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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Teggy said:
She hasn't even heard the tape! She just has a source that says it exists. But for some reason all her followers eat it up.
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That's what's so crazy about this whole thing! How does someone have the balls to write such a thing up, having never heard the tape? How does anyone believe her given she's never heard the tape? The whole thing is insane.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
She's 77 years old, seems to ramble like McCain when she talks sometimes, has a 28% favorable ratings, and could be the sole reason Democrats do not take the back the House.

There's nothing arbitrary about it, at some point she has to step aside. The better question should be why people cling to her like she's the only person on earth that can whip votes.
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Yeh. Nancy Pelosi will be the sole reason Democrats don't reclaim the House. World's biggest eyeroll.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Aaron Strife said:
I think there is something to the idea that younger Democrats need to be groomed better, the leadership team is pretty old and will leave a huge vacuum behind when they're gone. But as long as Pelosi can do the job, there's no one better.
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Sure.
Saying she should be grooming a successor is one thing. Pointlessly calling for her removal when she's effective and there is no clear capable successor is another entirely.
 
R

royalan

Member
Seriously, this whole "Republicans just criticized a Democrat! Quick! Throw em overboard!" argument is always the worst.

And yeah, it does seem aimed at women an awful lot.

We can't be this fucking weak as a party.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
kirblar said:
We will have a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN 2020!

No one cares about the speaker then!
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Anti-Pelosi attack ads have worked in marginal districts. It's not just about carrying the top of the ticket, given how we can see Clinton overperforming downticket Dems (like possible scenarios where she squeaked by in PA and WI but Toomey and Johnson kept their jobs).

I'm not saying she's a super liability, but you can build a 2020 strategy around a brand new Democratic party: new blood at the top of the ticket, new blood in House leadership, and that comes from having both Pelosi and Hoyer retire their positions after 2018.

Damn, Jim Clyburn (the Dems #3) is also 76 years old.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ogodei said:
Anti-Pelosi attack ads have worked in marginal districts. It's not just about carrying the top of the ticket, given how we can see Clinton overperforming downticket Dems (like possible scenarios where she squeaked by in PA and WI but Toomey and Johnson kept their jobs).

I'm not saying she's a super liability, but you can build a 2020 strategy around a brand new Democratic party: new blood at the top of the ticket, new blood in House leadership, and that comes from having both Pelosi and Hoyer retire their positions after 2018.

Damn, Jim Clyburn (the Dems #3) is also 76 years old.
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As long as Democrats have female candidates, they'll be targeted by the GOP like this.

It doesn't matter if it's Pelosi, Clinton or whoever, once one goes they'll pick another.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
royalan said:
Seriously, this whole "Republicans just criticized a Democrat! Quick! Throw em overboard!" argument is always the worst.

And yeah, it does seem aimed at women an awful lot.

We can't be this fucking weak as a party.
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You post great stuff in here and I refuse to believe you are putting Pelosi on the same level as "Generic democrat." As I said before, I LOVE Pelosi. LOVE. She's great. But she has been massacred by the right for years, and her name has a negative connotation even with independents.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
kirblar said:
We will have a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN 2020!

No one cares about the speaker then!
Click to expand...

No one ever kills about the Speaker, unless he/she commits a crime or is embroiled in controversy.

Pelosi is fine. Still effective, still putting in work. I'm sure she knows she's close to the end, but she's not there yet.
 
K

kirblar

Member
In the "no shit, leadership is never popular and always drags you down" category:

DB6fc7bXoAAVi2j.jpg:large
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People don't like being told "no."
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Plinko said:
You post great stuff in here and I refuse to believe you are putting Pelosi on the same level as "Generic democrat." As I said before, I LOVE Pelosi. LOVE. She's great. But she has been massacred by the right for years, and her name has a negative connotation even with independents.
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No one really cares about her though. The GOP attacks her to rile up their own base and insure turnout and they'd do it with the next person too.
 
K

kirblar

Member
B-Dubs said:
No one really cares about her though. The GOP attacks her to rile up their own base and insure turnout and they'd do it with the next person too.
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Like, did people literally not live through the '90s or through '08->'10?

People don't have an excuse for not knowing how this game is played by now, unless they're a kiddiot.
 
R

royalan

Member
Plinko said:
You post great stuff in here and I refuse to believe you are putting Pelosi on the same level as "Generic democrat." As I said before, I LOVE Pelosi. LOVE. She's great. But she has been massacred by the right for years, and her name has a negative connotation even with independents.
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She's not on the level of generic D, but at the same time nobody cares about the speaker of the house. I've encountered way too many people on the left who couldn't even tell you what state Pelosi represents to believe that there's this massive opposition to her that's been cultivated for years.

Republicans will demonize ANYBODY. There is no Democrat on this fucking planet safe from that. Republicans will pick a target, come down on them en masse, and within weeks Republican voters who couldn't even pick the Democrat out of a lineup a month ago will be foaming at the mouth placing every woe at their feet. Did you know Nancy Pelosi is the reason captain crunch scratches the roof of your mouth!? We've got to stop adding to this.

Pelosi is more than competent at her job. She's a fucking maverick. Until a clear successor is lined up, lets stop making the hit job easier for Republicans by cowering in fear every time they single one of us out. They're going to do that anyway.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Pelosi is the Dem MVP for 2007-2011. She should get he gavel as long as she wants it. There should be a transition plan in place, dunno who for. I worry about losing the institutional knowledge at some point. I mean, she's competent so there probably is one.

It's not like when Tom Daschle was Majority Leader the Republicans just went "Tom Daschle?! I love that guy." Tore him apart.
 
T

Teggy

Member
I'm sure trump would be fine being asked about the comey meeting under oath. Without witnesses there is absolutely no way to prove what was said and he could lie all he wants.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
royalan said:
She's not on the level of generic D, but at the same time nobody cares about the speaker of the house. I've encountered way too many people on the left who couldn't even tell you what state Pelosi represents to believe that there's this massive opposition to her that's been cultivated for years.

Republicans will demonize ANYBODY. There is no Democrat on this fucking planet safe from that. Republicans will pick a target, come down on them en masse, and within weeks Republican voters who couldn't even pick the Democrat out of a lineup a month ago will be foaming at the mouth placing every woe at their feet. Did you know Nancy Pelosi is the reason captain crunch scratches the roof of your mouth!? We've got to stop adding to this.

Pelosi is more than competent at her job. She's a fucking maverick. Until a clear successor is lined up, lets stop making the hit job easier for Republicans by cowering in fear every time they single one of us out. They're going to do that anyway.
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Thiiiiiiis

I understand the reaction to the 2016 election and wanting to avoid relying on major Republican hate targets, but if you pivot away from effective people every time the Republican media wing takes aim at them you'll be left as braindead as the Rs are.
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
Among other reasons, I want Pelosi to stay so she can have one of the greatest fucking comebacks in political history. Sam Rayburn had, I think, three separate tenures as Speaker, but he didn't have to contend with all the bullshit Tea Party drama and ensuing fallout.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Pelosi is arguably the model of a perfect Dem; the attacks against her don't have any bite from Republicans because the attacks are just "Pelosi, what a bitch huh?"

The only time we should care what right wing people think is when it's a legitimate scandal (don't run candidates like Wiener for instance).
 
K

kirblar

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
Pelosi is arguably the model of a perfect Dem; the attacks against her don't have any bite from Republicans because the attacks are just "Pelosi, what a bitch huh?"

The only time we should care what right wing people think is when it's a legitimate scandal (don't run candidates like Wiener for instance).
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The lesson is "don't run people who have been in the cross-hairs for a decade+ for Pres", not to not run them at all.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ogodei said:
My line isn't that she has to go, just that the timing is right. New speaker instead of going back to an old speaker.
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If we get a DDD setup in 2020, we need everything ready to go and whipped/pushed through fast. We can't afford to be gambling on a newbie.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
Even Kasich may favor phasing out federal funding of Medicaid expansion

http://www.dispatch.com/news/201706...ing-out-federal-funding-of-medicaid-expansion

WASHINGTON — With his fellow Senate Republicans struggling to produce an Obamacare replacement, Rob Portman of Cincinnati is pushing to gradually scale back federal funding of Medicaid expansion in Ohio and other states.

The proposal stands in contrast with the House-passed version of the Affordable Care Act replacement, which cuts off federal money for Medicaid expansion by 2020.


Another contrast is that Ohio Gov. John Kasich may support the Portman plan.

Spokeswoman Emmalee Kalmbach said Kasich “has previously said that he’s willing to consider a reasonable transition to a regular match (of federal funds), but it would depend on states also getting additional flexibility they need to manage their programs.”

The Medicaid expansion was a major feature of Obamacare, allowing Kasich to use federal money to provide coverage to more than 700,000 low-income Ohioans.

Like Kasich, Portman opposes the House bill.

Although Senate Republicans have yet to agree with Portman’s compromise plan, it would provide Ohio and other states with seven additional years of federal money to help pay part of the costs of expanding coverage of Medicaid, the joint federal-state program that pays health-care coverage for poor, blind and disabled.

“My goal is to ensure that those on expanded Medicaid continue to have good health care options under a new system, whether it’s under the current Medicaid structure or affordable health care options on the private market,” Portman said.

“In addition to my efforts to give governors more time and flexibility to adjust to a new system, I’m working with my colleagues to provide governors with a dedicated new funding stream to ensure those using expanded Medicaid resources to treat their addiction can continue to receive treatment as they work to get back on their feet,” Portman said.


But Portman’s plan provoked intense criticism from those who want to retain Medicaid expansion. Amanda Wurst, a spokeswoman for the Alliance for Health Care Security, said Portman “is giving Ohio families a sucker punch in the gut.”

“Taking straight from the disastrous House health care repeal, this proposal repeals Medicaid for almost 700,000 Ohioans, putting health care for seniors, people with disabilities, and children at risk,” Wurst said. “This is a sad and stunning sellout of his Ohio constituents.”

Portman objected to the House bill passed last month. He said while the “status quo” under Obamacare is “unsustainable,” the House bill “does not do enough to protect Ohio’s Medicaid-expansion population, especially those who are receiving treatment for heroin and prescription-drug abuse.”

But with only 52 votes in the Senate, Republicans have little margin for error to produce their own health-care version.

Under the House bill, people who were in the expanded program before 2020 would be grandfathered in, but those dropping out could not return, meaning the number of those people on expanded Medicaid coverage would shrink.

States could continue to provide expanded Medicaid coverage, but would have to pick up more of the costs, which could cost Ohio as much as $1.2 billion a year by 2021.

Obamacare cut the number of people without coverage by 40 percent by expanding Medicaid and providing middle-income people with tax credits to buy individual insurance policies.


Families of four earning between $34,000 and $98,400 a year can receive federal tax credits to buy individual insurance policies through the federal or state marketplaces, known as exchanges.

Obamacare allowed states to provide Medicaid coverage to families of four earning as much as $33,948 a year, which is 138 percent of the federal poverty level.
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R

royalan

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
What do you think is the first order of business if they take back control?
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Punishing everyone who enabled the Trump administration. Enshrining norms into actual law. Not even joking.

If there are no consequences for the way our government has been so thoroughly fucked, we're just inviting Republicans to fuck it harder and more efficiently the next time they take power.

Fuck "norms." Fuck the honor system. There's no honor amongst thieves. It's time to modernize our government.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
royalan said:
Punishing everyone who enabled the Trump administration. Enshrining norms into actual law. Not even joking.
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Yep. If Trump just loses normally in 4 years, he should have to answer to every illegal action he caused that was ignored as he was president.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
royalan said:
Punishing everyone who enabled the Trump administration. Enshrining norms into actual law. Not even joking.

If there are no consequences for the way our government has been so thoroughly fucked, we're just inviting Republicans to fuck it harder and more efficiently the next time they take power.

Fuck "norms." Fuck the honor system. There's no honor amongst thieves. It's time to modernize our government.
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This right here. I want the democrats leading this charge.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
NeoXChaos said:
and so how do you stop the eventual RRR setup from rolling it all back?
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You make actual changes that make it so it doesn't happen again. You double the size of the house, you make PR and DC a state, you make gerrymandering illegal, you do everything you can to make sure it can never ever happen again. Not by restricting voting, the exact opposite. You break the back of the Republican Party.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Paul Ryan's favorable ratings are virtually the same as Pelosi's. Everybody hates Congress and by extension the leadership. The impact of this will be tiny compared to Trump's approvals when it comes to how people vote in the midterms.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Sen. Lankford was on NPR this afternoon echoing Paul Ryan's dumb argument that Trump is new at this and wouldn't really understand what is and is not inappropriate in dealing with the FBI. He specifically said Trump was used to "New York politics" instead of chains of command and DC which... uh... no, he's not even used to that.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Macho Madness said:
You make actual changes that make it so it doesn't happen again. You double the size of the house, you make PR and DC a state, you make gerrymandering illegal, you do everything you can to make sure it can never ever happen again. Not by restricting voting, the exact opposite. You break the back of the Republican Party.
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You'd have to establish a standard in which states draw their federal and states maps. FF's really did not foresee map manipulation to the degree it's done now in favor of x party. I assume Supreme Court has to rule on illegality and a bill to outlaw it is impossible?

Yes please to all your other suggestions. What benefit does expanding the house offer?
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
NeoXChaos said:
You'd have to establish a standard in which states draw their federal and states maps. FF's really did not foresee map manipulation to the degree it's done now in favor of x party. I assume Supreme Court has to rule on illegality and a bill to outlaw it is impossible?

Yes please to all your other suggestions. What benefit does expanding the house offer?
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The house is an undemocratic mess, and was intended to grow with the population to keep it democratic. The fact our population has grown so significantly since the 1950s and we haven't added a single representative since is ridiculous.

I wonder why:

In 1921, Congress failed to reapportion the House membership as required by the United States Constitution. This failure to reapportion may have been politically motivated, as the newly elected Republican majority may have feared the effect such a reapportionment would have on their future electoral prospects. Then in 1929 Congress (Republican control of both houses of congress and the presidency) passed the Reapportionment Act of 1929 which capped the size of the House at 435 (the then current number). This cap has remained unchanged for more than eight decades. Three states – Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota – have populations smaller than the average for a single district.
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Sound familiar, anyone?
 
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