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[laserbeam]

Further proof McCain is just a party hack. He won't follow his own judgment at this point.

I wouldn't say that he simply listened to reason. Everyone on this board knows regardless of party affiliation that Lieberman would have sunk mccains chances 100%

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Oh shit.

This is NOT what I wanted to hear from Hilary.

Where's the red meat she had for Barack?

Jeezuz Hilary

This is fine. Seriously, let this news play out for now. If the move plays favorably for McCain, then start zeroing in on her questioning her credentials and calling out McCain for pulling a desperate stunt. There's no reason to go in for the kill too early, here.

 

[GDJustin]

The only upside to this pic is that it ENSURES we get a historic, progressive election:

- either a female VP
- or a black president.

So, that's kinda neat.

Spoiler

Palin is still a terrible and terrifying choice

 

[Y2Kev]

So did I. It's the smartest move he could make. I'm not sure how effective it will be though. I think the Hillary die-hards who were fans of hers because she is a woman are probably also liberals. I think come election time they won't be petty enough to vote for a female candidate, just because she's female, if she's ideologically opposed to them. At least I hope so.

After Obama's speech last night I think McCain has a whole lot of catching up to do. His VP candidate is a big deal, but I don't she'll be able to out-compete Biden in the end - he has much more experience, he's a genuine liberal, and his controversy isn't as big a deal as hers is. Plus I don't think McCain will be able to fill a stadium like that, and he certainly won't be able to talk about his loving family as much as Obama can.

I see three groups:

1. Hillary supporters (I was in this group) that immediately went to Obama in March or so after it became clear what was going to happen. Have no problem with Barack, are enthusiastic about Barack, etc.

2. Hillary supporters that held on to the bitter end. Might not have jumped over right away, but are either coming about right now or have come about. Are rational and therefore listening to Bill and Hillary.

3. Irrationals. Will not support Barack even at the behest of Bill and Hillary.

This move is clearly targeting group 3. If, at this point, these people ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY will not vote for Barack Obama, then nothing he could have done is going to change their minds. Nothing. Probably not even putting Hillary on the ticket.

Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums are both very much in love with the Palin pick. The question is how many people do Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums actually represent, and, as a side question, where are they and do they matter?

I've found that we're talking about an incredibly small but loud group of people. I just don't think this is going to be a wise pick over the long haul. Salient issues are going to come up that Palin won't be able to answer for (and shouldn't have to-- she's not Hillary Clinton and doesn't share any of her principles) and will lose support of all but the most crazy 3s.

If you supported Hillary Clinton because of what she stood for (and not just what she was) and you do not support Barack Obama (or some even more liberal candidate...lulz), you are irrational. I said the same thing when PoliGAFfers in January said, "IF HILLARY WINS I AM SUPPORTING MCCAIN!!!!" Fine, then you are not voting in your own interests.

There's no point in attracting 3s. They are crazy.

edit: How many lines is that, Charlie?

 

[adamsappel]

I don't like where they're going with this "a heartbeat away" stuff. Can you imagine the uproar around here if the McCain campaign started hinting around about something "happening" to Obama?

It's a traditional attack on the VP choice, no matter the party affiliation.

 

[pxleyes]

I wouldn't say that he simply listened to reason. Everyone on this board knows regardless of party affiliation that Lieberman would have sunk mccains chances 100%

I just find it hard to believe she was his second choice.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Can you paint me a picture about how exactly this will win the election for McCain? I am loving this pick because I feel even better about Obama's chances than I did after last night. He's got this in the bag.

Palin is very likable, and could hurt Obama's numbers with women. Democrats struggle with the male vote, especially the white male vote. The female vote has been the demographic that puts democrats in a position to win elections. I'm not saying McCain is going to magically erase the double digit deficit he has among female voters due to this selection: he doesn't need to. If he can make the loss less significant and also pull in some "Hillarycrats" who knows. All I know is that Palin should do well in small town America. Democrats making fun of the fact that she presided over a town of less than 10,000 people don't seem to get it.

Then there's another possibility: that this pick will completely undermine McCain's experience message and be seen as too much of a danger to independent voters, and even some conservatives. No one can possibly argue that she has more experience than Palin, and as this race goes on people will realize that Obama is more than ready to be president. Yes he undercut his "change" mantra by choosing a VP who has been in the senate for decades but it was a necessicary choice: another young, "new" politician would merely double down on his negatives while an older, experienced choice would tame some concerned. McCain is 72, is a cancer survivor, and spent 5 years as a POW. His health isn't great, and as such he needed someone fit to take his place just in case. This choice makes his age more of an issue than it was.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

He is going to draw in disgruntled Clintonian women who were on the fence and thinking about McCain.

This position would make sense if they weren't complete polar opposites of one another. Call me crazy, but I think people supported Clinton because of her policies, not because she's a woman.

 

[reilo]

I'm not sure it's very good since, you know, Bush and Quayle won in 88.

...running against Michael Dukakis while Bush 41 was VP to one of the most popular presidents during our time?

Plus, this pick is more like Mondale/Ferraro in 84.

 

[Mandark]

Mandark: ETA on that thread of yours?

Probably Tuesday, so I can steal a couple news cycles from the Republican convention.

 

[grandjedi6]

...for one line?

Is this a record?

It's because of his tag

 

[greepoman]

Read: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa010198.htm

1998. The "heartbeat" phrase is as old as politics itself.

Lol why do you keep linking this, of course I know about succession and the fact the phrase is old. I was just interested in the origin of the phrase, like a dictionary gives you origin of a word.

 

[VALIS]

Still it's weird. Really weird. I have this crazy sensation we will have a rare Veep resignation pre-election. PREDICTION MADE.

I had the same thought several times this afternoon. If the Dems go hard on this, they could really, really bury her. I can picture a VP debate with Biden where he walks all over her and a couple days later she resigns to due "family issues" or something and Romney comes in.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Further proof McCain is just a party hack. He won't follow his own judgment at this point.

Or a good strategist. Lieberman would make a good secretary of state!

 

[Hitokage]

Probably Tuesday, so I can steal a couple news cycles from the Republican convention.

You just don't want to watch Giuliani.

 

[pxleyes]

Or a good strategist. Lieberman would make a good secretary of state!

Guess we'll never know.

 

[The Orange]

Have you guys thought of the possibility that McCain is such a maverick, he knows only Obama can restore your country's greatness, so he's throwing the election? You heard it here first!

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

She fine then a mothafucka.

 

[Chiggs]

Palin is still a terrible and terrifying choice

Terrifying choice? Give me a break. You think she's going to somehow force Creationism into schools, that she's going to send hit squads to abortion clinics? Unbelievable.

Someone here had a good line about idealogy vs. operational circumstances. Wish I could find it but this thread is huge.

 

[vitaflo]

Palin is very likable, and could hurt Obama's numbers with women. Democrats struggle with the male vote, especially the white male vote.

Palin does not help McCain with the white male vote. Can you see some steelworker who's on the fence suddenly being like "Oh thank god, Palin!". No. Women play an important role here, but I suspect a lot of males will move to Obama now.

 

[TDG]

It's a wash for Obama to pick someone with more foreign policy experience than almost anyone in the nation?

Obama's pick was about governing. McCain's was about politics.

The claim that Joe Biden has more foreign policy experience than anyone in the nation is debateable.

Obama's pick was about politics as well. He knew that his inexperience was troubling to voters, which is why he chose someone so experienced. Obama's pick was mostly intended to balance the ticket, with the possibilty of Biden actually being president an after thought, and McCain's pick was the same way.

 

[grandjedi6]

I see three groups:

1. Hillary supporters (I was in this group) that immediately went to Obama in March or so after it became clear what was going to happen. Have no problem with Barack, are enthusiastic about Barack, etc.

2. Hillary supporters that held on to the bitter end. Might not have jumped over right away, but are either coming about right now or have come about. Are rational and therefore listening to Bill and Hillary.

3. Irrationals. Will not support Barack even at the behest of Bill and Hillary.

This move is clearly targeting group 3. If, at this point, these people ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY will not vote for Barack Obama, then nothing he could have done is going to change their minds. Nothing. Probably not even putting Hillary on the ticket.

Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums are both very much in love with the Palin pick. The question is how many people do Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums actually represent, and, as a side question, where are they and do they matter?

I've found that we're talking about an incredibly small but loud group of people. I just don't think this is going to be a wise pick over the long haul. Salient issues are going to come up that Palin won't be able to answer for (and shouldn't have to-- she's not Hillary Clinton and doesn't share any of her principles) and will lose support of all but the most crazy 3s.

If you supported Hillary Clinton because of what she stood for (and not just what she was) and you do not support Barack Obama (or some even more liberal candidate...lulz), you are irrational. I said the same thing when PoliGAFfers in January said, "IF HILLARY WINS I AM SUPPORTING MCCAIN!!!!" Fine, then you are not voting in your own interests.

There's no point in attracting 3s. They are crazy.

edit: How many lines is that, Charlie?

Probably the best summary of this. Perhaps the media's overexagration of "unity" problems actually managed to trick McCain?

 

[vitaflo]

Terrifying choice? Give me a break. You think she's going to somehow force Creationism into schools, that she's going to send hit squads to abortion clinics? Unbelievable.

She's terrifying because of the possibility of her being sworn in as Pres and having to deal with all the shit that's going on here and in the rest of the world. We would be grade A FUCKED if that happened.

 

[slidewinder]

That cop (or Public Safety Commissioner) dismissal/relocation stuff isn't going to turn into anything. That's politics as usual for anywhere, and so there's not a lot for anybody to really dig into even if they wanted to. He said, she said; nothing much was at stake. That's pretty easy to brush over.

If Palin does real damage to her ticket, it'll be because she is just not a very smart or knowledgeable person. She'll do fine if she can keep the questions in the 'personable bonehead' zone, but flounder terribly anywhere outside of it. I'm sure she's been cramming the McCain line in recent weeks, but I doubt she can handle even that as 'well' as he does.

 

[Chiggs]

Probably the best summary of this. Perhaps the media's overexagration of "unity" problems actually managed to trick McCain?

So the media is liberal? Well, that would mean Fox News is right, and that they really are the only fair and balanced network. Is this what you're saying?

 

[besada]

Ah I see... so it's basically the same as saying "she's a split second away from being president". The "heartbeat" must just be added in for the obvious connotations, even though I doubt many people are associating "heartbeat" with a time span. It definitely makes no sense if you associate the "heartbeat" an event that has to happen for her to become president since if his heart is beating he must be alive.

The single heartbeat referred to is the last one. The VP is literally a single heartbeat away.

You're one of those people who can't figure out "cake and eat it, too" aren't you?

 

[Hitokage]

Obama's pick was about politics as well. He knew that his inexperience was troubling to voters, which is why he chose someone so experienced. Obama's pick was mostly intended to balance the ticket, with the possibilty of Biden actually being president an after thought, and McCain's pick was the same way.

It probably did have a political element, but it does have real governance implications. How will Obama get his platform of Change enacted? Among other things, by using Biden.

On the other hand, what post-election benefits does McCain get from Palin?

 

[vitaflo]

The claim that Joe Biden has more foreign policy experience than anyone in the nation is debateable.

Obama's pick was about politics as well. He knew that his inexperience was troubling to voters, which is why he chose someone so experienced. Obama's pick was mostly intended to balance the ticket, with the possibilty of Biden actually being president an after thought, and McCain's pick was the same way.

I said "almost". Second, I can't believe you just turned picking someone experienced into a negative. I mean really.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Palin does not help McCain with the white male vote. Can you see some steelworker who's on the fence suddenly being like "Oh thank god, Palin!". No. Women play an important role here, but I suspect a lot of males will move to Obama now.

Her husband is a union worker just like them, so that's up in the air.

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

McCain has a very high chance of living less than 5 more years, due to his age and previous health problems. An even higher chance if he actually becomes president, due to all of the stress. If Obama wins, we will let out a collective sigh that Palin doesn't have the high possibility of becoming president. If McCain wins, America will turn into a clusterfucked shitstorm quickly.

This election is very much about VPs. Even more important for after the election than before.

I think the VP debate will be the make or break of the GOP. If Palin does well, the election will be very close. If Palin sucks, we will already know that Obama will win.

 

[avaya]

Have you guys thought of the possibility that McCain is such a maverick, he knows only Obama can restore your country's greatness, so he's throwing the election? You heard it here first!

:lol

 

[besada]

Foxnews is saying that McCain wanted Lieberman but was talked out of it by his advisers because it would unsettle the base too much.

Rove put the kibosh on it.

 

[Y2Kev]

So the media is liberal? Well, that would mean Fox News is right, and that they really are the only fair and balanced network. Is this what you're saying?

Why would this indicate the media is liberal or conservative? All it indicates to me is that the news networks want to report on drama and juice and dissent--perceived or real-- is juicy news. Page Six is some of the most popular stuff in the Post.

The single heartbeat referred to is the last one. The VP is literally a single heartbeat away.

You're one of those people who can't figure out "cake and eat it, too" aren't you?

:lol

 

[PhoenixDark]

Palin does not help McCain with the white male vote. Can you see some steelworker who's on the fence suddenly being like "Oh thank god, Palin!". No. Women play an important role here, but I suspect a lot of males will move to Obama now.

Never said she would help him there: McCain is going to win that demographic. My point was that she could help McCain lower the % loss of the female vote in November.

 

[grandjedi6]

So the media is liberal? Well, that would mean Fox News is right, and that they really are the only fair and balanced network. Is this what you're saying?

What? I have no clue what you are going on about

 

[UltimaKilo]

It probably did have a political element, but it does have real governance implications. How will Obama get his platform of Change enacted? Among other things, by using Biden.

On the other hand, what post-election benefits does McCain get from Palin?

Let's entertain this scenario: McCain wins in 2008 and 2012, Palin runs for President and wins the nomination, Hillary Clinton wins the nomination... :lol

 

[Chiggs]

On the other hand, what post-election benefits does McCain get from Palin?

Oh man, there's a joke to be made, but I just can't get my brain to work right now. Tell me, what is this elusive joke that is begging to be made! :lol

 

[DancingJesus]

I see three groups:

1. Hillary supporters (I was in this group) that immediately went to Obama in March or so after it became clear what was going to happen. Have no problem with Barack, are enthusiastic about Barack, etc.

2. Hillary supporters that held on to the bitter end. Might not have jumped over right away, but are either coming about right now or have come about. Are rational and therefore listening to Bill and Hillary.

3. Irrationals. Will not support Barack even at the behest of Bill and Hillary.

This move is clearly targeting group 3. If, at this point, these people ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY will not vote for Barack Obama, then nothing he could have done is going to change their minds. Nothing. Probably not even putting Hillary on the ticket.

Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums are both very much in love with the Palin pick. The question is how many people do Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums actually represent, and, as a side question, where are they and do they matter?

I've found that we're talking about an incredibly small but loud group of people. I just don't think this is going to be a wise pick over the long haul. Salient issues are going to come up that Palin won't be able to answer for (and shouldn't have to-- she's not Hillary Clinton and doesn't share any of her principles) and will lose support of all but the most crazy 3s.

If you supported Hillary Clinton because of what she stood for (and not just what she was) and you do not support Barack Obama (or some even more liberal candidate...lulz), you are irrational. I said the same thing when PoliGAFfers in January said, "IF HILLARY WINS I AM SUPPORTING MCCAIN!!!!" Fine, then you are not voting in your own interests.

There's no point in attracting 3s. They are crazy.

edit: How many lines is that, Charlie?

Man that doesn't make any sense... Palin's views on issues are directly opposite of Hillary, She's Pro-Life, Pro NRA, ect, these were the things Clinton was adamantly against. So by supporting her, they are going against all the values they hold true. Obama has much much more in common with Hillary.

In conclusion I fucking hate feminists.

 

[Hitokage]

Let's entertain this scenario: McCain wins in 2008 and 2012, Palin runs for President and wins the nomination, Hillary Clinton wins the nomination... :lol

I wasn't talking 2012, I'm talking administration.

Oh man, there's a joke to be made, but I just can't get my brain to work right now. Tell me, what is this elusive joke that is begging to be made! :lol

:lol

 

[vitaflo]

Her husband is a union worker just like them, so that's up in the air.

That's a bigger reach that McCain's pick of Palin.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Obama's pick was about politics as well. He knew that his inexperience was troubling to voters, which is why he chose someone so experienced. Obama's pick was mostly intended to balance the ticket, with the possibilty of Biden actually being president an after thought, and McCain's pick was the same way.

The thing is that you can actually see President Obama consulting with Biden on issues of foriegn policy (and, to some extent, things like transportation and banking) due to his experience in the matter.

Can you ever see McCain getting advice from Palin on any policy issues?

 

[grandjedi6]

Her husband is a union worker just like them, so that's up in the air.

Voters don't vote for VP let alone the VP's husband

 

[UltimaKilo]

I wasn't talking 2012, I'm talking administration.:lol

I'm aware of what you were talking about, I'm asking a different question.

 

[Chiggs]

What? I have no clue what you are going on about

You used the word "trick." As if the unity issue didn't exist, but was used as a ploy to "trick" McCain into picking Palin.

It's as ridiculous as the intentionally retarded comment I wrote.

 

[blahness]

Oh man, there's a joke to be made, but I just can't get my brain to work right now. Tell me, what is this elusive joke that is begging to be made! :lol

no one wants to fuck a mummy

 

[besada]

Palin does not help McCain with the white male vote. Can you see some steelworker who's on the fence suddenly being like "Oh thank god, Palin!". No. Women play an important role here, but I suspect a lot of males will move to Obama now.

Sexist. She's not just a woman, she's an NRA card carrying hunter who plays basketball and orders wolves killed. In short, she's a good old boy with tits, and who doesn't like that?

 

[genjiZERO]

I see three groups:

1. Hillary supporters (I was in this group) that immediately went to Obama in March or so after it became clear what was going to happen. Have no problem with Barack, are enthusiastic about Barack, etc.

2. Hillary supporters that held on to the bitter end. Might not have jumped over right away, but are either coming about right now or have come about. Are rational and therefore listening to Bill and Hillary.

3. Irrationals. Will not support Barack even at the behest of Bill and Hillary.

This move is clearly targeting group 3. If, at this point, these people ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY will not vote for Barack Obama, then nothing he could have done is going to change their minds. Nothing. Probably not even putting Hillary on the ticket.

Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums are both very much in love with the Palin pick. The question is how many people do Hillaryis44 and Hillaryforums actually represent, and, as a side question, where are they and do they matter?

I've found that we're talking about an incredibly small but loud group of people. I just don't think this is going to be a wise pick over the long haul. Salient issues are going to come up that Palin won't be able to answer for (and shouldn't have to-- she's not Hillary Clinton and doesn't share any of her principles) and will lose support of all but the most crazy 3s.

If you supported Hillary Clinton because of what she stood for (and not just what she was) and you do not support Barack Obama (or some even more liberal candidate...lulz), you are irrational. I said the same thing when PoliGAFfers in January said, "IF HILLARY WINS I AM SUPPORTING MCCAIN!!!!" Fine, then you are not voting in your own interests.

There's no point in attracting 3s. They are crazy.

edit: How many lines is that, Charlie?

I agree. I think it was targeted at them, and also social conservatives who are not so keen on McCain's lifestyle and social positions. I've never thought people should vote "against" a candidate. You shouldn't vote for one candidate because you dislike the other. You should only vote for a candidate because you agree with them and you want their policies to be enacted. I think it's OK not to vote for Obama if someone was a Hillary fan, but not to vote for McCain because someone was a Hillary fan. These people should just not vote or find a candidate they agree with.

 

[Ponn]

I think she already showed lack of leadership and initiative to keep people safe. I mean come on, she let a whole town be decimated by vampires for 30 whole days and never raised one finger to help. Imagine how she would be with terrorists??!!

 

[APF]

If there's a tactical element viv frustrated Hillary supporters with this pick, it's not to siphon them off to vote for this new opportunity. It's to sew dissolution in the ranks after a unity-focused convention.

 

[greepoman]

The whole "experience" argument is ridiculous on both sides. Didn't George Bush have lots of "experience" on paper? If anything intelligence and common sense qualify you better than the "experience" candidates have...something that GW cleary lacks.