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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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N

neurosisxeno

Member
By next month people won't even care that Dem's are blocking it once they know what's in it. Anything that could pass the Senate won't pass the House, and vice versa. Republican's aren't trying to fix healthcare in this country, and people already got an indication of that with the first version of the AHCA. The current one is just as bad and once the CBO score comes out no Republicans in the Senate will even want to vote on it--especially those with seats at stake in 2018. Passing this through the Senate would basically doom everyone running in 2018, and that means a Democratic majority in both chambers which makes Trump incapable of passing anything he wants and he easily loses in 2020.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
obamacare-aca-facebook2-jpg.117186

obamacare-aca-facebook3-jpg.117187
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
neurosisxeno said:
By next month people won't even care that Dem's are blocking it once they know what's in it. Anything that could pass the Senate won't pass the House, and vice versa. Republican's aren't trying to fix healthcare in this country, and people already got an indication of that with the first version of the AHCA. The current one is just as bad and once the CBO score comes out no Republicans in the Senate will even want to vote on it--especially those with seats at stake in 2018. Passing this through the Senate would basically doom everyone running in 2018, and that means a Democratic majority in both chambers which makes Trump incapable of passing anything he wants and he easily loses in 2020.
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Democrats aren't even blocking it though (as obviously they don't have the numbers), you can't run on that unless you just want to live the lie (which I'm sure they will).

This version of the AHCA is worse than the first one btw, which is one of the many amazing parts.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
RDreamer said:
I think it was a play for 2018. Trump kind of previewed it in his tweet the other days when he said they need to elect more republicans to the senate in 2018 to repeal Obamacare.

They know it's dead in the senate and that's fine. If they let healthcare die without passing the House then all those House members go back into elections with no real excuse as to why they didn't repeal Obamacare even though they said they would. Now, by voting this through and sending it to the senate they can go back and say "Hey we tried!" The bill ends in the Senate and Trump can start screaming at his enemy: Schumer and the Democrats in the senate. Trump and republicans largely work best with an enemy. Now they can say the dirty Democrats blocked it, so go vote Republican so we can do something!

Even if this goes nowhere it puts House Republicans back in the same position they were in before with countless obamacare repeals that went nowhere and they knew it'd go nowhere.

Note: I don't think this is Trump doing 12 dimensional chess. I think this is house and republican strategists as a whole possibly.
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RDreamer said:
They're not counting on jack shit. They were never counting on gaining seats when they voted to repeal Obamacare the first billion times. They're counting on keeping their own seats. They were put there to try and repeal Obamacare. They tried. They can blame the dems now and wait it out. Without passing anything in the house, however, only they would have the blame. They could get hit from the right.

Hah, Robert Costa just said exactly what I was talking about on twitter, too:
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It seems hard to argue "give us more power to deal with Obamacare" when what they produced, and that has gotten so much publicity, was demonstrably worse than Obamacare in every way. If they legit wanted to make Obamacare better, they already have all the power they need. But they want to make it worse, hence why its hard for them to do this at all.

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Depends on if she can sell herself as a Hopey Changey gal, and how much opposition she gets from the Left.

I know it's early, but I am into fantasy rosters for who people think will run that will have a shot. Gabbard fucking decapitated herself a few weeks ago, so my early favorite (in terms of who I thought might have mainstream appeal) is out. I've got my money on Harris, now. I don't think people will go for Franken, Tim Kaine is a walking melatonin pill, Warren's appeal will be too narrow by then, and Bernie is going to continue to be Bernie.
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I mean the woman showed her ass months ago. I'm not sure why you thought one of the most conservative Democrats in the House with some pretty questionable foreign policy views would have mainstream appeal.
 
R

royalan

Member
I fail to see who Zuckerberg's audience is, were he to run.

He's not MySpace's "Tom". Facebook never made Zuckerberg cool. Even people in tech hate him.

And people these days hate Facebook about as much as they use it. It's definitely in the "necessary evil" stage of its life
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
Crocodile said:
It seems hard to argue "give us more power to deal with Obamacare" when what they produced, and that has gotten so much publicity, was demonstrably worse than Obamacare in every way. If they legit wanted to make Obamacare better, they already have all the power they need. But they want to make it worse, hence why its hard for them to do this at all.



I mean the woman showed her ass months ago. I'm not sure why you thought one of the most conservative Democrats in the House with some pretty questionable foreign policy views would have mainstream appeal.
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Liberal superhero Tulsi Gabbard, people were thinking she would be a major contender? Come on fam.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
RDreamer said:
They're not counting on jack shit. They were never counting on gaining seats when they voted to repeal Obamacare the first billion times. They're counting on keeping their own seats. They were put there to try and repeal Obamacare. They tried. They can blame the dems now and wait it out. Without passing anything in the house, however, only they would have the blame. They could get hit from the right.

Hah, Robert Costa just said exactly what I was talking about on twitter, too:
Click to expand...


The problem is that it's all out in the open. They're not running this in an echo chamber. they needed mainstream media coverage of it to sate Trump's ego, and that's exposed what a shitshow it is to basically everyone, and not just to elderly racists. There isn't even an echo chamber crafted version of this bill out there - just the shitty one that's on CNN and MSNBC. That's the one Fox is covering too. Sure, they're not pressing on the unfounded, unbudgeted, bye bye preexisting conditions bullshit, but because of the strategy required to feed narcissism, there's only one message and it's bad.


Even the trolls on this forum have simply defaulted back to yelling about Hillary. They are simply not talking about this bill. Or its future. Or the ramifications.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
royalan said:
I fail to see who Zuckerberg's audience is, were he to run.

He's not MySpace's "Tom". Facebook never made Zuckerberg cool. Even people in tech hate him.

And people these days hate Facebook about as much as they use it. It's definitely in the "necessary evil" stage of its life
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I'm sure he's got the money and the resources and is at least smart enough to try and find one if he does run.

Like, think about it this way. It's almost a year after people announce they are running before the votes actually come in. If Zuck actually does run; I guarantee that all the news networks will cover him non stop and make it all about him and position him as " the Democratic Trump!"

I'd prefer to avoid the fiasco and distraction him running would cause all together. Even if he falls flat in votes like Jeb! He'll be wasted air time. Perez can save us a lot of energy by telling him to run for Governor or a Senate seat somewhere or get bent
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Slizeezyc said:
Liberal superhero Tulsi Gabbard, people were thinking she would be a major contender? Come on fam.
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She's an anti-interventionist politician with military experience and pretty tv-ready speaking skills who shored up her street cred by getting off the DNC train before the Bernie wing went nuts, and she's pretty and surfs. She had all the superficial qualities to be a politician with mainstream "cool" appeal, and I don't think the average voter would give two shits about the stuff in her history that make PoliGAF despise her. I go shallow with my analysis of presidential candidates because I know so few even look beyond the shallow, especially in the general election.

The Assad gassing denial stuff, however, is something she is not going to be able to overcome.
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
She's an anti-interventionist politician with military experience and pretty tv-ready speaking skills who shored up her street cred by getting off the DNC train before the Bernie wing went nuts, and she's pretty and surfs. She had all the superficial qualities to be a politician with mainstream "cool" appeal, and I don't think the average voter would give two shits about the stuff in her history that make PoliGAF despise her. I go shallow with my analysis of presidential candidates because I know so few even look beyond the shallow, especially in the general election.

The Assad gassing denial stuff, however, is something she is not going to be able to overcome.
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Fair enough.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
I like Tammy, proud to have voted for her (although, to Kirk's credit, I suspect his weirdly racist attempt at a zinger was prob a byproduct of stroke-induced brain damage, as that really wasn't his personality when he was first elected), but she's no Barry O. I don't think she'll be able to overcome the inexperience argument after only 3 years in the Senate.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
jtb said:
Who should I donate to if I want to fund Tulsi's primary opponent?
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Likely would have to wait for some people to announce

Luckily, the Hawaii state government is almost entirely Democrats (not exaggerating), so I imagine there will be at least one person ready to take Tulsi down.

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I like Tammy, but she's no Barry O. I don't think she'll be able to overcome the inexperience argument after only 3 years in the Senate.
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+4 years in House, multiple years in Veterans Affairs, plus military service

I don't see experience as a weakness for her
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
She's an anti-interventionist politician with military experience and pretty tv-ready speaking skills who shored up her street cred by getting off the DNC train before the Bernie wing went nuts, and she's pretty and surfs. She had all the superficial qualities to be a politician with mainstream "cool" appeal, and I don't think the average voter would give two shits about the stuff in her history that make PoliGAF despise her. I go shallow with my analysis of presidential candidates because I know so few even look beyond the shallow, especially in the general election.

The Assad gassing denial stuff, however, is something she is not going to be able to overcome.
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I'm gonna be frank with you with because I know you aren't some alt-right dude pretending to be a progressive:

You need to double check some of the people outside of GAF that you talk about politics with, because the impression I'm getting is that one or more of your friends (either IRL or on social media) is/are alt-right whom claim to be progressive.

Tulsi is NOT anti-interventionist. If she were, she wouldn't have spend so many goddamn months going on Fox News to bitch about the fact that Obama doesn't use the term "Radical Islam". She is simply pro-assad and pro-russian.

And its not like she's in a Joe Manchin position where she has to represent West Virginia. She represents a D +22 district.

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I like Tammy, proud to have voted for her (although, to Kirk's credit, I suspect his weirdly racist attempt at a zinger was prob a byproduct of stroke-induced brain damage, as that really wasn't his personality when he was first elected), but she's no Barry O. I don't think she'll be able to overcome the inexperience argument after only 3 years in the Senate.
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Have you learned NOTHING from Obama and Trump? You check of the "experience" box by running an experienced, charming, old, white dude as the VP on the ticket.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
I'm sure he's got the money and the resources and is at least smart enough to try and find one if he does run.

Like, think about it this way. It's almost a year after people announce they are running before the votes actually come in. If Zuck actually does run; I guarantee that all the news networks will cover him non stop and make it all about him and position him as " the Democratic Trump!"

I'd prefer to avoid the fiasco and distraction him running would cause all together. Even if he falls flat in votes like Jeb! He'll be wasted air time. Perez can save us a lot of energy by telling him to run for Governor or a Senate seat somewhere or get bent
Click to expand...
Zuckerberg has name recognition but he's still a bland nerd. Trump knew how to make debates and speeches entertaining. There's no reason to think Zuckerberg can hold anyone's attention once he steps into the spotlight.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Tall4Life said:
Didn't she say that we should further bomb Syria?
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No but every time Assad and Putin bombed civilians she would justify it by claiming those attacks were targeting Al Qaeda.

Edit: Holy Shit she really fucking advocated for bombing Syrian civilians? I hope she gets fucking primaried and then shipped off to Russia in a goddamn basket.

chadskin said:
Imagine all the great dad jokes we'd get if Senator Whitehouse were to run in 2020.
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I actually got to meet Whitehouse last year. Really smart guy that understands both the economic benefits of clean energy as well as just how much Citizens United contributed to Republicans refusing to cooperate with Obama.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
TestOfTide said:
I'm gonna be frank with you with because I know you aren't some alt-right dude pretending to be a progressive:

You need to double check some of the people outside of GAF that you talk about politics with, because the impression I'm getting is that one or more of your friends (either IRL or on social media) is/are alt-right whom claim to be progressive.

Tulsi is NOT anti-interventionist. If she were, she wouldn't have spend so many goddamn months going on Fox News to bitch about the fact that Obama doesn't use the term "Radical Islam". She is simply pro-assad and pro-russian.

And its not like she's in a Joe Manchin position where she has to represent West Virginia. She represents a D +22 district.



Have you learned NOTHING from Obama and Trump? You check of the "experience" box by running an experienced, charming, old, white dude as the VP on the ticket.
Click to expand...

I mean my problem with Tammy is also that she's not a very engaging speaker and is going up aga8nst THE rhetorical wildcard.

And, yes, Gabbard is anti-interventionist, and ESPECIALLY so on the level of optics, which is what matters. She is super duper contra-Radical Islamism (which I counted as a likely electoral plus for her, in a general election, in terms of recapturing Obama -> Trump voters, btw), but she's opposed pretty much every US intervention abroad since she's been in public office. Whether her reasons are morally airtight is another matter, but that level of complexity would very much not matter when your opponent is Donald Trump, just the fact that he said he was against intervening in Syria, then did so, while you still wanted to stay out of it. Had she not gone full nutso with the Assad shit, I think she'd still be on a decent path to mounting a candidacy.

Edit: Jaysus at that Tweet. Take a Xanax, Tulsi. I don't think that would have hurt her, given the phrasing (there ARE legit terrorist targets in Syria), but the woman is about as hawkish on ISIS and Islamism as a Dem is gonna get.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
My definition of an anti-interventionist stance is that it means people should stay out of foreign affairs. Gabbard is actually worse in that she really wants intervention as long as someone else does it. If Russia sent tanks and troops to conquer the Middle East tomorrow she'd tweet about how it's not our business but at least maybe the Russians will kill all the Muslims, I mean terrorists.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I mean my problem with Tammy is also that she's not a very engaging speaker and is going up aga8nst THE rhetorical wildcard.

And, yes, Gabbard is anti-interventionist, and ESPECIALLY so on the level of optics, which is what matters. She is super duper contra-Radical Islamism (which I counted as a likely electoral plus for her, in a general election, in terms of recapturing Obama -> Trump voters, btw), but she's opposed pretty much every US intervention abroad since she's been in public office. Whether her reasons are morally airtight is another matter, but that level of complexity would very much not matter when your opponent is Donald Trump, just the fact that he said he was against intervening in Syria, then did so, while you still wanted to stay out of it. Had she not gone full nutso with the Assad shit, I think she'd still be on a decent path to mounting a candidacy.

Edit: Jaysus at that Tweet. Woman needs a damn Xanax.
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Her family's history of being opponents of gay rights wouldn't work in a Democratic primary in 2016 either way, IMO.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Carpe Libertatem said:
Her family's history of being rapid opponents of gay rights wouldn't work in a Democratic primary in 2016 either way, IMO.
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This is true, though she is young enough that I factored in people buying into the "my leftward journey" stuff in a way they didn't with Hilldawg, since a lot of leftists can identify with the idea of reprogramming themselves from conservative parentage.
 
J

jtb

Banned
imo, Tulsi is an anti-interventionist, while also clearly not a dove.

otoh, Bernie strikes me much more of a dove than an outright anti-interventionist
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I like Tammy, proud to have voted for her (although, to Kirk's credit, I suspect his weirdly racist attempt at a zinger was prob a byproduct of stroke-induced brain damage, as that really wasn't his personality when he was first elected), but she's no Barry O. I don't think she'll be able to overcome the inexperience argument after only 3 years in the Senate.
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She has four years in the House before though, which probably makes her more qualified than Obama was.
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
If a black man being elected led to Trump, does that mean a black woman being elected would lead to literal Hitler being elected?
 
broz0rs

broz0rs

Member
I'm from Cali, and currently there's a lot of talk about LA Mayor Eric Garcetti running for President. He has a lot of momentum going for himself. Also, for awhile now our CA Democratic Party golden child is Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, but he might just be more interested in being the successor to the governorship.
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
Wilsongt said:
So the house bill sends us back to pre-ACA conditions in terms of the preexisting condition clause?
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Um, no, probably worse in some ways considering the other ways peeps could get out of covering those with them now and the essential health benefits clauses.
 
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