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[Drkirby]

So is it basically confirmed that even if he signs the sanctions we'll have a 4AM morning shit tweetstorm about everyone in Congress?

I am expecting him to not sign the bill instead of outright vetoing it, him to bitch for the 10 day period (Maybe even just lift the sanctions during that period), then have the bill return to Congress after the 10 days, and get overridden.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

The annual military budget is 600 billion. We have the money for medicare for all and then some, the problem is figuring out how to reappropriate these funds without giving too much ammunition to the nationalist right.

Well maybe if our NATO members started paying their fair share

 

[Autodidact]

I am expecting him to not sign the bill instead of outright vetoing it, him to bitch for the 10 day period (Maybe even just lift the sanctions during that period), then have the bill return to Congress after the 10 days, and get overridden.

Doesn't the bill become law if he ignores it for ten days? The Senate will probably hold pro forma sessions like the Republicans did during Obama's tenure, so he won't be able to pocket veto.

The other parts of your post could come true, though, especially the bitching.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I mean, they ran on repealing Obamacare for eight years and arguably won control of the entire government based on doing that.

Traditionally it's considered a political disaster to spend a decade saying if you get elected you'll do a specific thing and then get elected and say "actually we're kidding, nobody can do that thing, especially not us."

It does sort of speak against the idea that people have that politicians will promise whatever and then not attempt it in office. Republicans are so committed to fulfilling their promise they're nearly willing to destroy the party and the country to do it.

 

[Wilsongt]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

It's very sad that Republicans, even some that were carried over the line on my back, do very little to protect their President.

He's very good at this.

He actually thinks Republicans rode on his coattail to victory.

 

[Aaron Strife]

He actually thinks Republicans rode on his coattail to victory.

Blunt is probably the only senator this applies to.

Burr, Rubio, Johnson, Toomey, McCain, Portman all beat his margin.

And none of those senators are even the ones waffling over healthcare! Johnson kind of is but his problems have nothing to do with the bill itself. And McCain is like, dying.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The annual military budget is 600 billion. We have the money for medicare for all and then some, the problem is figuring out how to reappropriate these funds without giving too much ammunition to the nationalist right.

Yall know I've mentioned finding uses for the military budget like Eisenhower did, but I don't think we can do it with healthcare. The VA being a complete disaster of government bureaucracy is a hurdle I'd rather dodge if possible.

 

[pigeon]

It does sort of speak against the idea that people have that politicians will promise whatever and then not attempt it in office. Republicans are so committed to fulfilling their promise they're nearly willing to destroy the party and the country to do it.

It's almost like that was always a fake idea and lots of people are fucking idiots!

 

[adamsappel]

I have Senator Snowball and the Albino Baptist Preacher. To describe contacting them as futile would be to understate matters.

When you call a congressperson or senator, can you not lie about your political affiliation? Or why do you even have to say it at all? You're a constituent who would be affected by their actions and will vote accordingly.

While true, Sanders is one of the unsung heroes behind Obamacare. He pushed for increased funding for Federal Health Community Centers which helps people that Obamacare fails. He's also one of the major proponents which gives states the options to create Single payer, public options, etc.

The law is a lot of his doing.

How much credit do you give Hillary Clinton? She spearheaded universal health care in 1993, and Bernie Sanders blamed himself for its failure (he said as a self-described Socialist he should have railed against it for not being Socialist, instead of praising it and giving talking points to the opposition).

 

[Deuce Deuce]

When you call a congressperson or senator, can you not lie about your political affiliation? Or why do you even have to say it at all? You're a constituent who would be affected by their actions and will vote accordingly.


How much credit do you give Hillary Clinton? She spearheaded universal health care in 1993, and Bernie Sanders blamed himself for its failure (he said as a self-described Socialist he should have railed against it for not being Socialist, instead of praising it and giving talking points to the opposition).

Put her down as a footnote.

She botched her effort much the same way Senate Republicans botched theirs: closed door meetings which lost the trust of the people needed to support it.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Put her down as a footnote.

She botched her effort much the same way Senate Republicans botched theirs: closed door meetings which lost the trust of the people needed to support it.

Ah ok, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Drkirby]

Doesn't the bill become law if he ignores it for ten days? The Senate will probably hold pro forma sessions like the Republicans did during Obama's tenure, so he won't be able to pocket veto.

The other parts of your post could come true, though, especially the bitching.

Yes, you are right, the 10 days thing is only for the Pocket Veto if Congress is not in session.

Are both chambers going to be in Washington the first few weeks of August? He could just Pocket Veto if the House goes home.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It's almost like that was always a fake idea and lots of people are fucking idiots!

Hey wow it is almost like that.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Next thread title pls

 

[jack_package_200]

PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| See you Spice Cowboy (Stolen from OT)
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| GAF's favorite political hivemind
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| May I beg your pardon?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Hillarycare failed and Trumpcare is struggling because they were both wildly unpopular ideas.

Hillarycare put a yearly cap on total medical spending which could have lead to some rationing of health care.

 

[Autodidact]

Next thread title pls

PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| We don't recall
A Murder of Moderate Darlings
You have to open the thread to see what's in it
Good Witch Hunting
Save the Free Court Press
Russian cars should be sanctioned
Pray for single-poster
Motion to proceed needs 60 posts
Elephant and donkey? Try turtle.
Neoliberals ten shillings one Pence

I like the last one best.

 

[RustyNails]

PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| You can practically see it from here...treason

 

[Plinko]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

It's very sad that Republicans, even some that were carried over the line on my back, do very little to protect their President.

He's very good at this.

I take it this is anger about those sanctions?

My dad also mentioned Tort reform which I know will get a bad rap around here but he also told me there's a national list that any doctor who gets sued regardless of weather they are in the wrong or not gets put on that does a lot of harm to costs. Basically it means doctors will not settle any lawsuit no matter what it is because being on the list is death. If you settle, you go on the list. So doctors who used to settle and pay out 5000 dollars instead fight the lawsuits even when they were innocent (its cheaper to settle than fight) and costs get put into hospital costs, insurance, etc. Its no longer worth it to settle even if its cheaper.

I agree with most of your post--until we see targeting of actual medical costs, anything implemented is just a band-aid.

That said, for years republicans and right-wing talking heads talked about tort reform as the savior of the system, and then a non-partisan report came out saying tort reform would reduce costs by like 2-3% maximum. They stopped talking about it for years after.

 

[sc0la]

|OT5| Blunders, dolts and ice cream (very very freightening)

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Next thread title pls

Eventually We Will Get Something Done

Come here for Council

 

[kirblar]

Hillarycare failed and Trumpcare is struggling because they were both wildly unpopular ideas.

Hillarycare put a yearly cap on total medical spending which could have lead to some rationing of health care.

HMOs are incredibly effective at reigning in costs.

People also fucking hate them.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

HMOs are incredibly effective at reigning in costs.

People also fucking hate them.

No, they are, read more recent research.

 

[skullmuffins]

|OT5| Very unfair to the President

 

[kirblar]

No, they are, read more recent research.

I've got one looking at data from 2010-12 backing the statement up- http://www.columbia.edu/~kh2214/papers/HoPakesShepard_010317_withAppendix.pdf

It must be said that "incredibly effective" is a relative term here- getting any sort of cost control here is a miracle.

 

[Deuce Deuce]

Ah ok, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/u...-collapsed-special-report.html?pagewanted=all

Illustrating the problem, Mr. Magaziner said: "We set up our communications room at the end of May, and it was basically taken over by the economic team. We got it back at the end of August."

In hindsight, people who worked for the task force say its organization and secrecy planted the seeds of trouble for the President.

The policy experts developing proposals for universal coverage, a comprehensive package of health benefits and Federal subsidies for poor people, rarely spoke to the fiscal experts. The task force deferred the discussion of costs. Experts on mental health and long-term care argued for a richer and richer package of benefits without knowing how much it would cost. Meeting, but Not Listening

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Magaziner met with many outside groups, but did not confide in them. After one such meeting, in March 1993, Dr. Quentin D. Young, chairman of Physicians for a National Health Program, which represents 6,000 doctors, said, "It was a magnificent exercise in pseudo openness."

 

[cartoon_soldier]

WTF is this poll

https://delphianalytica.org/kidrock-stabenow-michigan/

44% undecided...haha

 

[kirblar]

The reason the '93 and '17 HC pushes are failing is not "too many closed meetings"

 

[nature boy]

Next thread title pls

Adam let us down

All you need is hair and makeup

Eventually there'll be some winning

 

[Armaros]

I find it amusing that 'Throw out Obamacare' Sanders is now being labeled as one of the champions of its passage. Definitely not related to how more popular it is now compared to pre-2017.

What's next? Sanders was the linchpin of the civil rights act?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I will concede to kirblar on this one for now because I can't find the studies I remembered and may be remembering wrong.

 

[dramatis]

I am quite certain in 100 years, Bernie Sanders will be largely forgotten. He won't be "the father of single payer" as Valhelm claims, nor will he be an unsung hero like Deuce Deuce claims.

We don't remember senators from 100 years ago. I highly doubt our successors will as well.

 

[Autodidact]

I find it amusing that 'Throw out Obamacare' Sanders is now being labeled as one of the champions of its passage. Definitely not related to how more popular it is now compared to pre-2017.

What's next? Sanders was the linchpin of the civil rights act?

He marched a few times. Is that not leadership?

We don't remember senators from 100 years ago. I highly doubt our successors will as well.

Except Moderate Chase Smith, grandmother of the Moderate Darlings.

 

[Drkirby]

WTF is this poll

https://delphianalytica.org/kidrock-stabenow-michigan/

44% undecided...haha

I really don't see Kid Rock beating Robert Young in the Republican Primary. You have some pop star with even less political experience than Trump, vs the Former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court.

 

[Autodidact]

I really don't see Kid Rock beating Robert Young in the Republican Primary. You have some pop star with even less political experience than Trump, vs the Former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court.

Did we not learn anything when Moderate Delaware Darling Mike Castle, who would've been decent as far as Republican senators go, lost the primary to Christine "I'm not a witch" O'Donnell?

 

[Deuce Deuce]

I am quite certain in 100 years, Bernie Sanders will be largely forgotten. He won't be "the father of single payer" as Valhelm claims, nor will he be an unsung hero like Deuce Deuce claims.

We don't remember senators from 100 years ago. I highly doubt our successors will as well.

By definition, an unsung hero is someone who made a "substantive yet unrecognized contribution". So, he may be forgotten as you say. However, I think it's a straight forward argument that state innovation waivers provide the key to a single-payer system in the US.

A little history: Canada's Medicare program, started at the provincial level (in Saskatchewan) and was eventually adopted by the country as a whole. Some credit the provincial effort as the path to national adoption.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I am quite certain in 100 years, Bernie Sanders will be largely forgotten. He won't be "the father of single payer" as Valhelm claims, nor will he be an unsung hero like Deuce Deuce claims.

We don't remember senators from 100 years ago. I highly doubt our successors will as well.

I dunno, 100 years ago we didn't have internet. Film was in its infancy. Pop culture as we know it is still pretty new, it's hard to say what or who will actually be remembered. Senators have far more visibility now than they ever did, with social media being a big deal and always having a camera in their face whether it's a news camera crew or someone's smartphone.

Certain MN Senators are still well-known around here. Mondale, Humphrey and McCarthy's names are everywhere. I imagine Wellstone and Klobuchar will be as well (jury's still out on Franken imo who seems more polarizing even though I'd say he's great). Obviously that's home town fame, but still.

 

[timetokill]

OT5 | Eventually we will get something done

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Adam let us down

Yeah, I don't like this post at all. Adam's a good guy, not the butt of a joke.

 

[Deuce Deuce]

I find it amusing that 'Throw out Obamacare' Sanders is now being labeled as one of the champions of its passage. Definitely not related to how more popular it is now compared to pre-2017.

What's next? Sanders was the linchpin of the civil rights act?

Here's a bit of info on the importance of Federal Community Health Centers in under served communities:

http://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-b...enters-recent-growth-and-the-role-of-the-aca/

• Health centers are a core source of primary care in the U.S., particularly for Medicaid beneficiaries and uninsured people
  
• The Medicaid expansion strengthened health center finances and capacity.
  
• Health centers report increased numbers of insured patients who are unable to pay their deductibles and cost-sharing.
  
• Federal grant funding remains essential to support health centers
  
• If the ACA were repealed, ending the Medicaid expansion and the health center trust fund, health centers would be challenged to sustain their operations.

Some charts:

http://www.kff.org/report-section/c...t-growth-and-the-role-of-the-aca-issue-brief/

This is important work to a large number of people who really need it.

 

[dramatis]

By definition, an unsung hero is someone who made a "substantive yet unrecognized contribution". So, he may be forgotten as you say. However, I think it's a straight forward argument that state innovation waivers provide the key to a single-payer system in the US.

A little history: Canada's Medicare program, started at the provincial level (in Saskatchewan) and was eventually adopted by the country as a whole. Some credit the provincial effort as the path to national adoption.

No, Sanders won't be an unsung hero because he wasn't a major contributor to a possible future single payer healthcare at all (or healthcare in general, honestly).

The step-by-step progress is LBJ's Medicare/Medicaid. Even Hillarycare as a failure taught Democrats lessons that they used when they developed Obamacare, which isn't the work of Sanders.

Attributing to Sanders the title of "unsung hero" is overestimating his importance to the whole affair.

 

[Ryuuroden]

I take it this is anger about those sanctions?



I agree with most of your post--until we see targeting of actual medical costs, anything implemented is just a band-aid.

That said, for years republicans and right-wing talking heads talked about tort reform as the savior of the system, and then a non-partisan report came out saying tort reform would reduce costs by like 2-3% maximum. They stopped talking about it for years after.

Well that kind of goes into the need for a plethora of reforms being needed. Every single thing that has been brought up as an issue will only reduce costs by 2-3% so there is actually like 100 different things built into the system that all need reform. Tort reform is just one of that 100. It's more i'm saying that Dems need to realize there is going to be things that need to be changed in areas they may be more disinclined to change just like republicans need to get over the idea that its wrong to require everyone to have insurance to spread the burden. Fortunately I feel that democrats are more likely to realize this, unfortunately I think that boat has already sailed with republicans and dogma will get in the way with working with them because they will refuse to let anything that does not agree with republican dogma be entered into the conversation. Dems are still rational at this point.

Lowering prescription drug costs will help but it only helps in a single area of insurance costs. Doing that does not stop all the unnecessary tests or the billion spent on consultations because doctors are too specialized, etc. Its going to require across the board changes bigger than any tax reform in scope that has ever happened since probably 1909 or 1954. Health reform (full scope) is honestly a bigger, harder whale to work on than Tax reform will be and Tax reform is a mess.

I don't even know what you write in a reform to fix the problems of over testing and running unnecessary scans etc. I mean my dad complains that other doctors ask for 1000 dollar consults on shit as obvious as diabetic foot ulcers, Or nurse practitioners chasing white blood cell counts after a surgery. All the multitude of times my sister (OB/Gyn) has been called because the woman was bleeding from her vagina while in the hospital for something else, my sisters first question is when was her last period and that's usually the answer. Its like why didn't the nurse/doctor on call ask those simple questions before calling in a costly consult. There is no way to legislate that. My sisters comment was doctors and nurse practitioners need better training because the worst doctor who graduates is still a doctor as long as they pass the boards. These are the doctors that often end up in the rural hospitals too compounding issues there. There's a huge shortage of doctors in Internal Medicine and too many are going into specialties because its the specialties that pay the bills. One thing Ohio does is offer to pay up to 300,000 dollars of student loans if you go into Internal Medicine and work in Ohio for 3 years.

 

[whyamihere]

I do think Kid Rock could win a GOP primary and Stabenow should take him seriously.

 

[Ogodei]

|OT5| Pardon Me.

 

[Kusagari]

I fully expect Kid Rock to win the primary.

 

[Wilsongt]

|OT5| What comes first: Impeachment, Winds of Winter, Or Kingdom Hearts III?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

No, Sanders won't be an unsung hero because he wasn't a major contributor to a possible future single payer healthcare at all (or healthcare in general, honestly).

The step-by-step progress is LBJ's Medicare/Medicaid. Even Hillarycare as a failure taught Democrats lessons that they used when they developed Obamacare, which isn't the work of Sanders.

Attributing to Sanders the title of "unsung hero" is overestimating his importance to the whole affair.

This effort to downplay sanders is bizzare. Why are you so intent on pretending sanders has done nothing to make single payer possible?

 

[Tamanon]

|OT5| Pardon me, as my legislative agenda bursts into flames

 

[Autodidact]

I do think Kid Rock could win a GOP primary and Stabenow should take him seriously.

I hope the Michigan GOP will somehow try to keep him from running or at least make things as difficult as possible for him. As Ann Wagner's withdrawal in MO shows, at least some of the state GOPs have gotten a bit spooked.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

|OT5| Nothing Illegal, For Now