CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
He's not proposing to make it free. He's offering a tax credit in exchange for service. It's not free money in any sense.
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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
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He's not proposing to make it free. He's offering a tax credit in exchange for service. It's not free money in any sense.
Love To Love You Baby
Member
Yeah, that Biden speech from today was awesome. I like him more and more as time goes on. :lol
You really don't have to look far. The current tax credit wasn't always there. Tuition has risen despite it. Throwing more money at it is just a band-aid. We will eventually be looking at this same problem in the future again.crisdecuba said:
The GI bill is a bit different. It was enacted because a generation of-well men at that time had not been able to attend college because of the draft. The US just took the hit for it.
Furthermore, there is always the underlining issue of whether or not everyone should go to college. It isn't really a debate I want to get into but I think some of these aspects play into higher education's problems.
polyh3dron
Banned
Damn those evil European Values!!!!!!gcubed said:
[/Huckabee]
MassiveAttack
Banned
Gary Whitta said:
Biden is going to utterly decimate Palin in the debate... as if there was any doubt.
kkaabboomm
Member
see? they love each other! McCain attacking Obama for being all talk no action after Obama calls McCain the anti-maverick, and Obama calling McCain a blowhard asshole who needs to go back to Arizona in response. complete love shared all around.soul creator said:
the proceeding is a complete gross distortion of the substance of the letters in question
MassiveAttack said:
in reality, yes, in the presses minds no... she will be expected to flop, and i dont see the republicans not preparing her so she at least doesnt suck. Biden can kick all kinds of ass, but if doesnt make Palin stutter and run out of the room, the media will think she won
Son of Godzilla
Banned
wtef?soul creator said:
Senile-Gate imo.
Price Dalton
Member
reilo said:
You must not have heard the speech last night. He's going to shake things up in Washington!
MassiveAttack
Banned
gcubed said:
After watching her use her index finger to read a speech today, I'm not sure any amount of preparation is going to prevent her from being thoroughly embarrassed by Biden. If nothing else, Biden can talk and talk and talk on virtually any subject with little or no preparation.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
devilhawk said:
Ummm....you have to do a certain number of community service hours to get that money.
EDIT-
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/0...nts-relief-in-exchange-for-community-service/
speculawyer
Member
*ZING*reilo said:
CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
1) It's a tax credit. Think about the difference there.
2) Community college mostly free is all that I read in there. And you have to ask yourself, in an economy where it is increasingly difficult to get a job without a post high school education, why shouldn't we invest in a minimum level of financially attainable post high school education?
3) It's extending the med-school idea to more institutions of higher education.
I need to find more details, but I'm pretty sure it's not a "free" tax credit; it's tied to specific incentives and requirements for service by the borrower.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
soul creator said:
I may have missed something but was McCain's response totally off the mark? It seemed like a severe over-reaction to Obama politely suggesting a slightly different course of action than McCain wanted. Weird.
Just heard the Plane story on CNN.. what a fucking liar. I know it's not a massive lie, but its still a lie on 2 fronts (that she sold the plane on ebay, and that it was sold at a profit)- which she has repeated SEVERAL times, and which McCain is also repeating. I mean, the fact that she would lie about something like that, unnecessarily, isnt very encouraging in support of her character and integrity.
Also, loved that Paul Begala brought up the fact that she cut special needs funding by 62%. THIS is a whopper, as it exemplifies true hypocrisy and the fact that she's completely full of shit.
Also, loved that Paul Begala brought up the fact that she cut special needs funding by 62%. THIS is a whopper, as it exemplifies true hypocrisy and the fact that she's completely full of shit.
NullPointer
Member
MassiveAttack said:
If issues matter, yes.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
SteveMeister said:
Remember, judgment and temperament.
CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
More details on his higher education initiatives here in PDF form: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/CollegeAffordabilityFactSheet.pdf
Well first, I was referencing service as in for the armed forces. I've now read some things where he references community service. I think it is definitely an interesting idea. It, however, doesn't get to the root of the problem of education and is now just a check with a stipulation.CharlieDigital said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer's_diseasesoul creator said:
Karma said:
Umm, we already spend more on military shit than the rest of the world combined. Why on Earth would you want spend more? WTF are we fighting?
You want to cut the deficit and have enough left over for health care, education and roads? Cut military spending in half!
CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
Full 15 page specification on his education policy here: http://obama.3cdn.net/a8dfc36246b3dcc3cb_iem6bxpgh.pdf
Trust me, this guy has substance. It's not just rhetoric; a lot of thought has been put into how he's going to make his proposals reality.
You can also read his 60 page Blueprint for Change: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf
Yes, that is the first step in Obama assimilation
it's a very interesting idea that could do a lot of good for the country through charitable and volunteer work. See, you're not seeing the picture here.Addressing the issue of education is not just a single line item that can be summarized easily. It's a big puzzle of interlocking pieces which includes increased funding for science and research to create the jobs that will demand knowledge, increased focus on early education so that kids get a head start, increased emphasis on teachers and how to make the educational system work at all levels to foster a desire for learning. It's about offering affordable healthcare so for families and kids so that budgets are not strained. It's a big picture thing where many parts intertwine with other parts.
You can't look at one line item and say "Well, there you go, that's how he's going to fix education." It's a part of the big picture and a part of many pieces of his policy puzzle.
The best that anyone can do is read his Blueprint for Change to get a feel for how all the interconnected pieces come together to help get us out of this rut that we're in.
devilhawk said:
Thats what the tax credit is, I don't know why the service isn't mentioned in that PDF
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/NationalServicePlanFactSheet.pdf
CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
No, read it all. It's the big picture of how education will be reformed. The specifics of the service for money is already on record...what are you arguing anyways? That he isn't on record as stating that the $4000 tax credit would be in exchange for service? It is.
The documents outline his overall goals for the country and for education.
I'm not sure why you're so stuck up on one point when it's already been linked for you and documented.
It's like you secretly have an Obama man crush but you can't admit it to yourself :lol It's like some people will do anything they can to hate Obama....I don't get it :lol "Well yeah, he has it all typed out, but it's not in Lucida Grande!" :lol :lol :lol
ViperVisor
Member
reilo said:
Maddow is probably doing rehearsal @ MSNBC for her show like Keith is doing for Sunday Night Football on Saturday.
Watching Palin read her prepared speeches is fucking painful. Its clear she doesnt have a fucking clue about what she's reading, and is just reading the words given to her. Very sad.
Oh and :lol :lol :lol at the utter frothing rage Bay Buchanan shows whenever anyone rightful questions Palin. She never has any retort except 'but OBAMA OBAMA'.
Oh and :lol :lol :lol at the utter frothing rage Bay Buchanan shows whenever anyone rightful questions Palin. She never has any retort except 'but OBAMA OBAMA'.
Whoa, I am not arguing the point at all really. I think it is a novel idea actually. I still don;t think it is the solution and is nothing more than throwing money at the problem. There has yet to be any contention here on that point.CharlieDigital said:
Edit: Obama has a lot of nice stuff. I am liberal on the social issues, especially Stem cells and Evolution - being that I majored in biochemistry/chemistry. THe rest of the social issues I don't really care for. I am a fiscal conservative at heart. Obama is anything but.
The negatives of McCain's policies and further more the Social Conserative/Bush ideals have been well documented and are very real. I just feel that Obama isn't without his problems.
speculawyer
Member
Who flies off the handle in a letter?soul creator said:
CharlieDigital
Banned
devilhawk said:
Look man, if you still think his solution boils down to just "throwing money at the problem", then you haven't really read through his proposals.
If you want to nitpick, please read through it and tell me what you think would work better and what you think Bush has done better and/or what McCain will do better than what Obama has proposed. It's one thing to be skeptical, but it's another to be misinformed and mis-characterize his solution as just "throwing money at the problem". You're talking about a guy that graduated from Harvard Law on student loans man; not some rich kid who got a free pass through life. You're talking about a man who spent a good part of his life doing community service and involved in community activism; this isn't a guy that's just talking the talk...he's walked the walk.
Look, you can be skeptical, but at the least read through his full document and check out his stance on how to reform the educational system. Will it work? Maybe; maybe not. But tell me: who has a better idea? Do you? If so, let's hear it. Does John McCain? Where's the details as Obama has laid out? Did George Bush? What I hate is when people mis-characterize his position by a simple wave of their hand and say he's just going to "throw money at the problem"...well of course man! These things cost money! It's all about how you use the money that counts
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Senility or Dementia?soul creator said:
You decide.
ViperVisor
Member
CharlieDigital
Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
C) Both
That was actually interesting to read. Obama's plans were actually very specific and measurable, and McCains had a very broad "We should do more stuff that's good" approach.crisdecuba said:
Holy crap. Completely batshit. I mean...wtf...soul creator said:
Biden's speech was pretty good. He missed the obvious line though, "Maybe if Republican spent half as much time figuring out how to run a government if they do coming up with these attacks, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in after these last eight years."
Well, something like that, anyway.
Anyone in Obamagaf spent time volunteering for the campaign? I'm some of you have. Good experiences? I'm strongly considering taking some time off from work (unrelated reasons) and figure it could be a good way to keep busy.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
mj1108 said:
I love calling them out as the spiteful bullies that they are. Perfect fucking analogy.
polyh3dron
Banned
For 5 1/2 years he lived in a box with no letters.speculawyer said:
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That was painful to watch. If people cannot see through this... well, those who vote for McCain deserve any possible outcome.ViperVisor said:
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