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PoliGAF General Election Thread of Conventions (Sarah Palin McCain VP Pick)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Frank the Great
Banned
Hasn't the phrase "one heartbeat away from the presidency" been around FOREVER?
Besides, it's a completely valid fucking point when the candidate is 72 and survived two battles with cancer.
Besides, it's a completely valid fucking point when the candidate is 72 and survived two battles with cancer.
Battlezone said:
That's what makes this pick so beautiful for Dems. Now, McCain's age is actually a very important issue that cannot be swept under the rug. Bringing that up on Obama would be a problem become it would most likely happen by unnatural causes, whereas McCain is old and has a history of health problems. It's now an issue that McCain will not be able to ignore.
A Black Falcon
Member
Choosing someone tied to the Ted Stevens Alaska Republican party and all of its massive corruption, with a corruption scandal of their own... and who's only been in office as governor for 1 1/2 years, with no significant prior experience (small-town mayor is it)? Wow.
I think that it's very clear that McCain wanted to pick Joe Lieberman, but wasn't allowed to because he's pro-choice. So they went back and tried to find someone who was a social conservative and would satisfy the religious right (good pick here then, she's a creationist, anti-abortion religious right type), yet whom they could credibly say "McCain is a maverick" with... so they chose a woman. Not one of the more prominent Republican women either, for some reason... I mean, aren't there more experienced choices than Sarah Palin in the Republican party (there are)? Maybe they just didn't want the job... whatever the reason, that was the clear reasoning.
The question is, what will it mean? Well, it means that Biden is going to almost certainly have a crushing victory in the VP debate, I'd say... someone with such a complete lack of experience just isn't going to be able to compete. And it may hurt among some in the Republican base who are anti-female and don't want to vote for a ticket with a woman on it... the question there is whether that hurt will be more or less than the probable benefit among some undecideds who go with McCain because he chose a woman (or because it reinforces their delusions that he's actually still a maverick).
Oh yeah, and her husband works for BP, and is an advocate for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And her Lieutenant Governor, Parnell, just ran for Congress (House of Representatives), running against many-term indited Republican Don Young... and Parnell seems to have lost a very close race in the primary a few days ago.
Democrats are already saying that this is the least qualified VP pick since Dan Quayle and that she may even exceed Quayle's level of inexperience... "Do you really want someone that inexperienced (and on the radical fringe culturally) a heartbeat away from the presidency with a 72-year old man in that seat?"
I do hope that the Democratic party, at least, will have no hints of attacking her for her gender... there will probably be more than enough of that from the radical right, sadly. She should be attacked for her inexperience and policy positions, not gender.
I think that it's very clear that McCain wanted to pick Joe Lieberman, but wasn't allowed to because he's pro-choice. So they went back and tried to find someone who was a social conservative and would satisfy the religious right (good pick here then, she's a creationist, anti-abortion religious right type), yet whom they could credibly say "McCain is a maverick" with... so they chose a woman. Not one of the more prominent Republican women either, for some reason... I mean, aren't there more experienced choices than Sarah Palin in the Republican party (there are)? Maybe they just didn't want the job... whatever the reason, that was the clear reasoning.
The question is, what will it mean? Well, it means that Biden is going to almost certainly have a crushing victory in the VP debate, I'd say... someone with such a complete lack of experience just isn't going to be able to compete. And it may hurt among some in the Republican base who are anti-female and don't want to vote for a ticket with a woman on it... the question there is whether that hurt will be more or less than the probable benefit among some undecideds who go with McCain because he chose a woman (or because it reinforces their delusions that he's actually still a maverick).
Oh yeah, and her husband works for BP, and is an advocate for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And her Lieutenant Governor, Parnell, just ran for Congress (House of Representatives), running against many-term indited Republican Don Young... and Parnell seems to have lost a very close race in the primary a few days ago.
Democrats are already saying that this is the least qualified VP pick since Dan Quayle and that she may even exceed Quayle's level of inexperience... "Do you really want someone that inexperienced (and on the radical fringe culturally) a heartbeat away from the presidency with a 72-year old man in that seat?"
I do hope that the Democratic party, at least, will have no hints of attacking her for her gender... there will probably be more than enough of that from the radical right, sadly. She should be attacked for her inexperience and policy positions, not gender.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
reilo said:
Not really, because now Obama is for McCain's energy plan which was initially pretty much the same as Obama's plus atomic energy and offshore drilling, both things now on the Obama platform.
StopMakingSense
Member
Tamanon said:
Yeah, it's a fantastic roundabout way to get at the McCain age issue.
slidewinder
Banned
Right. So clearly, someone in his 70s is no more likely to die soon than is someone in his 50s or 40s, all else being equal. FRAGILE AT ANY AGE.laserbeam said:
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
laserbeam said:
Man, Tim Russert would have LOVED what's going on in politics...
Frank the Great
Banned
laserbeam said:
Of course it is valid. The Vice President has to be qualified to be President under any circumstances.
Battlezone said:
I don't like the "a heartbeat away" cause it doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone explain what the original of the saying is supposed to mean cause people are using it more like "she's a non-heartbeat away" i.e. "if mccain's heart stops beating she's president".
greepoman said:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa010198.htm
Article is from 1998 and explains why presidential succession is important.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Odrion said:
Yeah it sucks but a part of me wants Mccain to win so I can see her all the time :/
Also, Barack Obama beat out the biggest female politician of our time during the primaries. Does McCain really believe that selecting an unknown like Palin would really bring Obama down a notch?
If Hillary CLINTON could not do it, what makes people think Palin would?
If Hillary CLINTON could not do it, what makes people think Palin would?
speculawyer
Member
:lollaserbeam said:
I know a kid that died of cancer at age 7 and some old people, so clearly the probability of death has no correlation to age. :lol
A Black Falcon
Member
DY_nasty said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#Public_Safety_Commissioner_dismissal
I know, not directly related to Stevens or Young, but still, they're all part of the same state party, and it's hard to see how that doesn't hurt her by association... not even mentioning her own scandal there.
PhoenixDark
Banned
A Black Falcon said:
First off any ties to Stevens are minimal at best; she ousted one of his buddies to become governor, he gave her a half hearted party line endorsement, and she has criticized him during the investigation. And honestly, I don't think the Obama camp wants to open a discussion on personal or business connections to shady characters.
There was a sense that Hillary was "bullied" during the NH debate. Biden is a tough character and I think it would be smart to be forceful in the VP debate, but aim it at the main culprit: McCain.
Her husband is not an executive at BP, he works for BP. Considering you guys have defended Obama from attacks over him getting money from oil company employees it seems hypocritical to attack her for being married to someone who is an oil company employee. Lets be fair here
I get the impression that this frenzied reaction is meant to hide fear. I was initially taken back by the pick as well, especially considering how easily McCain changed all the media attention in a fell swoop (Romney would not have been able to do that). But as I said, this will either backfire HARD or signal the point where McCain won the election imo
Battlezone said:
Well, you've got th oldest Presidential candidate in history, who is already over the median age for a dead guy, not including his numerous cancers. Anyone not worried about McCain croaking in office isn't paying attention to the statistics.
There's a pretty big difference between noticing a guy is at the edge of the statistical envelope for being alive, and hinting that someone's going to shoot the President.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Shiggie said:
haha let me clarify... They are both for alternative energy, offshore drilling, capping emissions, nuclear energy, etc. They differ on investments and grants but they both want the same kinds on energy no that Obama supports offshore drilling and atomic energy.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/09/news/economy/candidates_energy/index.htm?section=money_latest
A Black Falcon said:
I fail to see how this has anything to do with what I mentioned earlier. Seeing as how the first entry is exactly what I was talking about. Oh wait...
You're trying to point out a republican for power abuse? Would it be wrong if I laughed?
:lol
UltimaKilo said:
Obama only supports off-shore drilling if it was part of a comprehensive energy policy package. He also supports nuclear energy only if there is a safe way to enact it. He does not support any of this in the way you are making it out to be, so quit twisting his position on it.
speculawyer
Member
And that is very good . . . Alaska's GOP has been really corrupt . . . rivalling Ohio's GOP.DY_nasty said:
But this is why the Trooper-gate story kinda hurts her.
Here is one thing that I really dislike about her . . . she Vetoed a civil union rights type of bill for homosexuals. I don't think McCain, Bush, or even Cheney would do that!
reilo said:
This is where the "well Obama is inexperienced" argument doesn't fly. Obama took on the Clintons, the entrenched Dem establishment, and the PEOPLE still voted him to the nomination. That says a lot.
Palin was selected by one guy. The people had no say in if they think she's ready to lead or not until Nov. Obama's already been vetted by the american people (or at least the Dem ones).
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
reilo said:
He is going to draw in disgruntled Clintonian women who were on the fence and thinking about McCain. It also helps with women overall and rural blue-collar workers.
laserbeam said:
Of course. But let's say you're in the life insurance business - what will you charge John and what will you charge Barack?
And at any rate, I'll gladly take Biden over some dumb bitch from bumfuck nowhere who won the lottery and wound up in a position where she has no right to be due to convenience to a desperate candidate.
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