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[ShadowSwordmaster]

I have a crazy idea everyone. Let's not vote in 2018 or 2020 because it won't matter at all.

 

[faisal233]

I have a crazy idea everyone. Let's not vote in 2018 or 2020 because it won't matter at all.

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

But yeah, GOP can do no wrong so far.

They almost lost a seat in Kansas and will probably lose a seat in Georgia. They absolutely can do wrong.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

Damn Wallstreet people.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

Stein is full of shit.

 

[Kevinroc]

They almost lost a seat in Kansas and will probably lose a seat in Georgia. They absolutely can do wrong.

I think they know they have very little time to enact as much of their agenda as humanly possible. I don't think they're thinking long term. I think it's all about what they can do NOW.

It's a con job.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

A vote for Jill is a vote to ban cars

 

[GrapeApes]

A vote for Jill is a vote to ban cars

Who would want to ban cars? If there are no cars then there is no Optimus Prime. A vote for Jill Stein is a blank check for the Decepticons to run unchecked.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Who would want to ban cars?

Well from what I saw last week a few people who post here regularly are not opposed to it.

 

[Team Alucard]

The markets are NOT going to react positively to this healthcare bill considering that it fucks over basically everyone, INCLUDING those under employer based insurance.

Wrong. The Markets only care about taxes. Passing the AHCA makes it easier for them to enact their massive cuts, and more importantly, make them permanent rather than have an expiration of 10 years.

 

[GrapeApes]

Well from what I saw last week a few people who post here regularly are not opposed to it.

Did not know that was based in reality. It's 2017 not going back to the 19th century. People not going back to the days of stagecoaches.

 

[DrForester]

 

[Y2Kev]

Wrong. The Markets only care about taxes. Passing the AHCA makes it easier for them to enact their massive cuts, and more importantly, make them permanent rather than have an expiration of 10 years.

I mean, not really. "The Markets" are a lot of things. The healthcare sector itself won't be happy if people lose the ability or means to pay for its own product, and as a sector the industry already pays a ridiculously low tax rate given its IP structure. You have to separate out domestic providers-- hospitals, insurance-- from pharma and medical devices. I think there's a reason hospital stocks tanked after Trump won.

In any case, it's not so straight forward.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

Democrats are often bad and are too friendly with moneyed interests and are definitely too willing to indiscriminately bomb foreigners.

If Jill Stein is your protest vote you might as well not bother voting. If you're going to cast a protest vote at least do it for something better than homeopathy and anti-vaxxing.

A vote for Jill is a vote to ban cars

You're supposed to try and make it less compelling to vote for her.

 

[fredrancour]

Vote for Jill Stien if you want to make a real difference, otherwise you are only choosing between either side of the same corporatist coin.

Left-wing ideas don't have to be synonymous with anti-intellectualism. We can have social democracy without republican levels of anti-scientific delusion and a deep disdain for the concept of expertise.

 

[Team Alucard]

I mean, not really. "The Markets" are a lot of things. The healthcare sector itself won't be happy if people lose the ability or means to pay for its own product, and as a sector the industry already pays a ridiculously low tax rate given its IP structure. You have to separate out domestic providers-- hospitals, insurance-- from pharma and medical devices. I think there's a reason hospital stocks tanked after Trump won.

In any case, it's not so straight forward.

For political purposes, "the market" means the S&P500 and the DJIA indices, both of which saw their largest weekly loss since Trump was elected when the first AHCA vote failed, despite hospital stocks rallying in response.

If the AHCA passes, you will see a large rally because it will restore faith in the abiltiy of the GOP to deliver tax cuts and deregulation.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Left-wing ideas don't have to be synonymous with anti-intellectualism. We can have social democracy without republican levels of anti-scientific delusion and a deep disdain for the concept of expertise.

What's funny is that the internet is slowly shattering that notion. Although it's a meme "If it's on the internet it's gotta be true!" there are many individuals out there who choose what information they want to hear and once they find it, then they're right and you can no longer disprove them.

Flat earther is a great example. The internet is a vast source of information and they choose from videos that validate their claims, and any attempt to show them otherwise will not work because they now have proof and no longer open to any opposing theory.

No clue how to reverse this too without impeding on freedom of speech.

 

[Dan]

With School Vouchers, Who Benefits and Who's Left Behind? Indiana's Program Offers Lessons.



Much longer article at the link.

Researchers Mark Berends of Notre Dame and R. Joseph Waddington of the University of Kentucky have spent years studying Indiana's voucher program and its impact. While they've not yet released their statewide results, they have published a narrower view — of Indianapolis kids in grades 3-8.

The numbers aren't promising.

Students in Indianapolis who left public schools to attend private Catholic schools, for example, experienced no benefit in reading but "moderate and statistically significant average annual losses in mathematics compared with the gains they experienced while attending traditional public schools," the report says.

Berends adds that's "roughly like students moving from the 50th percentile down to about the 44th percentile" in math. And, he says, that's the effect over the course of one year.

"So, if this continues over multiple years," Berends warns, "you can see that that's a pretty dramatic drop in achievement. By analyzing additional years, we'll be able to see if further losses occur or not."

While it's not yet clear whether students performed similarly statewide, Berends says his Indianapolis results are consistent with studies of voucher programs in Louisiana and Ohio. A new review of the only federally funded voucher program in the country, in Washington, D.C., also found academic declines among students who used a voucher to attend a private school.

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

The school then makes clear that, "in situations in which the home life violates these standards, LCA reserves the right, within its sole discretion, to refuse admission of an applicant or to discontinue enrollment of a student."

Lighthouse received $665,400 in state voucher dollars this year.

And Behning argues that the program can be judged a failure — or unnecessary — when parents stop choosing to use vouchers to leave the state's public schools.

The problem with that standard is that more than half of this year's voucher class didn't leave a public school — because they've never attended one.

Grrrrrrrrrrr. Funneling money to religious schools that demonize anything non-heteronormative, deliver worse academic performance, and cater very disproportionately to people who never even gave public school a chance.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Grrrrrrrrrrr. Funneling money to religious schools that demonize anything non-heteronormative, deliver worse academic performance, and cater very disproportionately to people who never even gave public school a chance.

yep. shit like this is why im 100% against charter and other private schools.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Do you think that what Trump has done, just from what we know and can prove, is worse than hat Nixon did?

 

[Sibylus]

Do you think that what Trump has done, just from what we know and can prove, is worse than hat Nixon did?

Yes. Burgling a hotel room and covering it up seems laughable and quaint compared to what 45 and his administration have got up to.

 

[Ernest]

Do you think that what Trump has done, just from what we know and can prove, is worse than hat Nixon did?

Five Reasons the Comey Affair Is Worse Than Watergate

A journalist who covered Nixon’s fall 45 years ago explains why the current challenge to America may be more severe—and the democratic system less capable of handling it.

 

[A Serious Man]

Yes. Burgling a hotel room and covering it up seems laughable and quaint compared to what 45 and his administration have got up to.

Watergate involved a lot more than that.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

This part is bizarre semantically. It's obviously super discriminatory and conservative, but then they're throwing out bisexual to avoid bi-erasure, gender identity, and then using biological sex as distinct from gender. Really strange to read to me.

 

[NervousXtian]

nevermind, probably bs.

 

[thepotatoman]

over/under we see trump reference this in a week.

cnn people being worthless as usual:

https://twitter.com/CillizzaCNN/status/863401376487010304

Cillizza apparently agreeing that elections should be weighed by property ownage.

 

[SerAardvark]

As someone who works on legal/compliance stuff at a bank, it's fun seeing things I work with (like SARs) mentioned in the news that came out on Friday about potentially sketchy things Trump/the Trump Org have done.

 

[Sibylus]

Watergate involved a lot more than that.

Granted, but nothing comes to mind that compares to the seriousness of soliciting help from and being beholden to a hostile foreign power.

 

[thepotatoman]

As someone who works on legal/compliance stuff at a bank, it's fun seeing things I work with (like SARs) mentioned in the news that came out on Friday about potentially sketchy things Trump/the Trump Org have done.

I get to be proud of colorado charter school statistics for working on software for that every time i see local charter school statistics, but half the time i just feel ashamed for it.

 

[Blader]

Nixon sabotaging the 1968 peace talks and lengthening the Vietnam War to boost his electoral chances are much worse than Watergate or Trump's presidency to date. And that's including the Russia collusion.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Five Reasons the Comey Affair Is Worse Than Watergate

A journalist who covered Nixon’s fall 45 years ago explains why the current challenge to America may be more severe—and the democratic system less capable of handling it.

Thanks for the link. Great article.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Say they take back the house, or take back everything in 2020.

That's doubtful. Also, we saw during the financial crisis when the most reputable institutions were committing fraud that there's no will to go after countless individuals involved and most importantly folks who are the big fish. If say the entire GOP leadership was hypothetically compromised and guilty of treason, then everyone outside of the small fries would walk away unscathed. No one is going to have the balls and persistence to secure convictions against people throughout the US government at the highest level.

 

[AntoneM]

Grrrrrrrrrrr. Funneling money to religious schools that demonize anything non-heteronormative, deliver worse academic performance, and cater very disproportionately to people who never even gave public school a chance.

So, basically the Purdue university system is fucked. I mean, he's already gotten approval for this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/04/27/purdue-acquires-for-profit-kaplan-university/?utm_term=.a51478b79dee

Purdue University said Thursday it has acquired for-profit Kaplan University to extend its reach into online and adult education, an unusual move for a public institution.

 

[Diablos]

Five Reasons the Comey Affair Is Worse Than Watergate

A journalist who covered Nixon’s fall 45 years ago explains why the current challenge to America may be more severe—and the democratic system less capable of handling it.

Great read. This sends chills down my spine because this guy lived through the Nixon years and he KNOWS we're going through something worse. We're in a real constitutional crisis and I'm not sure if the US will ever be the same.

 

[Ogodei]

For political purposes, "the market" means the S&P500 and the DJIA indices, both of which saw their largest weekly loss since Trump was elected when the first AHCA vote failed, despite hospital stocks rallying in response.

If the AHCA passes, you will see a large rally because it will restore faith in the abiltiy of the GOP to deliver tax cuts and deregulation.

Yup. The Dow's drive to 22,000 was built on anticipation of major corporate and personal tax cuts. Every move towards AHCA passage will be met by stock boosts

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Great read. This sends chills down my spine because this guy lived through the Nixon years and he KNOWS we're going through something worse. We're in a real constitutional crisis and I'm not sure if the US will ever be the same.

Spoiler Alert:

Spoiler

This will change the country for generations.

 

[Poodlestrike]

"The Markets" love GOP regulatory and tax policies... to a point. Most of the growth so far has been in banking stocks anticipating regulatory relaxation. This is obviously unsustainable for a number of reasons, not least of which being that when the deregulation hits the banks are going to do something boneheaded (again) and destroy the rest of the economy (again).

AHCA in particular is not going to be received well by the markets because it's going to seriously injure an already injured segment. Personal and corporate tax breaks don't nearly offset that.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Spoiler Alert:

Spoiler

This will change the country for generations.

Hopefully for the better....

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Hopefully for the better....

Yeah. I doubt it.

 

[Ogodei]

"The Markets" love GOP regulatory and tax policies... to a point. Most of the growth so far has been in banking stocks anticipating regulatory relaxation. This is obviously unsustainable for a number of reasons, not least of which being that when the deregulation hits the banks are going to do something boneheaded (again) and destroy the rest of the economy (again).

AHCA in particular is not going to be received well by the markets because it's going to seriously injure an already injured segment. Personal and corporate tax breaks don't nearly offset that.

This assumes that the brokers who drive stock prices are purely rational. They believe in trickle-down economics and will price those in to any reactions.

I mean, given the negative correlation history of GOP Presidents to stock market performance, the market should be bearish in anticipation of the contraction that seems to come around with GOP presidents like clockwork. But the trades that drive the market are transacted by people (or transacted by computers programmed by people), and the people behind it believe in the supply side confidence fairy.

 

[Poodlestrike]

This assumes that the brokers who drive stock prices are purely rational. They believe in trickle-down economics and will price those in to any reactions.

I mean, given the negative correlation history of GOP Presidents to stock market performance, the market should be bearish in anticipation of the contraction that seems to come around with GOP presidents like clockwork. But the trades that drive the market are transacted by people (or transacted by computers programmed by people), and the people behind it believe in the supply side confidence fairy.

I mean, you don't have to be purely rational to go "hmm hospitals doctors and insurance companies are saying this bill is going to gut the insurance industry I should probably sell stock in insurance companies and hospitals."

 

[thepotatoman]

I mean, not really. "The Markets" are a lot of things. The healthcare sector itself won't be happy if people lose the ability or means to pay for its own product, and as a sector the industry already pays a ridiculously low tax rate given its IP structure. You have to separate out domestic providers-- hospitals, insurance-- from pharma and medical devices. I think there's a reason hospital stocks tanked after Trump won.

In any case, it's not so straight forward.

Why the hell isn't the health care sector doing a ginormous ad campaign like they did against Hillarycare, and would certainly do against Sanderscare?

Almost seems to me like these big business healthcare folk are as tied into the partisan cult as much as most everyone else. Democrats trying to pass a AHCA type thing would be seeing a huge big business blowback that Republicans are not.

 

[Blader]

Yeah. I doubt it.

The next Dem president + Dem congress combo is certainly going to pass a lot of laws to set in stone the norms Trump is shitting on.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

The next Dem president + Dem congress combo is certainly going to pass a lot of laws to set in stone the norms Trump is shitting on.

Then comes the problem of holding it for the next elections and the elections after those elections. The US political scene is filled with people going back and forth on things.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Then comes the problem of holding it for the next elections and the elections after those elections. The US political scene is filled with people going back and forth on things.

Hell were gonna have to go for a super majority in the states or Congress. Constitution needs amendments.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Yup. The Dow's drive to 22,000 was built on anticipation of major corporate and personal tax cuts. Every move towards AHCA passage will be met by stock boosts

"The Markets" love GOP regulatory and tax policies... to a point. Most of the growth so far has been in banking stocks anticipating regulatory relaxation. This is obviously unsustainable for a number of reasons, not least of which being that when the deregulation hits the banks are going to do something boneheaded (again) and destroy the rest of the economy (again).

AHCA in particular is not going to be received well by the markets because it's going to seriously injure an already injured segment. Personal and corporate tax breaks don't nearly offset that.

Yeah, I'll point out that the "markets" probably didn't care too much for the housing collapse or the Great Depression. There's simply no universe where the economy does well for longer than 6 months (if that) on passage of the AHCA. Healthcare is one of the larger employers as an industry in the country, particularly in rural areas where the only jobs you can count on are hospital jobs (because even in Bumfuck, Nebrahoma you need an ER nearby).

I'm not saying that this will end up stopping the bill from passing. But passage of this bill is a political gold mine that would make 2006 look like a slight Dem shift in retrospect. It's a shit bill that will fuck over a lot of people, many of whom can (and will) exact punishment at the ballot box next year. We're already seeing it in these early races!

I get it, this thing is bad news. I really really don't fucking want it to pass. But it is undeniable that the best outcome for the Dems politically in 2018 is that this thing sticks around for awhile. Hell, we've got votes on record for it now! That alone is a win.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Hell were gonna have to go for a super majority in the states or Congress. Constitution needs amendments.

That will never happen in our lifetime or our kids lifetime.

 

[Nelo Ice]

That will never happen in our lifetime or our kids lifetime.

Yeah and I feel like its the only thing that would stop Republicans dead in their tracks .

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Yeah and I feel like its the only thing that would stop Republicans dead in their tracks .

And that is not happening in our lifetime at least.

 

[FyreWulff]

Hell were gonna have to go for a super majority in the states or Congress. Constitution needs amendments.

only works if people realize getting amendments into the Constitution means wining state legislatures and governor mansions and appointing young judges