• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Life among the Berned

I mean these guys, really?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/life-among-the-berned-214099

I hope you realize the irony of what she’s doing,” Paul Czisny, a Wisconsin delegate for Bernie, said, nodding his head backward at a young woman standing in the stands, a piece of white tape across her mouth that said in stark black letters SILENCED. Periodically, she stood up and photographers rushed over, camera shutters whirring, to snap her admittedly very dramatic portrait.
“She’s able to vote, she’s able to get elected as a delegate, she’s able to come here,” Czisny rolled his eyes. He’s as pissed off as anyone about the business of the DNC emails—“it just feeds the frustrations of the Bernie people”—but he was frustrated with people like that young woman. “Unfortunately, all they’re doing is aiding the Trump camp,” he said. “Virtually no one here”—meaning the Bernie delegates—“is going to vote for Trump, but will they stay home? Will they vote for Jill Stein [of the Green Party]? I find this maddening because we’ve seen this movie before, and if we think Bush was a disaster, Trump will be an even bigger disaster.”

I tried to talk to the young woman with the tape over her mouth, but she refused to communicate, silenced as she was. Instead, she showed me a Facebook post she wrote. “The DNC is threatening that they might pull my credentials if I don’t take this off,” she wrote of her silencing mouth tape. Her name is Angie Aker. “They want to truly silence me. They don’t even want me to have this much free speech.”
A follow-up question about who she was and why she felt silenced resulted in her showing me her screen: another Facebook post. “FOR THE MEDIA LOOKING FOR CONTEXT ON MY “SILENCED” CRY FOR HELP: the establishment wants us to lie for them and say we are behind Hillary when it’s clear there hasn’t even been a fair primary,” she wrote. “I’m desperate to show somehow it’s not true.”
Then she ran out of Facebook posts to show me, and commandeered my notepad to scribble me notes, like a modern Beethoven. “Everyone has to vote their conscience,” she wrote, echoing Ted Cruz at last week’s Republican convention. “I don’t know who I’ll vote for. But I know I won’t cast my vote out of fear anymore.”

Give me a break. Keep reading for squabbles within New Mexico delegation and their fights against Indiana. Democrats being Democrats.
 
Who cares if he wants to remain an Independent.

Also, "the left" has such weird obsessions.

no tea peepee.
Glass-Steagalllllllll.

Things that will basically have no impact on their lives whatsoever. And would probably have negative effects.

At least greeny envirohippies have a empirical basis for their main issue.
notsureifserious.jpg
 

sphagnum

Banned
I find it baffling that a bunch of the Busters I know all love Obama but have switched to the Green Party over this, when Obama is much closer to Hillary than Bernie.

Personality politics are weird.
 
I'm high as fuck off of some hopium right now

Literally nobody cares about the busters anymore except for the conservative media desperate for negative news about the DNC
 

Gruco

Banned
I have no idea why Silver was so embarrassingly hard lined about Trump in the primary. I 100% get the initial skepticism, and it would have been no big deal if he later reevaluated. The dude ignored the evidence right in front of his eyes and very lazily dismissed it using quirky recent history like Giuliani or Cain, which weren't even remotely comparable. And insisted that this was all "data driven."

Worse, he persisted even after Trump demonstrated his strength in New England and the south. Took to punditry wars on Twitter, Rubio fan-fics, and just outright denial. From the guy whose entire brand being more methodical and serious than all those bad pundits.

Now he's basically freaking out because he doesn't know how to react to an L of that magnitude. The guy is basically useless for real analysis at this point, and his site is running deeper and deeper down the click bait well.

Wang and Upshot deserve to take his entire audience, so hopefully that ends up happening. Wang's status as an academic gives him a better head about working w data and less dependence on clicks. The collaborative approach at the NYT, plus it being a legitimate newsgathering org, creates a more thoughtful and serious tone. It's a shame because I do think Silver did a lot for this field, but he genuinely can't compete at his own game anymore.
 
Reince talking about the DNC email leaks on Hannity sounds exactly how politicians talk about their upcoming super pac activity. "That’s my guess, I don’t know it, but I also understand how these folks operate and they’re gonna come out again with something shortly, I imagine.”
 
notsureifserious.jpg
Go on and elaborate on how both will materially make the California delegation Busterbluths lives worse.

I will read intently assuming it doesn't falsely claim the latter's repeal as the cause of the Great Recession and/or that size in itself means risk. And so on.

Which parts of the 30,000 page multilateral trade deal are they protesting. Are they aware of the more relevant impact of inadequate trade adjustment policy.
 

Maledict

Member
I find it baffling that a bunch of the Busters I know all love Obama but have switched to the Green Party over this, when Obama is much closer to Hillary than Bernie.

Personality politics are weird.

Yep - it's never been about actual politics. It's about messiah figures and a few really simple sound bites that people can obsess over - TPP and Glass-Seagal. It's about reducing an incredibly complicated world and decision making down to a few key purity tests.

And then if you are Hillary, even if you meet them they won't believe her because 'ambitious and untrustworthy!'
 

pigeon

Banned
Maybe you should read the chain of posts before making ignorant remarks. I said they didn't treat him fairly. There is no point in debating if someone claims that the DNC did nothing wrong and it's all dandy.

Interim chairwoman Donna Brazile offered an apology on behalf of the DNC, but no, it's all good according to you. Nothing to see here.

I mean, literally the post you responded to is "can you describe the stuff that you think the DNC did wrong," to which you said basically "no, conversation is over."

I really can't think of a more sterling example of echo chamber behavior and I post in PoliGAF every day.

If you want to discuss an issue, literally the bare minimum expectation is that you say what the issue is that you want to discuss and what you think about it.
 

Eidan

Member
Yep - it's never been about actual politics. It's about messiah figures and a few really simple sound bites that people can obsess over - TPP and Glass-Seagal. It's about reducing an incredibly complicated world and decision making down to a few key purity tests.

And then if you are Hillary, even if you meet them they won't believe her because 'ambitious and untrustworthy!'

It's about ego, plain and simple. These people put a lot emotionally into Sanders' campaign, he lost, and they feel personally bruised over it. So bruised that they'd actively vote against their better interest to "send a message". I have no patience for Busters, especially after yesterday.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Yep - it's never been about actual politics. It's about messiah figures and a few really simple sound bites that people can obsess over - TPP and Glass-Seagal. It's about reducing an incredibly complicated world and decision making down to a few key purity tests.

And then if you are Hillary, even if you meet them they won't believe her because 'ambitious and untrustworthy!'

It's funny because they're all great and highly intelligent people and this is literally the only thing I've ever seen any of them make a dumb decision about.
 

pigeon

Banned
It's funny because they're all great and highly intelligent people and this is literally the only thing I've ever seen any of them make a dumb decision about.

There are none so dumb as those who are highly intelligent. Makes it harder to revise your priors.
 
Go on and elaborate on how both will materially make the California delegation Busterbluths lives worse.

I will read intently assuming it doesn't falsely claim the latter's repeal as the cause of the Great Recession and/or that size in itself means risk. And so on.
I didn't have any points of contention with what you said. It was just the terminology you used made me wonder if you were being sarcastic or not :lol
 
CoTVNDwWAAAOmux.jpg:large
 
Somebody should make red hats that say

Сделать Америку
великой Снова
 

NeoXChaos

Member
When Elizabeth Warren spoke, the Bernie hold-outs of Michigan sat there in grim anger, arms crossed, fake birds pinned to their hats. They liked Warren, but didn’t like that she was selling out to Hillary. “Not for sale!” some of them yelled.

When Bernie emerged on stage, they screamed his name and his slogans—“This is what democracy looks like!” Many of them cried and refused to believe it was over. “It’s not over!” some of them shouted. “Nooooo!” others hollered. Up and down this Midwestern section, Bernie supporters who so reviled superdelegates were praying for them to see the light and switch to Bernie’s side tomorrow, thereby annulling the popular vote of the Democratic primary, which had not been in their favor. “You never know how many people have turned since Wikileaks!” one Michigan delegate told the correspondent of Michigan Radio. She held out hope that tomorrow’s vote would tilt toward Bernie.

“Are you going to vote for Hillary in November?” the reporter asked her.
“I’m voting for Bernie tomorrow,” she said, defiantly. “He asked us to vote for him tomorrow.”
“He also asked for you to vote for Hillary in November,” the reporter pressed.
“I’m voting for Bernie tomorrow!
Nearby, a schoolteacher named Tammy Lewis sat weeping softly. “We’ll never have a chance like this again,” she said, dabbing her dark eyes with a white tissue. Her husband, she said, was a NAFTA victim and she wasn’t about to let TPP destroy her family a second time. But she was at a loss after Bernie’s speech. “He’s doing what he has to do,” she said with a melancholy admiration. “He knows he has to stop Trump. He’s a good man.”
“I’m voting for Bernie tomorrow, that’s what I came here to do,” she said with a quiet sadness. Would she vote for Hillary in the fall, as Bernie had asked of her? “Maybe,” she said, lost. “I don’t know. I know I have to stop Trump, too. But the choice is either I press the pause button or go back in time with Trump.” She rose to leave and wiped her eyes.
“It’s not what I wanted,” she said, and left the hall.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/life-among-the-berned-214099#ixzz4FWxfBxiv
 
Life among the Berned

I mean these guys, really?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/life-among-the-berned-214099





Give me a break. Keep reading for squabbles within New Mexico delegation and their fights against Indiana. Democrats being Democrats.

The second girl with the tape is literally does sponsored content for upworthy lol. Glorious revolution will include corporate plugs!

As long as nobody boos bill. You don't boo a president. It's a new level of rude.

SUPER PREDATORS!
 
There are none so dumb as those who are highly intelligent. Makes it harder to revise your priors.

Ain't this the truth. My cousin went to Harvard but is an anti-vaxxer, Monsanto alarmist type. Luckily he doesn't mind getting into rip-roaring arguments. But I don't expect to ever change his mind, either.
 

pigeon

Banned
Also, here's Tyler Cowen making the case for more shaming of voters who disagree with you:

marginalrevolution said:
I see a number of proposals for inducing less well informed voters to make better choices:

1. Educating them better.

2. Boosting the rate of sustainable economic growth, which tends to persuade people to support better policies.

3. “Buying” voters with one-off transfers, in the hope they will show more support for the better sides of the system.

4. Shaming voters away from making mistakes.

5. Actually giving them control over electoral outcomes, say by having the elites copy the voting choices of the less informed.

Most of us prefer the first two options, but they are relatively hard to accomplish. What is striking is how much attention #3 gets relative to #4 and #5....

#4 is under-discussed. Take the less informed voters who voted for the better candidates in the 1960s. Why did they do that? Note that many of those people believed some pretty terrible things, including about race and about the suitability of George Wallace for higher office. I believe shame is part of the answer — they did not want to feel the shame of deviating from the preferences the elites wanted them to express.

Perhaps it is hard to re-bottle that genie, but there are plenty of historical examples where shame cultures go away and then return, consider for instance the United States after the 1920s.

There is a literature on shame and voting behavior, though from what I can tell most of it concerns participation per se rather than the quality of electoral choice. Here is one striking sentence:

Pride motivates compliance with voting norms only amongst high-propensity voters, while shame mobilizes both high- and low-propensity voters.

Hmm.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/07/shame-and-voter-behavior.html

Get on your Facebook today and tell somebody they are a human waste.
 
Also, here's Tyler Cowen making the case for more shaming of voters who disagree with you:



http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/07/shame-and-voter-behavior.html

Get on your Facebook today and tell somebody they are a human waste.

I do that and like two or three concern trolls (always the same and good people) keep talking to me about how we can't be mean and these are the people we need in the party.

Never mind I'm not shaming bernie voters but busters. But they always go back to why do you hate bernie. I don't

then I have on really annoying troll-y socialist who just posts passive agressive shit and jacobin posts about how the neoliberals are the worst and Trump isn't that bad and something.

But yes, shame is good. We are in a society and we want people to like us! And even faked behavior leads to opinion change.

Shame is we won pretty much every social advancement. And its why people fret so much about PC and being called a bigot/homophobic/islamphobic/racist. Because it works!
 
I mean, literally the post you responded to is "can you describe the stuff that you think the DNC did wrong," to which you said basically "no, conversation is over."

I really can't think of a more sterling example of echo chamber behavior and I post in PoliGAF every day.

If you want to discuss an issue, literally the bare minimum expectation is that you say what the issue is that you want to discuss and what you think about it.

This is my last reply on this issue as a mod has asked people to move on. Chain of events:

If someone isn't a member of your party and doesn't represent the parties views then why in the world wouldn't they try to prevent him from winning the nomination? He should have run as an independent or a member of the green party.

He switched hi allegiance to the party and was supposed to be treated fairly. Are you seriously defending DWS and the DNC actions?

EDIT: Sanders running as an independent/green party - at this point in American politics - is a guarantee for a Trump presidency. Until both the green party and the libertarians have more of a voice and are treated more fairly, we're stuck with Dems/Reps.

Basically I'm replying to the guy implying that the DNC should prevent Sanders from winning the nomination and that Sanders should have run as an independent

What specifically did the DNC do to prevent Sanders from winning the nomination? I haven't seen anything that doesn't happen in every election.

Allrighty then.

The guy says he sees this in every election after implying the DNC should prevent Sanders from winning the nomination, and to me that ends the dialog.

Furthermore, I said Sanders was treated unfairly. This is obvious from the leaked emails to DWS stepping down. I don't know how you can argue against it. The badmouthing done on the emails clearly shows a preference to one candidate while undermining the other after DWS had gone on the media early in the primaries claiming they were impartial to any candidate.

As the neogaf mod said, Sanders didn't lose because of that. And I never claimed he did.
 

pigeon

Banned
I do that and like two or three concern trolls (always the same and good people) keep talking to me about how we can't be mean and these are the people we need in the party.

Never mind I'm not shaming bernie voters but busters. But they always go back to why do you hate bernie. I don't

then I have on really annoying troll-y socialist who just posts passive agressive shit and jacobin posts about how the neoliberals are the worst and Trump isn't that bad and something.

Link them to this article and tell them to shut up and that their mothers would be so disappointed.
 

Valhelm

contribute something

This is funny and all but capitalism is unsustainable. Any system based on perennial growth can't go forever without sporadic collapses to turn back the clock.

Even if you think capitalism is the best system, it invariably requires shrinkages and busts to give more room to grow.
 

pigeon

Banned
Also, here's my hot take for the day: primary rigging is an important part of a Madisonian democracy which seeks to balance the roar of the mob against the mischief of faction. It's republican democracy working as intended. The founding fathers would wholeheartedly approve.
 
This is funny and all but capitalism is unsustainable. Any system based on perennial growth can't go forever without sporadic collapses to turn back the clock.

Even if you think capitalism is the best system, it invariably requires shrinkages and busts to give more room to grow.

I'm laughing at the gmo-peach thing to prove they're not cops.
 
Also, here's my hot take for the day: primary rigging is an important part of a Madisonian democracy which seeks to balance the roar of the mob against the mischief of faction. It's republican democracy working as intended. The founding fathers would wholeheartedly approve.

I agree!

But we teach civics so poorly in this country. We pretend that peoples choices should be reflected perfectly by candidates rather than candidates assembling different coalitions. and as trump likes to play at his rallies: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.
 
The guy says he sees this in every election after implying the DNC should prevent Sanders from winning the nomination, and to me that ends the dialog.

Furthermore, I said Sanders was treated unfairly. This is obvious from the leaked emails to DWS stepping down. I don't know how you can argue against it. The badmouthing done on the emails clearly shows a preference to one candidate while undermining the other after DWS had gone on the media early in the primaries claiming they were impartial to any candidate.

As the neogaf mod said, Sanders didn't lose because of that. And I never claimed he did.

Maybe I was being overly glib but my basic point is that Sanders has spent decades in politics outside of the Democratic party, then jumps in just to run for President. Then he spends months bashing the DNC and promising to overturn the system. Why is it surprising that officials there were writing nasty emails about the campaign? I agree that they wanted Clinton to win but I still haven't seen any actual actions that hurt the Sanders campaign. Until someone can point to concrete actions taken by the DNC its not fair to say they tried to screw him over.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I'm laughing at the gmo-peach thing to prove they're not cops.

The whole anti GMO thing is pretty weird. I guess it's blowback from legitimate criticism of agriculture companies, mixed with knee-jerk disgust at the idea of "chemicals" being in food.

Unlike really any other progressive cause, there's zero academic literature or serious activism behind the anti-GMO movement. It's entirely grassroots, and politicians respond to it rather than promoting it. Even politicians with anti-GMO positions (Bernie and Jill Stein) seem to only hold those views at the insistence of their supporters.

You're linking to a site called Marginal Revolution. It will be summarily dismissed.

Fabius Maximus is crying somewhere in Elysium
 

Grief.exe

Member
The whole anti GMO thing is pretty weird. I guess it's blowback from legitimate criticism of agriculture companies, mixed with knee-jerk disgust at the idea of "chemicals" being in food.

Unlike really any other progressive cause, there's zero academic literature or serious activism behind the anti-GMO movement. It's entirely grassroots, and politicians respond to it rather than promoting it. Even politicians with anti-GMO positions (Bernie and Jill Stein) seem to only hold those views at the insistence of their supporters.

Stein is like the Liberal version of a Republican.
 

effzee

Member
I find it baffling that a bunch of the Busters I know all love Obama but have switched to the Green Party over this, when Obama is much closer to Hillary than Bernie.

Personality politics are weird.

Yeah it's weird.

They like Obama yet attribute any failures of his administration to Hillary.
 
Just realized something.

Whose to say wikileaks isn't holding on to emails that show kindness and fairness to sanders from the DNC? Or someone shutting down bias or actions to undermine sanders

They control the release, we have no idea if they are being transparent (they're not!)
 

hawk2025

Member
The whole anti GMO thing is pretty weird. I guess it's blowback from legitimate criticism of agriculture companies, mixed with knee-jerk disgust at the idea of "chemicals" being in food.

Unlike really any other progressive cause, there's zero academic literature or serious activism behind the anti-GMO movement. It's entirely grassroots, and politicians respond to it rather than promoting it. Even politicians with anti-GMO positions (Bernie and Jill Stein) seem to only hold those views at the insistence of their supporters.



Fabius Maximus is crying somewhere in Elysium


You don't hold a position as dangerous as a moratorium on GMOs as a "response".

Bernie and Jill's positions are very, very far apart.


You're linking to a site called Marginal Revolution. It will be summarily dismissed.

That's when you double down on the shaming!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom