I think he intends to be the party figurehead after the inauguration.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
At this points I'd pin hope on Obama going around as an activist and statesmen for redistricting and using that as a platform to educate people about congress. Get them on board with helping him by saving the dems in congress.
whyamihere
Banned
They certainly couldn't do it with Obama. And we did it in 06. Again, a lot of these issues you guys are bemoaning are unfortunately cyclical.
Being in opposition will help.
TestOfTide
Banned
Stop acting like it was ALL Obama's doing that got the big wins in 2008.
Go look up that map Sarah Palin posted in 2010 with the crosshairs. That was a not so short list of districts where McCain won but the democrat won the house seat. If it was all Obama then those house seats wouldn't have gone blue in 2008 considering that McCain won in those districts.
My local D challenger for House Rep lost by less than a hundred votes to the GOP incumbent.
When I went to go vote in the morning, there were 0 Clinton signs and 0 Challenger signs, while plenty for Trump and the incumbent. (I also only started getting mailers for her late in the race.)
Low-level races matter. Not just because you want to play the whole board, but because you need to play the whole board and squeeze out votes wherever you can.
When I went to go vote in the morning, there were 0 Clinton signs and 0 Challenger signs, while plenty for Trump and the incumbent. (I also only started getting mailers for her late in the race.)
Low-level races matter. Not just because you want to play the whole board, but because you need to play the whole board and squeeze out votes wherever you can.
Elaugaufein
Member
While I do think you should run candidates who can win , I also think you should avoid shooting yourselves in the foot in the process. The unwillingness of Democrats to stand for many left / progressive policies has contributed to the Republican to set a "normal" that is significantly to the right of many countries you have significant cultural similarities too (ie I'm not buying that Americans are a special kind of human put on the planet to bring about the Dominion of Supply-Side Jesus).
The GOP don't run a million miles from their far more right wing candidates, Democrats are for more willing to bus anything even mildly to the left of their platform.
The GOP don't run a million miles from their far more right wing candidates, Democrats are for more willing to bus anything even mildly to the left of their platform.
It's not that we don't stand for them.
It's that Dems aren't willing to go HAM when they have an eclipse (House/Senate/Presidency) and go full FDR.
whyamihere
Banned
Fucking Jill Stein did it.
Also remember to donate to Foster Campbell.
Also remember to donate to Foster Campbell.
If only we had a nation wide media that went a soft on Democrats as we do on Republicans, maybe we could go full FDR on things. But, as things stand right now, anytime Dems try to do something controversial, it gets way too much media attention, yet when Republicans do the same thing, it's barely a blip.
Stop the fucking fair and balance act.
SenorArdilla
Member
Damn. Russia is really going all out with this fake news business.
Elaugaufein
Member
To some extent Democrats contribute to this though. Given a safe seat the Republicans are willing to run far right nut cases who function to make Paul Ryan look like a moderate. The Democrats aren't, Sanders causes bile to flow from tear ducts for some in this thread but he's not Far Left by almost any global measure. Likewise while the electorate is more polarised now, the Democrats have moved slightly to the left, while the Republicans jumped massively to the right, which skews the perception of the centre and leads to "both sides" idiocy.
It's really a shame, because Democrats are in a position to actually teach people truths and to do their best to call out Republicans lies and falsehoods, but they lack the spein to do so. Democrats everywhere needed to be shouting from the rooftops that Trump was not going to help anyone and was only going to feather the nest of current billionaires, but instead they remained mostly on the defense, or trying to stretch out pooswagate as long as possible.
Most democrats also talk another language compared to the Republicans. While Republicans talk to their constituents and the voters like they are five year olds "Rah clinton bad. Trump good. More money in your pocket good. Democrats crocks", Democrats actually talk to people as if they are educated. They need to learn how to balance that out.
Did... did I fall into a parallel world? The issue isn't that Democrats don't attack Republicans, Trump was attacked at so many different angles, so much that people criticized Hillary for attacking Trump too much and not focusing on policies. The issue is that people don't really care for nuanced arguments and instead go for feel-good soundbites. Mainstream and alternative media then propagate those tendencies tenfold. There's nothing politicians can do except to make unrealistic promises when everyone just wants a soundbite to latch on to.
After I typed that out, I then read your post again and this is what you conveyed
1. Democrats should attack Republicans more
2. Democrats should educate people more
3. People don't want to be educated
4. Democrats should learn how to educate people less and talk like Republicans more
???
I'm just rambling. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just frustrating lately to see what is happening.
The GOP has ALEC.
The Dems have ????.
Our infrastructure is nonexistent at the moment.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Eh, single payer got blasted in Colorado 80-20. People in this country are simply not left-wing in the European sense, and we have other issues that are unique to us (race, for example). The Dems need more Kander-types running in red states, not hard leftists running in places that already have Democrats. I mean, sure, we could run someone around Sanders' ideology in Washington, and they could win, but that's not flipping seats. You need to run people who can win in red states.
That's another thing. Why is Foster Campbell being almost ignored by the national Party?
Even if he loses, every little bit of resistance helps.
And I don't care about Wisconsin, Hillary's not overcoming a 20k vote lead by Trump, but it might just happen in Michigan. I can't stand having to see Trump with more than 300 EV.
Stupid Mook.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
That gun sales thread is one of the most fascinating threads I've read on GAF in a while
Elaugaufein
Member
What I am saying is that one of the reasons you are so right wing compared to Europe electorally is because the Democrats are incredibly bad at push back and basically let the Republicans dictate what normal is perceived as. That's bad long term strategy. The American electorate isn't more right wing because of magic. Don't get me wrong, you've got to work from where you are, but the Democrats tend to overcompensate and thereby make their desired positions even less likely. It's not just about winning elections, setting the parameters on which elections are fought is a thing that matters too (which is largely the purpose of activism).
No, it's more right wing because rural areas are incredibly overrepresented.
Elaugaufein
Member
But this alone is insufficient as an explanation. Your average rural electorate is significantly more right wing economically and slightly more so socially than the most conservative rural electorate in Australia. That's not achievable merely by rural over representation.
TestOfTide
Banned
Sorry, but it IS possible that maybe, just maybe, American cultures tend to lean more conservative than other western cultures.
Assuming that the liberal leaning party has to go hard left is exactly what made the Labour Party keep losing to the Tories.
Meanwhile we have seen that Democrats find more success in America when they run different kinds of democrats for different areas.
That doesn't mean you don't run candidates like Obama on a national scale, but remember that the reason Speaker Pelosi could pass so much shit through the house was because there were numerous districts that voted for McCain but also voted for the democratic representative.
The distribution of the population is much different. Australia's way more centralized.
Australia is also pretty much monowhite.
Elaugaufein
Member
Of course its possible. It has happened. It's factually true. It doesn't just happen out of nowhere though , the position of the electorate is a result of cultural factors, which include religion and yes, the stands that political parties and activists are willing to take. Unless you think Americans are genetically or environmentally hard wired to be more conservative than other similar groups.
Yes. But our deeply conservative rural electorates aren't (they wouldn't be deeply conservative rural electorates otherwise). I grew up on a farm 30 minutes from one of the largest town in Maranoa (Warwick), it had a population of under 20 k at the time. The nearest "city" (Toowoomba) was about an hour away from that town (Brisbane (the Queensland capital is another hour away again)). And the reason that was pme pf the largest town in Maranoa is because its on the eastern end and close to those places and on the main highway. The rest of Maranoa occupies a the entire south west of Queensland because the population density is so low (by contrast Brisbane is multiple Federal electorates itself).
(the Reason I'm talking about Maranoa is because at least by some metrics its the most conservative seat in Australia, ftr , I've spent most of my life living in electorates of that nature).
TestOfTide
Banned
Australia also doesn't have a history of Dixiecrats holding back society for decades.
The only way Democrats could ever start running hard left on a national scale would be if somehow every Dixiecrat magically disappeared.
How about the pervasive and self-reinforcing culture of the Dixiecrats? You think that maybe that might be the reason? Other countries don't have as many Dixiecrat types that have to be dragged to modern society kicking and screaming.
And no, I'm not saying it's genetic. I am saying that in America the Dixiecrat types are a VERY self-reinforcing culture of hating others.
They are so self-reinforcing that around the time when the Whig Party died, they managed to be a driving presence while literally saying they knew nothing of being associated with any particular party.
Yeah, I forgot the race part and edited it in.
Elaugaufein
Member
Sure, that's very much part of it. So's the strain of Fundamentalist Evangelical Protestantism that took off in America and the Prosperity Gospel stuff. But this is all cultural stuff. You can actually change those positions over time. I'm not saying not to run less progressive candidates in conservative areas, just that over compensating is a bad idea.
shinra-bansho
Member
Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz are basically caricatures of what rural people hate about cities.
TestOfTide
Banned
You should look into just how self-reinforcing the Dixiecrat culture. Sure it can be changed, but it only happens at a much slower rate than the rest of the country and they have to be dragged into modern society kicking and screaming.
This is literally a culture that STILL refuses to acknowledge that the confederacy were traitorous slave owners.
Literally the only way for them to suddenly become modern would be if they were literally forced to through shit like Marshall law.
I’m a Coastal Elite From the Midwest: The Real Bubble is Rural America
This is what's happening. It's a bubble of white people w/ similar culture/religion/etc. If there are black people in their city/town, they live on the other (poor) side of town.
I use the puppy analogy here- these people are never exposed to anything outside their local norm, so they react w/ fear to anything different.
And the US is GIGANTIC. This cannot be stressed enough.
This is what's happening. It's a bubble of white people w/ similar culture/religion/etc. If there are black people in their city/town, they live on the other (poor) side of town.
I use the puppy analogy here- these people are never exposed to anything outside their local norm, so they react w/ fear to anything different.
And the US is GIGANTIC. This cannot be stressed enough.
Elaugaufein
Member
Yes, it's very self reinforcing. That's pretty much the mark of a "successful" cultural group (I mean self-propagating) . But you're never going to change that if you avoid making arguments to that group at all, for fear of ballot backlash. It's a balance.
And I doubt that would be successful, such cultural impositions are rarely actually successful unless accompanied by tactics that pretty much involve genocide or applied to societies basically in ruins and being built back up.
Yes, I know the US is gigantic. But you just described Warwick too. It's a bubble of white people w/ similar culture/religion (pretty much Irish, English and Germans) with Aboriginals living a separate (poorer) section of town.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Agreed.
The only reason we talk about the cities, liberals etc. being a bubble is because they don't have the voting power the ruralites do. Much of which is only given to them by the constitution.
shinra-bansho
Member
Jerry Brown term-limited heads the DNC when he leaves office. Harris becomes Governor of California. Runs against Trump in 2020 to become President Harris. Take the film reel and run, Juliana.
Aaron Strife
Banned
So Harris just jumps offices three times in four years?
Why on earth would she want that trainwreck of a job?
They're still far closer to a coastal city than someone living in Kansas.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yes. Because the appearance of experience seems more useful than actual experience. And it means you can't leave too much of a footprint for people to hold against you.
Breaks the double bind.
Also Senators don't have a great record for Presidential runs from memory. But then I guess Trump makes precedent less useful.
Fucking deplorable.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/we-g...assenger-disrupts-flight-with-pro-trump-rant/
No action taken against the dipshit.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/we-g...assenger-disrupts-flight-with-pro-trump-rant/
No action taken against the dipshit.
Elaugaufein
Member
But its not Coastal cities that matter exactly, it's just cities. It's the higher population , and resulting greater inter mixing of cultures , being Coastal just helps because that's where immigration tends to happen and big cities tend to form as a result (trades easier when you have access to shipping). The presence of universities, and the cultural around them, probably helps somewhat too.
A lot of these major cities don't do much mixing at all in the central areas.
Yes, the election board said it was due to initial estimate issues.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
To add to this, culture is unique across nations. In the US, you have to acknowledge that we're a nation that was diverse from day 1 (due to disparate groups seeking solitude and of course slavery). We were discovered by Europeans who were similar to hardcore libertarians in that they wanted to go live in the woods alone forever. We have a massive gun culture due to centuries of legitimate use and then invention (the Wild West leading to the rise of personal revolvers and repeaters cannot be left out here, and is unique to the US). Distrust of the government is built into our founding document. Our country strongly rejects the idea of the collective in favor of the individual (both sides to some degree; everyone here would agree with the idea that you should be judged as an individual without connection to others in ways you can't control; EG your dad being a criminal shouldn't get you shunned whereas other cultures group families more heavily).
This country is unique, just like all countries are. What works here has to originate here because solutions don't migrate well. We aren't magically right-leaning; centuries of culture led us here, and you work within reality as it is, not as you want it to be.
Didn't Silver and Cohn already debunk this nonsense?
So the Washington Post came out with this big article about Russian interference in the election via fake news. Will anyone in the government acknowledge it?
And of course the catch 22 being anyone dumb enough to fall for fake news thinks whatever is published in the mainstream press is fake.
And of course the catch 22 being anyone dumb enough to fall for fake news thinks whatever is published in the mainstream press is fake.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
A lot of agencies acknowledged what was going on, the problem is that nobody cares.
The big thing now is to call NYTimes, Washington Post, and The Daily Beast fake news.
If the white nationalists and Russia's intent was to sow doubt about how reliable the media is, then they have certainly did a good job of it.
whyamihere
Banned
The whole point of disinformation is create confusion and sew the seasons of discord, since people tend to believe the first thing they read. It creates paralysis and uncertainty on what's true. You also saw a shade of that this election: so much garbage was thrown at Hillary that a lot of people just threw their hands in the air and didn't want anything to do with this election.
Media institutions failing and distrust are also what allows for things like RT to flourish.
Media institutions failing and distrust are also what allows for things like RT to flourish.
VendettaRed07
Member
Just found out that Bones from Star Trek hit on my grandma at a USO dance during World War II, but she turned him down because he was married.
Not sure what else to do with this information other than post it here.
Not sure what else to do with this information other than post it here.
shinra-bansho
Member
Huh, so Texas is actually projected to become majority minority in eligible voter population by 2019. The problem is not enough of them vote.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
What's Cruz's favorability look like in Texas right now? Could that be a pickup in 2018?
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