 2020.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

I was going through some old PoliGAF threads and I found this gem from 2011...

Unless the economy improves, I expect Romney to win in commanding fashion. I think he could easily win states that traditionally go blue, from NH to Conn while re-taking the red states Obama won like Virginia.

Take a guess who wrote that? LOL.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I was going through some old PoliGAF threads and I found this gem from 2011...



Take a guess who wrote that? LOL.

hahahaha

 

[Aaron Strife]

McDaniel campaign will seek new election

In a Monday afternoon press conference, Chris McDaniel's U.S. Senate campaign announced that it expects to file a challenge to last month's primary runoff with Sen. Thad Cochran for the Mississippi GOP's Senate nomination and that it will seek a new election.

Mitch Tyner, McDaniel's lead counsel on the election challenge, said the campaign is currently "looking to see how many ineligible voters voted in the runoff," but anticipated they would claim at at least 6,700 such voters. "It is imperative that an ineligible voter be excluded from this, so we want to weed out all the ineligible votes," Tyner said. His proposed remedy? "A new election."

Immigration won't pass while he's in office. And I'm sure it won't pass during Hillary's either ("if we can't trust her to follow the law on Benghazi how can we trust her to follow the law on immigration"). Unless she wins a wave re-election in 2020.

Or if Democrats win the House in 2016 which seems to be their game plan.

I know you're discounting that possibility, and I can't blame you. After all, you've been right before

Spoiler

probably

 

[thepotatoman]

McDaniels is pumping up the fact that he has 4,900 out of 7,100 votes needed to open a court case and eventually start a second run off. So the fight is definitely continuing on that front.

Benji's right here*. Taxing foreign industries for not abiding by our labor laws is just crushing developing economies by trying to make them obey standards we didn't come close to obeying when we were a developing economy. The reality is that, if people didn't think those jobs were better than what they had, they wouldn't take them. If you want them to not take those jobs, offer them something better.

We have neither the capability nor the right to improve the labor regulations in Mexico. That's the colonial mindset talking. All we can do is reform immigration so that we can offer people a better option in America, and do our part to improve OUR labor standards so that they don't end up working at Wal-Mart for poverty wages. Maybe we can go over there and start companies that offer better wages and standards -- if we're right, they should be more successful than their competitors, and take over the market. But we can't make people make the decisions we want them to make, whether we try to do it with guns or with tariffs.



* That felt weird.

Yeah, when I said we should help, I meant more something that we'd spend our own resources on, with the approval of the mexican government, to do something positive, that might be cheaper and better for the US economy than taking in more documented immigrants than we can handle.

I would be completely against anything that looks at it from a forceful punishment standpoint since that could easily just make things worse.

And besides it being the right thing to do, I would assume helping out mexico is one of those things latinos want but aren't getting represented for. I mean, politicians seem to get a good boost from promoting helping out Israel.

 

[Plinko]

What do people think are the odds of Ben Carson running and winning GOP primaries? I've never met so many republicans enamored with someone before.

 

[speculawyer]

What do people think are the odds of Ben Carson running and winning GOP primaries? I've never met so many republicans enamored with someone before.

Zero.

He's too nutty. He's kinda like Alan Keyes but with a very respectable medical career. I don't think he would want to run anyway.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Is it independently confirmed that McDaniels has 4,900? I can imagine many hundred people voting in the dem and GOP primaries, but 5k+? I assumed black people didn't even participate in primaries much down there.

 

[thepotatoman]

McDaniel campaign will seek new election

I really doubt his findings will turn out to be very accurate in the court, but I'd absolutely love to see what another runoff would look like.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I think I misread it. Carry on.

 

[thepotatoman]

Is it independently confirmed that McDaniels has 4,900? I can imagine many hundred people voting in the dem and GOP primaries, but 5k+? I assumed black people didn't even participate in primaries much down there.

That's the number I got from Daily Caller and is only a quote from McDaniel's staff.

Cochran's claiming that they're digging past the democrat primary double votes and into other things.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I really doubt his findings will turn out to be very accurate in the court, but I'd absolutely love to see what another runoff would look like.

I'd love to see the fallout of a second run-off that McDaniel wins.

I think Cochran would endorse Childers at that point.