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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
Ahahahahahahah, OMG

McCain said on Morning Joe that Wall St. 'broke the social contract that exists in capitalism', this is the first time I have heard of any 'social contract' in capitalism.

Then again, I am not an expert in this matter, some Poli. Sci. student want to correct me?
 
Loudninja said:

The video got taken down! WTF! I need to see this before I go to school.

capslock said:
Then again, I am not an expert in this matter, some Poli. Sci. student want to correct me?

The whole point of capitalism is that there are no "social" contracts, just ones involving capital, and that everyone acting in their own self-interest will help everyone else. Of course, there could be social contracts anywhere, but it isn't an actual part of capitalism like McCain suggested.
 

Kildace

Member
capslock said:
Ahahahahahahah, OMG

McCain said on Morning Joe that Wall St. 'broke the social contract that exists in capitalism', this is the first time I have heard of any 'social contract' in capitalism.

Then again, I am not an expert in this matter, some Poli. Sci. student want to correct me?

Capitalists are Commies confirmed!
 

-Kees-

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Weren't their polling chart pretty accurate in 2004?

Sep16.png


From Sept 16th of 2004.

Other than a Bush win, no.
 
Frank the Great said:
The video got taken down! WTF! I need to see this before I go to school.



The whole point of capitalism is that there are no "social" contracts, just ones involving capital, and that everyone acting in their own self-interest will help everyone else.


Do a youtube search for morning joe, and sort by date added. there are a few copies right now.

I can't take the time to watch, unfortunately.
 

JayDubya

Banned
jakershaker said:
You can't judge people for what they do with their lives. If someone needs an abortion they should get it. Who are you to deny them?

Yes. Yes, we can judge people for their actions. There are plenty of actions which warrant judgment, and not just judgment, but incarceration. Aggressive homicide is typically one of them.
 
Please don't get into the abortion debate with Jaydubya.

He is a radical, he is in the vast minority in this country, and he happens to be really stubborn. Respectfully agree to disagree and let it be.

I really don't want to come home later to 20 pages of attempted rationalism versus archaic ideology, with a bit of concern trolling mixed in.
 

Schlep

Member
Double post on the vid, oh well. Angry Johnny at the end of the vid. "That was a cheap shot." :lol

Over/under on "cheap shot" becoming the story of the day after economic stuff?
 

JayDubya

Banned
Let's issue a correction there, Frank: you want your camp to beat / gang up on Andyisthemoney or someone else who won't fight back / will do so poorly.
 
JayDubya said:
Let's issue a correction there, Frank: you want your camp to beat / gang up on Andyisthemoney or someone else who won't fight back / will do so poorly.

EDIT: Nevermind. You always manage to bait me, despite my efforts to avoid it.
 

Barrett2

Member
Enough with the abortion talk.

Here is a fantastic NY Times Op-Ed by conservative David Brooks:

bolded for the lazy

Why Experience Matters
By DAVID BROOKS

Philosophical debates arise at the oddest times, and in the heat of this election season, one is now rising in Republican ranks. The narrow question is this: Is Sarah Palin qualified to be vice president? Most conservatives say yes, on the grounds that something that feels so good could not possibly be wrong. But a few commentators, like George Will, Charles Krauthammer, David Frum and Ross Douthat demur, suggesting in different ways that she is unready.

The issue starts with an evaluation of Palin, but does not end there. This argument also is over what qualities the country needs in a leader and what are the ultimate sources of wisdom.

There was a time when conservatives did not argue about this. Conservatism was once a frankly elitist movement. Conservatives stood against radical egalitarianism and the destruction of rigorous standards. They stood up for classical education, hard-earned knowledge, experience and prudence. Wisdom was acquired through immersion in the best that has been thought and said.

But, especially in America, there has always been a separate, populist, strain. For those in this school, book knowledge is suspect but practical knowledge is respected. The city is corrupting and the universities are kindergartens for overeducated fools.

The elitists favor sophistication, but the common-sense folk favor simplicity. The elitists favor deliberation, but the populists favor instinct.

This populist tendency produced the term-limits movement based on the belief that time in government destroys character but contact with grass-roots America gives one grounding in real life. And now it has produced Sarah Palin.

Palin is the ultimate small-town renegade rising from the frontier to do battle with the corrupt establishment. Her followers take pride in the way she has aroused fear, hatred and panic in the minds of the liberal elite. The feminists declare that she’s not a real woman because she doesn’t hew to their rigid categories. People who’ve never been in a Wal-Mart think she is parochial because she has never summered in Tuscany.

Look at the condescension and snobbery oozing from elite quarters, her backers say. Look at the endless string of vicious, one-sided attacks in the news media. This is what elites produce. This is why regular people need to take control.

And there’s a serious argument here. In the current Weekly Standard, Steven Hayward argues that the nation’s founders wanted uncertified citizens to hold the highest offices in the land. They did not believe in a separate class of professional executives. They wanted rough and rooted people like Palin.

I would have more sympathy for this view if I hadn’t just lived through the last eight years. For if the Bush administration was anything, it was the anti-establishment attitude put into executive practice.

And the problem with this attitude is that, especially in his first term, it made Bush inept at governance. It turns out that governance, the creation and execution of policy, is hard. It requires acquired skills. Most of all, it requires prudence.


What is prudence? It is the ability to grasp the unique pattern of a specific situation. It is the ability to absorb the vast flow of information and still discern the essential current of events — the things that go together and the things that will never go together. It is the ability to engage in complex deliberations and feel which arguments have the most weight.

How is prudence acquired? Through experience. The prudent leader possesses a repertoire of events, through personal involvement or the study of history, and can apply those models to current circumstances to judge what is important and what is not, who can be persuaded and who can’t, what has worked and what hasn’t.

Experienced leaders can certainly blunder if their minds have rigidified (see: Rumsfeld, Donald), but the records of leaders without long experience and prudence is not good. As George Will pointed out, the founders used the word “experience” 91 times in the Federalist Papers. Democracy is not average people selecting average leaders. It is average people with the wisdom to select the best prepared.

Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she’d be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness.

The idea that “the people” will take on and destroy “the establishment” is a utopian fantasy that corrupted the left before it corrupted the right. Surely the response to the current crisis of authority is not to throw away standards of experience and prudence, but to select leaders who have those qualities but not the smug condescension that has so marked the reaction to the Palin
nomination in the first place.
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
JayDubya said:
Yes. Yes, we can judge people for their actions. There are plenty of actions which warrant judgment, and not just judgment, but incarceration. Aggressive homicide is typically one of them.

Don't be harsh. People should only be judged based upon how they feel and not upon what they have done. If a person that commits aggressive homicide genuinely feels sorry for their actions, then that should be the end of it.
 
JayDubya said:
Let's issue a correction there, Frank: you want your camp to beat / gang up on Andyisthemoney or someone else who won't fight back / will do so poorly.

oh i got no problem fighting back...pointless as it may be in this thread. but it is nice to have diverse opinions on this board instead of blind allegiance.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I was hoping the ad using McCain's "fundamentals" line would use Bush saying the same line; it's been a phrase of his for about a year now. Just alternate the two of them saying it in a timeline with the bad news rolling out from the start of the year (since McCain said this repeatedly earlier in the year as well).
BenjaminBirdie said:
Razz:

M: 48
O: 47

:D
Getting there. The new weightings mean any movement will come real slow. I think it will tie, at best, eventually.
 
speculawyer said:
George Bush had it right.


George H.W. Bush that is . . . it is Voo-Doo economics.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/270292.stm

I know this goes back about 10 pages, but how credible is the CATO institute? Tricke down economics couldn't have been THAT bad, besides the deficit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics#Empirical_support

According to a 1996 study[26] from the libertarian think tank Cato Institute:

On 8 of the 10 key economic variables examined, the American economy performed better during the Reagan years than during the pre- and post-Reagan years.

Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.

Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.

The only economic variable that was worse in the Reagan period than in both the pre- and post-Reagan years was the savings rate, which fell rapidly in the 1980s.

The productivity rate was higher in the pre-Reagan years but much lower in the post-Reagans years.
 

JayDubya

Banned
mre said:
Don't be harsh. People should only be judged based upon how they feel and not upon what they have done. If a person that commits aggressive homicide genuinely feels sorry for their actions, then that should be the end of it.

You're right. It's not an easy thing to commit aggressive homicide. It's a really tough call, and the emotions stick with you, you know? Really, I think the decision to commit aggressive homicide is really just a private, internal one, between client and hit man.
 
mclem said:
It'd help so much if there was an expert baseball statistician who could create such a collection of statistics, one who'd also shown an extensive interest in political statistics and methodology.

Now where oh where could we find one of those?

even obama said it on oreilly..."there are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Countdown to the first presidential debate: 10 days
Countdown to the vice presidential debate: 18 days
Countdown to the second presidential debate 21 days
Countdown to the third presidential debate: 29 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 49 days


So....close......
 

pxleyes

Banned
JayDubya said:
You're right. It's not an easy thing to commit aggressive homicide. It's a really tough call, and the emotions stick with you, you know? Really, I think the decision to commit aggressive homicide is really just a private, internal one, between client and hit man.
rolleyes.gif
 

pxleyes

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Countdown to the first presidential debate: 10 days
Countdown to the vice presidential debate: 18 days
Countdown to the second presidential debate 21 days
Countdown to the third presidential debate: 29 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 49 days


So....close......
So are they sticking with foreign policy for the first one or are they switching it up with the economy given its current state?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
pxleyes said:
So are they sticking with foreign policy for the first one or are they switching it up with the economy given its current state?
First is still foreign policy. I actually think that's a good thing - the last debate is one week before the election, it's focused on domestic policy and that's Obama's strength. Leave the best final impression. Though I think he'll make inroads on McCain's foreign turf.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Countdown to the first presidential debate: 10 days
Countdown to the vice presidential debate: 18 days
Countdown to the second presidential debate 21 days
Countdown to the third presidential debate: 29 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 49 days


So....close......

I'm sick of the election and want this crap to end already. I can't stand all the immature bickering and stupidity of politics. If I could make it end today with the caveat of a McCain win, I'd do it in a second.
 

Cheebs

Member
pxleyes said:
So are they sticking with foreign policy for the first one or are they switching it up with the economy given its current state?
Foreign policy. It was originally going to be the economy but it got switched to foreign policy.
 
OK, she's seriously a pathological liar:

Palin and the Teleprompter

September 15, 2008 8:42 PM

At a fundraiser in Canton, Ohio, this evening, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin had an interesting description of her speech to the Republican convention.

“There Ohio was right out in front, right in front of me," Palin said. "The teleprompter got messed up, I couldn’t follow it, and I just decided I’d just talk to the people in front of me. It was Ohio.”

This struck many of us -- who, as she spoke, followed along with her prepared remarks, and noted how closely she stuck to the script -- as an unusual claim. (Especially those of my colleagues on the convention floor at the time, reading along on the prompter with her, noticing her excellent and disciplined delivery, how she punched words that were underlined and paused where it said "pause," noting that "nuclear" was spelled out for her phonetically.)

Please note: few people who work on TV will ever bad-mouth a teleprompter. And Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., works with a prompter not infrequently.

But it's different to use one, and to use one but imply that you weren't.

Was Palin doing that tonight?

McCain-Palin campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds says no, and disputes any notion that Palin was implying that she ad-libbed the speech by saying she "couldn't follow it" on the teleprompter, so she "just decided I’d just talk to the people in front of me."

McCain-Palin spokeswoman Jill Hazelbaker says, "She was off the prompter at points."

Bounds says anyone who thinks Palin was implying that her speech was ad-libbed is unfairly reading into her remarks. Whether she was reading the speech or had it memorized, she delivered it and delivered it well, he says.

I should note that, after Palin's speech, some conservative bloggers reported that sources close to McCain had told them that the teleprompter had broken and Palin "winged it."

"The teleprompter did not break," wrote Politico's Jonathan Martin. "Sarah Palin delivered a powerful speech last night, but she did not 'wing it'..."

Says Martin, "Perhaps there were moments where it scrolled slightly past her exact point in the speech. But I was sitting in the press section next to the stage, within easy eyeshot of the teleprompter. I frequently looked up at the machine, and there was no serious malfunction. A top convention planner confirms this morning that there were no major problems."
 

Cheebs

Member
lawblob said:
Do we know who is moderating the debates?
Yes. First one is Jim Lehrer of PBS, second is Tom Brokaw of NBC although he asks no questions (the second debate is all questions from the audience), and the third is Bob Schieffer of CBS.

VP debate is Gwen Iffel of PBS.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
lawblob said:
Do we know who is moderating the debates?
Quick google result:

FIRST DEBATE
Presidential debate
Date: Friday, September 26, 2008
Debate focus: Foreign Policy & National Security
Moderator: Jim Lehrer of PBS will ask the question
Format: Standing at podiums

Location: University of Mississippi
Oxford, Mississippi

SECOND DEBATE
Vice Presidential debate
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008
Debate focus: Domestic and foreign policies

Location: Washington University
St. Louis, Missouri

THIRD DEBATE
Presidential debate
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008
Debate focus: Issues posed over internet and by audience members
Moderator: Tom Brokaw of NBC News
Format: Town Hall style

Location: Belmont University
Nashville, Tennessee

FOURTH DEBATE
Presidential debate
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Debate focus: Domestic and Economic Policies
Moderator: Bob Schieffer of CBS News
Format: Sitting at a table
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
I know this goes back about 10 pages, but how credible is the CATO institute? Tricke down economics couldn't have been THAT bad, besides the deficit.

CATO is more credible than the Heritage Foundation but they are still ideologues.

Even if you believe in the voodoo there's still the whole question of which side of the Laffer Curve you are on. Many conservatives like to pretend that we are always on the right side, but that's nonsense. It's a curve, not an arc.
 
capslock said:
Ahahahahahahah, OMG

McCain said on Morning Joe that Wall St. 'broke the social contract that exists in capitalism', this is the first time I have heard of any 'social contract' in capitalism.

Then again, I am not an expert in this matter, some Poli. Sci. student want to correct me?

maybe by social contract he is talking about our rising costs in entitlement programs. many of which are going to require a huge increase in taxes to pay for at their current rate, or some other type of solution. Now for the few of you are gonna come back and say andy wants to take away your dying grandparents social security, i don't. but i think we all can agree government spending in many areas need to be greatly reduced and reorganized. Cause im tired of my governments deficit growing, my dollar weakening, and my tax burden being increased. (yeak i know "but it increased so much under bush a republican!!!!)
 

Cheebs

Member
AndyIsTheMoney said:
yeah, i defend a man on what i think he has done right, and criticize him on what i think he has done wrong. how crazy of me
The only thing he has done right is his AIDS work for Africa. There is not one other single thing a logical person can say he did well other than that.

His foreign policy was a disaster (Afghan. war still not solved and bin laden escaped, everyone knows about how great iraq was, europe hates us more than ever), his economic policy was a disaster (entering a horrible recession and his tax cuts were complete shit), his education policy was a flop (no child left behind), his social security reform was a disaster, he has done absolutely nothing about the energy crisis other than help big oil get bigger, he ignored the environmental problems of global warming, and he packed the supreme court with right-wing wackos, not to mention his incompetence in katrina.


Name me one other thing other than Africa that he did right. I can't think of one. Nixon did a hell of a lot more good than Bush even (Nixon's decently strong environmental push & working with china alone are better than the one decent thing Bush did)
 

Barrett2

Member
AndyIsTheMoney said:
maybe by social contract he is talking about our rising costs in entitlement programs. many of which are going to require a huge increase in taxes to pay for at their current rate, or some other type of solution. Now for the few of you are gonna come back and say andy wants to take away your dying grandparents social security, i don't. but i think we all can agree government spending in many areas need to be greatly reduced and reorganized. Cause im tired of my governments deficit growing, my dollar weakening, and my tax burden being increased. (yeak i know "but it increased so much under bush a republican!!!!)


What the fuck do investment banks becoming overly leveraged in the sub-prime market have to do with entitlement programs?
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
JayDubya said:
You're right. It's not an easy thing to commit aggressive homicide. It's a really tough call, and the emotions stick with you, you know? Really, I think the decision to commit aggressive homicide is really just a private, internal one, between client and hit man.

You've hit it right on the head. I think the key question in a trial should be whether society can punish a person more than that person is already punishing themself. If that person is truly remorseful, then the internal conflict and turmoil they are already suffering from is punishment enough, and sentencing them to incarceration would constitute cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Constitution.
 
scorcho said:
drudge must feel inspired today.

Drudge is no friend of Obama. During the primaries it was obvious that he just despised Obama a bit less than Hilary. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all of that...

I like how the media takes notice of Obama's fundraising with celebs while McCain does fundraising with big money/shady individuals and it gets no coverage. That darn librul media at work again.,
 
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