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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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gcubed

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
Yeah, I'll get right on that. Let me see if I can take some more of my time and money (that isn't going to taxes), take some time off of work and time away from my family to do what our educational system used to be able to do.

The problem is that every election, the stupidity in this country becomes more self-evident in the short-term before an election. Any efforts to educate these people are dismissed by the pundits on the opposing sides as catering and whatnot thus cheapening their effectiveness which results in the rallying of the morons behind their respective flags. Then after the election, a good percentage of people are depressed while a lot of the idiots pile onto each other in the proverbial end zone (leaving their Bush-Cheny '04 stickers on their cars for 2 years after the election) before resuming their previous posture of just going through life, visiting Wal-mart 1.3 times a week, stopping by church, watching a football game, eating some fast food, watching a lot of television, and yelling at our teachers because they aren't spending enough time with their precious kids.

Its still the peoples responsibility, not the governments. Its not easy, but suppressing votes on stupidity is... stupid.

So, people are okay with going back to the way we lived before the revolutionary war? Yeah the whole taxation without representation thing worked wonders 350 years ago.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
I usually don't like posting opinionated pieces from blogs, but since Trump enorsed McCain and the whole "cutting taxes creates jobs" myth.......

http://rigmastft.blogspot.com/2008/07/debunking-mccains-myth-that-tax-cuts.html

Anyone help me out on finding Paul Krugman's article that the author of this article uses for a source? :D

It seems so obvious that it's not even worth mentioning, but the only thing that can generate jobs is innovation (in technology, manufacturing, some new product, etc) leading to new investment opportunities. Without investment opportunities, even with more money, an individual or a company is not likely to spend more or invest more and create more jobs.
 

Fatalah

Member
I haven't fully checked our thread yet this morning but Matt Drudge has really been pulling at straws for about a month now, scraping the bottom of the barrel for any story he can misconstrue.

Why does a video of Josh Howard disrespecting the national anthem make Drudgereport's front page? It's easy---"Josh Howard is black, just like Obama!". In the video, Howard repeats Obama's name a few times after he proclaims he doesn't need to respect the anthem "because I'm black".

But that's Josh Howard, that's not Barack Obama.

"DrudgeReport- Helping racism in this country survive another day.'
 

Rur0ni

Member
Rasmussen 09/18/2008

McCain 48
Obama 48

Obama's very unfavorable trending down somewhat, McCain's very unfavorable solidly trending up. Rasmussen now tied suckas.

New state polling data will be released today at noon, 3:00 p.m., and 5:00 p.m. Eastern.
 

Loudninja

Member
Rur0ni said:
Rasmussen 09/18/2008

McCain 48
Obama 48

Obama's very unfavorable trending down somewhat, McCain's very unfavorable solidly trending up. Rasmussen now tied suckas.

New state polling data will be released today at noon, 3:00 p.m., and 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Hey, what was the poll like yesterday?
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
gcubed said:
Its still the peoples responsibility, not the governments. Its not easy, but suppressing votes on stupidity is... stupid.

So, people are okay with going back to the way we lived before the revolutionary war? Yeah the whole taxation without representation thing worked wonders 350 years ago.
Responsibility is the key word. Parents are not being parents and they are spending their time distracted (either willingly or unwillingly) and not taking the time to be inquisitive about their own education let alone their kid's. Government, as I see it, is currently running with a taxation with misrepresentation policy. For example, the current administration wants to give the Republic of Georgia 10 Billion dollars in aid. This money would do wonders for own infrastructure here in the US. McCain wants to leave the current tax breaks in place for the wealthiest of Americans while I, as a member of the middle class, have seen very little in relief while my fuel and food costs have skyrocketed. However, my family educated itself as best it could and stayed away from offers of big loans to buy a big house we didn't need while so many of our friends did. Now, they are having a tough time paying their bills, but they live in the wealthier neighborhoods, and they are voting for McCain because their "friends" say that McCain will protect their investments while Obama will raise their taxes. This kind of stupidity just makes my head spin. They were too dumb to see what they were doing when they bought the house and now they are too dumb now to realize that the policies of the Bush administration that removed most if not all regulations that oversee the greed that was permeating Wall Street and Main Street are the very same policies that McCain endorses and yet, they support him because their wealthy friends are.
 

Barrett2

Member
Amazingly, even Republican hack Glenn Beck isn't trying to pin the financial meltdown on the Dems. His CNN column blames Wall St. itself.

It is truly a mystifying day when even right wing radio blowhards can't find a reason to blame America's problems on libruls.
 

Rur0ni

Member
rancor said:
I think Rasmussen is a crap pollster. Everyone else has Obama up +4 and +5 and where is he?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/pollster ratings

Ranks fairly high.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ate_actual_results_vs_rasmussen_reports_polls

2004 History.

Edit:

Lemonz said:

Both are old. :p The CBS being the older of the two.
 
lawblob said:
Amazingly, even Republican hack Glenn Beck isn't trying to pin the financial meltdown on the Dems. His CNN column blames Wall St. itself.

It is truly a mystifying day when even right wing radio blowhards can't find a reason to blame America's problems on libruls.
Well, I think you can only go so far with entrenched narratives that fit the current situation. Since most agree that the problem was a result of a lack of regulation, it's kind of difficult to pin this, in any sensible fashion, on "those liberals and their love of the unencumbered free market! Oh wait, that's us..."
 
lawblob said:
Amazingly, even Republican hack Glenn Beck isn't trying to pin the financial meltdown on the Dems. His CNN column blames Wall St. itself.

It is truly a mystifying day when even right wing radio blowhards can't find a reason to blame America's problems on libruls.


Glen Beck isn't a Republican! He says so every show!!
 

FightyF

Banned
Charron said:
Oh I'm not saying she's not stupid. Just that there's more going on than raw stupid.

Oh I see.

I went to McCainSpace and saw some more stupidity. It's all over the freaking place!

Now, come debate time, I'm wondering how much of it will be actual debating of the issues, rather than attack from Republicans, and defense from Democrats. I gotta re-watch the 2004 debates and see how they went...
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Fatalah said:
I haven't fully checked our thread yet this morning but Matt Drudge has really been pulling at straws for about a month now, scraping the bottom of the barrel for any story he can misconstrue.

Why does a video of Josh Howard disrespecting the national anthem make Drudgereport's front page? It's easy---"Josh Howard is black, just like Obama!". In the video, Howard repeats Obama's name a few times after he proclaims he doesn't need to respect the anthem "because I'm black".

But that's Josh Howard, that's not Barack Obama.

"DrudgeReport- Helping racism in this country survive another day.'


"OBAMA TELLS SUPPORTERS: 'ARGUE AND GET IN THEIR FACE'"

He's so shameless.
 

bill0527

Member
CharlieDigital said:
It seems so obvious that it's not even worth mentioning, but the only thing that can generate jobs is innovation (in technology, manufacturing, some new product, etc) leading to new investment opportunities. Without investment opportunities, even with more money, an individual or a company is not likely to spend more or invest more and create more jobs.

I totally agree with you.

Higher taxes = less innovation = less investment = less jobs = more money to the government to recklessly spend.
 

rancor

Neo Member
Fragamemnon said:
Ras isn't a bad pollster per se, he's just running with a completely unrealistic LV screen in terms of partisan breakdown.

That's precisely the problem with their poll. Really, with 11% more dems than republicans and with greater enthusiasm on the dem side, the partisan methodology used by rasmussen doesn't make any sense really.
 
PantherLotus said:
Oh yeah, bitches? I'm actually volunteering for the Obama Campaign on Friday.

Are you going to the Missouri side? My weekends are busy now for a couple more weeks, but as soon as Roller Derby tournament season is over, I'm going to start doing whatever they need me to do, and if I can do so over in the 816 (that's MO, you guys), I will. KS won't be flipping blue no matter what, after all.
 

Odrion

Banned
Okay I don't want to be a dick but I highly doubt Obama's current tax plan is actually going to be the one he 'll use in office, and I'm pretty sure that's why we haven't been seeing it mention all that much.
Stoney Mason said:
Glen Beck isn't a Republican! He says so every show!!
Glen Beck is a terrible human but his show doesn't have that much viewers.
 

gcubed

Member
Odrion said:
Okay I don't want to be a dick but I highly doubt Obama's current tax plan is actually going to be the one he 'll use in office, and I'm pretty sure that's why we haven't been seeing it mention all that much.

been discussed already, basically all previous tax plans are most likely garbage due to recent events.
 
bill0527 said:
I totally agree with you.

Higher taxes = less innovation = less investment = less jobs = more money to the government to recklessly spend.

I think you've got your formula wrong.

Research from public and private universities with funds from the government is one of the places where a shitload of innovation comes from. Everything from technology, agriculture, medicine, etc. Many techniques, technologies, advancements are made in the research facilities of academia with the assistance of public research grants. Ultimately, these innovations and discoveries are commercialized and drive industries to grow, change, and prosper.

Thus, more than anything, I think education (from K-graduate school) is the driver for growth. More than anything, we should place a greater emphasis on government spending in education of all levels.

Innovation doesn't just pop out of thin air. It doesn't just happen because a company or a wealthy individual now has more money. It happens by fostering education and a love of learning. It happens by government investing in science and technology programs (take NASA or the Hubble telescope). It happens by ensuring that bright minds have the opportunity to develop through our education systems.

Aside from that, you've missed the point: lower taxes do not generate job growth because the two are very loosely related. Ultimately, even with more cash, individuals and businesses will not just hire more people for the sake of hiring more people. They will do so when the business has reason to expand and there are growth areas to invest in.

So I'm not sure your equation makes any sense whatsoever given that we've had much lower taxes under Bush than Clinton, but we saw much more job and economic growth under Clinton than Bush.
 

mclem

Member
Xisiqomelir said:
Dem300EVodds.jpg


That's a siiiiick bet.

Wager:payout

500:730
1000:1465
3000:4400

TheKingsCrown said:
Alright. I finally put my money where my mouth is. $50 donated as of today.

Seeing these in close proximity gave me a revelation. I KNOW WHAT MCCAIN IS UP TO!

All his donations are being fed into Intrade for an Obama victory. He then goes out on the stump, lying, cheating and being generally insane... landslide for Obama in November, he takes home a packet, and doesn't have to worry about the failing economy!

Credit where it's due, that's genius.
 
GhaleonEB quoting Washington Post said:
More than 500,000 have registered in Indiana since the beginning of the year
WOW. That's like 8% of the state's total population. I don't know what percent of the whole it'd be if we excluded the sub-18 crowd.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
bill0527 said:
I totally agree with you.

Higher taxes = less innovation = less investment = less jobs = more money to the government to recklessly spend.

Wait wait... let me try.

Straw man = faulty syllogism = bad argument = bad conclusion.

Do I win something?
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-fiderer/the-simple-arithmetic-of_b_124510.html

The Simple Arithmetic of Employment: Job Growth Is Always Higher When a Democrat Is In The White House

"For the eighth consecutive month, the nation's employers shed jobs, 84,000 last month, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday." The New York Times, September 6, 2008

"As President, I will enact a Jobs for America economic plan that creates jobs." John McCain, September 5, 2008

Remember the last time the number of jobs grew more rapidly under an Republican president? John McCain can't. Because he wasn't born yet. Over the past 75 years, one trend has held constant. Rapid job growth only occurs when there's a Democrat in The White House.

No Republican President -- not Eisenhower, not Nixon, not Reagan, not Bush -- has ever created more jobs, or created jobs at a faster rate, than his Democratic predecessor. It's not even close. The contrast has been especially stark over the past 16 years, when 23.1 million jobs were created under Clinton and less than 5 million were created under Bush. On average, job growth under Democrats is more than twice that under Republicans.

Whatever benchmark you use, the difference is dramatic. Since Truman was elected in 1948, 53.2 million new jobs were created during the 24 years when Democrats held The White House, and 38.3 million were created during the 36 years of Republican administrations. Check it out for yourself:

Millions of Jobs Added

Truman 1949 -1952 5.2
Eisenhower 1953 - 1956 2.7
Eisenhower 1957 - 1960 0.8
Kennedy/Johnson 1961 - 1964 5.7
Johnson 1965 - 1968 9.8
Nixon 1969 - 1972 6.1
Nixon/Ford 1972 - 1976 5.2
Carter 1977 - 1980 10.4
Reagan 1981 - 1984 5.2
Reagan 1985 - 1988 10.8
Bush 1989 - 1992 2.5
Clinton 1993 - 1996 11.6
Clinton 1997 - 2000 11.5
Bush 2001 - 2004 (0.1)
Bush 2005 - 2008 5.1


Of course, business cycles aren't timed to coincide with presidential inaugurals. But after 60 years it's hard to argue that the Democratic presidents are just lucky.

Republicans consistently dwell on the outlier of the trend, Reagan's second four-year term, when jobs grew at a robust rate of 2.7 million a year. But that four-year spurt is balanced out by the anemic rate of job expansion during Reagan's first term and during the first Bush Administration. As the financial experts always say, you should never lose sight of the big picture and always think about the long term.

One final point. You also have to wonder if John McCain ever seriously focused on job growth. Since his grandfather owned an oil company, his family seems to have been unaffected by the Great Depression.

Source: The Bureau of Labor Statistics, seasonally adjusted non-farm payrolls. [Job increases for G.W. Bush are through August 2008. Most economists expect more job losses before the end of this year.]

WHAT WHAS THAT BILLO THE CLOWN? :lol :lol
 

LuCkymoON

Banned
lawblob said:
Amazingly, even Republican hack Glenn Beck isn't trying to pin the financial meltdown on the Dems. His CNN column blames Wall St. itself.

It is truly a mystifying day when even right wing radio blowhards can't find a reason to blame America's problems on libruls.
I'm pretty sure he considers wallstreet libruls. =p
 

Barrett2

Member
PhatSaqs said:
Beck is awful. He spins some crazy shit at times on his show.

Sadly, most of my relatives (Utah Republicans) love Glenn Beck and Michael Savage.

The problem with all right wing talk radio is they deal in this bizarro world where they fetishize 'common sense' and try to extrapolate it to complex global problems.

Got a problem with the Supreme Court? I have a simple solution I can explain via anecdotes in 4 minutes using no technical language! Got a problem with the Gov. monetary policy? I have a simple solution I can explain in 4 minutes with using no technical language! Problem with taxes, regulation, anti-trust laws, morality, religion? I can explain it all in 4 minutes, using layman logic!

It is sad because so many people buy into this crap, which only fuels the anti-intellectual movement in this country even harder. It sickens me... back to Dragon Quest IV...
 

Cloudy

Banned
rancor said:
That's precisely the problem with their poll. Really, with 11% more dems than republicans and with greater enthusiasm on the dem side, the partisan methodology used by rasmussen doesn't make any sense really.

His poll is partnered with Fox News, isn't it? :p
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
bill0527 said:
I totally agree with you.

Higher taxes = less innovation = less investment = less jobs = more money to the government to recklessly spend.
Innovation requires education. Education improves the working force both in innovation and the execution of that innovation into a working solution. A burden on the working families of America reduces the education opportunities, thus reducing the quality of the working force, which results in poor execution of the trickle of innovation. I see it in research EVERY day. There are unqualified individuals, mostly from other countries, that are being paid with NIH funded (i.e. your tax dollars) to do a job that fewer Americans can do. While foreigners do the work, the few that run the companies make the big dollars, and Americans clean up after them at night.
 
Bill's accounting also totally discounts the effect and importance of strong infrastructure in creating new jobs.

A strong Highway and railway system allows goods to move around cheaply, making manufacturing easily. Good communications systems including wireless, and fiber optics allows new innovations in information businesses. Improved parks, clean streets and good police forces help our service jobs and tourism.

And for that matter, raising taxes would have one direct positive effect on our economy, balancing the budget helps strengthen the dollar, helping manufacturing costs, and energy costs.

The "formula" for economic prosperity constantly shifts, and not overburdening with taxation is part of that. The 70's era, "70%" on the rich was overburdening, where Obama's "%35" rate on the rich, ala clinton obviously isn't overburdening.
 
bill0527 said:
Higher taxes = less innovation = less investment = less jobs = more money to the government to recklessly spend.

Q.E.D. by the transitive property of complete bullshit, I suppose. The last huge "burst" of innovation in the American economy happened after a tax increase in 1993, with innovation and investment that was performed in large part by the federal government and scientific institutions with federal grant money.
 
See, guys like bill0527 pretty much make the point that there are portions of the population that are woefully hopeless...

I can totally see where DenogginizerOS is coming from.
 

saelz8

Member
Fatalah said:
I haven't fully checked our thread yet this morning but Matt Drudge has really been pulling at straws for about a month now, scraping the bottom of the barrel for any story he can misconstrue.

Why does a video of Josh Howard disrespecting the national anthem make Drudgereport's front page? It's easy---"Josh Howard is black, just like Obama!". In the video, Howard repeats Obama's name a few times after he proclaims he doesn't need to respect the anthem "because I'm black".

But that's Josh Howard, that's not Barack Obama.

"DrudgeReport- Helping racism in this country survive another day.'
I'm surprised people still read the site, considering he gives no commentary. It's a glorified RSS aggregate, as he gets practically all of his news from other websites. The only value the site has seems to be it's influence, that is, the acknowledgement that his headlines can influence a swathe of people, and not much more than that.

I can get 100 times the news on my own, by using a RSS aggregator. (I realize most people can't be bothered with that!)
 

gcubed

Member
CharlieDigital said:
See, guys like bill0527 pretty much make the point that there are portions of the population that are woefully hopeless...

I can totally see where DenogginizerOS is coming from.

but the USA is the land of opportunity, where the totally hopeless, hopeless and hopeful can live in perfect harmony
 
lawblob said:
Sadly, most of my relatives (Utah Republicans) love Glenn Beck and Michael Savage.

The problem with all right wing talk radio is they deal in this bizarro world where they fetishize 'common sense' and try to extrapolate it to complex global problems.

Got a problem with the Supreme Court? I have a simple solution I can explain via anecdotes in 4 minutes using no technical language! Got a problem with the Gov. monetary policy? I have a simple solution I can explain in 4 minutes with using no technical language! Problem with taxes, regulation, anti-trust laws, morality, religion? I can explain it all in 4 minutes, using layman logic!

It is sad because so many people buy into this crap, which only fuels the anti-intellectual movement in this country even harder. It sickens me... back to Dragon Quest IV...

I fully admit I listen to many of these shows to hear their arguments, or get myself angry if I'm in a sadistic mood for some reason. The only one I can really tolerate is Limbaugh because there is some humour there. He's full of shit but he's like a character and an entertainer.

I fully agree though. Someone else mentioned this prior but the days of the William F Buckey or George Will era of conservative mass thought is over. All these guys approach the problems of our society with a non-analytical, the world is crazy and just do what I say and everything will be fine approach. The audience eats it up because it doesn't involve critical thought and it's easy to just let them make "common sense" arguments and parrot them around.
 
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