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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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N

nature boy

Member
Trump’s Debt to ‘Brilliant’ Rachel Maddow

Many political consultants have a guru they turn to for wisdom and aphorisms—Sun Tzu, say, or Machiavelli. Steve Bannon, the new CEO of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign has one, too: It’s Rachel Maddow of MSNBC.
“I watch her show every night,” Bannon told me. “I’m a huge fan.”


At first blush, this seems a strange choice. Maddow is an outspoken liberal. Bannon is a populist conservative—until last week, he was executive chairman of the alt-right website Breitbart News (he took leave when he joined the Trump campaign). But as I discovered last fall, while shadowing Bannon for this Bloomberg Businessweek profile, his choice of Maddow as a guiding light makes a certain odd kind of sense.

Bannon’s approach to politics is shaped by his critique of why conservatives failed to stop the Clintons in the 1990s. He believes they relied too heavily on rumor and opinion—and too little on facts—and wound up turning off voters and the mainstream media who dismissed the right as wacky conspiracy theorists. He developed his own aphorism, a kind of 21st Century Sun Tzu: “Facts gets shares, opinions get shrugs.”

He grew to admire Maddow’s signature polemical style, in which she marshals reams of hard evidence to build a crescendoing fact-based indictment of her target. “I think the way she goes through stuff is brilliant,” Bannon exulted. “I won’t say I agree with it. But we study Huffington Post, we study Maddow. We don’t study the right. We study the best from the left. That’s who we try to model ourselves after.”

I neglected to include Bannon’s Maddow fixation in my profile. But when I was invited on her show Monday to talk about Bannon, I figured I would mention her biggest fan. She seemed...surprised (you can jump ahead to the 2:15 mark):
Click to expand...

More at the link
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Samarecarm said:
I would have put Oregon on this list. It has a mostly white population, is pretty anti-establishment, and the most recent poll on 538 was only Clinton +3. I mean, in the end Clinton is likely to win it, but it's the kind of state that a more competent version of Trump could have targeted.
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Alaska will go to Clinton before Oregon goes to Trump. Even if Trump had the best campaign infrastructure on the planet, most of Oregon's population is in the Portland-Metro area, or Eugene or Salem, and those places are super liberal. We may be white, but this state is all hippies and lesbians, and they're not really Trump's biggest demographic.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
So while the Foundation attacks have been getting a lot of coverage, I think they will ultimately fall flat unless there is a smoking gun in the emails somewhere. Remember a few weeks ago when everyone was cautioning that Trump would rebound because the .media love a comeback story? Well, we are in that phase now and the best the Trump campaign can come up with is vague allegations that have generally already been baked in. Beyond that, the national polls have been remarkably consistent and the state polls have shown Clinton gaining ground while this media barrage is going on. The Clinton team is already pushing back on this line of attack, but if it is the best Trump's got, then he's royally fucked.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Bowdz said:
So while the Foundation attacks have been getting a lot of coverage, I think they will ultimately fall flat unless there is a smoking gun in the emails somewhere. Remember a few weeks ago when everyone was cautioning that Trump would rebound because the .media love a comeback story? Well, we are in that phase now and the best the Trump campaign can come up with is vague allegations that have generally already been baked in. Beyond that, the national polls have been remarkably consistent and the state polls have shown Clinton gaining ground while this media barrage is going on. The Clinton team is already pushing back on this line of attack, but if it is the best Trump's got, then he's royally fucked.
Click to expand...

His contributions to the foundation also negate that line of attack. Just now the CNN lower third said "Aide: Trump contributed to foundation, 'It does good work' ".
 
B

Bowdz

Member
teiresias said:
His contributions to the foundation also negate that line of attack. Just now the CNN lower third said "Aide: Trump contributed to foundation, 'It does good work' ".
Click to expand...

Yeah, I fully expect Clinton to land a body blow with that if he brings it up in the debates. Honestly, the debates are the next major inflection point coming up. The Clinton strategy right now is pretty sound IMO: fundraise like crazy, ad blitz to define Trump, push back against any major attacks, and lay low trying to not commit any major unforced error. They just need to keep that strategy up along side daily debate prep/strategy sessions and they'll be solid until the 26th.
 
I

Iolo

Member
Debirudog said:
I hope Mook might address something how the campaign would tackle the Clinton foundation accusations.
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According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought Swiftboating didn't need to be answered either.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Iolo said:
According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought the same thing about Swiftboating.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
Click to expand...

that sounds like a stupid strategy :/
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Iolo said:
According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought Swiftboating didn't need to be answered either.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
Click to expand...

How does she answer?
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
The conclusion from Bannon watching Maddow isn't "but they don't have facts," it's that they believe 'facts' are more importance than 'rumors' aka whisper campaigns. So it doesn't matter that their facts are wrong, it's that they look like facts and not hearsay.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Iolo said:
According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought Swiftboating didn't need to be answered either.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree entirely, just note that they clearly have swiftboating in their rearview and have even talked about how they'll pick and choose what to push back on.

Also worth noting that if she were responding to X Y Z we'd all be saying she is violating the first rule of war (don't stop your enemy from killing himself).
 
D

Dierce

Member
Iolo said:
According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought Swiftboating didn't need to be answered either.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is a pretty horrible strategy and I hope that they are only saying this to catch orange turd off guard. Orange turd is presenting the Clinton campaign with countless opportunities to redirect the attention towards him with these conspiracies and accusations of corruption but they are doing absolutely nothing about it. The problem with this strategy of doing nothing is that in the eyes of many people it legitimizes accusations because Clinton is not defending herself efficiently.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Samarecarm said:
I would have put Oregon on this list. .
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It would be really resource-intensive (manpower wise specifically) for Trump to dredge out the number of votes he would need in the rural parts of the state. Also after some high profile losses statewide in WA I think the national GOP is leery of getting too invested in the PNW in general.
 
E

Emarv

Member
CNN today on the Clinton Foundation stuff has just been nonstop: "Okay, we know there's no proof here, but it sure does look bad, right? Optics and politics, right?"

"Well, again, there's no proof of anything, so..."

"Yeah, but we're talking about it, so let's talk about how corrupt she looks, you know?"
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Iolo said:
According to a Poolitico article from today---the kind of article that quotes "campaign insiders" and "people close to the campaign" and "James Carville"---the campaign (read: Clinton) does not believe that attacks on the emails and Foundation need to be answered, because she doesn't believe she did anything with even the hint of impropriety, and she is winning by so much. Of course John Kerry thought Swiftboating didn't need to be answered either.

So probably they will ignore it and she won't have a good answer for the debate, but she'll win anyway.

When Clinton is ahead she likes to take her foot off the gas.
Click to expand...

That kind of contradicts what others like CNN are reporting in addition to the reality of the day. Fallon, Benenson, and Mook have been everywhere the past few days pushing back on this and campaign surrogates on TV and online are pushing back hard as well. CNN was reporting that the Clinton team was caught flat footed with the Foundation story because they thought it had passed after the email investigation was locked up, but that they are absolutely going into damage control mode to rebut the attacks.
 
D

Dierce

Member
Bowdz said:
That kind of contradicts what others like CNN are reporting in addition to the reality of the day. Fallon, Benenson, and Mook have been everywhere the past few days pushing back on this and campaign surrogates on TV and online are pushing back hard as well. CNN was reporting that the Clinton team was caught flat footed with the Foundation story because they thought it had passed after the email investigation was locked up, but that they are absolutely going into damage control mode to rebut the attacks.
Click to expand...
Well the problem is that it shouldn't be about defending her. They can use this as an opportunity to attack orange fucking turd where it hurts him the most, his pathetic business. He is the true conman in all of this and he deserves more scrutiny on the basis that his grotesque business is for profit and there is clearly a conflict of interest when you run on a platform of deregulation and massive tax cuts.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
There was a Vox article a while back about how, whatever Clinton's team does, people will complain that she's doing the wrong thing.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Bowdz said:
That kind of contradicts what others like CNN are reporting in addition to the reality of the day. Fallon, Benenson, and Mook have been everywhere the past few days pushing back on this and campaign surrogates on TV and online are pushing back hard as well. CNN was reporting that the Clinton team was caught flat footed with the Foundation story because they thought it had passed after the email investigation was locked up, but that they are absolutely going into damage control mode to rebut the attacks.
Click to expand...

They have another one that says what you are saying.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/...massive-misrepresentations-in-ap-story-227353
 
I

Iolo

Member
To be clear, I don't think that article should be taken very seriously. Poolitico insider articles are full of anonymous diablosing Democrats who are "close to the campaign" because they once passed Robby Mook without recognizing him.

But she's still best fighting with her back against the wall.

Also Bill Kristol thinks Trump will lose, which is giving me pause this election.
 
R

royalan

Member
Bowdz said:
That kind of contradicts what others like CNN are reporting in addition to the reality of the day. Fallon, Benenson, and Mook have been everywhere the past few days pushing back on this and campaign surrogates on TV and online are pushing back hard as well. CNN was reporting that the Clinton team was caught flat footed with the Foundation story because they thought it had passed after the email investigation was locked up, but that they are absolutely going into damage control mode to rebut the attacks.
Click to expand...

I find this hard to believe, because unless the Clinton campaign has suddenly gone dumb there is no way they couldn't have anticipated Republicans going after the gigantic red beeping target that is The Clinton Foundation. And really, it's the Clintons own fucking fault.

I've been wondering for years why the Clintons didn't do more to promote the Foundation to the average person, because as it stands now it has been incredibly easy for Republicans and media to define the Foundation as corrupt because, outside of the donor class, most people don't know what the hell it is.

And it's a shame that a charity that does an enormous amount of good around the world is quite likely going to have is effectiveness severely hampered (or, at worst, be shut down) because the Clintons did nothing to protect it.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Well it seems now they are pushing back. People will have their perceptions still about what it is but at least their side will be out there.
 
V

Voysa Reezun

Banned
Fenderputty said:
What's a Nintendo?
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A Nintendo is a thing that used to be great, but now is in total decline.

Just like America. Sad!

jbug617 said:
Not happy with the NC poll. How much did Trump gain since the last one? Diablos mode is rising
Click to expand...

If you're unhappy with a poll that shows Clinton up two in North Carolina of all things, the only thing that you should Diablos about is that you have the characteristic of someone who overhypes things up and then becomes upset when reality doesn't match the hype.
 
R

Retromelon

Member
Fox News A “Sex-Fueled, Playboy Mansion-Like Cult” Says Former Host
A former Fox News host has sued the network, its ousted chairman and other top executives, claiming they retaliated after she detailed unwanted sexual advances made by her onetime boss, Roger Ailes.

Andrea Tantaros described Fox in the lawsuit, filed Monday in New York, as a “sex-fueled, Playboy Mansion-like cult.” She said after she complained last spring about Ailes, one of his top deputies, William Shine, warned her that Ailes was a “very powerful man” and that she “needed to let this one go.”
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Tantaros says her lawsuit is meant to give “life to the saying that ‘the fish stinks from the head,'” claiming she also endured unwanted attention from others at Fox’s New York City studios.

Among them: Former Republican U.S. Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts and Fox host Bill O’Reilly, neither of whom is listed as a defendant in the lawsuit.

Brown “made a number of sexually inappropriate comments to her” while filming on set last August and put his hands “on her lower waist,” the lawsuit said. O’Reilly asked her to stay with him at his Long Island home and told her he believed she had a “wild side,” according to the lawsuit.
Click to expand...
U5xeMNR.jpg
 
I

Iolo

Member
jbug617 said:
Not happy with the NC poll. How much did Trump gain since the last one? Diablos mode is rising
Click to expand...

No previous NC poll from CNN.

+1 HRC is in line with nearly every recent poll out of NC though, with the exception of the +9 poll, which was pretty ridiculous.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
pigeon said:
There was a Vox article a while back about how, whatever Clinton's team does, people will complain that she's doing the wrong thing.
Click to expand...
I havent read the article, but I disagree somewhat if thats the conclusion. Clintons dont particularly care about optics, and that usually gets them in hot water. She technically didnt send or receive classified info at hrod17@clintonemail.com, and said everything truthful to FBI. But the optics dont care. Someone else forwarded an improperly marked chain to her and she gets punished for saying she didnt send or receive classified info. Same thing with Clinton foundation. Same thing with Bill meeting Lynch on the tarmac. She gave speech to goldman sachs because she's from NY and an influential international leader. Nothing illegal. The optics weren't kind. She's corrupt and sold out. Same shit with Whitewater! It never ends. Its crazy how they survived this long.

I think there's a lot to criticize the clintons for and not all of it is baseless.
 
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