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[Agent Icebeezy]

Am I the only one who thinks neither seem to be competent to run the country. Just looking at their voting record McCain seems to bounce all over the place and Obama seems to not want to vote on an issue. Aah well guess it will be another crappy 4 years with someone else in office.

In a lot of cases, when someone votes present, they are doing it out of disdain for a bill in that there is some language that they aren't cool with.

 

[Stoney Mason]

It fucking blows my mind how close this race is. I've never, ever seen a starker difference between these 2 parties or 2 candidates, or 2 conventions for that matter.

People vote based on demographic patterns. You just can't change 8 years of that with a flip of the switch.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Is it Monday? I just heard they said Obama would be on Olbermann, I assumed today.

I checked. It's Monday.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I checked. It's Monday.

Beaten, but here's the details:

Watch Countdown September 8, Monday, at 8 p.m. EST.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

 

[Stoney Mason]

Am I the only one who thinks neither seem to be competent to run the country. Just looking at their voting record McCain seems to bounce all over the place and Obama seems to not want to vote on an issue. Aah well guess it will be another crappy 4 years with someone else in office.

I never buy into this douche and turd sandwich mentality. I'm sure if you go back to every single election in US history there is always a large segment of people lamenting their woeful choices. It's human nature to always complain about whatever choices are presented in front of them. Most democrats were highly energized by their primaries. Perhaps less so on the republican side although the convention seems to have brought out a bit more of enthusiasm.

 

[Bulla564]

Anyone post this yet?

09/04/2008 Order Denying Motion Case Motion #3: Motion to Make Case File Confidential 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Scott Alan Richter (Petitioner); Case Motion #3 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion for Expedited Consideration of: Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Case Motion #2 0.00 0.00

Todd Palin's former business partner that allegedly had an affair with Sarah Palin filed an expidited motion to make his divorce file private and it was just denied today.

It's speculation but maybe the reason he tried to have it made confidential is because it discusses the alleged affair between him and Sarah Palin.

This is where I originally saw the story (before the motion was denied)

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/here-we-go.html

This story is just too good to be true. The Republican party and campaign would simply implode.

 

[syllogism]

Also while it's fair game to go after his present votes, you've to keep it in context: they compose only a fraction of the thousands of votes he cast in the state senate

 

[Slurpy]

People vote based on demographic patterns. You just can't change 8 years of that with a flip of the switch.

Flip of a switch? How about 8 fucking years? I mean, REALLY. I just don't understand what the hell is going on in this country. I never imaged so many people welcome having their intelligence utterly insulted by complete bullshit.

 

[reilo]

Also while it's fair game to go after his present votes, you've to keep it in context: they compose only a fraction of the thousands of votes he cast in the state senate

Then Obama should hit McCain on missing 62% of his Senate votes - more than any senator by a large margin.

Flip of a switch? How about 8 fucking years? I mean, REALLY. I just don't understand what the hell is going on in this country. I never imaged so many people welcome having their intelligence utterly insulted by complete bullshit.

Maybe their intelligence isn't so great, so they never realize they are being insulted?

 

[StopMakingSense]

This story is just too good to be true. The Republican party and campaign would simply implode.

That's only going to make the Nat. Inquirer only more aggressive with the story. Like throwing chum into the water.

 

[prodystopian]

I never buy into this douche and turd sandwich mentality. I'm sure if you go back to every single election in US history there is always a large segment of people lamenting their woeful choices. It's human nature to always complain about whatever choices are presented in front of them. Most democrats were highly energized by their primaries. Perhaps less so on the republican side although the convention seems to have brought out a bit more of enthusiasm.

So you think it is more likely that one of two candidates will represent the values of a vast majority of the population despite the broad array of problems facing the country? For me it is amazing that anyone could see one of these two as a perfect candidate.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Flip of a switch? How about 8 fucking years? I mean, REALLY. I just don't understand what the hell is going on in this country. I never imaged so many people welcome having their intelligence utterly insulted by complete bullshit.

I can't speak for other people. Of course I think the presidency has been an embarrassment of the highest magnitude but this is the same country that thought it would be cool to elect George Bush in the first place and then re-elect him. When you have a contingent that views the world in that sort of frame of mind then its not surprising this election would be close. We have a very divided society at the moment.

 

[Rugasuki]

Also while it's fair game to go after his present votes, you've to keep it in context: they compose only a fraction of the thousands of votes he cast in the state senate

Here is a good article regarding the voting present issue:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hj0INfou9GhMYE2nyalH5O9dKRUwD92UPOLG5

The attacks were making it out to look worse than it really is.

 

[Cheebs]

We have a THIRD daily tracking poll to keep track of now kids, Diego/Hotline will begin doing daily tracking polls beginning today:

http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/

 

[JCreasy]

Anyone post this yet?

09/04/2008 Order Denying Motion Case Motion #3: Motion to Make Case File Confidential 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Scott Alan Richter (Petitioner); Case Motion #3 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion for Expedited Consideration of: Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Case Motion #2 0.00 0.00

Todd Palin's former business partner that allegedly had an affair with Sarah Palin filed an expidited motion to make his divorce file private and it was just denied today.

It's speculation but maybe the reason he tried to have it made confidential is because it discusses the alleged affair between him and Sarah Palin.

This is where I originally saw the story (before the motion was denied)

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/here-we-go.html

DAMN you beat me!!! I was just going to post that!

MmmUAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

This is getting good!

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Flip of a switch? How about 8 fucking years? I mean, REALLY. I just don't understand what the hell is going on in this country. I never imaged so many people welcome having their intelligence utterly insulted by complete bullshit.

Well, why are they voting the way they are? For people entrenched in political ideology, even if you concede that the standard bearer for your team has been less than desirable, it doesn't mean you're going to convert to voting for the other guys, whose views are diametrically opposed to what you have believed in up until this point. There's a sense of loyalty and plausible deniability that allows you to think "okay, maybe Bush did suck, but that doesn't mean that the next time we won't do better."

It's not completely unlike continuing to support your local sports team even though they've been sucking it up lately.

 

[Zabka]

This story is just too good to be true. The Republican party and campaign would simply implode.

If it were true, they would find a way to explain it or just ignore it altogether. It would go something like this...

Palin: "I made a mistake and in a moment of weakness cheated on my husband"
Christian Conservative Base: "Clinton's dick!"
Palin: "Lipstick!"
CCB: "USA! USA! USA!"

 

[Stoney Mason]

So you think it is more likely that one of two candidates will represent the values of a vast majority of the population despite the broad array of problems facing the country? For me it is amazing that anyone could see one of these two as a perfect candidate.

There is no such thing as a perfect candidate. We only mythologize that their ever were. The country is very divided at the moment and the parties and candidates reflect that. I'm sure Abraham Lincoln and John C. Breckinridge were quite divided in their opinions on how to run the country just like in nearly every single election we have.

 

[speculawyer]

This story is just too good to be true. The Republican party and campaign would simply implode.

By this point you've gotta realize that nothing would make them implode. Sarah Palin could roast a baby on a spit on live TV and the true-believers would say she is doing it for God.

 

[Fatalah]

Am I the only one who thinks neither seem to be competent to run the country. Just looking at their voting record McCain seems to bounce all over the place and Obama seems to not want to vote on an issue. Aah well guess it will be another crappy 4 years with someone else in office.

You fall right into a post I made earlier today:

Point #2:
"You know what I think? We don't really have a good selection to choose from. I mean, both of them aren't too great". - My friend

This election's extra-long election cycle has effected the everyday voter's ability to distinguish the right candidate for them. How can the average American get behind a candidate when all they hear are their shortcomings? A segment of people have become indifferent toward both McCain and Obama.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

DAMN you beat me!!! I was just going to post that!

MmmUAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

This is getting good!

You guys realize this will backfire tremendously on anyone looking to discredit the McCain/Palin campaign on anything legitimate. He supporters and possibly even Independents will see it as none of anyone's business and her approval ratings will raise even higher. She'll release a statement with her husband about how they dealt with this tough time together, as a family, "not the first of our trials" and made it through to the other side.

One more domestic scandal would actually be the worst thing for the Obama campaign, ESPECIALLY as it will undoubtedly distract from TrooperGate, which is actually legitimate.

 

[speculawyer]

I can't speak for other people. Of course I think the presidency has been an embarrassment of the highest magnitude but this is the same country that thought it would be cool to elect George Bush in the first place and then re-elect him. When you have a contingent that views the world in that sort of frame of mind then its not surprising this election would be close. We have a very divided society at the moment.

But I don't understand Bush's 30% ratings though? How can people view him so negatively yet want more of the same? I still can't figure it out. Is there some massive difference between Bush & McCain that I'm not seeing?

 

[Clevinger]

If it were true, they would find a way to explain it or just ignore it altogether. It would go something like this...

Palin: "I made a mistake and in a moment of weakness cheated on my husband"
Christian Conservative Base: "Clinton's dick!"
Palin: "Lipstick!"
CCB: "USA! USA! USA!"

Sean Hannity: This woman has a baby with Down's Syndrome!

 

[CharlieDigital]

You fall right into a post I made earlier today:

I thought about this pretty heavily today and I've come to the conclusion that, all else being equal, I would vote for Obama for the simple reason that I think he understands the power of technology to improve America and he understands how to harness technology.

You can see it in his policies (check out his healthcare page) and you can see it in how he's organized his campaign. He embraces technology and understands how to leverage it and I like that.

But I don't understand Bush's 30% ratings though? How can people view him so negatively yet want more of the same? I still can't figure it out. Is there some massive difference between Bush & McCain that I'm not seeing?

John McCain is a "Mavrick" :lol didn't you get the memo?

 

[Hootie]

What's the deal with the poll numbers comparing who the American people think would do better with regards to foreign policy? How the HELL is McCain continually leading? The guy is basically Bush 2.0 when it comes to foreign policy, and now there's this whole Russia thing. Am I missing something or is the public really just stupid?

 

[Zeliard]

But I don't understand Bush's 30% ratings though? How can people view him so negatively yet want more of the same? I still can't figure it out. Is there some massive difference between Bush & McCain that I'm not seeing?

You guys realize this will backfire tremendously on anyone looking to discredit the McCain/Palin campaign on anything legitimate. He supporters and possibly even Independents will see it as none of anyone's business and her approval ratings will raise even higher. She'll release a statement with her husband about how they dealt with this tough time together, as a family, "not the first of our trials" and made it through to the other side.

One more domestic scandal would actually be the worst thing for the Obama campaign, ESPECIALLY as it will undoubtedly distract from TrooperGate, which is actually legitimate.

I don't think it would move some great amount of voters either way. I don't see it imploding the Republican Party, or backfiring at all on the Democrats. It'll simply make the McCain-Palin campaign seem even more hypocritical and ingenuous than it already is.

 

[CharlieDigital]

 

[Stoney Mason]

But I don't understand Bush's 30% ratings though? How can people view him so negatively yet want more of the same? I still can't figure it out. Is there some massive difference between Bush & McCain that I'm not seeing?

My answer would almost totally depend on the mood I'm in. If I'm in a good mood I would say people value the individual over the party. If I'm in a bad mood if it would be something along the lines of people have a never ending ability to delude themselves and not critically think. As usual the answer is probably in the middle somewhere

 

[Rugasuki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOBWZ7Jocc8&eurl=

ABC investigates Troopergate.

Also, just so everyone knows, it says at the end of the video that the investigation will present the findings on October 31st. The latest news is that the date has been moved up by 3 weeks.

 

[GhaleonEB]

We have a THIRD daily tracking poll to keep track of now kids, Diego/Hotline will begin doing daily tracking polls beginning today:

http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/

Oh boy. :lol

 

[snacknuts]

Am I missing something or is the public really just stupid?

I think we all know the answer to this question.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Read it and weep.

Link

Good stuff. One of the posts from that link:

What does it say about John McCain that he either:

A. Was OK with having a giant lime green lawn behind him during his speech -- the lawn of a mansion-like home, no less. Given the ease with which the national audience had been primed to assume that this might well be a photo of one of the McCains' many homes, this seems unlikely.

So its more likely B: he is so hands off about the messaging and craft of his own campaign that he never bothered to see what the giant picture projected behind him during the most important speech of his candidacy was going to be.

This is his full-time job, campaigning to be President. If this isn't the sort of detail he's aware of and controlling, what is he doing? What else would he delegate to incompetents, given the job of President?

Of course, the same applies to every member of his senior staff...

 

[polyh3dron]

This story is just too good to be true. The Republican party and campaign would simply implode.

Quick, get Palin on the stand so she can say "I did not have sexual relations with that man"!

 

[TDG]

Dressed in an ill-fitting suit, sporting craggy yellow teeth and pale skin, obviously from a lack of proper hygiene and overexposure to the sun, a seemingly delirious old man staggered out in front of a large crowd at a local arena and began ranting about the state of the country and the world. The obviously confused senior unleashed a torrent of harsh attacks against some imaginary foe, frightening several children as well as a nearby pregnant teenager.

Onlookers speculate the old man had possibly gone out for a stroll and forgotten where he lived, most likely some nearby assisted living facility. Traditionally, this is the kind of thing one sees on the streets of major cities, given the amount of old age homes that have been closed due to government cutbacks.

The erratic behavior continued for about 45 minutes in front of an amused Caucasian crowd too nervous to subdue him. At times, they even encouraged him with spontaneous bursts of applause, which seemed to mollify the old gentleman, as he broke out in a eerie, self-satisfied grin. Finally, several younger women came along who seemed to know him, one possibly a relative of some kind and the other most likely his nurse or health care professional, judging from her bookish demeanor and dark glasses. The women both flashed big, friendly smiles and waved to the crowd, apparently indicating that they knew the man and would take good care of him. The old man followed their lead and waved, at which point the crowd cheered and he was eventually lead away. One hopes by this time he's safely back at his home, or the home, enjoying a spirited game of checkers and a nice cup of tea to wash down his Lithium.

From 23/6

 

[Stinkles]

But I don't understand Bush's 30% ratings though? How can people view him so negatively yet want more of the same? I still can't figure it out. Is there some massive difference between Bush & McCain that I'm not seeing?

People use the same part of their brain to do this thinking that they use to say the New England Patriots suck, in spite of the fact that they obviously don't suck, by any objective measure. They can understand the stats AND hate the team viscerally at the same time.

They can even justify it. "The quarterback is an overrated pussy, and he's selfish."

The party is their favorite Team.

 

[Mercury Fred]

:lol
Did Cogent get shamed out of the thread?

 

[Stoney Mason]

:lol
Did Cogent get shamed out of the thread?

He always comes in flailing like a mad man and then retreating at the "inferior intellect" of his debaters.

 

[JCreasy]

You guys realize this will backfire tremendously on anyone looking to discredit the McCain/Palin campaign on anything legitimate. He supporters and possibly even Independents will see it as none of anyone's business and her approval ratings will raise even higher. She'll release a statement with her husband about how they dealt with this tough time together, as a family, "not the first of our trials" and made it through to the other side.

One more domestic scandal would actually be the worst thing for the Obama campaign, ESPECIALLY as it will undoubtedly distract from TrooperGate, which is actually legitimate.

Damn I hate it when you people make sense! Grr.

Well I dunno. I mean, I see how the Bristol situation could backfire. Infidelity? I don't know. I mean, let me put it like this - I'm a Christian. If if there's one thing I know about Christian people, it's that they're extraordinarily judgmental (not including myself). I think Palin cheating would ruin her with the religious conservatives.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

What's the deal with the poll numbers comparing who the American people think would do better with regards to foreign policy? How the HELL is McCain continually leading? The guy is basically Bush 2.0 when it comes to foreign policy, and now there's this whole Russia thing. Am I missing something or is the public really just stupid?

Well, in terms of marketing, the Democrats still have sort of a problem with being perceived as cowards. Sure, the Republicans might be wreckless cowboys, but at least they're not going to back down from a fight when there's trouble brewing, and there are threats to American values out there.

Yeah, Iraq may have been a huge mistake, but they're turning it around, and they won't make the same mistakes twice.

End devil's advocate mode.

 

[CharlieDigital]

:lol
Did Cogent get shamed out of the thread?

I always wonder if leftist GAFfers can actually make a difference in opening up the eyes of some of our right-wing brethren.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Damn I hate it when you people make sense! Grr.

Well I dunno. I mean, I see how the Bristol situation could backfire. Infidelity? I don't know. I mean, let me put it like this - I'm a Christian. If if there's one thing I know about Christian people, it's that they're extraordinarily judgmental (not including myself). I think Palin cheating would ruin her with the religious conservatives.

I posted this before, but I'll repost from zompist:

Interesting article by Hannah Rosin: http://www.slate.com/id/2199255/

She starts by explaining why the religious right likes Palin– didn’t another cute-pit-bull candidate, Dan Quayle, actually castigate single mothers just 16 years ago? But it turns out that evangelicals have simply adopted ’60s morality:

The rest of the 30 percent of Americans who call themselves evangelical have started to slip in their morals and now actually poll worse than the rest of America on traditional measures of upstanding behavior—they are just as likely to live together and have kids out of wedlock, and their teenage daughters lose their virginities at an earlier age than the girls of most Americans.

…The most remarkable differences between the large mass of evangelicals and the rest of Americans are in divorce statistics. Since the ’70s, evangelicals and the coastal elites have effectively switched places. Evangelicals are now far more likely to get divorced, whereas couples with four years of college education have cut their divorce rates in half.

Narrowly, it’s a lesson for lefties: don’t assume based on the public issues of the ’80s that you know how evangelicals think and behave in the ’00s. More broadly, it’s a reminder that as a religious revival broadens, it also weakens. Only a small minority of human beings can actually follow strict religious rules. If they manage to take power, the rules will be broken, though perhaps only in private.

So no, I don't think they will care as much as we think they will.

 

[Hootie]

Biden is speaking in PA on CNN right now.

 

[Hitokage]

I always wonder if leftist GAFfers can actually make a difference in opening up the eyes of some of our right-wing brethren.

Not really, especially if you don't differentiate between establishing a fact-based dialogue and convincing others to reassess their priorities. The former is tricky since some worldviews consider science to be corrupted and many adherents of the "other side" to be mislead by liberal propaganda, while the latter is just pure persuasion.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Biden is speaking in PA on CNN right now.

He's on fire.

The college education stuff doesn't get brought up enough. We need some change in that area desperately to keep up with the rest of the developing world and exceed them.

 

[gkryhewy]

I posted this before, but I'll repost from zompist:



So no, I don't think they will care as much as we think they will.

True. All they need to know is that she agrees that THE RAPTURE will happen, and soon.

 

[AndresON777]

By this point you've gotta realize that nothing would make them implode. Sarah Palin could roast a baby on a spit on live TV and the true-believers would say she is doing it for God.

Sad but true.

 

[JCreasy]

I posted this before, but I'll repost from zompist:



So no, I don't think they will care as much as we think they will.

WOW!

Color me informed.

Eessh. Thanks for that.

 

[Fatalah]

Biden is speaking in PA on CNN right now.

Is there a way to watch CNN.com video without installing the Turner plugin? Possibly a firefox .xpi extension?

 

[speculawyer]

You guys realize this will backfire tremendously on anyone looking to discredit the McCain/Palin campaign on anything legitimate. He supporters and possibly even Independents will see it as none of anyone's business and her approval ratings will raise even higher. She'll release a statement with her husband about how they dealt with this tough time together, as a family, "not the first of our trials" and made it through to the other side.

One more domestic scandal would actually be the worst thing for the Obama campaign, ESPECIALLY as it will undoubtedly distract from TrooperGate, which is actually legitimate.

As long as Obama and his surrogates stay far away from it, I can't really see it helping Palin. It would be yet another example of the 'family values' hypocrisy. We are talking about a party that ran impeachment proceedings over Clinton's dick . . . and then to turn around and nominate an unfaithful spouse?

Troopergate can be dismissed by many as partisan witchhunt . . . but infidelity by Palin can't be blamed on anyone else.

 

[thefro]

Anyone post this yet?

09/04/2008 Order Denying Motion Case Motion #3: Motion to Make Case File Confidential 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Scott Alan Richter (Petitioner); Case Motion #3 0.00 0.00
09/03/2008 Motion for Expedited Consideration of: Motion to Make Case File Confidential Attorney: Pro per (0100001) Case Motion #2 0.00 0.00

Todd Palin's former business partner that allegedly had an affair with Sarah Palin filed an expidited motion to make his divorce file private and it was just denied today.

It's speculation but maybe the reason he tried to have it made confidential is because it discusses the alleged affair between him and Sarah Palin.

This is where I originally saw the story (before the motion was denied)

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/here-we-go.html

Wow! @ the parallels with the Jack Ryan (original Republican nominee in Illinois in 2004 before Keyes) saga.

It was a divorce file that sunk Ryan. If the Enquirer gets this it's game ovah.