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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Yea, what a stupid policy to prefer.Mandark said:
Obama wants Georgia in NATO
Bill sponsored by Biden and cosponsored by Obama strongly encouraging Georgia's admittance into NATO.
Palin said the right thing concerning this question. She wants Georgia in NATO so that it can continue to collectively deter Russia from using force.
How about this:polyh3dron said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_camp_Disgusting_lies_not_worthy.html
I think he's going to come out swinging on Monday.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Juice said:Saw the http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ update just now and wentwhen I saw that it has Obama losing 266 to McCain 277 in electoral after marking Ohio light red
The only part of the post I found particularly relevant is the observation of how when you are leading (no matter how small) the media and people say everything you are doing is right and when you are losing (no matter how small) everything you are doing is wrong. GAF also falls into this trap.
PhoenixDark
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I'll believe it when I see it. Laughing at his inability to send emails and questioning his integrity and honest (seriously, John McCain?) is laughable
NetMapel said:
No, I'm careful with my language. That's not a belief. That's not, "It's murder" "No it's not" "Well, it should be!" That's you take money to kill a innocent third party that happens to be a human being, and there's words for that.
But even were one to grant you that, "Well, that's like, your opinion, man," is not the strongest rebuttal around.
In the generalities you're talking about I'd agree with you.
However, I don't support the legality of child porn or slavery, and I don't support the legality of abortion. I understand that limits the choices of those that want to procure child porn or slaves, and I just don't give a damn. "Your rights end at the tip of my nose" and all that.
polyh3dron said:
Yes, I compare living human organisms to living human organisms. Crazy, right, lolol?
Frank the Great
Banned
Why doesn't Obama just make a highly televised speech (ie. his speech on race) about lying in Presidential campaigns? He could ask the McCain camp to abstain from putting out lying ads, because he hasn't done so himself and the American people care about issues. Basically, a "call to issues" speech, to get the race focused on what matters, while drawing attention to the fact that the McCain campaign has been very misleading lately.
This will make the McCain camp look like assholes if they decline, and will stop the lying ads if they accept and force the issues back into voter's minds.
This will make the McCain camp look like assholes if they decline, and will stop the lying ads if they accept and force the issues back into voter's minds.
Two ads went on Friday. One excellent, one terrible. As I said, let's see how this goes on Monday. Obama is scaling things down a bit for the weekend due to Ike. This the fourth statement in a row directly questioning McCain's honor and calling him a liar. I want to see it amplified via commercials, Obama's stump and surrogates. If not, I'll likewise be very disappointed.PhoenixDark said:
JD: You're comparing absolute rights based on sentience to absolute rights based on potential sentience.
If you want to answer the Sorites paradox by saying a grain of sand is a mound and the rest is a matter of scale that's your business. But don't act like it's totally dispositive and that anyone who disagrees is somehow denying fundamental scientific facts.
If you want to answer the Sorites paradox by saying a grain of sand is a mound and the rest is a matter of scale that's your business. But don't act like it's totally dispositive and that anyone who disagrees is somehow denying fundamental scientific facts.
PhoenixDark
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
So you want national ads questioning jucking John McCain's honor? Obama is in no position to play ball on that thin ice
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
PhoenixDark said:
Republican Tactic #1: Take your opponents strength and turn it into a negative while co-opting it for yourself.
See also: "McCain-Palin For Change!"
If they keep hammering it with concrete examples and Mccain continues bullshitting, which he will, it'll work. You know what's a good one? On The View, when Behar called the sex-ed-to-kindergartners ad a lie, McCain said it was not though he conveniently only addressed the lipstick garbage.
There's your honesty and integrity.
laserbeam said:
That's a really disingenuous simplification. There is no unitary NATO agent, especially not in this case and Georgia's membership is very much up in the air.
I believe the Europeans (Sarkozy? Merkel?) have said (before the Russian invasion) that Georgia can't be admitted until the situations with Ossetia and Abkhazia have been resolved. There's a gulf between a simple Yes like Palin answered and a conditional one.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Its all in the phrasing.GhaleonEB said:
"WHILE John McCain once served our country with honor, he now dishonors its past and future with a campaign full of lies"
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Trakdown said:
Wow it would be awesome if the ad showed footage as him a POW with maybe some quotes from him back when he was released juxtaposed against the sleazy campaign ran against him in 2000 and then jumping to the slew of horrible lies he's told throughout the 2008 campaign culminating with that sex ed ad.
"John McCain, former POW. John McCain, current Bush politician."
But yeah, only as a last second Hail Mary.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's one thing to release a statement saying this that only makes it to Politico, it's another thing to actually verbalize it and run ads saying this.GhaleonEB said:
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
JayDubya said:
Look. You're not convincing. You just can't seem to get past the sticking point that potential sentience != actualized sentience.
Potential is far too wishy-washy when you consider just how many potentials there are. Sure, blastose has a high potential to actualise into sentience, but it also has a pretty high potential to be flushed away due to its hosts body chemistry imbalances.
I was especially disappointed by your weak strawmen when you were arguing this last time. Comparing potential sentience in blastose... to actualised, albeit temporarily inebriated sentience of an anasthetized patient? That was weak just like your case.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Still waiting on an unedited transcript of the Palin/Gibson interview not sourced to Mark Levin if anyone can find it. bumblebeetuna is still looking I guess.
polyh3dron
Banned
I'll let you know the next time I rub one out so you can condemn me for committing a holocaust.JayDubya said:
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
polyh3dron said:
Jay gets this line every time. Let's see how he answers and he better make it funny at least.
By extension JayDubya would probably have us to believe sperm and eggs are all human lives as well.
A woman ovulating ? JayDubya: OMG YOU KILLING BABYZ
A man masturbating ? JayDubya: THAT SPERM COULD HAVE GROWN TO BE A SUCCESSFUL HUMAN BEING !
A woman ovulating ? JayDubya: OMG YOU KILLING BABYZ
A man masturbating ? JayDubya: THAT SPERM COULD HAVE GROWN TO BE A SUCCESSFUL HUMAN BEING !
polyh3dron said:
Hey, go take a shower while you're at it. Or better yet, just check your computer's innards for all that dust - forensic evidence of your crimes.
Or, you could stop being disingenuous and comparing cells that comprise part of an organism with the sum total of all the cells that comprise an organism, which is also called, well, an organism. There are 10 trillion cells in the adult human body. There are obviously fewer total cells in utero.
The legion of haploid sperm cells in your splooge are not each their own unique human organism. They're just part of your own body, until you exude them, where all but an almost statistically insignificant number of them die. And just like with the superficial skin cells you slough off all the time, every day, some of your cells have died, but you remain.
Xisiqomelir
Member
AniHawk said:Gallup:
McCain's bounce is asstastic compared to our boy, both in intensity AND duration. It makes the Chicken Little act from some of you even funnier :lol
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
NetMapel said:
Nooooooooo!! Haploids, diploids, ziploids, all kinds of damn oids and shit! Gah!
If I was a heckler, I'd be yelling "Get a new line already!"
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
capslock said:
I like this commercial too that's going at McCain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LRxLQldJIs
PhoenixDark
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Honor in general seems like a rather Teflon aspect for McCain, especially when attacked by someone like Obama - lets face it, he's seen as "less patriotic" than McCain or any other major candidate.
I was thinking about Halperin last night, concerning something he said a few weeks ago. Everyone remembers laughing at him for suggesting the "how many houses do you own" strategy was a bad idea since it would open the door to Rezko assaults. That didn't happen of course but I've realized that conversation really sums up this race: Obama is on continuous defense, and can't get his offense going. So many lines of attack can be argued against due to the possible consequences, like these honor attacks for instance. McCain has shown no honor or integrity by lying about Obama, yet considering he's a very well respected/trusted politician will attacks on his honor work for a black guy who spent 20 years listening to anti-American sermons and has ties to American terrorists (blah blah blah)? That's not my analysis/opinion of it, but it's a very possible pit stop for this line of attack.
polyh3dron
Banned
I'll mix in some jizz with some menstrual blood and then flush it down the toilet then, k?JayDubya said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
laserbeam said:
Why do people get so pissed at celebrities speaking their minds? It's fucking America, they have the right to do it. If it pisses anybody off, just don't buy their CDs or movies.
They are allowed to speak their minds in this country.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Wait, I thought we reached a low point w/ vicious' comment a while back?
backbreaker65
Banned
More details from an informed reader ...devilhawk said:
That is not accurate, here is Obama's position.
There's a bit more on Georgia and Ukraine and NATO. What Obama and Biden favor is for NATO to offer these two countries accession to the "Membership Action Plan" (or MAP), a process set up in the late 1990s to help aspirant countries prepare for possible membership in the Alliance. MAP isn't a promise of membership, and the last members to join NATO were in MAP for nearly a decade. It would take at least as long for Ukraine and Georgia to become members of NATO, not least since one of the criterion for membership is that there are no territorial disputes involving the country that is requesting membership... A lot of mumbo jumbo on NATO accession procedures, this. But here's the kicker: What Palin said is that Ukraine and Georgia should become NATO members now. Not even Bush is arguing that. (He, too, favors MAP.) McCain was with Bush on this until recently and, I assume, if asked still is. Palin didn't know the distinction, and is suggesting that these countries get into NATO tomorrow. She may not realize that this is a decision that NATO members need to make collectively, all 27 of them, which won't happen, given that MAP was denied the countries just a few months ago...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/216202.php
MasterChief2829
Member
Frank the Great
Banned
Guys, just stop arguing with JayDub over this. Believing that life begins at conception isn't a right/wrong issue, it's unprovable and depends on the arguer's own concept of "life." JayDub plainly disagrees with most people, and there's no way anyone is going to change his opinion.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
polyh3dron said:
Get outta here with that BS. If McCain and Sarah are going to tell folks that they are going to run the lobbyist out of town and everybody cheers and Obama has to tell these people the truth about McCain and lobbyist.
It's that simple.
But it also keeps the media talking about how the ads have been debunked and puts more scrutiny on the McCain ad campaign. Also, I can see a brouhaha over that leading to an Obama speech about "same old" political attacks and how he'd like to change things..
Tough to tell. Most people will believe what they want to believe in the end..
Stoney Mason
Banned
Frank the Great said:
That goes for pretty much all arguments on here which is why I never tend to go down that road in the first place with certain people but that's just me.
Arguing is pointless when both sides are entreched never to change their opinions.
The Blue Jihad
Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
You really think Putin is going to give a shit about her talking up sanctions? She'll have precisely zero political weight in this scenario. "Democratic nation with democratic ideals" means absolutely nothing in this current global climate. If she's going to try to impress upon Putin and the Russian government the values of democracy...when the US has basically shitted on our Bill of Rights...she's hopelessly naive. She can tout "diplomacy" all she wants. It won't matter as long as her national policies and ideologies are slaps in the face of government balance.
"And, Charlie, youre in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors.We need to have a good relationship with them. Theyre very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor." This part of her response is absolute nonsense. The world is NOT some piss-ant suburbia. The issues you have with a next-door neighbor are making sure a tree isn't hanging over the fence. Picking up their mail when they go on vacation. House-sitting, on occasion. Play-dates for the kids. Agreeing to have their kids over for a few hours after school. She betrays her own inexperience when she tries to use suburb lingo in the context of international relations.
GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what theyre doing in Georgia?
PALIN: Well, Im giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that its in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.
Sarah Palin on Russia:
We cannot repeat the Cold War. We are thankful that, under Reagan, we won the Cold War, without a shot fired, also. Weve learned lessons from that in our relationship with Russia, previously the Soviet Union.
We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that its in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.
A few important notes here.
One, the world is not small enough for her "next-door neighbor" approach. This isn't her hometown. "We're all in this together so let's get along" in the sense she's using it is a Disney "aw shucks" small town mantra that has no place in the geopolitical arena. She's trying to treat international politics in the same way she'd deal with a next-door neighbor. "We're able to see Russia" is clear evidence of that. But the world--especially as it relates to international politics--is much bigger than her hometown.
Two, we didn't "win" the Cold War. Nobody did. It wasn't a war for anyone to win; it was a war for everyone to lose. Both sides knew that if a shot were fired, it would be the end of civilization as we knew it. It was a stare-down. There was never going to be a shot fired. Palin claiming a US victory in the Cold War with no shots fired betrays her inexperience and lack of basic historical perspective.
Three, there will never be a repeat of the Cold War, because at this point, with the world in the state it is...there would be shots fired. It wouldn't be Cold War II. It would be World War III. And that war wouldn't even be with Russia. Name-dropping the Cold War makes it seem like she knows what she's talking about. But to the informed public, it's obvious she's just regurgitating talking point lines fed to her by the campaign.
There's no confusion what the Bush Doctrine is, though. It's a foreign policy that allows the US to make a "preventative" attack against a nation that is believed to provide some sort of international threat. We can see the Bush Doctrine at work. It's the justification for the Iraq War (WMDs and links to Al Qaeda). It's going to be the justification to take announced military action against Iran (nuclear power). For Palin to be completely unaware of this is unsettling. She's an elected official. She should have been following the news.
And when Gibson explained it to her, her response was nonsensical gibberish. She didn't discuss policy details. She didn't explore how the US has used the Bush Doctrine in the War on Terror. She obviously had never even heard of the Bush Doctrine until Gibson brought it up.
No, the unedited transcript shows how she's completely unqualified for the job. She doesn't talk policy details, even when pressed for them. She has a simplistic and naive view of the world, and obviously believes it to be a mere extension of her own backyard in Wasilla. Further, in the unedited portions, she uses even more filler to pad up her replies, so she appears more knowledgeable than she really is. For example:
"these last couple of weeks it has been overwhelming to me that confirmation of the message that Americans are getting sick and tired of that self-dealing and kind of that closed door, good old boy network that has been the Washington elite."
"And, Charlie, youre in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors.We need to have a good relationship with them. Theyre very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor."
"especially with new leadership coming in on January 20, being sworn on, on either ticket,"
"be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are[...]support, in this case[...]doesnt have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War"
"in this case, were talking about Israel"
"I agree that a presidents job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America.
I know that John McCain will do that and I, as his vice president, families we are blessed with that vote of the American people and are elected to serve and are sworn in on January 20"
"And I do believe, though, that this war against extreme Islamic terrorists is the right thing. Its an unfortunate thing, because war is hell and I hate war, and, Charlie"
That kind of shit is what you'd read in a Frosh Comp 101 paper when the student has no fucking idea what they're talking about. The student includes irrelevant details and numbers (Alaska being the 49th state, January 20th inauguration, etc) and clauses and phrases like "in this case," "cognizant of what the consequences are," "be vigilant against," "very narrow maritime border," and so on. Any Composition instructor would bitchslap the student who turns in a paper filled with drivel like that.
speculawyer
Member
Amen.
POW is officially all used up at this point. All your POW honor is gone in my eyes after series of ads spouting pure unadulterated bullshit.
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