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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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WELL....welll......welll....


MCCAIN CAMP ACCUSES OBAMA OF PRESSURING CLINTON

John McCain’s campaign seemed to accuse Barack Obama of pressuring Hillary Clinton to withdraw from appearing at a rally with Sarah Palin, and pushing the group to disinvite the Alaska governor – but did not provide reporters any evidence to back up the claim.

Late Tuesday, an organizer of the September 22 “Stop Iran. Now!” rally announced that Clinton, Palin and Nobel Laureate Elie Wiesel would be appearing at the event. Hours later, Clinton’s office announced that had changed her decision, and would not attend.

“Earlier this week Governor Palin accepted an invitation to join Hillary Clinton in speaking to a nonpartisan rally organized by groups dedicated to halting Iran's nuclear program,” said McCain-Palin spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a statement. “Senator Clinton has since withdrawn from the engagement, presumably at the behest of the Obama campaign, and according to news reports, Senator Obama's campaign may be leaning on organizers to disinvite Governor Palin as well lest the rally appear partisan.”

But the Politico story cited by Goldfarb in an e-mail sent to reporters does not include any sources making that charge. One anonymous source – who is identified only as someone “familiar with the talks” – seems to reference debate among organizers over whether or not an Obama-Biden representative was needed if Palin attended the rally in New York over Iran’s nuclear program, to avoid the appearance of partisan politics. It does not mention any request of this kind coming from anyone connected to the Obama-Biden campaign, including Senator Obama himself.

“This issue is too important to fall victim to partisan politics,” Goldfarb also wrote. “Instead of pressuring Senator Clinton to withdraw and pressuring the event's organizers to disinvite Governor Palin, we hope Senator Obama will consider lending his own voice to this cause….”

There has been no mainstream media report or public claim by anyone in Clinton’s camp that she received any pressure from the Obama campaign not to appear at the rally, as Goldfarb implies. Clinton spokesman Philippe Reines said early Wednesday that Palin’s presence at the event and the appearance of partisan politics was the reason for Clinton’s withdrawal.

"Her attendance was news to us, and this was never billed to us as a partisan political event,” said Reines. “Senator Clinton will therefore not be attending."

The McCain campaign has not yet responded to a CNN request for the source of the apparent allegations.


if Hillary was holding her guns because of her hate for Obama , its over now


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/17/mccain-camp-accuses-obama-of-pressuring-clinton/
 

Tamanon

Banned
thekad said:
I'm probably late with this, but:

I am honestly clueless as to where McCain stands on regulation. I realize a 26 year career in Congress will sometimes produce a schizophrenic voting record, but just in the last decade he has fought much-needed oversight of the financial sector while co-sponsoring a bill that would regulate the mortgage giants. And just this year, he said "I am always against more regulation," or something to that effect and now it's central to his generic economic plan.

I think we can scrap the saying that "John McCain is the first presidential candidate to oppose two bills with his name on them" and replace it with "John McCain is the first presidential candidate to change entire economic philosophies within the course of one campaign."

He's still firmly anti-regulation. But you can't be anti-regulation in an election cycle where deregulation is widely recognized as causing the current fall.
 
Hitokage said:
That's just below where the DOW was when Bush came into office.

mission-accomplished.jpg
 
Xisiqomelir said:
So, you want to kind of just throw it out there and see if it sticks? And when it bombs (btw, it will bomb), let the next administration undo the mess?

What happens if we go UHC and it goes tits up like Social Security? Who gets to undo that mess? Oh right...nobody, we can just raise taxes to fix that.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Palin on AIG, from scorcho's link:

“Dissapointed that taxpayers are called upon to bailout another one,” she said. “Certainly AIG though with the construction bonds that they’re holding and with the insurance that they are holding very, very impactful to Americans so you know the shot that has been called by the Feds its understandable but very, very disappointing that taxpayers are called upon for another one.”

Well, at least she's talking.
 

Tamanon

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
What happens if we go UHC and it goes tits up like Social Security? Who gets to undo that mess? Oh right...nobody, we can just raise taxes to fix that.

Um....Social Security is fine if left on its own.

bob: I'm not entirely sure she knows what she's saying in that sentence.:p
 
scorcho said:

Sarah Palin said:
“Certainly AIG though with the construction bonds that they’re holding and with the insurance that they are holding very, very impactful to Americans so you know the shot that has been called by the Feds its understandable but very, very disappointing that taxpayers are called upon for another one.”

What the fuck does this even mean? AIG is an insurance broker. Where the hell does she get "construction bonds" from? Does AIG even do construction bonds?
 
thekad said:
I'm probably late with this, but:

I am honestly clueless as to where McCain stands on regulation. I realize a 26 year career in Congress will sometimes produce a schizophrenic voting record, but just in the last decade he has fought much-needed oversight of the financial sector while co-sponsoring a bill that would regulate the mortgage giants. And just this year, he said "I am always against more regulation," or something to that effect and now it's central to his generic economic plan.

I think we can scrap the saying that "John McCain is the first presidential candidate to oppose two bills with his name on them" and replace it with "John McCain is the first presidential candidate to change entire economic philosophies within the course of one campaign."

It's quite impressive, isn't it?
 
Tamanon said:
Um....Social Security is fine if left on its own.

bob: I'm not entirely sure she knows what she's saying in that sentence.:p

Sure, when they keep raising the retirement age, and not give seniors a big enough check to live off.

I really don't know, but it's one of those talking point things..."SS is broken".
 
PrivateWHudson said:
What happens if we go UHC and it goes tits up like Social Security? Who gets to undo that mess? Oh right...nobody, we can just raise taxes to fix that.
Or we could privately invest SS and instead of it just not paying 100% 50 years from now, we could privatize so that it would be in the shitter right now meaning we'd have to confront it. That's ASSERTIVENESS!!
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Sure, when they keep raising the retirement age, and not give seniors a big enough check to live off.

Raising the retirement age -- to a degree -- makes perfect sense given that life expectancy has increased over time and will continue to increase.

Not big enough a check to live off of? Well, now, aren't you being sympathetic. So which is it? Do we need to give seniors enough to live off of or do we need to get rid of Social Security?
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
The Blue Jihad said:
What the fuck does this even mean? AIG is an insurance broker. Where the hell does she get "construction bonds" from? Does AIG even do construction bonds?
in Palin's defense, she doesn't have fluency in many topics - national security, economics, energy, health care, infrastructure, education, etc. so give her some flack for not knowing the specifics of AIG - hell, even i don't. i'm just thankful that she used stern language like 'understandable' and 'disappointment' to convey her grasp of the gravity of the situation.

let's all just count our blessings that she isn't running for President.
 
CharlieDigital said:
Raising the retirement age -- to a degree -- makes perfect sense given that life expectancy has increased over time and will continue to increase.

Not big enough a check to live off of? Well, now, aren't you being sympathetic. So which is it? Do we need to give seniors enough to live off of or do we need to get rid of Social Security?

But our Healthcare sucks? How can this be happening?

They paid for it. It's not sympathetic to give them their own money back.
 

Tamanon

Banned
http://www.dmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod...s&tier=3&gid=B33A5C6E2CF04C9596A3EF81822D9F8E

Good read from a former editor of National Review.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world “safe for democracy.” It is John McCain who says America’s job is to “defeat evil,” a theological expansion of the nation’s mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

Old-school conservatism to be sure.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
But our Healthcare sucks? How can this be happening?

The system sucks, not the procedures, technologies, techniques, and the medicine; we've continually made strides in those areas. Aside from that, lifespan is related to factors other than healthcare including diet, environment, and work. In each generation, we've seen an improvement in each of those areas.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, healthcare costs have increased over the past decade -- it's not as if the increase in lifespan has come for free -- (and will continue to do so) unless we take serious measures to fix the system.

They paid for it. It's not sympathetic to give them their own money back.

So what's the problem then? I don't understand. Likewise, our tax dollars will pay for socialized healthcare. You wouldn't be sympathetic, you'd be getting your own money back. (If that's how you want to present your point...)
 

vangace

Member
Cheebs said:
New CNN numbers:
Florida: Obama 48, McCain 48
Indiana: McCain 51, Obama 45
North Carolina: McCain 48, Obama 47
Ohio: Obama 49, McCain 47
Wisconsin: Obama 50, McCain 47


Great news all around, other than Wisconsin being oddly close

North Carolina might be coming back into play; nice:D
 

Amir0x

Banned
artredis1980 said:
WELL....welll......welll....


MCCAIN CAMP ACCUSES OBAMA OF PRESSURING CLINTON

Thank GOD. This is exactly the sort of thing Obama needs to pressure Hillary on. It doesn't matter what the fuck the event was about, McCain would immediately air an ad a day later with Hillary and Palin on the same stage or with a photo together saying "we all know why the glass ceiling wasn't shattered that day. Barack Obama doesn't care about you."
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
vangace said:
North Carolina might be coming back into play; nice:D
I think I'd run through the streets laughing and screaming if both Virginia and North Carolina get called for Obama on election night.

McCain would have to flip both Michigan and Pennsylvania from the Kerry/IA/NM lineup to win if that happened.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Sure, when they keep raising the retirement age, and not give seniors a big enough check to live off.

I really don't know, but it's one of those talking point things..."SS is broken".
SS is indeed somewhat broken.

However . . . could imagine what things would be like right now if Bush's insanely flawed attempt to privatize SS had succeeded? His plan boiled down to borrowing a ton of money to invest in the stock market to fund these new 'private' retirement accounts. . . . basically, going out on margin to fund a retirement program. Basically, those new 'retirement accounts' would now be worth less than the amount borrowed to created them! :lol What a great start!
 
Hitokage said:
I think I'd run through the streets laughing and screaming if both Virginia and North Carolina get called for Obama on election night.

McCain would have to flip both Michigan and Pennsylvania from the Kerry/IA/NM lineup to win if that happened.

How about you make me a mod instead
 
PrivateWHudson said:
But our Healthcare sucks? How can this be happening?
Lifespans are going up in all western industrialized countries. In America, healthcare costs are going up at a ridiculous rate due to the policies of the Republicans. What do you not understand?
 

Wolffen

Member
Hitokage said:
I think I'd run through the streets laughing and screaming if both Virginia and North Carolina get called for Obama on election night.

If NC goes blue on Nov 4th, it will give me hope that SC will finally go blue in 2012.
 
mamacint said:
Lifespans are going up in all western industrialized countries. In America, healthcare costs are going up at a ridiculous rate due to the policies of the Republicans. What do you not understand?

He's drowning in a sea of Hope and he's grasping at straws to stay in the world of despair.
 

Fatalah

Member
Since the thread is slow right now (for 5 minutes or so)...

Here are your top PoliGAF posters to date!
Code:
[B]User Name  	       Posts
[/B]AniHawk              588
Tamanon              504
GhaleonEB              489
polyh3dron              382
speculawyer             358
Stoney Mason              290              
CharlieDigital              269
The Lamonster              262
Hitokage              246
reilo              237
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Hitokage said:
I think I'd run through the streets laughing and screaming if both Virginia and North Carolina get called for Obama on election night.

McCain would have to flip both Michigan and Pennsylvania from the Kerry/IA/NM lineup to win if that happened.
And if NC goes blue, there's no way on earth PA goes red.
 
CharlieDigital said:
The system sucks, not the procedures, technologies, techniques, and the medicine; we've continually made strides in those areas. Aside from that, lifespan is related to factors other than healthcare including diet, environment, and work. In each generation, we've seen an improvement in each of those areas.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, healthcare costs have increased over the past decade (and will continue to do so) unless we take serious measures to fix the system.



So what's the problem then? I don't understand. Likewise, our tax dollars will pay for socialized healthcare. You wouldn't be sympathetic, you'd be getting your own money back. (If that's how you want to present your point...)

so where will investment spending come from for research and development in the medical field if/when we socialize? Profits wont be much of an issue, so im guessing from our national budget. How will that compare to current research costs?

By the way, getting our dollars back isn't necessary true. Ive purposely made an effort to be healthy, eat right, work out consistently since i was a teenager. Much of the rising healthcare costs are going to be contributed to the rising obesity rates in America, and all of the health problems that come along with this. So should we force mandatory exercise also? or am i gonna have to pay for some guy to be a fatass? (joke btw).

The second my money is going for everyone's healthcare, doesn't that mean i have a say in how they manage their health?
 

Jonm1010

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
What happens if we go UHC and it goes tits up like Social Security? Who gets to undo that mess? Oh right...nobody, we can just raise taxes to fix that.

You really, really need to watch that show, i can see with statements like this that you havent done the proper research to understand just how messed up our system is and how much better, more affordable, UHC is. And you keep operating under this assumption that all UHC systems are some socialized, government controls everything enterprise. Just look at Japan or Germany. Really even if you dont want to watch it right now, go look around the analysis page, especially the "is UHC socialized medicine?" question answered by the German physician.

but the better question is why do you want to follow Switzerland and deregulate things even more and have your economy almost crumble before you realize that the benefits of a proper UHC system is better than letting corporations do it unregulated?
 

Fatalah

Member
Tamanon said:
Yah, saw it on kos, most surprising thing I found from when he posted it was that kos also used to be a Republican.:lol

And an Army man! This image should be cemented into dailykos.com's front page.

140px-Moulitsas-army.jpg


"B..but he's un-patriotic!"
 
At this point, I kinda think it is almost pointless to talk about healthcare. There are so many other problems and such a fiscal nightmare, that any significant healthcare system changes will probably be put on the back burner.

We need to get a lot of basics done first. End the hemorrhaging of $10 billion+/month known as the Iraq war, try to establish some sanity down at wall street, reduce the amount of deficit spending, etc. We've got a category 5 shitstorm going on . . . triage now, healthcare later.
 
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