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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
From what I understand all the ethnic Russians that were pumped into the region over decades for just this exact purpose really wanted Russia to invade a foreign nation and take over Crimea, so it's probably ok.

Just like how the Chinese justify clamping down on the Uighur and Tibetan people by flooding it with ethnic Han. Or Israeli settlements. I'm sure Trump loves those no matter what they do to the peace process in Palestine.
 
B

BrokenFiction

Member
pigeon said:
Well, that's not really true. George pointed out he was wrong, let him keep talking, and got the whole thing on tape. That is actually what he is supposed to do. He's doing an interview! If you get into shouting matches in your interviews they stop happening.

Other people are supposed to publicize it, which is happening now.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have to be rude about it, but challenging demonstrably and objectively false statements should be done at least once. I wouldn't belabor it either, but one challenge to present a fact is enough.

EDIT: I did just notice this was taped 3 days ago, so some of it gets a pass.
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Zereta said:
Donald Trump Jr tweeted out something about challenging Mr Khan to criticize Trump to his face.

He has since deleted it.

Man, how stupid is this entire family?
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Not just the family, the entire campaign. Jason Miller was just on CNN and the subject of Khan came up and he just kept trying to pivot, and pivot, and pivot to the subject of "radical Islam" since apparently that's the "real issue" at the heart of the matter and he wouldn't talk about anything else. They tried pretty damn hard, but he just refused to talk about it, and kept going back to radical Islam so they had to switch to talking about Trump's comments about the debates, where he kept trying to link the Clinton campaign to the debates somehow and just stick to the exact same talking points. Like, it's insane how blatantly he was fed an exact set of talking points that he refused to deviate from even an inch. They don't have any idea what they're doing at all.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
BrokenFiction said:
He doesn't have to be rude about it, but challenging demonstrably and objectively false statements should be done at least once. I wouldn't belabor it either, but one challenge to present a fact is enough.
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He does! In the quote I posted!

Trump: He's not gonna go into Ukraine, all right?
George: Well, he's already there, isn't he?
 
B

BrokenFiction

Member
StoOgE said:
Are you kidding?

It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You can surf the web all fucking day, then watch 3 minutes of a video and get gold.
Click to expand...

I feel like they'd be like Janine Melnitz.

yf2VPeu.gif
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
pigeon said:
Did we talk at all about the fact that Donald Trump doesn't know Putin invaded the Ukraine?

CosmTB-W8AA5_uS.jpg
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Did he though? He acknowledges the annexation of Crimeria a few questions down.

Trump is so difficult to understand due to his circular reasoning and his speaking mannerisms.

I've read that several times and I can't puzzle out what he's talking about.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Zereta said:
Donald Trump Jr tweeted out something about challenging Mr Khan to criticize Trump to his face.

He has since deleted it.

Man, how stupid is this entire family?
Click to expand...

I need a screen grab of this.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
These undecided numbers are going to start being a problem soon. Conventions are supposed to trim down the undecided figure as people start tuning in and making decisions.

In 2012 the huge undecided numbers tuned in after the first debate and overwhelmingly went for Romney, because they were just disaffected Romney voters who didn't want to say they were voting for him.

The longer the undecided numbers stay so high, the more concerning things get, because we still don't know which way they're likely to jump.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
pigeon said:
These undecided numbers are going to start being a problem soon. Conventions are supposed to trim down the undecided figure as people start tuning in and making decisions.

In 2012 the huge undecided numbers tuned in after the first debate and overwhelmingly went for Romney, because they were just disaffected Romney voters who didn't want to say they were voting for him.

The longer the undecided numbers stay so high, the more concerning things get, because we still don't know which way they're likely to jump.
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Didn't a poll yesterday show they're almost all Democrat leaning voters?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
bangbang i'm a timpani said:
kinda odd how statistically....trump didn't see much of a bump from their aggregate but clinton gets nearly the biggest day/day change in her lead since the start. its huffpo so gotta be some bias here...
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Trump's number has risen dramatically in the past week or so. There's a sharp uptick.

It's just he wasn't starting from a good place to begin with.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
pigeon said:
These undecided numbers are going to start being a problem soon. Conventions are supposed to trim down the undecided figure as people start tuning in and making decisions.

In 2012 the huge undecided numbers tuned in after the first debate and overwhelmingly went for Romney, because they were just disaffected Romney voters who didn't want to say they were voting for him.

The longer the undecided numbers stay so high, the more concerning things get, because we still don't know which way they're likely to jump.
Click to expand...

Well you should wait to see post-DNC numbers across a number of pollsters, but it's a little concerning. Note Clinton does hit 50% in the PPP poll 2-way. But maybe this is conventional wisdom-- undecideds and third parties could actually not vote or vote for a third party this year whereas historically they never do.

I wonder if the Clinton campaign internals show something different.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
pigeon said:
These undecided numbers are going to start being a problem soon. Conventions are supposed to trim down the undecided figure as people start tuning in and making decisions.

In 2012 the huge undecided numbers tuned in after the first debate and overwhelmingly went for Romney, because they were just disaffected Romney voters who didn't want to say they were voting for him.

The longer the undecided numbers stay so high, the more concerning things get, because we still don't know which way they're likely to jump.
Click to expand...

PPP said they were mostly dem leaning favoring another Obama term.

They just don't like the two candidates.

The favorables were like 2 and 3 respectively lol

Lots of Bernie people I think they said too.
 
D

Diablos

Member
pigeon said:
That's true. I'm probably being a little diablosy. Even if they sit out or vote for Stein, they're very unlikely to go for Trump if they hate him.
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But like I was saying yesterday it's the not knowing part. This election is so different than any other one that we've had. You aren't wrong by being concerned. The undecided number needs to shrink
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Y2Kev said:
Like if Romney were in Trump's position this year, it would suck, but at least we're not dealing with a piece of human trash. If there were a Democrat who believed in, I dunno, eugenics or something, I'd have to think about it. But so much about my objection to Trump is character driven rather than policy driven (though those are highly objectionable as well).
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Romney is human trash and was a total loser who claimed a sizable portion of the American people were takers. He selected a VP in Paul Ryan that wanted to gut huge swaths of the public sector. And Ryan's sick goals had virtually nothing to do with gov't overreach or burdensome regulation like Mr. Trump. He just gets a kick out of going after programs that help blacks and brings groups like seniors out of poverty. Mr. Trump meanwhile wants to make America great again.

Also Hillary's spin on the economy called out once again: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-half-true-claim-about-job-recovery/

Someone needs to put a stop to this.
 
A

ampere

Member
Isn't Hillary also doing better than Obama did with every demographic outside of white male no college?

This election is going to be all about the GOTV. We get turnout, we win. With the recent strikedown of voter ID laws, there should be nothing stopping the Democrat turnout machine.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
AnotherDayAnotherDollar said:
What are her position on those?
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GMOs are bad because who gives a fuck about science.
Nuclear power is bad because who gives a fuck about science.
I'm not saying immunizations are bad, but people have very valid concerns about them and what with Monsanto influencing the FDA you can't blame them for being concerned because who gives a fuck about science.

Banning GMOs will prevent science from helping fight against malnutrition and hunger all around the globe.
Refusing to make new nuclear power stations will lead to dirtier energy.
Questioning immunizations will help lead to diseases we had beaten into the ground coming back.

There is no sound scientific basis for holding any of these views and they are all harmful.

The fact is, science denial and questioning of scientific method, is not something I can tolerate in a candidate. Your gut feelings or religious beliefs are not equivalent to the scientific process. When your feelings or beliefs run counter to the scientific process... it is massively ignorant and arrogant to stick with your feelings or beliefs.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
plagiarize said:
GMOs are bad because who gives a fuck about science.
Nuclear power is bad because who gives a fuck about science.
I'm not saying immunizations are bad, but people have very valid concerns about them and what with Monsanto influencing the FDA you can't blame them for being concerned because who gives a fuck about science.

Banning GMOs will prevent science from helping fight against malnutrition and hunger all around the globe.
Refusing to make new nuclear power stations will lead to dirtier energy.
Questioning immunizations will help lead to diseases we had beaten into the ground coming back.

There is no sound scientific basis for holding any of these views and they are all harmful.

The fact is, science denial and questioning of scientific method, is not something I can tolerate in a candidate. Your gut feelings or religious beliefs are not equivalent to the scientific process. When your feelings or beliefs run counter to the scientific process... it is massively ignorant and arrogant to stick with your feelings or beliefs.
Click to expand...

The most ironic thing about her movement is her desire for clean energy, yet her staunch opposition of nuclear power.

That is literally the cleanest, safest answer to green energy not being able to produce at all times.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
TheLaughingStock said:
Romney is human trash and was a total loser who claimed a sizable portion of the American people were takers. He selected a VP in Paul Ryan that wanted to gut huge swaths of the public sector. And Ryan's sick goals had virtually nothing to do with gov't overreach or burdensome regulation like Mr. Trump. He just gets a kick out of going after programs that help blacks and brings groups like seniors out of poverty. Mr. Trump meanwhile wants to make America great again.

Also Hillary's spin on the economy called out once again: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-half-true-claim-about-job-recovery/

Someone needs to put up stop to this.
Click to expand...

The joke is really tired now.

(You're kidding, right?)
 
U

User 463088

Banned
spock said:
Apologies for the delayed reply as I went to bed, etc. It is true that whats done is done and Bernie is no longer an option...

However you seem to be missing my point on his strength as a candidate against someone like trump in contrast to hillary. Yes bernie had trouble with minorities and certain blocks of the democratic party, but do you think if he did win the nomination those groups would flip and vote trump over bernie? Bernie's strength with white voters is exactly why he would have done better against trump. It is white voters hillary is losing/lacking not traditional dem group.
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No worries.

White Democratic Primary voters and White General Election voters are two entirely different groups of people. Bernie's coalition was made up of a lot of white, democratic primary voters. (Also, they were far younger than the GE electorate at large). Their numbers pale in comparison to white GE voters. Simply having a D by your name has become a turn off (of sorts) to white voters in General. Obama lost the white vote by 20 points, but still won in 2012 because of his strength with other voting groups.

Bernie's campaign never showed that they had the ability to resonate strongly with some of these groups. So while he may have done okay with them, he may have been unable to drive up turnout. His message simply wasn't as resonate with these groups as Hillary's was.

There seems to be a trend of saying Bernie's demographic advantages are the product of Bernie being a great candidate, and Hillary either not having any GE advantages OR them just being the product of being "Generic Democrat." And I don't think that's true at all.
 
H

Holmes

Member
If the best that Canova's team can cook up is an 8 point lead for DWS in their internal polling, then he's not going to win.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Holmes said:
If the best that Canova's team can cook up is an 8 point lead for DWS in their internal polling, then he's not going to win.
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Agreed. She's actually pretty popular, especially among the older (mostly Jewish) Democrats who vote in her district. It's hard to primary someone, and I think she's got this. But I want to make sure.

The DNC was really, really well done. And while it's not solely on her she deserved some praise for how it went. She was a terrible DNC chair, but I think she should keep her seat.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
Trump is like a confused Pokemon; give it enough time and he' going to knock himself out. I just don't see how Trump improves in his polling/support between now and the election.

The only major event remaining is the debates which, based on Trump's past behavior, may not even happen. That plus the refusal to disclose tax returns plays into a "Trump is scared/cowardly" message which I think can do real damage to his supporters who need to see him as this hyper-aggressive never back down fighter.

And if he did show up to the debates he's going to be destroyed. General election debates are an entirely different beast than the primary ones.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Grief.exe said:
The most ironic thing about her movement is her desire for clean energy, yet her staunch opposition of nuclear power.

That is literally the cleanest, safest answer to green energy not being able to produce at all times.
Click to expand...

Until we get cheap energy storage figured out, anyways. But I think we're a few decades away from that.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Brawndo Addict said:
Trump is like a confused Pokemon; give it enough time and he' going to knock himself out. I just don't see how Trump improves in his polling/support between now and the election.

The only major event remaining is the debates which, based on Trump's past behavior, may not even happen. That plus the refusal to disclose tax returns plays into a "Trump is scared/cowardly" message which I think can do real damage to his supporters who need to see him as this hyper-aggressive never back down fighter.

And if he did show up to the debates he's going to be destroyed. General election debates are an entirely different beast than the primary ones.
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The Debates will happen with or without Trump. Each eligible candidate is invited. If only Trump and Hillary are invited, and only Hillary accepts, from what I can gather, the debate goes on anyway. It's just a 90 minute infomercial with Hillary. If Trump refuses to go, Hillary will be RUNNING towards the stage to prove a point.

plagiarize said:
Until we get cheap energy storage figured out, anyways. But I think we're a few decades away from that.
Click to expand...

How are your solar panels doing btw?
 
D

DataStream

Member
Manafort on MTP basically dug Trump a bigger hole. I think that maybe Trump's teflon is wearing off.

Edit: Chuck Todd's questioning on platform language coming from the Trump campaign seemed to be setting up Manafort; there is a story there that NBC is building.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
nature boy said:
Networks say no.
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Ya, that's not how that works. I agree Trump probably wants more people on stage, because Stein would spend the whole time attacking Hillary (she's never getting on stage). The Debates are handled by the Center on Presidential Debates. They have rules and they're not going to change them just to make Donald Trump feel good.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
538's model says the Electoral College is wildly biased towards Trump, Trump has a 6% chance of winning while losing the popular vote according to their model whereas Hillary has only a 1.6% of winning while losing the popular vote.
 
A

ampere

Member
Grief.exe said:
The most ironic thing about her movement is her desire for clean energy, yet her staunch opposition of nuclear power.

That is literally the cleanest, safest answer to green energy not being able to produce at all times.
Click to expand...

It's baffling. Sanders has the same stance! Don't they get that the pollution from nuclear power generation is really contained and not all up in the atmosphere? Well, no they obviously don't get it, but sigh.

adam387 said:
Also, because I'm a petty, petty person....I just donated $50 to DWS.

Mainly because of this http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-going-to-work-for-wasserman-schultzs-primary

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6z179abJU1qjxzk0o1_r1_500.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

She really got shit on too hard. I mean she's not a great DNC chair, but... too much hate.
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